Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Will say that one little criticism I have now is the uselessness of so many monsters. You only need three battle monsters at most, for which I've been using the fire, earth, water elementals I've found, a holdover from Tides of Destiny where they were amazing. I don't remember non-Buffamoo/Cluckadoodle/Wooly monsters producing items before, but I do like it that some do in RF5, I just wish more did, given allllllll the monster barn room I get. I don't use monsters for fieldwork, since I like doing that myself and  it doesn't take long.

 

They definitely do in 4, at least. Again, not all, but several certainly do.

I take it you don't use a monster at least as a mount, heh.

[Armagon]

Just found out about the Venezuelan Marvel superhero

Sofia Mantega a.k.a Wind Dancer. A Mutant.

This had me thinking about the general state of Latino representation in American media. I'm sure you can dig deep enough in something as expansive as Marvel but Latino rep generally is either "the character is Mexican" or "the character is Puerto Rican" and that's about it. The map of Latin America might as well be those two countries only (though there was Encanto, that did put Colombia on the map for the average American).

Basically what i'm saying is that i'd like to see more Venezuelan characters, more Colombians, more Peruvians, Guatemalans, Paraguayans, etc.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

To make a living out of videogames... Yeah you basically have to work for Triple A Studio 3000 or take a huge gamble and risk getting nowhere if your game doesn't pick up traction. Sad, but that's the life we live in. It's best to have it as a hobby and make a living somewhere else, not even necessarily the videogame industry.

You don't have to join Triple A Studio 3000. There are smaller studios you can join.

But if you're going full on indie, best keep another job as your main one and focus on your games in the spare time. That Eterknights "i quit my job to make a Persona 5 clone because i love P5 so much" is lucky things seemed to have worked out for him.

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Is this a jab at Xenogears?

He did want to make it as a Final Fantasy game first.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, Armagon said:

This had me thinking about the general state of Latino representation in American media. I'm sure you can dig deep enough in something as expansive as Marvel but Latino rep generally is either "the character is Mexican" or "the character is Puerto Rican" and that's about it. The map of Latin America might as well be those two countries only (though there was Encanto, that did put Colombia on the map for the average American).

Basically what i'm saying is that i'd like to see more Venezuelan characters, more Colombians, more Peruvians, Guatemalans, Paraguayans, etc.

Sadly, this is a case where when it's not the "stock Latino choices", it will instead be Native representation. So if you hope for Peruvian representation, it will more often be Quechua than Hispanic. To give an example. Even we fall on that from time to time. Why use Hispanic Mexican when you can use Nahua or Mayan instead.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I take it you don't use a monster at least as a mount, heh.

I gave it a spin, but it isn't that much faster than walking. And having to talk to the monster every time to get on is an extra step. I'd rather have the fire and earth sprites plus the mermaid tagging along (no wind sprite?), I like the vibe and they're strong enough.

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

They definitely do in 4, at least. Again, not all, but several certainly do.

Of course, I remember monsters being your source of crops and ore in ToD. Not sure if that was the right direction, since it made farming so hands-off and added an oddity to mining. But, I just want something that could qualify as a monster-sink, something that encourage you to load up on a ton of non-producing monsters and give them work that isn't clearing/watering/seeding fields since again, these tasks are real easy and quick. (-Sayeth the person who hasn't been growing very many crops owing to concerns about exhausting the soil.)

 

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

He did want to make it as a Final Fantasy game first.

One little thing he did in FFVI was redesign the Magitek Armor in the game's opening credits (but not the ingame model or official art). Clearly foreshadowing his future inkling for mecha in Xeno. Same game ofc where Soraya Saga created the desert kingdom (with a castle that can burrow into the sand, very mechanical) twin brothers whose middle names would become the first names of Bart's ancestors.

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

This had me thinking about the general state of Latino representation in American media. I'm sure you can dig deep enough in something as expansive as Marvel but Latino rep generally is either "the character is Mexican" or "the character is Puerto Rican" and that's about it. The map of Latin America might as well be those two countries only (though there was Encanto, that did put Colombia on the map for the average American).

I take it it's all because Mexico is the (infamous) southern neighbor, and Puerto Rico belongs to the US. The rest of it are intangible things where Americans have no idea of how to define their distinctiveness? (Although a lack of Brazil, the powerhouse of South America, would still be odd.)

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Interdimensional Observer said:

I take it it's all because Mexico is the (infamous) southern neighbor, and Puerto Rico belongs to the US. The rest of it are intangible things where Americans have no idea of how to define their distinctiveness? (Although a lack of Brazil, the powerhouse of South America, would still be odd.)

There's no need to worry about Brazil. As a non-Hispanic part of Latin America, they don't need to worry of falling into getting lumped into a group. They're the only choice, as it were.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I gave it a spin, but it isn't that much faster than walking. And having to talk to the monster every time to get on is an extra step. I'd rather have the fire and earth sprites plus the mermaid tagging along (no wind sprite?), I like the vibe and they're strong enough.

Hmm, I see. Admittedly, I rarely ride monsters too. Only time I'd bother to do it would be when exploiting Clorica and/or Kiel for money.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Of course, I remember monsters being your source of crops and ore in ToD. Not sure if that was the right direction, since it made farming so hands-off and added an oddity to mining. But, I just want something that could qualify as a monster-sink, something that encourage you to load up on a ton of non-producing monsters and give them work that isn't clearing/watering/seeding fields since again, these tasks are real easy and quick. (-Sayeth the person who hasn't been growing very many crops owing to concerns about exhausting the soil.)

I suppose it's helpful when you have tons of fields, but then with the upgraded tools it also can go quickly enough.

At least, there's a time where I'm thankful to get saved up those minutes of farm work when I need to do something else. There's only enough time in an in-game day, after all.

Worst-case scenario, they serve me as fodder for fanfic stuff, hahaha.

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Sadly, this is a case where when it's not the "stock Latino choices", it will instead be Native representation. So if you hope for Peruvian representation, it will more often be Quechua than Hispanic. To give an example. Even we fall on that from time to time. Why use Hispanic Mexican when you can use Nahua or Mayan instead.

I see. So even when it's a character from a particular country, it's not necessarily that they are Latino, that's what you're saying?

Although, quite a few Latin American countries to begin with have significant indigenous populations. As of 2021, i found this chart where Guatemala and Bolivia tower above the other nations in indigenous populations, with Peru in third place. I don't have statistics but there's probably been noticeable intermingling between Latinos and indigenous. Hell, my great grandmother was indigenous, not that any of her people's traditions survived into the current family unfortunately. Can't even tell you what tribe she belonged to.

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

(Although a lack of Brazil, the powerhouse of South America, would still be odd.)

7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

There's no need to worry about Brazil. As a non-Hispanic part of Latin America, they don't need to worry of falling into getting lumped into a group. They're the only choice, as it were.

Yeah Brazil speaking Portuguese is a big plus for them. Brazil also got shown off a lot in the Rio movie, about the Spix's Macaw, which i think ended up bringing attention to them. I mean, they're still extinct in the wild but it did bring the birds into public conscious for a time.

Venezuela was also the main setting of Up, the whole goal of trying to get the house to Angel Falls. Unlike Rio though, if you didn't know that Angel Falls was in Venezuela, you wouldn't have even realized the movie was taking place there. The lack of civilization didn't help lol.

Also

Laura Matsuda, Brazilian-Japanese character in Street Fighter. That's pretty big.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

I see. So even when it's a character from a particular country, it's not necessarily that they are Latino, that's what you're saying?

Although, quite a few Latin American countries to begin with have significant indigenous populations. As of 2021, i found this chart where Guatemala and Bolivia tower above the other nations in indigenous populations, with Peru in third place. I don't have statistics but there's probably been noticeable intermingling between Latinos and indigenous. Hell, my great grandmother was indigenous, not that any of her people's traditions survived into the current family unfortunately. Can't even tell you what tribe she belonged to.

Yeah, it falls into the whole "lumped together" thing. With so many Hispanic Latin American countries, it's easier to stick to 1-2. This, conversely, gives the opportunities to other groups in the same areas to have more chances of representation, so it's not all negative... but still kinda sucks.

Mhm, that's different management for ya, even if it still was far from perfect. I wouldn't say they tower, since that's just percentages. 43% sounds a lot, but Guatemala has not even 20M population. Meanwhile, Mexico has only 19% but with about 120M people, the net total is much higher than Guatemala's. More than double, even. And yes, intermingling was a lot more common here.

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

At least, there's a time where I'm thankful to get saved up those minutes of farm work when I need to do something else. There's only enough time in an in-game day, after all.

The days in RF5 are too long, so again, it doesn't bother me. If there's anything that needs acceleration, it's brushing. The brush needs upgrades for an AoE effect, since doing these moving critters of upwards to twelve per barn is slooooooow.

Also, just thought of another use for monsters. Instead of going around collecting weeds every day or crafting/buying Greenifer, use monstie 💩 for fertilizer. Sakuna has all fertilizer-making begin by grabbing a bucket and taking a scoop from the outhouse.

Maybe we need a monster vs. monster arena? Not sure how one would effectively integrate that though.

20 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Worst-case scenario, they serve me as fodder for fanfic stuff, hahaha.

Now that's creative, and freed from the gutter that fanficting the human characters too often ends up in.

 

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Laura Matsuda, Brazilian-Japanese character in Street Fighter. That's pretty big.

Brazil does have a notable minority of Japanese descent. Chile or Peru might have a few too? Part of it was pure choice of economic migration, thought I think the United States informally banning Japanese immigrants ("the Gentlemen's Agreement") under TR might've helped shift the Japanese diaspora to South America.

 With regards to video games, there is one Brazilian-Japanese character I'm familiar with.:

Ronaldo Kuriki in Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 2. No real indications besides name and perhaps skin tone of his Brazilian-ness though. -He is also decidedly the one character that gets torn apart by the writing.🤦‍♂️

[Armagon]

8 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, it falls into the whole "lumped together" thing. With so many Hispanic Latin American countries, it's easier to stick to 1-2. This, conversely, gives the opportunities to other groups in the same areas to have more chances of representation, so it's not all negative... but still kinda sucks.

Yeah. Other regions don't seem to get lumped together like that i think. Well.....Asia's so big you basically have to split it to three regions. East Asia generally gets off easy. The prominence of China, Japan and South Korea in media allows the three to co-exist without getting lumped together. Taiwan and Vietnam are kinda left behind unfortunately but they still have it better than Mongolia. And North Korea but that has it's own issues.

Southeast Asia rep is....less impressive. Indonesia, The Philippines, etc. Not much makes it off the top of my head. 

The Middle East isn't even regarded as Asian most of the time. You tell a weeb that Pakistanis are Asians and that fact would deep fry their brains.

As for the rest of the world, Africa is a really weird spot because the African rep in American media is usually specifically about African Americans rather than specific African nationalities, because of the specific history. You know what i'm talking about. The protagonists of the Kane Chronicles are Egyptian, as are most of the supporting cast, but that's about it as far as what comes to mind in terms of characters representing African nationalities. 

Oceana gets fucked over by living in the shadow of the anglosphere (Australia and New Zealand). But indigenous Hawaiians do have Lilo and Stitch.

16 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Mhm, that's different management for ya, even if it still was far from perfect. I wouldn't say they tower, since that's just percentages. 43% sounds a lot, but Guatemala has not even 20M population. Meanwhile, Mexico has only 19% but with about 120M people, the net total is much higher than Guatemala's. More than double, even. And yes, intermingling was a lot more common here.

Fair point. Relatively speaking though, i can see the statistics.

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chile or Peru might have a few too?

Yeah Chile and Peru got them too. I think a ton came over during the Depression.

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ronaldo Kuriki in Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 2. No real indications besides name and perhaps skin tone of his Brazilian-ness though. -He is also decidedly the one character that gets torn apart by the writing.🤦‍♂️

Ronaldo isn't specifically Brazillian in origin i think but you could make the case for him being one.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The Middle East isn't even regarded as Asian most of the time. You tell a weeb that Pakistanis are Asians and that fact would deep fry their brains.

Now tell them Europeans are Asian. Europe is a load of cultural nonsense, it's merely northwest Asia.

Asia is simply too big a continent.

Pakistan might be in simplified American conceptions be "Middle East" b/c bin Laden was hiding there and next to Afghanistan and Muslim. But it really isn't. Afghanistan is Central Eurasia for one, and Pakistan is South Asia. Urdu is the official language of Pakistan and that's a very close relative of Hindi, both descended from Sanskrit, albeit with Persian and Arabic influences on Urdu both in vocabulary and the choice of written characters. The ancient Harappan civilization, which sorta marks the beginnings of South Asian civilization, began in modern Pakistan.

[Acacia Sgt]

I still remember how Gundam The Origin seemingly makes Amuro half-Mexican. At the very least, this version of him lived his childhood in Playas de Rosarito. Like, who cares if it was only living and not actually half-Mexican, but him being in Baja California is so, so...

 

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Maybe we need a monster vs. monster arena? Not sure how one would effectively integrate that though.

There's already a festival for that. At least, 4 has one. Where you can pit a monster team against those of the other villagers.

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Now that's creative, and freed from the gutter that fanficting the human characters too often ends up in.

Admittedly, with the one RF one-shot I made the most I did was just say they exist, pft. Maybe if I were to write another fanfic, I could actually have the monsters show up, hahaha.

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

As for the rest of the world, Africa is a really weird spot because the African rep in American media is usually specifically about African Americans rather than specific African nationalities, because of the specific history. You know what i'm talking about. The protagonists of the Kane Chronicles are Egyptian, as are most of the supporting cast, but that's about it as far as what comes to mind in terms of characters representing African nationalities. 

I feel we're reaching an even weirder spot. Wasn't there some controversy earlier in the year because a Netflix series or documentary portrayed Cleopatra with a black actress? I know I read it up somewhere...

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Oceana gets fucked over by living in the shadow of the anglosphere (Australia and New Zealand). But indigenous Hawaiians do have Lilo and Stitch.

For its worth, they have Moana.

Even within Oceana I feel Polynesians have got it better than Micronesians and Melanesians.

[Acacia Sgt]

Hmm, but you know, writing a RF fanfic where it's the monsters who are the main characters does sound like the kind of thing that would draw my attention to make one. I do tend to gravitate to odd/weird/unusual ideas, as it were.

[Armagon]

12 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Now tell them Europeans are Asian. Europe is a load of cultural nonsense, it's merely northwest Asia.

So that's why so many Isekai protags just end up in Britain.

Although now that i say that

The Spy Master was played by Sacha Dhawan, a British-Indian and the first non-white actor to play The Master (and yes this is the one that does the Rasputin dance). And i guess on that note, Indians do seemingly get decent rep in Western representation. I can't believe i forgot to mention it when talking about Southeast Asia. Although i guess it's just South Asia huh.

On a similar note, with Ncuti Gatwa playing the 15th Doctor and directly incorporating Rwandan into an aspect of the character (the saying on the Sonic Screwdriver's design), there's another example of African nationality coming into play. We're looking at British media here, not American, but Doctor Who is like the UK's most known show of all time. Not that either actor is necessarily representing Indians or Rwandans with their character but i'm sure it's nice to see anyways.

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Wasn't there some controversy earlier in the year because a Netflix series or documentary portrayed Cleopatra with a black actress? I know I read it up somewhere...

What happened was it was a documentary. As in, pretending to be fact. And Cleopatra uh....wasn't black.

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

For its worth, they have Moana.

True true. Moana slipped my mind.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Armagon

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I feel we're reaching an even weirder spot. Wasn't there some controversy earlier in the year because a Netflix series or documentary portrayed Cleopatra with a black actress? I know I read it up somewhere...

Claiming the Egyptians as Sub-Saharan "black" is historically flawed in itself. But it's especially true of Cleopatra, given she was Greek-Macedonian. I've heard the Ptolemies treated native Egyptians as second-class citizens, despite whatever lip service (and incest) they paid to Egyptian traditions, giving political power to the elite Greek minority instead. I think the Cleopatra was the only one in her dynasty to actually learn the Egyptian language. She was part of the colonizers, not exactly what pan-Africanists would want I'd think.

But, Egypt is in Africa. Cleopatra is extremely well-known, better than any historical Sub-Saharan figure male or female. So I get why those with plenty of African pride would want to adopt her as their own.

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Hmm, but you know, writing a RF fanfic where it's the monsters who are the main characters does sound like the kind of thing that would draw my attention to make one. I do tend to gravitate to odd/weird/unusual ideas, as it were.

I demand a mini-golem make a prominent appearance.😛

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

So that's why so many Isekai protags just end up in Britain.

"Group of islands just off the coast of the mainland"

What am I describing: Japan or Great Britain?

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

What happened was it was a documentary. As in, pretending to be fact. And Cleopatra uh....wasn't black.

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Claiming the Egyptians as Sub-Saharan "black" is historically flawed in itself. But it's especially true of Cleopatra, given she was Greek-Macedonian. I've heard the Ptolemies treated native Egyptians as second-class citizens, despite whatever lip service (and incest) they paid to Egyptian traditions, giving political power to the elite Greek minority instead. I think the Cleopatra was the only one in her dynasty to actually learn the Egyptian language. She was part of the colonizers, not exactly what pan-Africanists would want I'd think.

But, Egypt is in Africa. Cleopatra is extremely well-known, better than any historical Sub-Saharan figure male or female. So I get why those with plenty of African pride would want to adopt her as their own.

Yeah, it's what I'm getting at. Putting Africa as being uniformly the same seems to be a possible rising trend. And yeah, it's worse with Cleopatra since her ancestry is Greek.

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I demand a mini-golem make a prominent appearance.😛

Well, we'll see, heh. Though right now any RF idea I may have is gonna be shelved for a long time.

This reminds me, this wouldn't be the first time I'd ponder about "mon" fics. Long before I once thought on writing a Pokémon fanfic but taking place in the Mystery Dungeon world. So no humans, just Pokémon (well, barring the obligatory human-turned-Pokémon since it was centered on Rescue Team).

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

And i guess on that note, Indians do seemingly get decent rep in Western representation. I can't believe i forgot to mention it when talking about Southeast Asia. Although i guess it's just South Asia huh

South Asia was the crown jewel in the British Empire, plenty of immigration from there to Britain and elsewhere too. India is currently the most populous country on the planet, with a very distinctive culture that's the birthplace of four religions, and a strong Muslim presence too. South Asia has a lot going for it. (Not so much Nepal or Bhutan, but the former is Everest Country, that's something. The latter little country has intentionally tried to strictly control in the inflow of modernity.)

Southeast Asia, oh what a shame that for Americans it's just the place of the Vietnam War. Albeit I don't know that much more, other than it being the center of Theravada Buddhism, plus Angkor Wat and the Khmer Empire that built said grand temple.

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

We're looking at British media here, not American, but Doctor Who is like the UK's most known show of all time. Not that either actor is necessarily representing Indians or Rwandans with their character but i'm sure it's nice to see anyways.

True. Just getting diverse people on the screen in good roles is better than nothing, it opens the door to the possibility of fuller representation later down the line.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

South Asia was the crown jewel in the British Empire, plenty of immigration from there to Britain and elsewhere too. India is currently the most populous country on the planet, with a very distinctive culture that's the birthplace of four religions, and a strong Muslim presence too. South Asia has a lot going for it. (Not so much Nepal or Bhutan, but the former is Everest Country, that's something. The latter little country has intentionally tried to strictly control in the inflow of modernity.)

For how diverse India actually is, you can make the argument that it also falls under the problem of "only 1-2 things get represented, the rest tends to be glossed over".

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Southeast Asia, oh what a shame that for Americans it's just the place of the Vietnam War. Albeit I don't know that much more, other than it being the center of Theravada Buddhism, plus Angkor Wat and the Khmer Empire that built said grand temple.

Well, Golden Sun at least taught me about Ayyutthaya and Champasack. Then I saw them again in Victoria 2, hahaha.

[Acacia Sgt]

Wait, I think it was more in a Victoria 2 mod. Since neither actually exist on the map by the time the game begins. Though I think the base game had at last one of them as releasable cores. Mods definitely add them, however.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

For how diverse India actually is, you can make the argument that it also falls under the problem of "only 1-2 things get represented, the rest tends to be glossed over".

Not untrue, even though I'm not exactly well-informed about the differences within India to this day.😅

7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, Golden Sun at least taught me about Ayyutthaya and Champasack. Then I saw them again in Victoria 2, hahaha.

I never recognized that in GS. This said, it show up as a City-State in Civ6, with the following bio description.:

Spoiler

As the Khmer Empire declined in the 14th century, the lands that it dominated started to assert themselves. In the Chao Phraya valley, in modern-day Thailand, a series of Theravada Buddhist city-states called “mueang,” populated by Thai-speaking and Lao-speaking peoples, began to split off from the Khmer, asserting their own linguistic and cultural independence while retaining the religion, royal traditions, and many other cultural and legal features of the Khmer. Mueang were “mandala states,” kingdoms without defined borders but centered on a city that stressed beauty, artistic achievements, and cosmopolitan outlook – think of countries in that time not as the bounded puzzle pieces we see on a map today (or the bordered civilizations in your current game), but as magnets, drawing in people and power from the landscape. Power and profits came via royal monopolies on certain goods – especially porcelain or incense (the name of Vientiane, a Lao “mueang” from the same time, means “city of sandalwood”).

Once the mueang were free of the Khmer, they made war on each other. And, through the course of the 14th and 15th centuries, one became dominant. Ayutthaya, named after the city in the Hindu epic Ramayana [Ramakien, in Thai], became first the center of the Chao Phraya river plain, and, later, a significant power in mainland Southeast Asia, one that European travelers compared with India and China. In the course of its rise, Ayutthaya struggled diplomatically and militarily with its neighbors, especially the Burmese, who conquered Ayutthaya in the 1500s, but were rebuffed by the ambitious warrior-king Naresuan. Ayutthaya could also be the aggressor: at its height, Cambodia, parts of Malaysia, and Laos were controlled by the kings of Ayutthaya.

The city flourished in the 1600s, and the kingdom was called by some travelers a name we might find more familiar – Siam (itself derived from a Khmer word, or possibly a Chinese term). The kings of Ayutthaya were curious about the world and open to it, and employed Japanese, Arab, and European councilors to help them navigate the tricky realm of international diplomacy. The city itself, situated on an island in the middle of the Chao Phraya river, was large for the time, with about a quarter million residents, and had a cosmopolitan, polyglot nature – communities of Japanese, Chinese, and Europeans were established in the city and mingled with the locals. Gender roles, too, were relatively progressive in comparison with East Asia, South Asia, or Europe. One Chinese traveler remarked that “it is [Siamese] custom that all affairs are managed by their wives,” and Alexander Hamilton noted that the “Women in Siam are the only Merchants in buying Goods.”

Ayutthaya did not decline; it crashed. Specifically, it crashed against the Burmese army, yet again. In 1767, the Burmese sacked Ayutthaya and destroyed it, carrying off the gold of its temples, many of its skilled artisans, and putting most of the city to the torch. Siam reformed some years later further south, in a city called (in part) Krung Thep, a city known to foreigners as Bangkok. Today, Siam – Thailand - remains the only country in the region not to be formally colonized by a European power.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never recognized that in GS.

Well, the reference was only in Dark Dawn, with the Kingdom of Ayuthay.

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This said, it show up as a City-State in Civ6, with the following bio description.:

Interesting.

[ping]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

This had me thinking about the general state of Latino representation in American media. I'm sure you can dig deep enough in something as expansive as Marvel but Latino rep generally is either "the character is Mexican" or "the character is Puerto Rican" and that's about it. The map of Latin America might as well be those two countries only (though there was Encanto, that did put Colombia on the map for the average American).

Basically what i'm saying is that i'd like to see more Venezuelan characters, more Colombians, more Peruvians, Guatemalans, Paraguayans, etc.

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Sadly, this is a case where when it's not the "stock Latino choices", it will instead be Native representation. So if you hope for Peruvian representation, it will more often be Quechua than Hispanic. To give an example. Even we fall on that from time to time. Why use Hispanic Mexican when you can use Nahua or Mayan instead.

An excuse to ramble about Civilization, you say?!

Unless I'm pulling a blank, I think the first non-native LatAm civ in the series was Brazil in the fifth game of the series. Now, in Civ6, that number has been doubled (wow!), although Armagon might be happy to hear that the second LatAm entry is Gran Columbia led by Simón Bolívar. It's only the third non-US, non-native American civ, though, as Canada was added to Civ6 before Gran Columbia was.

The big omission here is Mexico, of course, with a main cause probably being the Aztecs and (since Civ3) the Mayans being permanent residents in Civ Town, representing Central America. I'd very much be against throwing either of those out, but c'mon, would it really be such a big deal to have three "Mexican" civs when they're very much distinct from one another?

Funnily enough, Mexico shares a fate with Italy, which apparently counts as exhaustively represented by the Roman Empire, even though I'm told that the Romans kiiinda outgrew the home peninsula during their reign.

[Acacia Sgt]

21 minutes ago, ping said:

An excuse to ramble about Civilization, you say?!

Unless I'm pulling a blank, I think the first non-native LatAm civ in the series was Brazil in the fifth game of the series. Now, in Civ6, that number has been doubled (wow!), although Armagon might be happy to hear that the second LatAm entry is Gran Columbia led by Simón Bolívar. It's only the third non-US, non-native American civ, though, as Canada was added to Civ6 before Gran Columbia was.

The big omission here is Mexico, of course, with a main cause probably being the Aztecs and (since Civ3) the Mayans being permanent residents in Civ Town, representing Central America. I'd very much be against throwing either of those out, but c'mon, would it really be such a big deal to have three "Mexican" civs when they're very much distinct from one another?

Funnily enough, Mexico shares a fate with Italy, which apparently counts as exhaustively represented by the Roman Empire, even though I'm told that the Romans kiiinda outgrew the home peninsula during their reign.

You know, this reminds me. I once had a talk with someone about a hypothetical Mexico Civ. Don't remember much details, though.

And that is a good example of what I was talking about. Due to having Aztecs and Mayans, Mexico feels redundant. So what do you use then if you want to use a Hispanic Latin American Civ? Cue Gran ColOmbia's time to shine.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[ping]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I once had a talk with someone about a hypothetical Mexico Civ.

Hey now, don't be so hard on yourselves. I'm sure there's something resembling civilisation in Mexico.

I don't really know enough about Mexican history to even say who I would consider as potential leaders - although if we followed Sid's example from Civ1, where he generally went with "the guy you'd first think of when hearing {nation}", it most likely would be Pancho Villa.

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

And that is a good example of what I was talking about. Due to having Aztecs and Mayans, Mexico feels redundant. So what do you use then if you want to use a Hispanic Latin American Civ? Cue Gran ColOmbia's time to shine.

It even fits geographically, neatly fitted between the Mayans in the north and the Incans and Brazilians in the south.

31 minutes ago, ping said:

Funnily enough, Mexico shares a fate with Italy, which apparently counts as exhaustively represented by the Roman Empire, even though I'm told that the Romans kiiinda outgrew the home peninsula during their reign.

(small correction: While there's still no "Italy" civ in the series, Civ5 did have Venice)

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, ping said:

Hey now, don't be so hard on yourselves. I'm sure there's something resembling civilisation in Mexico.

I don't really know enough about Mexican history to even say who I would consider as potential leaders - although if we followed Sid's example from Civ1, where he generally went with "the guy you'd first think of when hearing {nation}", it most likely would be Pancho Villa.

Hmm, not my first choice, as it were.

Juarez, Santa Anna, Porfirio Diaz... heck, even Emperor Maximilian could work.