Codename Shrimp Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, Armagon said: Nah. Not to that extent. Let's not kid ourselves Only those ignoring it still happening are kidding themselves 7 minutes ago, Armagon said: Yeah and he got fired for it Only because he was unprofessional and admitted what many others have been doing - heck, his case is one of the less wild ones - much worse people deserve to be fired over what they do in that industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Only those ignoring it still happening are kidding themselves Blackwashing the Asian character within the same material has not happened in years. 6 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Only because he was unprofessional and admitted what many others have been doing The dub he was trashing wasn't even gonna be released in the first place. It wasn't the final cut. And i'm def gonna need the citation on that "many others" 15 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: much worse people deserve to be fired over what they do in that industry. and this is the hyperbole. The idea that "localizers are evil" has no real basis in reality. Are some unprofessional? Sure. But it's a big industry. Normal people don't really care too much. Likewise, there's also fan-translators who think they're better than professionals. All of them? No, not really. But they exist. The problem with localization discussion and what's good and what isn't is that there's too many bad faith arguments. Yes bad locs can exist but let's focus on the ones that are actually bad/contain bad elements and not the ones outing the fact you don't know what metaphors are (you as in them, not you Shrimpy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest (Ch.19) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Armagon said: Blackwashing the Asian character within the same material has not happened in years Yh they change sexuality instead Happened 30 years ago, still happens nowadays - just the other way around 29 minutes ago, Armagon said: The dub he was trashing wasn't even gonna be released in the first place That's why it's one of the less wild cases Alot of trash stuff get's released to the wild 29 minutes ago, Armagon said: Are some unprofessional? Sure. And those some still retain their jobs despite being, at best, incompetent, and at worst, outright malicious 29 minutes ago, Armagon said: is that there's too many bad faith arguments. And it's not one sided, but one side actually holds power here and they answer legit criticism with hate and political virtue signaling. They aren't on equal grounds. Maybe if fan criticism was met with legit responses and desire to improve instead of showing fans the metaphorical middle finger it would've never gotten that bad. Yeah fans aren't angels but the blame mostly lies on how localizations have been handled since like.. forever 29 minutes ago, Armagon said: Yes bad locs can exist but let's focus on the ones that are actually bad/contain bad elements and not the ones outing the fact you don't know what metaphors are (you as in them, not you Shrimpy). Yes And i think i made it pretty clear which ones i am talking about - and not something even most of those who complain about locs will laugh at (like UO). Like, you can't for example suddenly say Fates loc complaints are invalid because some idiots are complaining about UO. Edited February 27 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Consider how there are people out there who get extremely invested in arguing about Spanish dubs vs Latin American dubs. I'd say this is a human phenomenon. That's absolutely truth, I see a bunch of anime/manga translated to portuguese (my original language) and there's a crazy amount of people who dislike it when they dub or sub it in a way that is not 1:1, so much that a ridiculous amount of brazilian fansubs/fan translations have the characters say things such as "joe-kun" or "joe-oneesan" instead of just "joe" or (or instead of something like "mr joe", if the situation calls for it) or even not translating at all when a character uses "oneesan" for an older person that is not their sibling --or worse, translating it as "older brother"-- while we have a term in portuguese that has the exact same meaning and is used in the exact same situations: uncle (but in portuguese), people freaking out when they translate stuff such as "tadaima" or "itadakimasu" to "I'm home" or "let's eat", etc. I don't mind it when they leave it as 1:1 in some very speficic situations, for example, there's a manga I read that is about characters that live in japan, in real the real world, so they don't translate stuff such as "tadaima"/"kun/san/sempai" or whatever (but sometimes put translation notes to the more obscure ones) and it doesn't feel weird cause you know it's mostly to give cultural context (specially cause they casually mention stuff that mostly only a japanese person would know such as specific small city names, tv shows and songs, very specific food or sauce names, etc), but in a BUNCH of places they go overboard with not translating stuff or translating 1:1 and it feels cringey (y'know, stuff such as "all acording to the keikaku"). Both official transaltions and fan translations do stuf flike that, I always found it bizarre how in Fullmetal Alchemist's english translation, Alfonse calls his brother by "brother." all the time, in japanese it works, but who tf calls their brother by "brother" (when talking to him) in english?! Not even "bro" or something... In the official portuguese translation they made Alfonse call Edward by "Ed" which is absolutely not what he says in japanese, but it's what works. I wonder how these people that like things to be translated 1:1 would like to play something like Ace Attorney, imagine if they had to put a translation note for each pun and each character name's pun, or how any joke with a pun would work? The official translation is obvioisly not 1:1 but it's extremely well done (only weird thing was switching Maya's favorite food from ramen to hamburgers, cause then it comes back and becomes a bit important... But they couldn't have known it back in game 1). I mean, I'm curious how the puns work in japanese, but it looks ridiculous to play the game while reading translations notes everytime someone cracks a joke or a new character appears, I think that 1:1 fantranslations have some value for killing this curiosity but it's something that would obviously look horrible in an official thing. In the end I agree it's just a human phenomenom argue over which is better, looks like most people have a strong preference for one side over the other. 2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: We may each have our opinions on this topic and others, but I want you to always remember this objective truth: What? where is this from? Don't tell me they put this in into a fantranslation?! Also, I took a disgusting amount of time to realize Ash Ketchum's name was supposed to allude to "Catch'em", I mean I didn't find out RIGHT NOW, it was some months ago, but still... As someone that likes Pokemon a lot, it's a bit embarrasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Ok but imagine the memespace without all according to Keikaku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 10 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Yh they change sexuality instead Besides that one manga, imma need to see more cases of this tbh. 11 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Maybe if fan criticism was met with legit responses and desire to improve instead of showing fans the metaphorical middle finger it would've never gotten that bad. The problem is not every fan criticism is met in good faith. And sometimes fan criticism and "what the fans want" is actually worse. Not just for locs but for anything. We let Reddit write The Rise of Skywalker and look how that turned out. 12 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Like, you can't for example suddenly say Fates loc complaints are invalid because some idiots are complaining about UO. I think locs like Fates' are the ones people should focus on. Even if the Beruka/Saizo C-Support change is ironically really funny. Despite everything Fates did not change Forrest's gender tho. 1 minute ago, ARMADS!!! said: That's absolutely truth, I see a bunch of anime/manga translated to portuguese (my original language) and there's a crazy amount of people who dislike it when they dub or sub it in a way that is not 1:1 I'm curious, it was brought up for Spanish but is there discourse between Brazilian Portuguese dubs and Original Portuguese like how it is with Spanish? 4 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said: only weird thing was switching Maya's favorite food from ramen to hamburgers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said: What? where is this from? Don't tell me they put this in into a fantranslation?! Gahahaha, nah, nah. That's a little bit from a hack I've recently started making. Just thought I'd throw a bit of levity in there. 8 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said: wonder how these people that like things to be translated 1:1 would like to play something like Ace Attorney, imagine if they had to put a translation note for each pun and each character name's pun, or how any joke with a pun would work? The official translation is obvioisly not 1:1 but it's extremely well done (only weird thing was switching Maya's favorite food from ramen to hamburgers, cause then it comes back and becomes a bit important... But they couldn't have known it back in game 1). I do feel trying to set Ace Attorney in the US (heck wasn't it just for the benefit of the one timezone puzzle at the very start of the first game?) was pretty reckless. It's not like they didn't know about the increasingly more Japanese setting - by the time the games were localized on the DS, the entire original trilogy already existed! Still, it leads to some fun dumbassery. But sheesh, Ace Attorney localizations were all over the place. Remember the one typo in Justice For All's bad ending? Klavier becoming German for absolutely no reason? Benjamin Hunter? Okay, Benjamin Hunter's the French version but I just wanted to bring that up. They really did take Edgeworth and called him Benjamin motherfucking Hunter. That's glorious. 2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Ok but imagine the memespace without all according to Keikaku This is true. 2 minutes ago, Armagon said: Despite everything Fates did not change Forrest's gender tho. Well, they did retcon the (which is, in fact, the subject of the clip, if you didn't know - actually the video it comes from is rather relevant to the subject at hand lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Armagon said: The problem is not every fan criticism is met in good faith. Yes Like Most of the time localizers react in very bad faith - that's the root of the Problem 18 minutes ago, Armagon said: And sometimes fan criticism and "what the fans want" is actually worse. Not just for locs but for anything. Then the response should be professional and well reason'd and not "fuck the fans' 18 minutes ago, Armagon said: think locs like Fates' are the ones people should focus on. Even if the Beruka/Saizo C-Support change is ironically really funny. Yes 18 minutes ago, Armagon said: Despite everything Fates did not change Forrest's gender tho. Did we forget Soleil Yeah i agree the og was bad. Real bad - and the change is most likely for the better Still would've rather had the original and them getting rightfully blasted over it Especially since even localized Soleil is still creepy 18 minutes ago, Armagon said: Besides that one manga, imma need to see more cases of this tbh One Manga should be enough, but you brought up Fates yourself 😛 - there're some other cases i encountered including one particular can of worms i am not willing to open right now. Point being - wether back then removing what was considered "sexual deviance" (usually to the detriment of lgbtq) or the modern "adapting to western (usually american) sensibilities" i am always against these changes. Not the localizers job. And not just sexual stuff either, but ideological, political, bloody, edgy, whatever. Don't insert something that wasn't there, don't remove something that was there. Edited February 27 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Massive difficulty spike in Dragon's Crown, it's clear they want you to play with friends. ...yeah let's just pretend i beat it. I don't have too much to say, the game looks great, sounds great. Gameplay def gets repetitive when you don't have your pals. Story is literally just DND. Honestly as a single player game, 6/10. With friends, it's 8/10. So the final score is 7/10. 21 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Then the response should be professional and well reason'd and not "fuck the fans' The fans should stop harassing them then. 22 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Especially since even localized Soleil is still creepy Slander towards my girl. 22 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: And not just sexual stuff either, but ideological, political, bloody, edgy, whatever. Don't insert something that wasn't there, don't remove something that was there. But also if it might be culturally offensive to wherever it's being localized, changing it is valid too. Metal Face's name being kept as Black Face would not have flown over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 . 3 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Ok but imagine the memespace without all according to Keikaku Yes, it's good for memes for sure, but if that thing had been put on the official translation it'd have been outrageous lol. 3 minutes ago, Armagon said: Besides that one manga, imma need to see more cases of this tbh. Sailor moon anime does it at least twice. Once they changed a pair of girlfriend to COUSINS on the american dub, and other they changed one dude from a gay couple into a woman so it'd become a straight couple. Can't think of more examples though, and the Sailor moon is a bit old also if that matters for the argument. 5 minutes ago, Armagon said: I'm curious, it was brought up for Spanish but is there discourse between Brazilian Portuguese dubs and Original Portuguese like how it is with Spanish? Not much, I mean, coincidentaly, I live in portugal now so I see people talk in Original Portuguese, there's a big rivalry between here and Brasil in terms of slangs, having different words for the same thing and each finding the word the other people use stupid, how some letters should sound, brazillians and portugueses not understanding each other's accents (it's way more different than american vs british accent) and other real life things, but in terms of translations between the two, not much. Things are hardly translated to portuguese from portugal (I mean, the most famous manga have official translations- likely not many fan transaltions for anything though- but I never read a manga in portuguese form portugal so i don't know how accurate it is, but they likely translate it from english nowadays anyway), they mostly read fan translations (also a lot of videos, etc) from Brasil if they need any (to the point where some of them even use some brazilian slang, while on Brasil I've never heard slang or word from Portugal before moving here) because a lot more content is made there. In Portugal you don't see movies being dubbed too (only kid movies and some cartoons) and people absolutely never watch dubbed anime (again only super famous and older anime like One Piece and Dragon Ball get portuguese from portugal dubs, and my friends all said that it's shit and sounds like gay porn lol), anime dubs in Brasil are being less and less frequent (major animes like BNHA don't have a dub yet as far as I know, neither does the newest Hunter x Hunter anime and I think the newer One Piece episodes stopped being dubbed some years ago, while 15 years ago most relatively famous animes had a dub). Games literally never have a localization in portuguese from portugal either, some have in portuguese from Brasil and that's it. The reason for all of this is that most people have an ok understanding of english in portugal (along with the giantic amount of brazilian fan content, along with the fact that otaku culture only started being a major thing here some years ago so there's no old fantranslations from portugal either) while in Brasil it's not everyone that is good at english AND on top pf that there's a bunch of people learning japanese there and harcore otakus since a lot of time agot (I'd bet at least since the 90's/2000's) so there was always somone that translated underdog mangas directly from japanese to portuguese (while nowadays a bunch of translations are made from english too) and there had to be dubs for everything cause a bunch of people refuse to watch subs (that's stopping nowadays though, as I said before, a bunch of mainstream anime is not getting a brazilian dub). Eh, ended up writing a whole essay on the matter but that's it. 28 minutes ago, Armagon said: Lol I've seenn this comic, I love the AnkwardZombie comics. 22 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: Gahahaha, nah, nah. That's a little bit from a hack I've recently started making. Just thought I'd throw a bit of levity in there. Oh, ok! I was starting to think that someone made a fanslation and put that in for the lols. The hack is about what? 24 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: I do feel trying to set Ace Attorney in the US (heck wasn't it just for the benefit of the one timezone puzzle at the very start of the first game?) was pretty reckless. It's not like they didn't know about the increasingly more Japanese setting - by the time the games were localized on the DS, the entire original trilogy already existed! Still, it leads to some fun dumbassery. But sheesh, Ace Attorney localizations were all over the place. Remember the one typo in Justice For All's bad ending? Klavier becoming German for absolutely no reason? Benjamin Hunter? Okay, Benjamin Hunter's the French version but I just wanted to bring that up. They really did take Edgeworth and called him Benjamin motherfucking Hunter. That's glorious. This is true. Well, they did retcon the Hmmmm, now that you mention it's a bit less excellent than I remember, or rather, it does have obvious mistakes, but I still think it's pretty good overrall, they managed to replace every name and redo every pun and that alone look very hard. One think I'm bummed about is that one of Diego Armando's concepts for name in the localization was William Havamug (as in, "have a mug") and it'd have been awesome if they had gone with that one, I still like the one that stuck though. Oh yeah, that bad ending line is even on the description/"about me" of my Discord profile, way too iconic and unfortunately they made the phrase right when they reported/rereleased the game... Also, what the fuck isn't Klavier supposed to be german?! I never realized that before but guess it makes sense, let me guess he's american then on the original version? If yes then that'd make sense, since they wanted him to foreign (or rather, a foreign wannabe, as he isn't actually german, they even say he fakes the accent) and the USA was already being used as the game's main setting (basically they just turned him into an wannabe euro rocker instead of a wannabe american rocker). Didn't know about the Benjamin Hunter thing to. LOL (seriously, wonder what was the idea behind that one). Klavier also has a different name in the german localization (it's Konrad or Conrad, if I'm remembering it correctly) because "klavier" is literally just the world "piano" in german. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 13 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said: Sailor moon anime does it at least twice. Once they changed a pair of girlfriend to COUSINS on the american dub, and other they changed one dude from a gay couple into a woman so it'd become a straight couple. Can't think of more examples though, and the Sailor moon is a bit old also if that matters for the argument. Homosexuality was seen as a no-no in 90s America. So it made sense for the time even if it was wrong. 14 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said: there's a big rivalry between here and Brasil in terms of slangs, having different words for the same thing and each finding the word the other people use stupid, how some letters should sound, brazillians and portugueses not understanding each other's accents (it's way more different than american vs british accent) and other real life things Interesting. I did kinda wonder how it went since there's only two countries that speak Portuguese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 15 minutes ago, Armagon said: Massive difficulty spike in Dragon's Crown, it's clear they want you to play with friends. ...yeah let's just pretend i beat it. Abrupt.😐 But then it's not like this kind of thing hasn't happened to me before.😅 15 minutes ago, Armagon said: It doesn't surprise me Vanillaware makes a good still life. -With a Kamitani flourish. 15 minutes ago, Armagon said: Honestly as a single player game, 6/10. With friends, it's 8/10. So the final score is 7/10. I could see this being the case. Solid enough as a pure gameplay experience, but co-op for the true fun is always a letdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, Armagon said: Homosexuality was seen as a no-no in 90s America. So it made sense for the time even if it was wrong. Interesting. I did kinda wonder how it went since there's only two countries that speak Portuguese. Noooooooooo there's more. Angola (a bunch of people from Angola come to Portugal too), Moçambique, Cape Verde, 2 more in Africa that I forgot the name right now, I think there's 1 or 2 in Asia too. Yeah, the thing about Sailor Moon makes sense, I still find it utterly bizarre that they said they were cousins, WHY? Just say very affectionate best friends or something then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 You know what can be a weird moment in a dub? The script is loyal to the original, no censoring, etc. But they still use terminology from a different dub. That's how some of our dubs were. Like Sailor Moon's, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said: You know what can be a weird moment in a dub? The script is loyal to the original, no censoring, etc. But they still use terminology from a different dub. That's how some of our dubs were. Like Sailor Moon's, for example. Like what terminology? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just now, ARMADS!!! said: Like what terminology? Stuff like names. Like, Usagi being Serena. But our dub didn't censor Haruka and Michuru's relationship, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 12 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said: Angola (a bunch of people from Angola come to Portugal too), Moçambique, Cape Verde, 2 more in Africa that I forgot the name right now, I think there's 1 or 2 in Asia too. Alright TIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 New Skell I've called it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said: Noooooooooo there's more. Angola (a bunch of people from Angola come to Portugal too), Moçambique, Cape Verde, 2 more in Africa that I forgot the name right now, I think there's 1 or 2 in Asia too. I know one of those in Africa likely is Guinea-Bissau. As for Asia, that's East Timor. Though Macau and Goa might still have speakers even if they're not independent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 4 hours ago, Armagon said: The fans should stop harassing them then Yes But the localizers have the power here and they started the whole mess 4 hours ago, Armagon said: But also if it might be culturally offensive to wherever it's being localized, changing it is valid too. Massively disagree. Not only because we're all not the same culture (in am not american don't americanize stuff for me), but also because it's a slippery slope as what's offensive changes over time and can be used to remove things from older stuff. Or even outright censor, which happens all the time. Not to mention people should face things that make them uncomfortable (and better in fiction/media than irl) and learn what's considered normal/offensive elsewhere. It's a very stupid reason, and can be used to censor anything, especially since the world is not a monolith. No one should police fiction/media that comes from somewhere else. Nty. 4 hours ago, Armagon said: Metal Face's name being kept as Black Face would not have flown over here. Lmao I think it's pretty funny ngl. Would've made for great memes. 4 hours ago, Armagon said: was seen as a no-no There should be no-nos when it comes writing, only the appropiate rating/tagging. Anything else is a slippery slope. 4 hours ago, Armagon said: So it made sense for the time even if it was wrong. "Anime makes you trans" was a sentiment back then, along with "makes you a devil worshipper" and "games make you a murderer". We already dealt with this bullshit before, having to deal with the same thing again but with a progressive coat of paint is just as bad. And doesn't speak for a change in mindset, but just replacing the x with y. The wrong lessons were learned. Edited February 27 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 2/25/2024 at 12:24 PM, GuardianSing said: What a coincidence. To think people questioned GuardinanSing's divine right to rule with such evidence of the divine smiling on them. On 2/25/2024 at 3:37 PM, Armagon said: Seeing a goofy-ass mfer on Twitter start Unicorn Overlord localization discourse. This is what he's mad about FF Tactics did the exact same thing and people love that game but annoying mfers on Twitter lose their shit if things aren't 1:1. With a snap of my fingers, every annoying mfer who complains about localization not being direct 1:1 will cease to exist and the sun will rise on a grateful universe. Ah the pettiness of localization complaints, in full display here. They aren't even trying to disguise the pettiness this time. On 2/25/2024 at 5:39 PM, GRANDGOBO said: Hi, I’m new to this site it looks like this is a popular chatroom? I don’t know. Is this about Unicorn Overlord right now? I saw something about it being Vanillaware related Welcome to the forum, and there has definitely been a fair bit of Unicorn Overlord talk going on recently. Although there is plenty of random videogame talk from Crusader Kings, Fire Emblem games, to plenty of play logs of SRW games etc, so feel free to talk about whatever game (or other thing, like books, or what ever) has drawn your fancy recently. 21 hours ago, GuardianSing said: I-It all happened so fast. Damn, and then you win a defensive crusade out of no where? That is kind of impressive, as those things can cascade into a real disaster. 21 hours ago, GuardianSing said: The OG Khan had already died before I checked the leader screen but apparently he was called Temujin 'the Feeble' which is incredibly funny. That is kind of funny, but I guess that feebleness was not a detriment to their overwhelming conquests. 13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: The producer approved, the opposite of what I heard about Metal Gear Solid 1. The original PS1 translation wasn't direct, which Kojima didn't like, so the GameCube remake MGS: The Twin Snakes was made with a more literal translation. OMG, is that obsessive control why this occurs throughout the series... These hilariously pointless repeated question are so normal in Japanese and so very silly in English... Although that does clash oddly with how aggressively hands-off Hideo Kojima went with that remake. There were interviews with him and the director of the remake about Kojima telling the director to intentionally depart from the original's feel and tone. Kojima said he trusted the man, and wanted to experiment with how changes in directorial vision would impact the remake, and he even had to quash the far more faithful remake that was originally planned. 11 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said: Interestingly, he still said the localization was "closer to the Japanese text" than the direct translation. That's a curious distinction to make. The languages are different enough that direct translations tend to imply thing they shouldn't between them. From the way the passive voice is treated, the gendering of spoken language (I am talking about things like Ore here, or other way casual Japanese tends to reveal the speakers gender), the way subjects are so often implied in Japanese, the intimacy of the 2nd person in Japanese...I feel I could keep going, but a direct translation often veers away from, or misses important aspects of meaning, that often have to be interpreted. To spin things on their heads, how would you translate the difference in English between calling something a Murder, and calling it a Homicide? 11 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: as pointed out - cherry picking. Its just as much cherry picking 11 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: See Ys 8, or the BL manga i talked about a while ago. And that's just the tip of the iceberg as these two very specific examples are... 8 hours ago, Armagon said: I may have just witnessed a public execution. This really does sum up what I feel a vast majority of localization complaints boil down to. 8 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: And fan-tl's don't just do that - they actually engage with the community and receive feedback - unlike some localizers that only seem intent on pissing off fans. You massively undervalue'ing the work fantranslator do and did. Most of the jp games you play and animanga you read/watch wouldn't be here without the fan translation era - and the decensoring of the bullshit we faced back then. You really like putting fan-tl on a pedestal, when I have seen plenty garbo fan translations pushed out just to be the first, that don't give a shit about anything else, fans or otherwise. Hell you don't even have to leave Fire Emblem to see how imperfect fan translators can be, just look at the history of Thracia 776 with its old "in America" one, to the drama Project Exile had. 2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: But the localizers have the power here and they startes the whole mess What are your trying to say with this? Are you trying to say its OK to send death threats and harass people online because they "started it" by translating something in a way that someone else doesn't like? Is failing to create a localization that every human on earth believes is the best one possible, really "starting things" ? Are they "stating the whole mess" by allowing people to harass them by having to have a twitter account for networking purposes? Is responding to people spamming repeated questions on your person twitter, who do not bothering to check if you have a professional twitter account, or some official channels for asking those questions, "starting things" now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 44 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Yes But the localizers have the power here and they started the whole mess Massively disagree. Not only because we're all not the same culture (in am not american don't americanize stuff for me), but also because it's a slippery slope as what's offensive changes over time and can be used to remove things from older stuff. Or even outright censor, which happens all the time. Not to mention people should face things that make them uncomfortable (and better in fiction/media than irl) and learn what's considered normal/offensive elsewhere. It's a very stupid reason, and can be used to censor anything, especially since the world is not a monolith. No one should police fiction/media that comes from somewhere else. Nty. Lmao I think it's pretty funny ngl. Would've made for great memes. There should be no-nos when it comes writing, only the appropiate rating/tagging. Anything else is a slippery slope. "Anime makes you trans" was a sentiment back then, along with "makes you a devil worshipper" and "games make you a murderer". We already dealt with this bullshit before, having to deal with the same thing again but with a progressive coat of paint is just as bad. And doesn't speak for a change in mindset, but just replacing the x with y. The wrong lessons were learned. I agree with a bunch of these such as how it's stupid to americanize some stuff (specially for things that are gonna be released in more place than in USA), that people should learn to deal with fiction and that it's very good to know how to deal with reality(and if you can't deal with it, then don't watch), that media from other places shouldn't be policed and it's great to have an insight in what's normal or not in other places, etc. Unfortunately that's not how it actually works in a bunch if places and situations, even if it should be, and it's not the localizers' fault, because sometimes cartoons etc are banned from a whole country because a specific scene wasn't removed or censored, it's shit that this "has" to happen, but it's not the localizers fault, it's the fault of the government of certain places or of a wave of angry parents begging the channel to not put that thing on anymore or sometimes the changes are requested by a superior person who thinks it'll sell more if they change something (and in some cases I think it really does, either because too many obscure cultural references from other place might alienate someone or for other reasons). Steven Universe was instantly banned from several middle eastern countries after showing the lesbian wedding, Cartoon Network in Brasil was known for censoring a bunch of stupid things because there were violent waves of freaked out parents calling the the network to ban said things (and it was nothing "major" like the lesbian wedding in SU, it was usually very minor things like minor sexual innuendo or things that were "too violent"(jump the video to 0:44 to see the side by side comparisions) mostly in Adventure time and Regular Show, of course that the older fans detested it but if the network had kept it the angry parents would come at them, there were other sorta minor censoring too such as turning down language in insults). Don't get me wrong, I think it's bad too but in some cases it unfortunately has to happen to have the thing sold (or not banned, even). At least we get funny memes with this sorta stuff like several of the absurd instances of censoring in 4Kids. Also, what do you mean when you keep saying that localizers act in bad faith and to troll the fans? I can't think of any example of this, except for the infamous Ghost Stories. For who doesn't know, the Jap team that sent the Ghost Stories anime to the Eng localizer team said "we don't know what sells in the USA and we want the anime to be famous, so you guys can do anything that you think will make it popular, only thing you can't change is the name of the characters, and this was the end result (yes, it's the actual localized dub): here a longer compilation if you want more examples from Ghost Stories (all from the actual localization): In the end it's worth it for the meme value and it also ended up making the anime famous as the jap team wanted but... Obviously a crack dub made for trolling purpouses... I can't think of any other case like this lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Oh, we passed the funny nicenice page of the thread without noticing. Folks, we failed at juvenile internet humour. We are a disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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