Three Hopes - Rate their Chances

[Fabulously Olivier]

Yeah, I don't know how much I want to get into the Dorothea v Chalotte thing. They're basically the same character, except Dorothea has class and I'd say there is more to her. Suffice it to say, while that type of character is much more sympathetic within the context of historical society with its gross lack of upward mobility, I don't much care for either of them. At least they aren't outright mean-spirited like some characters (coughSylvaincough).

Edited March 16, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[ciphertul]

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

They're basically the same character, except Dorothea has class

Dorothea has as much class as a pole dancer that takes coupons. While it is a personal opinion, Dorothea add less positive to the stereotype then Charlotte.

(Before any misunderstands this, what I mean is Pole dancing is generally seen as a low class form of dance while coupons are often seen as low class as well) 

Edited March 16, 2022 by ciphertul
Clarification of the joke.

[Dark Holy Elf]

 

1 hour ago, ciphertul said:

Dorothea has as much class as a pole dancer that takes coupons.

Maybe instead of clarifying the joke you could replace it with one that isn't grossly misogynistic, or not make one in the first place.

I'm trying to add a second sentence to this post but I can't think of one that isn't insulting.

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

Maybe instead of clarifying the joke you could replace it with one that isn't grossly misogynistic, or not make one in the first place.

I'm trying to add a second sentence to this post but I can't think of one that isn't insulting.

Then insult me if you find that grossly misogynistic because you know only women can be pole dancers, men can’t be. It’s fine if you don’t like or enjoy the joke but it’s still a joke.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Let's .... move on from that particular line of discussion. There's a lot more to Dorothea than that, including her supports. I'm personally quite a fan of her Ferdinand angry couple romance; it's amusing and makes them fittingly seem like the stars of a soap opera.

 

10 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Then insult me if you find that grossly misogynistic because you know only women can be pole dancers, men can’t be. It’s fine if you don’t like or enjoy the joke but it’s still a joke.

While I certainly think the image of a Magic Mike Sylvain is amusing.... let's not.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Use the Falchion]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

magic-user from the Black Eagles (Hubert) is all-but-confirmed.

I've always felt like if both Dorothea and Marianne are in the game (very likely IMO) and so are clones, then these two characters would be a decent example. 

Hubert and Lysithea cover the magic-user example, as you say, but I think Dorothea and Marianne could cover the magic sword user example. The way I see it, particularly for swords, we've got: 

Heavy Sword Users (Swordmasters) - Felix, Byleth, and most likely Catherine.*

Light Sword Users (Assassins) - Petra, Yuri, Ignatz

Magic Sword Users (Mortal Savants or characters with magic and sword strengths) - Marianne (with Blutgang), Dorothea (either with a Levin Sword or a flame sword made for this game), and possibly Rhea or Manuela, if either of them make it into the game. For Marianne, Dorothea, and Manuela, it would fit their Dancer/Singer association as well. (Rhea would fit the singer association, given the scenes with her singing and the potential fact that it was her who inspired Manuela to sing.)

 

But they may just make Marianne a Holy Knight if they need more mounted characters or a Falcon Knight if they need more flyers. 

 

*Catherine for me actually fits in the Light Sword User category, but I can see feel like she's better as a Heavy Sword User. Although that could change, depending on who's playable, including Mr. Purple Haired Antagonist. 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

2 hours ago, ciphertul said:

Dorothea has as much class as a pole dancer that takes coupons.

Don't you fucking DARE come at me about "half-assed" reasoning ever again. "It'S jUsT a JoKe." No, don't ever come at me again, you misogynistic jerkwad.

*Putting ciphertul on ignore* Sorry, we need to move on, and I am now, but I wasn't letting that fly after what was said to me.

[vanguard333]

Dorothea is definitely very likely. She's a very popular character and she's the obvious choice for a dancer unit. Her main drawback is that she doesn't have plot-relevance, but not every character that's made playable needs to have plot-relevance. Plus, this is Koei Tecmo, so there's also fanservice as an incentive for Dorothea to be included.

Overall, I'd say 9/10.

 

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Let's .... move on from that particular line of discussion. There's a lot more to Dorothea than that, including her supports. I'm personally quite a fan of her Ferdinand angry couple romance; it's amusing and makes them fittingly seem like the stars of a soap opera.

I agree; let's move on.

Her supports with Ferdinand were definitely great; I'm normally really not a fan of the "grudge held for years was born from a misunderstanding that could've been cleared up" trope, but I didn't mind it with them and at least it made sense.

Edited March 16, 2022 by vanguard333

[ciphertul]

14 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I agree; let's move on.

If you want to move on the way did you quote me? You clearly wanted me to see what you said.

 

15 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I'm going to have to agree with the crowd; this does come across as rather misogynistic.

I honestly don’t believe any of you know what misogyny is. Calling one girl low class doesn’t mean I’m sexist against all women… more so when a majority of my personal high ratings are for women.

[vanguard333]

Just now, ciphertul said:

If you want to move on the way did you quote me? You clearly wanted me to see what you said.

I replied to each statement in chronological order in which I read them; I saw your comment, wrote the reply, then saw the "let's move on" statement and agreed with it, as I didn't want to perpetuate the conversation (that I was late to anyway). I probably should've deleted the reply to you before posting.

[ciphertul]

4 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I replied to each statement in chronological order in which I read them; I saw your comment, wrote the reply, then saw the "let's move on" statement and agreed with it, as I didn't want to perpetuate the conversation (that I was late to anyway). I probably should've deleted the reply to you before posting.

If it was a mistake then I apologize, I can't and won't fault you for a slip of the mind. So I am sorry.

[vanguard333]

1 minute ago, ciphertul said:

If it was a mistake then I apologize, I can't and won't fault you for a slip of the mind. So I am sorry.

Apology accepted.

 

Anyway, I think Dorothea's chances of being playable largely hinge on one thing: is the dancer class viable for a Warriors game? If yes, then she's definitely going to be playable in Three Hopes as she's the obvious choice for it.

[Fabulously Olivier]

18 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Apology accepted.

 

Anyway, I think Dorothea's chances of being playable largely hinge on one thing: is the dancer class viable for a Warriors game? If yes, then she's definitely going to be playable in Three Hopes as she's the obvious choice for it.

I mean I would hope the dancer class is viable since both Azura and Olivia made Warriors 1 as dancers.

[ciphertul]

3 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I mean I would hope the dancer class is viable since both Azura and Olivia made Warriors 1 as dancers.

Well Azura was a songstress which would make more sense for Dorothea.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, ciphertul said:

Well Azura was a songstress which would make more sense for Dorothea.

When I say dancer, I mean all refreshers. Songstress, bard, heron, potato, whatever. They function the same.

[vanguard333]

10 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I mean I would hope the dancer class is viable since both Azura and Olivia made Warriors 1 as dancers.

Thanks for the info. In that case then, Dorothea is definitely going to be playable in Three Hopes. She's the obvious choice for being the dancer character.

 

5 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

When I say dancer, I mean all refreshers. Songstress, bard, heron, potato, whatever. They function the same.

I don't want to nitpick, but the actual class name in that game was tomato, not potato. "potato" was that game's version of armor knight.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Magic Sword Users (Mortal Savants or characters with magic and sword strengths) - Marianne (with Blutgang), Dorothea (either with a Levin Sword or a flame sword made for this game), and possibly Rhea or Manuela, if either of them make it into the game. For Marianne, Dorothea, and Manuela, it would fit their Dancer/Singer association as well. (Rhea would fit the singer association, given the scenes with her singing and the potential fact that it was her who inspired Manuela to sing.)

But they may just make Marianne a Holy Knight if they need more mounted characters or a Falcon Knight if they need more flyers. 

There are so many directions they could take Marianne. Infantry Mage, Infantry Sword-and-Sorcery, Lance Cavalry, Sword Cavalry, Magic Cavalry, Lance Flier, Sword Flier, Dancer... to name a few.

As for Dorothea, yeah a "Magic Sword" or "Sword and Sorcery" incarnation would probably make sense. Interestingly enough, I could actually see Lysithea getting the same, since she learns Soulblade through her Budding Talent. ...Although, if they want more "pure Mages", she's one of the better candidates.

[Florete]

Dorothea is my favorite character in Three Houses, so naturally I want to see her get in, but I'm honestly not really sure how to rate her chances. She's popular, and being the most-commonly used unit in Three Houses adds recognizability which is a neat plus, and she's the obvious candidate for a unique dancer/singer type. She's also the 3rd most popular BE female (I'll never understand how Bernadetta is so popular), but that's not as much of an issue for an Eagle since their leader is female and none of the Eagle men are especially popular.

I don't know, 80% sounds good.

Also, @Fabulously Olivier, how are you calculating scores? I first noticed Shamir's final score seemed higher than I expected and when I averaged the ratings I got 6.13 as opposed to your 6.9. I then decided to check the next couple and got 4.125 for Balthus (as opposed to your 4.25) and got the same 8.55 for Ingrid. I don't know what's going on there.

33 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I honestly don’t believe any of you know what misogyny is. Calling one girl low class doesn’t mean I’m sexist against all women… more so when a majority of my personal high ratings are for women.

No one said you were sexist against all women. Sounds more like you don't properly understand what misogyny is.

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Florete said:

Dorothea is my favorite character in Three Houses, so naturally I want to see her get in, but I'm honestly not really sure how to rate her chances. She's popular, and being the most-commonly used unit in Three Houses adds recognizability which is a neat plus, and she's the obvious candidate for a unique dancer/singer type. She's also the 3rd most popular BE female (I'll never understand how Bernadetta is so popular), but that's not as much of an issue for an Eagle since their leader is female and none of the Eagle men are especially popular.

I don't know, 80% sounds good.

Also, @Fabulously Olivier, how are you calculating scores? I first noticed Shamir's final score seemed higher than I expected and when I averaged the ratings I got 6.13 as opposed to your 6.9. I then decided to check the next couple and got 4.125 for Balthus (as opposed to your 4.25) and got the same 8.55 for Ingrid. I don't know what's going on there.

No one said you were sexist against all women. Sounds more like you don't properly understand what misogyny is.

I'll double check those numbers since you brought them up. I've been manually adding the chance scores (not want scores) of characters together, then dividing by the number of entries. Rounding to the hundreth place. Some posters list multiple such scores without emphasizing any one score as the one to pick, and so require me to pick it out by context. Which may explain the differences.

[Florete]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I'll double check those numbers since you brought them up. I've been manually adding the chance scores (not want scores) of characters together, then dividing by the number of entries. Rounding to the hundreth place. Some posters list multiple such scores without emphasizing any one score as the one to pick, and so require me to pick it out by context. Which may explain the differences.

Do you have a spreadsheet like Microsoft Excel you can use to automatically calculate the scores? Just to make sure you don't make any errors in your math.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just now, Florete said:

Do you have a spreadsheet like Microsoft Excel you can use to automatically calculate the scores? Just to make sure you don't make any errors in your math.

I may have to, but no, I don't happen to have an office license.

 

Anyway, the Balthus score is actually the result of a change in Ciphertul's score from 3 to 4 (see a post below) based on the observation that the brawler moveset exists already.

[Florete]

2 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Anyway, the Balthus score is actually the result of a change in Ciphertul's score from 3 to 4 (see a post below) based on the observation that the brawler moveset exists already.

Yeah, that checks out. I was just scrolling through looking for scores so I missed that.

[Fabulously Olivier]

15 minutes ago, Florete said:

Yeah, that checks out. I was just scrolling through looking for scores so I missed that.

I have no explanation for the Shamir discrepancy. Some entry must have either been left out or entered twice. I've triple checked it and corrected it to 6.13.

[Use the Falchion]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I could actually see Lysithea getting the same, since she learns Soulblade through her Budding Talent. ...Although, if they want more "pure Mages", she's one of the better candidates.

I thought about that two, but I decided against it given Lysithea's preference as a Gremory in terms of both art and in-game function from what I can tell. This also could mean that we have at least two Black Magic users in Huber & Lysthea, two "normal" offensive magic users in Annette* and Linhardt, and two magic sword users in Marianne and Dorothea. 

*Annette does cause some issues, since she can use Crusher. Does that mean she's a magical axe user or just a regular axe user? 

[Fabulously Olivier]

19 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

I thought about that two, but I decided against it given Lysithea's preference as a Gremory in terms of both art and in-game function from what I can tell. This also could mean that we have at least two Black Magic users in Huber & Lysthea, two "normal" offensive magic users in Annette* and Linhardt, and two magic sword users in Marianne and Dorothea. 

*Annette does cause some issues, since she can use Crusher. Does that mean she's a magical axe user or just a regular axe user? 

Bear in mind that the most accurate way of representing 3H might actually be to make ALL mages weapon users, and let you slot in your spells as active powers akin to those of One Piece Pirate Warriors 4 and Samurai Warriors 5.