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1 hour ago, Azz said:

Nope. Only staves and consumables have uses

Back to the Fates model of weaponry already, huh... I hope they do better at balancing weapons this time...

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So we've got the story from Awakening (more or less)

The Stands wait no Personas Emblems from Tokyo Mirage Sessions

The gameplay and base and bonding from Fates

The gacha mechanics (although toned down a LOT) and crazy abilities from Heroes

The mini-game quirky things from Three Houses also their character designs/children in some cases

 

This game is starting to feel like the "Best of 2010's FE Marathon," and I'm okay with that. 

 

 

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Okay, opinions!

- Dlc before the game releases is not okay and they should (morally) stop doing it. This doesn't seem to be a low-effort cash grab of a game at all, but still.
... with that being said, while I feel I've been quite patient with the anti-FE sentiment from non-FE fans (because the core of the complaint is correct, there are too many FE characters in Smash), said patience has run out a good while ago, and I do have to say, I kinda enjoy FE being shoved in their faces when they least expect it, nowadays. Long as it doesn't get ridiculous, of course.

- A bit of a bummer, but I had very high expectations for Roy and especially Leif after seeing what they did with Byleth and Corrin, and... yeah, can't lie, I'm disappointed. Roy's skill kit is fine but his weapons, I mean... again, if all reaver weapons do is give break, a lancereaver is just a normal lance/axe by any other name when it comes to engage weapons, the type of which doesn't matter since everyone can use them all. And the Wyrmslayer is fine and all but... shouldn't the Binding Blade be effective against wyverns dragons already? That's a fair bit redundant.
As for Leif, where to even begin? He barely represents Thracia at all(by the way, you'll never see him equipped with a Killer Axe, because they don't exist in FE4 and he's swordlocked in 5, so it's no more mechanically accurate than crusader weapons, and leagues less exciting), he's more of a nod at his FE4 Master Knight class, but not done in a very interesting way from what we're seeing. He's kind of the emblem of missed potential thus far.
... this, unfortunately, also means he won't be giving Forseti to mages, which I stupidly hoped for, even if they'd have to nerf it into the ground as usual.
... both look great though! Really happy that Roy's Smash VA is along for the ride. Also on that same note Ephraim just doesn't look right.

- Somniel certainly is stacked, even though it also seems rather small compared to the monastery. Can't lie, after 3H it's difficult to find a lot of this stuff exciting considering how much it ultimately got in the way of the rest of the game, but hey, we've yet to spot professor levels I guess, and if most of it really is reasonably optional...
... feels like we're setting ourselves up for disappointment by saying that, though.

- I've been ready for the retainers bomb to drop for a while; I'd rather they didn't do that as I don't think it's a great idea ultimately, but I'm fine with it.

- I'm completely okay with Rosado being whoever they are. It's funny because we'd heard their voice before, when they got healed in the Sigurd trailer and it did strike me back then, but if had completely slipped my mind.

- Never would have guessed Pandreo was a Brady. In general they do seem to be dropping the more... subtle? approach of 3H in terms of character writing, and it's full speed back to gimmick town. I think they have ample proof there's no need to do that for those characters to be colorful and loved, both in the "distant" and recent past. Guess I'll just deal with it.

- On a more positive note, engage attacks are only useable once per engage! Things are still busted left and right, but no amount of map design refinement could have resisted Byleth dancing four characters almost every turn. I was really hoping they'd do that.

Edited by Cysx
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33 minutes ago, Cysx said:

(by the way, you'll never see him equipped with a Killer Axe, because they don't exist in FE4 and he's swordlocked in 5, so it's no more mechanically accurate than crusader weapons, and leagues less exciting)

I agree that I wish Leif did a better job representing Thracia specifically--giving him the ability to capture generics would have been especially fitting--but just to play devil's advocate, in FE4 everything essentially becomes a Killer weapon if you use it enough times, so giving him a Killer weapon may be a reference to that.

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58 minutes ago, egobarrier said:

I agree that I wish Leif did a better job representing Thracia specifically--giving him the ability to capture generics would have been especially fitting--but just to play devil's advocate, in FE4 everything essentially becomes a Killer weapon if you use it enough times, so giving him a Killer weapon may be a reference to that.

Considering we already have Sigurd to represent FE4, choosing a relatively minor mechanic of it for Leif over any of Thracia, especially in such a specific way, would just be bizarre. Wouldn't need to be an axe either, and there is a killer weapon in FE4 (the Killer bow, as you probably know). As for Axe representation outside of crusader weapons, well you have the Brave Axe, which is the most important axe in both games (even more so than the Swanchika/Helswath, as you get to actually use it).


We've also seen him with the Light Sword, which, fair enough, that's his main weapon in Thracia. But with that lance we saw a glimpse of, there's no room left for the Sword of Braggi either, Leaving him with... nothing that's specifically from his own game, currently. I'm trying not to be too pissed about this but... yeah, I just kinda am, I guess.
... though we don't really have proof the Light sword will actually be an engage weapon of his.

Edited by Cysx
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18 minutes ago, Cysx said:

Considering we already have Sigurd to represent FE4, choosing a specific mechanic of it over any of Thracia, especially in such a specific way, would just be bizarre.

I mean, I didn't say I LIKED the idea, just that maybe that was what they were going for.

18 minutes ago, Cysx said:

Wouldn't need to be an axe either, and there is a killer weapon in FE4, the Killer bow. As for Axe representation outside of crusader weapons, well you have the Brave Axe, which is the most important Axe in both games (even more so than the Swanchika/Helswath, as you get to actually use it).

It kind of does have to be an axe as long as they're trying to make his gimmick "master of the weapon triangle," though of course there's no reason it had to be that way in the first place.

But since that is what they're going for it does bring up a possible counterpoint on the Brave Axe, namely that Emblem Leif switches to an advantageous weapon when attacked. If brave weapons work the same as in Fates--which seems reasonable, given the lack of weapon durability--the brave effect might be Player Phase-only and wouldn't be a good fit with his Engage Skill.

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4 hours ago, Cysx said:

a lancereaver is just a normal lance/axe by any other name when it comes to engage weapons, the type of which doesn't matter since everyone can use them all

Lancereaver being a sword still has a slight difference to axes since there are skills that boost sword specifically, and looks like Roy's Engage Attack only use sword (many Engage Attacks are locked to a certain weapon)

And on that note, I think Lyn represents the least about her game and herself: The Mulagir doesn't even exist in her game, and they feel the need to turn her more bow-focused, which I understand to a certain extend since too many sword lords already, but common, she's a Blade Lord for goodness sake!

4 hours ago, Cysx said:

Never would have guessed Pandreo was a Brady. In general they do seem to be dropping the more... subtle? approach of 3H in terms of character writing, and it's full speed back to gimmick town. I think they have ample proof there's no need to do that for those characters to be colorful and loved, both in the "distant" and recent past. Guess I'll just deal with it.

I don't think the problem is gimmicky characters, but one-note characters. Characters can feel a little gimmicky at a first glance to catch people attention, but it's the other aspects of their personality explored in supports that are more important. Even the 3H cast is pretty gimmicky too, although they certainly are more muted: Bernadetta is a ball of screaming anxiety, Hilda is this lazy girl that somehow can ace everything she does, Sylvain is the Cassanova wannabe... I think this level of gimmicky that we've seen is still comparable to GBA games' characters, which certainly almost no one has any problem with. It's only when they're one-note like in Fates that makes their supports boring and repetitive to read. Heck, even Awakening with its "full of gimmick" cast is really colorful once you know them better too!

Edited by kienquocsi
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4 hours ago, Cysx said:

- On a more positive note, engage attacks are only useable once per engage! Things are still busted left and right, but no amount of map design refinement could have resisted Byleth dancing four characters almost every turn. I was really hoping they'd do that.

That's good! Having it only once won't make people blindly use these broken skills willy nilly. Gives the players a choice between doing it early for a quick advantage or saving it for when they really need it.

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I think for Leif, the only real Thracia mechanic they could've brought was with him was stamina I feel like and even then I'm not sure how that would work necessarily (maybe a self-refresh?). Capturing generics would've been a bit much I think. At most maybe stealing enemy weapons and removing enemies from the battlefield perhaps at the loss of EXP/SP would've been the best way to implement that I guess.

I do like the nod to how in the Jugdral games (or at least FE4), enemy unit did change their weapons to get rid of WTD which is cool. I definitely do see why people would be upset given how Leif is more like his FE4 self as a Master Knight than his FE5 self.

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Yeah I get not liking Leif and Roy's choices of weapons, I can see options for Leif but for Roy there isn't much else to actually choose that'd be accurate to fe6 or heroes, though I'd hope the binding blade would have a different effect to make wyrmslayer feel unique. Or at least give wyrmslayer an extra bonus against dragons to make it not completely useless compared to the binding blade. We'll have to see.

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5 hours ago, egobarrier said:

I mean, I didn't say I LIKED the idea, just that maybe that was what they were going for.

Frankly, something tells me it's not, but who knows.

5 hours ago, egobarrier said:

It kind of does have to be an axe as long as they're trying to make his gimmick "master of the weapon triangle," though of course there's no reason it had to be that way in the first place.

But since that is what they're going for it does bring up a possible counterpoint on the Brave Axe, namely that Emblem Leif switches to an advantageous weapon when attacked. If brave weapons work the same as in Fates--which seems reasonable, given the lack of weapon durability--the brave effect might be Player Phase-only and wouldn't be a good fit with his Engage Skill.

I think they're going for a weapons master concept rather than something to do with the weapon triangle. There'd have been no need for a bow in his Engage attack otherwise. And while you're completely right about the brave axe probably not synergizing that well with that skill, I think its point is mostly to avoid getting broken, not necessarily to win you the fight per se.

4 hours ago, kienquocsi said:

Lancereaver being a sword still has a slight difference to axes since there are skills that boost sword specifically, and looks like Roy's Engage Attack only use sword (many Engage Attacks are locked to a certain weapon)

And on that note, I think Lyn represents the least about her game and herself: The Mulagir doesn't even exist in her game, and they feel the need to turn her more bow-focused, which I understand to a certain extend since too many sword lords already, but common, she's a Blade Lord for goodness sake!

Lyn is definitely a bit out there as well, but considering the Mulagir is Sacae's divine weapon and the after image clones is pretty clever... I don't think she's in that bad a situation. Though of course she needed a bow from bond 1 so that everyone could use her ultimate skill, and, yeah, no Sol Katti as a result it seems.

4 hours ago, kienquocsi said:

I don't think the problem is gimmicky characters, but one-note characters. Characters can feel a little gimmicky at a first glance to catch people attention, but it's the other aspects of their personality explored in supports that are more important. Even the 3H cast is pretty gimmicky too, although they certainly are more muted: Bernadetta is a ball of screaming anxiety, Hilda is this lazy girl that somehow can ace everything she does, Sylvain is the Cassanova wannabe... I think this level of gimmicky that we've seen is still comparable to GBA games' characters, which certainly almost no one has any problem with. It's only when they're one-note like in Fates that makes their supports boring and repetitive to read. Heck, even Awakening with its "full of gimmick" cast is really colorful once you know them better too!

This is a bit... wide a subject, and everyone kinda has their own take on it. On a personal level, things like Gaius' introduction sour the character for me basically forever, so clearly I don't think too highly of gimmicks. But yes, the problem is when they get overbearing, which to be honest, is the vibe I've gotten from some of these character's dialogue... doesn't mean I'm right, though.
As for 3H, it has its candidates, but frankly I think GBA FE does too, same for Tellius. It's a bit of a matter of ratio in that regard I think; you can have a few and things can still be fine. In fact the rest of the cast can then play off of them naturally.

3 hours ago, Azz said:

I think for Leif, the only real Thracia mechanic they could've brought was with him was stamina I feel like and even then I'm not sure how that would work necessarily (maybe a self-refresh?). Capturing generics would've been a bit much I think. At most maybe stealing enemy weapons and removing enemies from the battlefield perhaps at the loss of EXP/SP would've been the best way to implement that I guess.

Oh, no, there are tons they could have done(though of course, capturing's easily one of the biggest). Thracia also has PCC(aka your crit is multiplied on your second attack if you can double), movement stars, leadership, Res and Mag being fused, movement and build growth rates, growth scrolls, elite mode, almost 20 personal weapons including the almighty steal staff, master weapons, rescuing, bond supports (especially so for this one because Leif holds the record for those across the series) and some unique takes on certain skills, like Wrath, Miracle, Charge... actually I've just listed them all... probably some other things that I'm not thinking of right now.

Not all of that is unique to Thracia, but it's usually most prominent there, and to our knowledge not currently represented in Engage. And really I wasn't asking for anything specific, just, not... nothing, yeah.

2 hours ago, Crubat said:

Yeah I get not liking Leif and Roy's choices of weapons, I can see options for Leif but for Roy there isn't much else to actually choose that'd be accurate to fe6 or heroes, though I'd hope the binding blade would have a different effect to make wyrmslayer feel unique. Or at least give wyrmslayer an extra bonus against dragons to make it not completely useless compared to the binding blade. We'll have to see.

Roy's weapon selection was always going to be a problem for sure, though there were better choices available, like the Durandal, the Eckesachs, the Light Brand the way it works in FE6(fixed damage), the armorslayer and killer sword even, considering they're at their most relevant or close to that in FE6... They could also have said screw it and given him other things than swords. Mostly I'm bummed that his kit sorely lacks in versatility, from what we currently know.

Edited by Cysx
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9 hours ago, Cysx said:

- On a more positive note, engage attacks are only useable once per engage! Things are still busted left and right, but no amount of map design refinement could have resisted Byleth dancing four characters almost every turn. I was really hoping they'd do that.

I'd prefer once per map, but this works too. Because some of the stuff they allow you to pull makes me think "God, this shit is broken!!". Also, I seriously hope that with how busted some of these Engage attacks are, the enemies are actually hardy enough that the use of something that overpowered is actually justifiable.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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11 hours ago, Cysx said:

Okay, opinions!

- Dlc before the game releases is not okay and they should (morally) stop doing it. This doesn't seem to be a low-effort cash grab of a game at all, but still.
... with that being said, while I feel I've been quite patient with the anti-FE sentiment from non-FE fans (because the core of the complaint is correct, there are too many FE characters in Smash), said patience has run out a good while ago, and I do have to say, I kinda enjoy FE being shoved in their faces when they least expect it, nowadays. Long as it doesn't get ridiculous, of course.

- A bit of a bummer, but I had very high expectations for Roy and especially Leif after seeing what they did with Byleth and Corrin, and... yeah, can't lie, I'm disappointed. Roy's skill kit is fine but his weapons, I mean... again, if all reaver weapons do is give break, a lancereaver is just a normal lance/axe by any other name when it comes to engage weapons, the type of which doesn't matter since everyone can use them all. And the Wyrmslayer is fine and all but... shouldn't the Binding Blade be effective against wyverns dragons already? That's a fair bit redundant.
As for Leif, where to even begin? He barely represents Thracia at all(by the way, you'll never see him equipped with a Killer Axe, because they don't exist in FE4 and he's swordlocked in 5, so it's no more mechanically accurate than crusader weapons, and leagues less exciting), he's more of a nod at his FE4 Master Knight class, but not done in a very interesting way from what we're seeing. He's kind of the emblem of missed potential thus far.
... this, unfortunately, also means he won't be giving Forseti to mages, which I stupidly hoped for, even if they'd have to nerf it into the ground as usual.
... both look great though! Really happy that Roy's Smash VA is along for the ride. Also on that same note Ephraim just doesn't look right.

- Somniel certainly is stacked, even though it also seems rather small compared to the monastery. Can't lie, after 3H it's difficult to find a lot of this stuff exciting considering how much it ultimately got in the way of the rest of the game, but hey, we've yet to spot professor levels I guess, and if most of it really is reasonably optional...
... feels like we're setting ourselves up for disappointment by saying that, though.

- I've been ready for the retainers bomb to drop for a while; I'd rather they didn't do that as I don't think it's a great idea ultimately, but I'm fine with it.

- I'm completely okay with Rosado being whoever they are. It's funny because we'd heard their voice before, when they got healed in the Sigurd trailer and it did strike me back then, but if had completely slipped my mind.

- Never would have guessed Pandreo was a Brady. In general they do seem to be dropping the more... subtle? approach of 3H in terms of character writing, and it's full speed back to gimmick town. I think they have ample proof there's no need to do that for those characters to be colorful and loved, both in the "distant" and recent past. Guess I'll just deal with it.

- On a more positive note, engage attacks are only useable once per engage! Things are still busted left and right, but no amount of map design refinement could have resisted Byleth dancing four characters almost every turn. I was really hoping they'd do that.

Leif does have something more than likely related to Movement or Leadership Stars as part of his Sync Skills, so he isn't all a miss. And there's not much you can do about Roy anyhow (Wyrmslayer is meant to give you effectiveness against Dragons before you work your way to Binding Blade).
What makes you see Engage Techniques being used only once per engage? I believe you, it makes sense, but I haven't found evidence about that quite yet.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd prefer once per map, but this works too. Because some of the stuff they allow you to pull makes me think "God, this shit is broken!!". Also, I seriously hope that with how busted some of these Engage attacks are, the enemies are actually hardy enough that the use of something that overpowered is actually justifiable.

Well, we already seen several enemies that straight up have additional health bars, and HP is definitely approaching Awakening-tier bloat, so I'm not worried about the enemy's hardiness.

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7 minutes ago, KoriCongo said:

What makes you see Engage Techniques being used only once per engage? I believe you, it makes sense, but I haven't found evidence about that quite yet.

As per the Japanese Topics page (near the bottom, just above the Twitter feed and the Expansion Pass section):

Quote

また、強力な「エンゲージ技」は、エンゲージ中の3ターンの内、一度だけ使用できます。

Also, the powerful Engage Attack can only be used once during the three turns while in the Engaged state.

 

The note about Roy I suppose is mainly to play up his implied tactician's mindset, by arming himself with a weapon to reverse his weakness, a wyrmslayer to deal with all the wyverns, and Binding Blade is the obligatory endgame regalia. We'll find out soon enough as to what his Sync skills bring to the table anyway.

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18 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

So we've got the story from Awakening (more or less)

The Stands wait no Personas Emblems from Tokyo Mirage Sessions

The gameplay and base and bonding from Fates

The gacha mechanics (although toned down a LOT) and crazy abilities from Heroes

The mini-game quirky things from Three Houses also their character designs/children in some cases

 

This game is starting to feel like the "Best of 2010's FE Marathon," and I'm okay with that. 

 

 

And really bad hair from Warriors! (Sorry, I couldn't help myself).

Edited by Fabulously Olivier
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On 12/10/2022 at 11:41 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Back to the Fates model of weaponry already, huh... I hope they do better at balancing weapons this time...

Well, we've seen nothing in regards to stat debuffs on use. They're opting for disabling doubles or crits instead, and in the case of the heavy weapon archetype for physical weapons, they also throw in moving last even on initiate on top of this, as seen with the Steel Blade and I believe the Steel Poleax too, which could be a nice balancing mechanism if their MT is much higher compared to the standard weaponry. Lower tier weapons also have downsides too, such as the training Art losing out on the Brave effect

Edited by Vexal
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7 hours ago, Vexal said:

Well, we've seen nothing in regards to stat debuffs on use. They're opting for disabling doubles or crits instead, and in the case of the heavy weapon archetype for physical weapons, they also throw in moving last even on initiate on top of this, as seen with the Steel Blade and I believe the Steel Poleax too, which could be a nice balancing mechanism if their MT is much higher compared to the standard weaponry. Lower tier weapons also have downsides too, such as the training Art losing out on the Brave effect

I'm more worried about whether deducting crit evade is still on the table. Not only that, I'm worried about whether they'll have S rank weapons again, and hit them with serious negatives to discourage their use (of course, it didn't help that those were only usable by one class).

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Well, he comes with an Lancereaver. His ultimate is an AoE of flames that's blocks enemy movement and it's buffed by using dragon units. Transcendance temporarily boosts his own level, for some reason. Also comes with an version of Miracle that procs when he has at least 30% hp left, but I'm not sure how often it can trigger

Edited by Armchair General
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  • Roy's sync skill (I'll let others translate that) saves you from dying and leaves you at 1HP when you have 30% HP or more left before the battle starts. It is unclear to me what happens if the enemy doubles you, and would kill you with the first hit.
  • His first engage weapon, as we've known, is the Lancereaver. It flips the weapon triangle so that swords beat lances and lose to axes.
    • Presumably the Lancereaver has around 80 Accuracy and 5 Crit. This matches FE6's depiction of it.
       
  • His engage skill, transcendence, passively gives a boost to every stat corresponding to 5 level ups
    • We see with the level 24 General Louis that this can breach the level cap. Made some corrections on this one because of things I hadn't noticed
       
  • His engage attack (which again I won't try to translate) is an area of effect attack on the 3 tiles in front of you. Dragon characters also hit on the three tiles in front of that. It then lights all the spaces in a 3x3 square in front of you on fire.
    • We're still not shown if those spaces are different from the ones Corrin can conjure, which deal 10 damage every turn. Allegedly Roy's are supposed to impede movement.

Most of this was known information already.

- We see what seems to be Etie on a Horse using a bow.
zIPWYHm.png

- Lapis' mystery promotion was indeed Paladin this whole time. So both Sword Fighter and Lance Cavaliers can become Paladins, assuming no reclassing was involved.

- Interestingly, a Lv 8 Bond Roy seems to give neither Dex nor Lck as stat bonuses, which were his main stats in his game. Instead, he grants HP, Str, Avo and Res.
  - Str and Avo may be references to his Fire affinity in FE6. In that same vein, he may give crit(which would mean the Lancereaver doesn't) too. We don't know yet.

Edited by Cysx
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The last two or three tweets are some info on what happens when you level up the skills for the rings, IIRC. Looks like you can fine-tune them by spending the points that you earned in combat on learning new skills for them.

Edited by Armchair General
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- General Louis has level 24 and can still level up, so Roy's Transcendence skill gives at least 5 level (the new level is shown on the UI too)

EDIT: That skill is confirmed to give exactly 5 level, and maybe 6 for Dragon units

image.png

- This looks like Rosado on a horse, though I'm not really sure

- Sword Fighter seems to be able to promote into Paladin (but can use sword only?)

- Each character has a personal skill, a class skill (which seems to be unlocked at lv 5 promoted class), and 2 equippable skills (skills bought from Emblem and maybe somewhere else)

- If enemy can double, looks like Blade weapons let them attack both times first before user can attack

- Confirmed again that bond with emblems is separated between characters (i.e. Alear has bond 3 with Marth doesn't mean everyone else also has bond 3 with Marth)

- Using Roy's Engage Attack at least doesn't trigger Smash

 

Roy's kit is pretty... unimpressive, to be honest, true to his source game self

Edited by kienquocsi
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Another weird thing with Transcendence level ups is Divine Dragon Roy!M!Alear is level 26, even though we've seen it cap at 20 before (the question is the number of levels gained, not that we're overlevelled):

image.png

image.png

 

Also, Celine's class skill is Ignis (likely the 3DS iteration of it since I don't think she's packing a lot of Def, lol)

image.png

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