Banzai's Archetypes

[Narga_Rocks]

Exactly. Compare Ike's relationships to Titania and Elincia to that of Soren. With the latter two there is a strict chain of command in place; Titania is captain, Elincia is employer. Soren, meanwhile, is more than that, and Ike often transcends what one would consider normal hierarchal boundaries.

Even look at IkexTitania and IkexSoren in PoR. In Ike and Titania, Ike remains detached the entire time, referring to any relationship with Titania only in terms of Titania's relationship to Greil. By the end of the A conversation, Titania is sobbing and all Ike can say is "Thank you for caring for my father."

In Ike and Soren, Ike explicitly refers to Soren as a friend, something he does not do with Titania. With Titania, she is a capable officer of the army. With Soren, he is a capable officer of the army... and Ike's friend.

He's a knight, not a mercenary.

So what you are saying is that men with close male friends are gay with those friends. Kay.

[General Banzai]

So what you are saying is that men with close male friends are gay with those friends. Kay.

:|

The point is that Ike has NO close female friends, at least anywhere near the calibur of his relationship with Soren. He seems to turn away from female characters who seem to show any sign of emotional attachment towards him. Elincia, Titania... he keeps them aloof, far away, while he keeps Soren close, becomes intimate in the final moments of Radiant Dawn with him in a way he has never shown intimacy towards any other character in the entire two games.

[Narga_Rocks]

:|

The point is that Ike has NO close female friends, at least anywhere near the calibur of his relationship with Soren. He seems to turn away from female characters who seem to show any sign of emotional attachment towards him. Elincia, Titania... he keeps them aloof, far away, while he keeps Soren close, becomes intimate in the final moments of Radiant Dawn with him in a way he has never shown intimacy towards any other character in the entire two games.

And that makes him gay how?

[General Banzai]

And that makes him gay how?

Would you prefer "homosocial" over "homosexual"? What I'm trying to state here is how the archetype eschews relationships with women for relationships with men. I mean, clearly, Greil/Dagda/Zealot/Gerik are not LITERALLY homoerotic.

This is a character element as old as time; one of the pivotal thematic points even in the epic of Gilgamesh.

[Loki Laufeyson]

But his interaction with Soren at the end of RD isnt that "intimate". It can be easily seen as just a friend comforting another. Its really open for interpretation and can be seen either way.

[Othin]

But his interaction with Soren at the end of RD isnt that "intimate". It can be easily seen as just a friend comforting another. Its really open for interpretation and can be seen either way.

It's as intimate as Ike ever gets with anyone by far.

And yeah, it's open to interpretation. That's pretty much the exact definition.

[Aethereal]

The term homoeroticism isn't very open to interpretation. I don't want to be pedantic, but there is nothing about Ike and Soren's relationship or interaction that is implied to be of a romantic or sexual nature. Intimacy isn't attraction.

That said, I get your point, Ogmas are more comfortable/intimate with men than women and often shun women etc.

[Onmi]

A lot of these 'Homosexual men' listed here make me laugh.

Ogma, Dieck, Zealot, Gerik and Greil. The first is said to be harbouring a crush on Sheeda, the next acts the way he acts to everyone besides who's Diecks Second supposed to be again? Rutgar? He offers the hand of friendship absolutely nothing from their supports comes of as "Homosexual undertones" Then Klein? The guy he treats like his little brother? that's just gross., the third is married and don't give me that horseshit about "He's never home and constantly with men" yes, so the people in Ilia don't die of starvation. And the second-last one, even if I accepted that hilarious shit about Marrisa, doesn't begin to justify Tethys. And Greil? You mean the guy who's married and then dies? No wait scratch that, I want you to explain it to me.

Dagda is clearly Bi, or at least put on appearances enough to have Tanya. Eh Maybe Marty was his love sugah on the side the game never goes into detail.

This whole 'Homosexual Undercurrents' shit seems so tacked on because you don't think the Ogma archetype is 'Deep' enough. I'm not even touching this whole Ike debacle, go argue over that shit till the cows come home. But I demand if you keep this as a definitive part of the archetype, then you much make the Pegasus Trio a trio with lesbian (and in some cases Sis-Con) undercurrents

Edited March 2, 2012 by Onmi

[dondon151]

He's a knight, not a mercenary. Also, he's not even in charge of the Magi Squad--Sety is.

machua and lara aren't knights; i don't think the title means much of anything when you are a rebel

also sety doesn't have the physical presence to be able to command every unit in the magi squad

it's like saying that marth leads the altean army. no shit, sherlock.

Edited March 2, 2012 by dondon151

[Dark Sage]

I have to say that Leaf is a better leader of the Magi Squad than Sety because he's actually around to lead them.

[Sunwoo]

THANK YOU. I never saw why people read too much into these things.

I've been trying to argue that for ages, not on here but on other sites (like FF.net). A lot of yaoi fangirls forget that "lack of interest in women" =/= "interest in men". For example, I'm not interested in relationships. I have guys who are friends, but I don't have "those" feelings for them and I never had. I've never been interested in any guys seriously (aside from stupid 6th grade crushes that lasted less than a year). Does that mean I'm into women? Nope, it just means that I don't want a relationship and that I -- might -- be asexual.

Seriously, I think people who immediately say that Ike is gay because of the way he interacts with Soren are missing a few key points about human interactions.

[Narga_Rocks]

I've been trying to argue that for ages, not on here but on other sites (like FF.net). A lot of yaoi fangirls forget that "lack of interest in women" =/= "interest in men". For example, I'm not interested in relationships. I have guys who are friends, but I don't have "those" feelings for them and I never had. I've never been interested in any guys seriously (aside from stupid 6th grade crushes that lasted less than a year). Does that mean I'm into women? Nope, it just means that I don't want a relationship and that I -- might -- be asexual.

Seriously, I think people who immediately say that Ike is gay because of the way he interacts with Soren are missing a few key points about human interactions.

Yeah, but is it really so surprising that Banzai is missing a few key points about human interactions?

[General Banzai]

Again, as I said before, 'homosexual' was the incorrect term, 'homosocial' is more appropriate.

I said homosexual because a lot of the characters on the list (Dagda, Ike, Raven) have often by the fandom been considered homosexual in some way or another.

But this is good, this is good. Understanding the difference between the two terms allows us to realize what is really important about the archetype. Aethereal said it very well: "Ogmas are more comfortable/intimate with men than women and often shun women etc." Perhaps sexuality isn't part of the equation; but this trend is quite apparent. Ogma harbors a crush on Caeda; but it's a secret crush that he cannot act upon. Marty is the man whom Dagda loved; Tania's mother is never mentioned. Zealot rarely sees his wife because he's out fighting so much, and even in their supports he remains cold and detached from her (go compare ZealotxJuno and ZealotxNoah... one is an intimate conversation about death, one is Zealot's stoic declaration that he must leave his family to fight. Guess which is which). Raven... is Raven. Gerik I have already talked about. Greil killed his wife and then rarely mentions her again, all the while oblivious to Titania's love for him while deeply invested in the lives of his men. Ike we have already discussed.

It's a clear pattern of hyper-masculinized men who cannot or will not form intimate connections with women, while at the same time seeking camaraderie in their men-at-arms. That is what I am pointing out here.

[Celice]

Yeah, but is it really so surprising that Banzai is missing a few key points about human interactions?

Not to generalize a Banzai here, but sadly, a lot of literary-based "research and argument" is about, at least for lower levels, trying to establish as many possible possibilities as possible which are supportable but not necessarily defendable.

Don't treat these conjectures like they're definitive answers and responses to the games, but more like, Huh, well, that certainly is interesting to think about.

[MacLovin]

This is kinda convoluted and appears to be based on a personal view.

Where are some of the missing ones.

Julius archtype

Beowulf archtype

Pent archtype

Samson and Arran archtype

Lana archtype

Gordin and Jeorge archtype?

[Sunwoo]

Greil killed his wife and then rarely mentions her again, all the while oblivious to Titania's love for him while deeply invested in the lives of his men.

Banzai ... have you ever thought that maybe Greil loved his wife so much that he couldn't stand to look at another woman again? Have you ever considered that he felt so guilty about killing her in the first place, he would have felt even more guilty if there really was another woman? MAYBE HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE TITANIA THAT WAY. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO RETURN SOMEONE'S FEELINGS IF YOU DON'T FEEL THE SAME.

Even if I can agree with you on the others (except for Zealot and Ike), I cannot let this one slide. Greil was hurting when Elena died. He doesn't talk about her because the way she died (BY HIS OWN HANDS) is so horrific perhaps he doesn't want to think about it. Maybe he doesn't want Ike and Mist asking too many questions about her, since the secret and the medallion that they carried was too precious and too dangerous. And maybe he never felt anything else for another woman besides Elena.

[Othin]

Banzai ... have you ever thought that maybe Greil loved his wife so much that he couldn't stand to look at another woman again? Have you ever considered that he felt so guilty about killing her in the first place, he would have felt even more guilty if there really was another woman? MAYBE HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE TITANIA THAT WAY. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO RETURN SOMEONE'S FEELINGS IF YOU DON'T FEEL THE SAME.

Even if I can agree with you on the others (except for Zealot and Ike), I cannot let this one slide. Greil was hurting when Elena died. He doesn't talk about her because the way she died (BY HIS OWN HANDS) is so horrific perhaps he doesn't want to think about it. Maybe he doesn't want Ike and Mist asking too many questions about her, since the secret and the medallion that they carried was too precious and too dangerous. And maybe he never felt anything else for another woman besides Elena.

So there's a solid story reason for him to be that way. Where's the problem?

[Sunwoo]

The way Banzai says it, you'd think that Elena was hardly significant in shaping who Greil was. -_- The fact that he cannot speak of her unit right before his own death speaks volumes to me. -_- Besides, he's a mercenary commander and the only fighting woman in his group is Titania. You can't really "shun" female company if no women are around you in the first place. Besides, he doesn't "shun" Titania. They interact quite a bit. Romantic interactions aren't the only type of interactions between men and women. Otherwise, my IRL friends and I would be in big trouble. >_>

[Celice]

This is kinda convoluted and appears to be based on a personal view.

Where are some of the missing ones.

Julius archtype

Beowulf archtype

Pent archtype

Samson and Arran archtype

Lana archtype

Gordin and Jeorge archtype?

The Beowulf one really made me wonder why there hasn't been more "wandering lovers" archetypes. There's a few relationships I can think of where two individuals wander in search of a specific other, finally finding them (not that Beowulf is part of this, only that he made me think). Jake and Anna are kinda like this in FE7 (you get a perspective on how they react to the distance), and Zeke and the chick from FE2 also have a little of this. It seems like this pseudo-tragic love affair hasn't gotten that much... love, from IS.

needs more TroilusxCriseyde

[General Banzai]

This is kinda convoluted and appears to be based on a personal view.

Where are some of the missing ones.

Julius archtype

Beowulf archtype

Pent archtype

Samson and Arran archtype

Lana archtype

Gordin and Jeorge archtype?

Because I'm not done listing the archetypes yet

As for Greil, something I forgot to talk about in my Ogma post that I just remembered came up. I kind of touched on it but not as much as I should have.

Despite the homosocial bent of the Ogma, that isn't to say that women have no bearing on their lives. In fact, the Ogma is often "saved" by a female from the unsavory past that haunts them. Ogma is saved by Caeda, Dagda is converted from banditry by Evayle, Raven is pacified from his anger towards House Ostia by Priscilla--these relationships exist, it is simply that they do not lead to any romantic relationship (even in the supposed "incest" of RavenxPriss, note how it's Priss who is being forward about everything).

Perhaps at one point Greil DID have an intimate connection with Elena. But that is in the past; and Greil, as you remember, has cast off his past, even to the point of changing his name. Greil is a more developed character than most of the Ogma archetype, and thus we get a fuller picture of why he acts the way he acts, but that does not change that in the scope of the game he does follow the traditional Ogma line.

One of the main points of the Ogma archetype is that haunting past; perhaps if we knew more about the pasts of the other Ogmas we would see similar reasons for their present state of mind (what we do know of their pasts, typically that they dealt in the art of killing like an occupation, remorseless over human life until a figure of innocence--embodied usually in the form of a woman but sometimes in that of a child--came to the rescue, seems to coincide with Greil's story). The very idea is that these are not characters appearing out of a vacuum but that their past experiences are critically important in shaping them, and that is what we see with Greil, and later Ike.

[-Cynthia-]

I find Zealot's inclusion on here a little questionable. He lacks the "haunting past" portion pretty definitely and while he is separated from Yuno for quite some time, the supports are pretty clear that he does care deeply for her, saying that he's homosocial is a bit off. While he does seem to have a fairly deep connection with Noah, he seems very formal in his relations with Treck- who makes up half his visible mercenary company.

Zealot also occupies a different place in society than most mercenaries, Ilia's culture seems to suggest that Zealot is some sort of leader among them while all the other Ogmas are outsiders of a sort.

[Anouleth]

Well, this one was a trainwreck. So many simple errors... Let's go over this "archetype"

-Hired by the main character but only follows "good" people

-not simply in it for the money, instead choosing to follow employers of character

-Leader of a band of mercenaries

-Unsavory past

-Jovial and fatherly

-"Always set in contrast to highly feminine characters, perhaps to emphasize his masculinity. What is interesting about this contrast, however, is how detached these relationships are, how particularly unromantic"

-Never pairs up with women

Dagda is not a leader of a group of mercenaries. In fact, he doesn't lead anything, even the Fiana Militia is commanded by Eyvel.

Dieck is not the leader of a band of mercenaries. Nor is he set in contrast to highly feminine characters, nor is he jovial and fatherly. In addition, in his support conversation he talks about cruel former employers, so it's clear that he does fight primarily for money and doesn't necessarily follow employers of character.

Zealot is also pretty clearly in it for the money. He's not a jovial, fatherly type either, and isn't hypermasculine, either. And he does have a pairing, and his A support with Yuno clearly explains that he would like nothing more than to spend the rest of his life with her. If Zealot doesn't spend a lot of time with Yuno, that's because he's trying to earn money for her. He also doesn't have an unsavoury past.

Raven doesn't fit anything. He's not a mercenary, not interested in serving employers of "good character", doesn't lead anything, isn't jovial or fatherly. He does have a relationship with a feminine woman that goes nowhere: but she's his sister. Nor is he hypermasculine: he's actually rather bishonen if anything. I guess he has the unsavoury past.

Gerik isn't hired by the main character (Innes hires him), nor is his past "unsavoury" since he's always been a mercenary. Plus, you must be nuts if you think that his relationship with Tethys isn't explicitly romantic:

Tethys: Good. You know, Chief, I'm really happy.

Gerik: Yeah, me, too. I've got a life I enjoy and good companions. All that and a wonderful woman to love. Everyone should be so lucky.

Tethys: Oh! Chief!

Gerik: Whoa! ... Hey now... This is a battlefield. This isn't the place for that...

Tethys: No one's looking...

Not only does Gerik directly say he loves Tethys, Tethys instantly responds with a mid-battle blowjob.

Marisa in a sense is depicted as masculine as well, especially in terms of sexuality:

Gerik: Speaking of which, when I first met you, you were always working alone. I remember thinking how odd that was. I figured a woman as beautiful and talented as you would have men all around her.
Marisa: Don't need 'em.

So you're saying that feminine characters can't be independent and self-reliant?

Edited March 2, 2012 by Anouleth

[Ike-Mike]

I have an anecdote that I've shared before and I'll share it again here. On the old Nsider (the official Nintendo forums before its closure Summer 2007), there was a random person on the Fire Emblem board who I don't believe any of the standard community knew about. He just materialized out of air, and after one post disappeared again. But the one thing he posted was telling beyond belief. This was near the end of Nsider; sometime shortly after PoR was released, before any of us even knew that a sequel (FERD) was coming. This man analyzed the entire story of PoR, creating a multi-paragraph post in which he discovered the duality of chaos and order in Path of Radiance. Now of course chaos/order became an obviously important theme in Radiant Dawn, directly symbolized by Yune/Ashera. In PoR, though, it was far more subtle, and when we at Nsider saw the post we laughed him off as "thinking too much" or "seeing too much into it". And then FERD came out and we reconsidered our initial jeers at the mysterious poster, who by that time had vanished again.

Where can I find this man or, more specifically, his post(s)?

I need to read them because if they really exist then all the points I have been making against Radiant Dawn's story will be completely crushed and for good reason!!

... and that's why I get bad grades in literature classes. :V

Anyway, this thread has been a nice read so far. As for the homosocial/homoerotic thing I guess the best word for it would be "bromance" but that would clash with the vocabulary used in these analyses.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Ike-Mike

[Othin]

The original Nsider was deleted a week after it was closed, four and a half years ago. People saved some posts, but I doubt you'll find that particular analysis anywhere.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Othin

[Onmi]

Well, this one was a trainwreck. So many simple errors... Let's go over this "archetype"

-Hired by the main character but only follows "good" people

-not simply in it for the money, instead choosing to follow employers of character

-Leader of a band of mercenaries

-Unsavory past

-Jovial and fatherly

-"Always set in contrast to highly feminine characters, perhaps to emphasize his masculinity. What is interesting about this contrast, however, is how detached these relationships are, how particularly unromantic"

-Never pairs up with women

Dagda is not a leader of a group of mercenaries. In fact, he doesn't lead anything, even the Fiana Militia is commanded by Eyvel.

Dieck is not the leader of a band of mercenaries. Nor is he set in contrast to highly feminine characters, nor is he jovial and fatherly. In addition, in his support conversation he talks about cruel former employers, so it's clear that he does fight primarily for money and doesn't necessarily follow employers of character.

Zealot is also pretty clearly in it for the money. He's not a jovial, fatherly type either, and isn't hypermasculine, either. And he does have a pairing, and his A support with Yuno clearly explains that he would like nothing more than to spend the rest of his life with her. If Zealot doesn't spend a lot of time with Yuno, that's because he's trying to earn money for her. He also doesn't have an unsavoury past.

Raven doesn't fit anything. He's not a mercenary, not interested in serving employers of "good character", doesn't lead anything, isn't jovial or fatherly. He does have a relationship with a feminine woman that goes nowhere: but she's his sister. Nor is he hypermasculine: he's actually rather bishonen if anything. I guess he has the unsavoury past.

Gerik isn't hired by the main character (Innes hires him), nor is his past "unsavoury" since he's always been a mercenary. Plus, you must be nuts if you think that his relationship with Tethys isn't explicitly romantic:

Tethys: Good. You know, Chief, I'm really happy.

Gerik: Yeah, me, too. I've got a life I enjoy and good companions. All that and a wonderful woman to love. Everyone should be so lucky.

Tethys: Oh! Chief!

Gerik: Whoa! ... Hey now... This is a battlefield. This isn't the place for that...

Tethys: No one's looking...

Not only does Gerik directly say he loves Tethys, Tethys instantly responds with a mid-battle blowjob.

So you're saying that feminine characters can't be independent and self-reliant?

Dieck is a rough sort of Fatherly. He mostly scolds Thany/Ward for being reckless, then when they curb their attitude he praises them. He also does have Loyalty to Roy's cause through his A Support with Lot

B Support

Dieck: Years ago...when I just became a mercenary... I was only concerned about spreading my fame.

Lott: Really... You had such times, too?

Dieck: Our squad was sent right in the middle of the enemy lines. We were supposed to go deep into Bern and kill the enemy leader. We waited underground for days...and then the time came. When we went out... dozens of arrows rained down on us.

Lott: ! Why...?

Dieck: Our employer... He purposely put us there so he could buy time for himself to escape. Our squad was decimated. They killed us all, except for me. They left me alive for torturing purposes.

Lott: ......

Dieck: We mercenaries are simply disposables in their eyes. That's the norm. If you don't think like that, you won't be able to take it...

Lott: But...that kid, Roy...

Dieck: Yeah...he's different. If only I'd known him before...

A Support

Dieck: So... Looks like we're both still alive.

Lott: Yeah.

Dieck: ...Funny, isn't it?

Lott: What is?

Dieck: We're mercenaries. We don't give a damn about who wins, all we care about are our money and our lives. We're best to just walk off rather than stay and get killed. But...it's weird. We're going through all these incredibly tough battles, and I still don't feel like running off. Roy...he makes me feel like I can die for his purpose and not have any regrets.

Lott: Of course. I feel that way, too.

---

Dieck to me always came off as someone who wasn't sure if he could trust attachment, even if he was considerably nicer than say Rutgar. He starts off Warning Thany/Ward/Klein not to do reckless things, but every time someone gets close he pushes them away (Thany, The Rigleys) While his support with Lott makes it sound as if he had met Roy earlier, he would trust more people. Rutgar is the only person he seems to reach out and want to help.

A Support

Dieck: Rutgar, you all right? You don't look well.

Rutgar: ...I'm having trouble sleeping.

Dieck: Is it about the leader of the Bulgar attack you saw the other day?

Rutgar: ...No. Well...maybe. Even after I see him dead, my nightmares still persist. At that attack... They left only me alive... The reason was because I...didn't look like a Sacae native.

Dieck: Tough to kill someone with the same colored skin. But you do have Sacaean blood in you, don't you?

Rutgar: Yes. My father's mother and my mother's father were Sacaean. Bulgar is near Bern's border, so there are a lot of mixed people there. But usually the Sacaean side is stronger in mixed childrens' appearanaces. But I... Only in me did the Bern side come out more, so I was kept alive... The people of Bulgar...they were kind to me, even though I looked different... But they...they were killed, so brutally! I must destroy Bern...! That one man isn't enough to satisfy my revenge...

Dieck: ...I thought you had some kind of burden, but now I see it clearly... Well, guess I'll go along with you.

Rutgar: I have no need for sympathy!

Dieck: Come on, you know how strong I am, right? If you really want to take on Bern, then there's no better ally than me. What do you say?

Rutgar: ...Suit yourself.

Dieck: And so I will. Well then, let's go, partner!

*Dieck leaves*

Rutgar: Dieck... I'm sorry.

I think this might be where Diecks fatherly instinct is, he knows Rutgars hurting, he wants to help him. Of course since FE6 is LOLNOENDINGS for everyone but Roy, we can never tell where this went. But I think it's pretty consistent with how Dieck acts.

Thany: Dieck! See how I've been adjusting my pace to the others lately?

Dieck: Yeah... But you shouldn't trust them too much, either.

Thany: Huh? That's different than what you were saying before!

Dieck: What I said then was a guideline for fighting. What I'm saying now is a guideline for a mercenary.

Thany: For a mercenary...

Dieck: A mercenary has to fend for himself. No one's gonna be looking out for you. You've got to be skeptical. You should even be wary that I might be giving out orders just so I can ensure my own safety.

Thany: That's not a problem.

Dieck: Eh?

Thany: You wouldn't be thinking things like that.

Dieck: You never know.

Thany: I know. So do Lott and Ward. That's why we can entrust our lives to you.

Dieck: ...Don't get cocky, kid.

Thany: Teehee...

Dieck is clearly trying to throw up the aura that he can't be trusted, that a mercenary has to fend for themselves. On it's own, it really doesn't carry the idea that he's trying to push others away until you look at the Clarine and Klein supports

Klein: Dieck, I told you, I'm not a child any more. Until now, I've been leading a squad and fighting in the front all the time.

Dieck: Sorry, but you're still 'Little Master Klein' in my eyes. If I let you get hurt, I wouldn't know what to say to Lord Pent.

Klein: ...If you're being so considerate, then you should come back to our mansion. Dieck, when this war ends, do you want to return home with me? Father and Mother would certainly appreciate it...

Dieck: Klein, I appreciate your consideration. But if you really care about your household, then you should stop chatting with a lowly mercenary like me. It won't be good for your future.

Klein: !? What...

Dieck: You're only talking to me like this because we're in a war. Got it?

Klein: ......

Dieck tries to push away someone who has an established relationship with him. Both because he considers himself so lowly that it would shame the Rigleys, and because he doesn't quite trust people.

Clarine: !!!! You filthy...! Listen in awe! I am Clarine of the Rigley family of Etruria!

Dieck: What? Then you're Lord Pent's...

Clarine: Do you know my father?

Dieck: Klein's little sister...

Clarine: ! You know Klein, too!? Who...are you...?

Dieck: No, it's nothing. Forget it.

Clarine: No, it's not nothing!

Dieck: Clarine, was it? Be careful out there.

*Dieck leaves*

Clarine: What!? Wait! ...Who is he..

Dieck: Fine. Well, Miss Clarine, I don't really approve of girls going around chasing after guys' asses.

Clarine: What!? You have such a foul mouth...!

Dieck: Exactly. You don't want to be around someone like me, now, do you?

Clarine: ...I will not be fooled. You are just trying to drive me away.

Dieck: Geez, she's not cute at all... Are you really part of that family?

Clarine is the one to outright state it of course, Dieck picks the words he thinks will push someone away, now you could interpret this to mean "He just wants Clarine to shove off because only Lance really puts up with her" but given the context of his other supports, I think my theory of fearing connection (well not fearing so much as not trusting) works.