B.Leu Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) You know what ? I know where to start the comparison with Naruto. it show a lot of promise, lot of interesting questions, show a lot of problems, yet, they never try to go into anything, and everything just conveniently resolve itself. It's pathetic Kamui, like Naruto, is supposed to be some sort of saint that should stop war, yet, what did he do actually ? No seriously what did he truly do in this plot ?... This whole IK's treaty bs is so much like how every ninja village of Naruto become insta-friend and forgot that they hated each other in the first place. Kind of like Radiant Dawn too, while I think about it. Edited July 30, 2015 by B.Leu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Fighting Nazi Germany didn't make the Western Allies and the Soviet Union friends. As for Naruto, to be frank it went downhill early on. At least at the Chunin Exams. Edited July 30, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 You know what ? I know where to start the comparison with Naruto. it show a lot of promise, lot of interesting questions, show a lot of problems, yet, they never try to go into anything, and everything just conveniently resolve itself. It's pathetic Kamui, like Naruto, is supposed to be some sort of saint that should stop war, yet, what did he do actually ? No seriously what did he truly do in this plot ?... This whole IK's treaty bs is so much like how every ninja village of Naruto become insta-friend and forgot that they hated each other in the first place. Kind of like Radiant Dawn too, while I think about it. B.Leu you jerk I knew you bring up Naruto!! Kamui goes like this Birthright: well I'm gonna leave the people who raised me for my "blood kin" who I've only known for maybe three days tops , Comquest : I'm gonna follow Aqua's pretty dumb ass plans and not tell my foster siblings who will most likely believe me cause I've been raised with them my whole lives and gonna go to my clearly possessed by a very evil and pissed off force that really wants to kill me and let him shoot me POINT BLANK nearly killing me and shattering my sword. IK: well I've made the smart choice to not deal with the family feud what's that Aqua well I don't know if I should trust your plans after how they went last time, Jump off a cliff with you? SURE THING wow ok so this Anankos guy is behind everything but why didn't you just say this before? Aqua: cause there is a curse that'll kill you if you talk about this place on the outside world BTW were both cursed. Kamui: wait if you knew this all before we could of done something about but you didn't?! Aqua: Yep but look on the bright side. Kamui: Everyone I love died twice. Aqua: you and I can finally bang after you being blueballed twice! Kamui when you put it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisa180 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Actually, the post-IK treaty between the two nations in IK is less 'we fought together and are now friends' (thought that plays a role) and more 'there's probably a better way we can go about this without fighting.' I'm not articulating this well, so let me explain. By the end of IK, both the First Princes, Ryoma and Xander, have assumed rulership of their respective countries. Of the two, Xander has made it clear in a few of his Supports that his country comes first, even before his own family. This is part of the reason he's so insistently loyal to his father. He thinks Garon still has Nohr's best interests at heart. Listening into the false Garon's declaration to destroy the world, as cheap as it was, informs him that is very much not the case. That's one of the things about Xander. His prime motivation is what's best for Nohr, and after Garon proved he didn't share that interest, Xander officially started taking things into his own hands. Another notable trait is that he himself doesn't harbor much animosity towards Hoshido. Hence, he was willing to make an alliance with Hoshido if that would be what was best for Nohr. Contrast Ryoma, who does hold a lot of animosty towards Nohr, for a lot of justifiable reasons. While Xander might be more willing for peace given sufficient reason, Ryoma would not be. That's the downside of his more hot-blooded nature. The upside is, however, is that he's also more openly emotional then Xander, and closer to his siblings as a result (In Camilla's Support, Xander mentions that he keeps a step of distance from his siblings so that emotion doesn't interefere with him doing what needs to be done for his country. But as that same Support shows, he still deeply cares for them). What this pretty much means is that Ryoma is more open to emotional persuasion by Corrin, the long-missing younger sibling he still loves dearly despite the long seperation. Ryoma never gives up on the latter. In the Nohr route, he goes so far as to try blackmailing Corrin into defecting back to Hoshido. When they make the alliance before entering the Invisible Kingdom, it was pretty much this (this is pretty much my impression from the IK summaries): Xander had learned the invasion was not 'justified' as he had originally believed, and so is willing to cease hostilities, and more importantly assist with the 'true enemy' which he's been given to believe would threaten both countries. Now, Ryoma had every reason to reject it, to remain angry. Except for Corrin. It isn't just that they want peace, they still hold a lot of affection towards Marx, and just wants them to give peace *a chance.* Hence, Ryoma does it as much for Corrin's sake as anything else. Their Support actually address how the Hoshidans still don't fully trust the Nohrians, and makes it clear that while the latter might be shedding its aggression, it won't be quite so easy for the Hoshidans to forgive and forget. And while I wouldn't say the two princes are close friends, exactly, by the end of the Support its clear they've developed a healthy respect for each other (especially on Ryoma's end, which was significant). Another thing is that both of them realize they don't have to repeat what their predecessors did. Especially on Xander's end. The treaty may be unprecedented, given the history of both countries, But the critical thing is that both Princes are willing to try. I would not expect things to be perfect afterwards, given their Support, but the treaty is a very important start. You also have to consider the Invisible Kingdom itself becomes a third force in the ending. Both Hoshido and Nohr form one of the most natural kind of alliances with it, given how Corrin is the sibling of both the Princes. But that doesn't change the fact that the addition of the IK with Corrin as the ruler alters the geopolitical landscape, probably significantly. And I've lost my point in this paragraph, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Like I said, I wouldn't call Fates' narrative better than ME3's. At least you don't need DLC to stop the Reapers. *slaps* We don't mention that abomination, ever, in any context! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Kamui: wait if you knew this all before we could of done something about but you didn't? Aqua: Because, we needed something to get people to buy this DLC. Edited July 30, 2015 by TheWerdna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) *slaps* We don't mention that abomination, ever, in any context! RED GREEN AND BLUE SHEPARD Aqua: Because, we needed something to get people to buy this DLC. Well played Edited July 30, 2015 by Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm sorry but I'm gonna call BS on Fates's story being worse than Awakenings. This topic feels more like hype backlash than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm sorry but I'm gonna call BS on Fates's story being worse than Awakenings. This topic feels more like hype backlash than anything else. Play it and you'll see what most of us mean the thing that most likely upset people the most is how much wasted potential the story line had not saying it had to be god tier storytelling but alot of the story is very broken riddled with holes but the gameplay is pretty sweet Nohr kicks your ass while Ik can especially in higher difficulties with how the maps and spikes work be complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm sorry but I'm gonna call BS on Fates's story being worse than Awakenings. This topic feels more like hype backlash than anything else. I actually liked Awakening's story, or at the very least don't see it as "bad" per say. It's story was incredibly basic and barebones, with is actual interesting ideas never being explored at all and just glossed over. I've never understood how some people seem to act like Awakening had "the worst story ever", since dear lord there are far far far far **many "far"s later** far far far worse stories out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I actually liked Awakening's story, or at the very least don't see it as "bad" per say. It's story was incredibly basic and barebones, with is actual interesting ideas never being explored at all and just glossed over. I've never understood how some people seem to act like Awakening had "the worst story ever", since dear lord there are far far far far **many "far"s later** far far far worse stories out there. ME3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) ME3 As I said before, we don't speak of that abomination. (In all honestly, I actually liked most of ME3. Its just that the ending effectively ruined the entire game) Edited July 30, 2015 by TheWerdna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 At least ME3 (maybe unintentionally) tried to knock Shepard down a peg, considering how he can't Paragon his way out of picking from the Crucible's options. Yeah it was shoddily written, but ME has had shaky writing from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm sorry but I'm gonna call BS on Fates's story being worse than Awakenings. This topic feels more like hype backlash than anything else. If there is hype backlash, that would be the fault of IS. They are the ones who hyped the story and their new writer. The route splits and "what if" premise of the game made it sound like a good story would be one of the big priorities of the game but all we see here is squandered potential. It's telling that the least ambitious story of the three routes (Birthright) draws the least amount of criticism. This is not to say people wanted a typical story, just that it's better than the trainwreck we got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 If there is hype backlash, that would be the fault of IS. They are the ones who hyped the story and their new writer. The route splits and "what if" premise of the game made it sound like a good story would be one of the big priorities of the game but all we see here is squandered potential. It's telling that the least ambitious story of the three routes (Birthright) draws the least amount of criticism. This is not to say people wanted a typical story, just that it's better than the trainwreck we got. Honestly, I would have preferred it if we just got another Awakening, where they played it painfully safe with the plot. Better than the trainwreck we got. (Now, I would have preferred an actual interesting and we;; executed story over either of the aforementioned options. Its just that a safe but bland story is at least preferable to one that's a mess) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) At least ME3 (maybe unintentionally) tried to knock Shepard down a peg, considering how he can't Paragon his way out of picking from the Crucible's options. Yeah it was shoddily written, but ME has had shaky writing from the start. Mass effect one I'd say was best with story and dialogue cause Shepard could actually be neutral about things and being renegade made sense at times and it wasn't cartoon evil like ME2 was that being said characters interactions and gameplay were much better in 2 and Three never happened. Edited July 30, 2015 by Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisa180 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry but I'm gonna call BS on Fates's story being worse than Awakenings. This topic feels more like hype backlash than anything else. I actually liked Awakening's story, or at the very least don't see it as "bad" per say. It's story was incredibly basic and barebones, with is actual interesting ideas never being explored at all and just glossed over. I've never understood how some people seem to act like Awakening had "the worst story ever", since dear lord there are far far far far **many "far"s later** far far far worse stories out there.Pretty much what TheWerdna says here.The main attraction of Fates for me is that is lends itself incredibly well to the Pokemon crossover I'm writing. Unfortunately, that comes with the caveat that the plot changes fairly radically after a certain point, and the 'Fire Emblem' in my story is even a different artifact then the 'Fire Emblem' in Fates. Another one is the fact it introduced canon daughters for Owain and Inigo, but that's more for the Awakening fic potential. The Invisible Kingdom story, to me, actually seems interesting and I personally don't mind the 'You can't talk about the Invisible Kingdom to others outside it or you'll disappear.' It seemed less stupid and more an incredibly smart thing for the big bad Anakos (who imposed the curse) to do. 'Big bad orchestrating both sides' kind of plots tend to go along the lines of 'someone inevitably finds out, tells others, eventually brings the whole things crashing down.' Making it so that if others find out, they can't even say anything, strikes me as Dangerously Genre Savvy and I actually enjoy it. It gives that plot type a nice, refreshing twist. But then I'm weird like that. Yet ironically the one path I actually want to do is sealed behind DLC, which requires buying one of the paths I have zero interest in. The existence of the third path, and its revelations, are a symptom of the plot problems. So is the fact that some important plot revelations (such as the story behind the Awakening kids) is also gated behind DLC (Invisible History). You don't put explanations and patches for the plot in side-stories. You're supposed to write them into the main story, where they belong. I really can't emphasize enough how much this rubs me the wrong way. Edited July 30, 2015 by Alisa180 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think we should at least wait until the games get localized before casting judgement. I don't intend to sound offensive but I've heard Japanese players aren't really picky about the story-line of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warchiefwilliams Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think we should at least wait until the games get localized before casting judgement. I don't intend to sound offensive but I've heard Japanese players aren't really picky about the story-line of games. That is what I am trying to do, reserve judgement until I am able to get my hands on a product I will understand. Unfortunately, I do not know what they can change during localization without drastically changing the finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think we should at least wait until the games get localized before casting judgement. I don't intend to sound offensive but I've heard Japanese players aren't really picky about the story-line of games. Dude you'd be surprised some of the most salty people I've seen are Japanese gamers they make /v/ look positive but like anyone taste vary as were all people with our own views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Geargia Gateway Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I haven't the slightest clue what goes on in the story (I guess I've been dodging spoilers pretty well...) cause I see spoiler tags everywhere, drop in the thread anyway and get lost about what the hell goes on but I don't really care to bad. So I'll save my thoughts about what I think of Fates for the western release, but in the mean time, I wanna hear from other people if the story is good or not (Should we make a poll?). Is the story really bad, tolerable, or rather nice? It's just I wanna hear it straight. Cause I dig and judge pretty deep with my games. Edited July 30, 2015 by Great Geargia Gateway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I haven't the slightest clue what goes on in the story (I guess I've been dodging spoilers pretty well...) cause I see spoiler tags everywhere, drop in the thread anyway and get lost about what the hell goes on but I don't really care to bad. So I'll save my thoughts about what I think of Fates for the western release, but in the mean time, I wanna hear from other people if the story is good or not (Should we make a poll?). Is the story really bad, tolerable, or rather nice? It's just I wanna hear it straight. Cause I dig and judge pretty deep with my games. Go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Leu Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Pepper, it's not my fault if the story is similar to Naruto. :p Fighting Nazi Germany didn't make the Western Allies and the Soviet Union friends. Good thing I'm not talking about it then. XD Alisa180, what you said prove my point exactly. The plot is flat out dumb and needlessly complicated for no reasons, and not enough complicated when it's actually needed. If the story is as developped as you said, why isn't it talked about in the game, hm ? No offense, but going into overly-complicated explanations and justifications is not going to make the plot any smarter. Just like it won't change the fact that the plot is flat out stupid. :/ Also, Marx/Ryouma support was bullcrap and obviously Hoshido-biased. Seriously, might as well call Nohr Slytherin and Hoshido Gryffindor. The whole plot is just like Naruto. Convenient. Plot device. Deus ex machina. Friendship is magic, Support or not. (In all honestly, I actually liked most of ME3. Its just that the ending effectively ruined the entire game) As if recent Bioware games were good story-wise in the first place. :p Dude you'd be surprised some of the most salty people I've seen are Japanese gamers they make /v/ look positive but like anyone taste vary as were all people with our own views. That much ? :o Then again, shame on us, expecting a decent story ! I'm so ashamed of myself... Edited July 30, 2015 by B.Leu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Pepper, it's not my fault if the story is similar to Naruto. :p Good thing I'm not talking about it then. XD Alisa180, what you said prove my point exactly. The plot is flat out dumb and needlessly complicated for no reasons, and not enough complicated when it's actually needed. If the story is as developped as you said, why isn't it talked about in the game, hm ? No offense, but going into overly-complicated explanations and justifications is not going to make the plot any smarter. Just like it won't change the fact that the plot is flat out stupid. :/ Also, Marx/Ryouma support was bullcrap and obviously Hoshido-biased. Seriously, might as well call Nohr Slytherin and Hoshido Gryffindor. The whole plot is just like Naruto. Convenient. Plot device. Deus ex machina. Friendship is magic, Support or not. As if recent Bioware games were good story-wise in the first place. :p That much ? :o Then again, shame on us, expecting a decent story ! I'm so ashamed of myself... I'm on to you B.Leu trolling me with Naruto's mess of a story, yea alot of Japanese gamers have been super salt about Fates storyline ripping it pretty hard this from a bud from Osaka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I'm on to you B.Leu trolling me with Naruto's mess of a story, yea alot of Japanese gamers have been super salt about Fates storyline ripping it pretty hard this from a bud from Osaka. Let's not make our disappointment over Fates even worse by bringing up a story that shoots itself in the foot even more. Anyway, I'm glad to hear people are complaining about the storyline in Fates - they did TRY to improve the story, and took complaints about Awakening seriously, so I hope some criticism will help them make the next game better. If people just ate all the fan service and deus ex machina up, then Intelligent Systems might not realize the story is an inexcusable mess. What exactly did your friend say? I know one person can't represent the entire Japanese fanbase, but I am curious regardless. Edited July 30, 2015 by Thane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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