Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[shadowofchaos]

Definitely not ranking this week.

That -30% calculation seems to be throwing me off a bit.

Is it -30% final damage before reduction application?

[Othin]

2 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Definitely not ranking this week.

That -30% calculation seems to be throwing me off a bit.

Is it -30% final damage before reduction application?

It's 30% of the target's Def/Res. So if a character has 30 Def, they'll have 39 on a fort.

[Arcanite]

14 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Definitely not ranking this week.

That -30% calculation seems to be throwing me off a bit.

Is it -30% final damage before reduction application?

I'll use my Xander example:

My Lyn wants to hit a Fury Xander on a defense tile:

Lyn has 44 Attack

Fury Xander has 40 defense

40 * 1.3 (from defense tile) = 52 defense

44 - 52 = 0 because Lyn's atttack is too low :(

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I re-did my run and got 4,666 points >:D

EDIT:

This run wasn't deathless, but I'm currently rank 13,999 (lol)

No defense wins!

Edited May 11, 2017 by Arcanite

[Vaximillian]

3 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Also, I re-did my run and got 4,666 points >:D

kekeke~

[Arcanite]

3 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

kekeke~

666 > 766

We're both getting promoted anyway so your score means nothing ha! Whatever I need to make myself feel better

[Vaximillian]

Just now, Arcanite said:

! Whatever I need to make myself feel better

get a defence win?

I'm positively confused that I actually got a defence win. Confused and euphoric.

[shadowofchaos]

17 minutes ago, Othin said:

It's 30% of the target's Def/Res. So if a character has 30 Def, they'll have 39 on a fort.

 

16 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I'll use my Xander example:

My Lyn wants to hit a Fury Xander on a defense tile:

Lyn has 44 Attack

Fury Xander has 40 defense

40 * 1.3 (from defense tile) = 52 defense

44 - 52 = 0 because Lyn's atttack is too low :(

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ah, so the forts are more beneficial to larger def/res stats.

No wonder Linda wasn't doing anything to Elfie (Fates armorknight) until she got off the fort.

[Elieson]

34 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

40 * 1.3 (from defense tile) = 52 defense

 

do Spurs and things like Armored Blow calculate before or after the multiplier?

[MrSmokestack]

3 hours ago, Elieson said:

do Spurs and things like Armored Blow calculate before or after the multiplier?

Think of the fort buff like weapon advantage, since they're both multipliers (is this confirmed yet?).

So Spurs, Hones, and inbattle buffs like Blows would apply first

 

EDIT: Bold

Edited May 11, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, Elieson said:

do Spurs and things like Armored Blow calculate before or after the multiplier?

Never tested it yet

You'd have to ask Ice dragorn!

Edit: Smoke FTW

Edited May 11, 2017 by Arcanite

[Clogon]

3 hours ago, chirp said:

That would require high ATK, high SPD high DEF and high RES.

No, it doesn't. They just need to create stronger skills/weapons like something that preloads Miracle.

[Ice Dragon]

16 minutes ago, Elieson said:

do Spurs and things like Armored Blow calculate before or after the multiplier?

15 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Think of the fort buff like weapon advantage, since they're both multipliers (is this confirmed yet?).

So Spurs and inbattle buffs would apply last, while out of battle buffs like Hone would play off of the fort buffs, presumably.

Based on how other buffs work, I'd assume the fortification multiplier applies after buffs are factored in, so 30 Def with Ward Def on a fortification is (30 + 6) × 1.3 = 46 Def.

Also, since the fortification multiplier isn't part of your actual Def/Res stat, note that special skills like Bonfire and Moonbow do not take the fortification multiplier into account, just like how Draconic Aura doesn't take effective damage and weapon triangle multipliers into account.

[Eridras]

11 hours ago, ignis_z said:

Aha u use pivot, or similar habilities?

Anna has nothing, Azura obviously has Sing, Reinhardt has Draw Back, and Eldigan has Swap.

[MrSmokestack]

37 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, since the fortification multiplier isn't part of your actual Def/Res stat, note that special skills like Bonfire and Moonbow do not take the fortification multiplier into account, just like how Draconic Aura doesn't take effective damage and weapon triangle multipliers into account.

Forgot to mention this. Weapon effectiveness from skills like Poison Dagger doesn't affect proc damage either, so it seems multipliers generally behave the same way. Has fort buff behavior been tested yet, just to confirm it?

[DehNutCase]

4 hours ago, chirp said:

That would require high ATK, high SPD high DEF and high RES. Maybe if Hector and Linde had a baby...

Actually that character is called Odin: Dude has the bulk to survive basically anything except a slow ass mage/axe with B-Tomebreaker, and B-Tomebreaker is rare as all hells thanks to being on a GHB unit. Slap him full of buffs, give him Close Counter, sit him on a fort, and everyone* who attacks him dies.

 

*For the definition of 'Everyone' where only ~100 die to QR, fully buffed Odin, but +Def Odin dies only to L&D Nino, so he has that going for him. (+Spd dies to Raven.)

Edited May 11, 2017 by DehNutCase

[azurrys]

Achieved a new personal best with my horse team! Time for some proper stats.

Score: 4,782
Tier: 11
Rank: 167 (3:06 AM @ GMT +8, 11/5/2017)

Team (level 40):
5* +Atk/-Spd Reinhardt (152; +Death Blow 3, Quick Riposte 2, Draw Back, HP+3 Seal)
5* +Spd/-Res Titania (166 without Fury, 170 with; +Fury 1, Fortify Cavalry, Speed+1 Seal)
5* neutral Xander (170 without Fury, 178 with; +Fury 2, Quick Riposte 2, Hone Cavalry, Swap, Bonfire)
5* neutral Cecilia (156; +Triangle Adept 3, Iceberg, Hone Cavalry, Attack+1 Seal)
Total BST: 644 (w/o Fury)

Titania still has some skills to learn (Fury 2 and Dragon Gaze, haven't gotten Dragon Fang on her yet) and I could probably push for slightly higher scores if I slapped Vantage 3 back on Reinhardt too, but I'm happy enough with my score as it is. Next week I'll probably run Eldigan over Titania for the extra points even if it means running 2 swords, since he has a little BST on her thanks to Mystletainn and he's fully skill inherited. (Weapons do count in BST calculations, right?)

Unfortunately still no new defence wins despite setting Titania as lead. Maybe people are still being scared off? I was hoping to get another defence win before the mage gauntlet starts tomorrow since I want to set Reinhardt as lead then to help everyone out. My only defence win is still worth 288, so hopefully my horses will score another before the week's up.

Edited May 11, 2017 by azurrys

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, azurrys said:

Achieved a new personal best with my horse team! Time for some proper stats.

Score: 4,782
Tier: 11
Rank: 167 (3:06 AM @ GMT +8, 11/5/2017)

Team (level 40):
5* +Atk/-Spd Reinhardt (152; +Death Blow 3, Quick Riposte 2, Draw Back, HP+3 Seal)
5* +Atk/-Res Titania (166 without Fury, 170 with; +Fury 1, Fortify Cavalry, Speed+1 Seal)
5* neutral Xander (170 without Fury, 178 with; +Fury 2, Quick Riposte 2, Hone Cavalry, Swap, Bonfire)
5* neutral Cecilia (156; +Triangle Adept 3, Iceberg, Hone Cavalry, Attack+1 Seal)
Total BST: 644 (w/o Fury)

Titania still has some skills to learn (Fury 2 and Dragon Gaze, haven't gotten Dragon Fang on her yet) and I could probably push for slightly higher scores if I slapped Vantage 3 back on Reinhardt too, but I'm happy enough with my score as it is. Next week I'll probably run Eldigan over Titania for the extra points even if it means running 2 swords, since he has a little BST on her thanks to Mystletainn and he's fully skill inherited. (Weapons do count in BST calculations, right?)

Unfortunately still no new defence wins despite setting Titania as lead. Maybe people are still being scared off? I was hoping to get another defence win before the mage gauntlet starts tomorrow since I want to set Reinhardt as lead then to help everyone out. My only defence win is still worth 288, so hopefully my horses will score another before the week's up.

You can probably just set Rein as lead when gauntlet starts and not worry too much. I personally just click advanced every single time. (If people keep dodging, eventually they'll run out of swords, meaning they can't dodge anymore anyway.)

(You can also lead with Anna, and just hope your team carries 3v4.)

[azurrys]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

You can probably just set Rein as lead when gauntlet starts and not worry too much. I personally just click advanced every single time. (If people keep dodging, eventually they'll run out of swords, meaning they can't dodge anymore anyway.)

(You can also lead with Anna, and just hope your team carries 3v4.)

That's what I do as well, but on one occasion I ran from a Reinhardt myself while fresh from the experience of getting my streak ended by a cavalry team. Still, I'm sure someone will pick the team eventually. My Anna is only 4* level 29, so I guess those would be some... interesting... matchups. I'll slap her in there for the day and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

28 minutes ago, azurrys said:

Achieved a new personal best with my horse team! Time for some proper stats.

Score: 4,782
Tier: 11
Rank: 167 (3:06 AM @ GMT +8, 11/5/2017)

Team (level 40):
5* +Atk/-Spd Reinhardt (152; +Death Blow 3, Quick Riposte 2, Draw Back, HP+3 Seal)
5* +Spd/-Res Titania (166 without Fury, 170 with; +Fury 1, Fortify Cavalry, Speed+1 Seal)
5* neutral Xander (170 without Fury, 178 with; +Fury 2, Quick Riposte 2, Hone Cavalry, Swap, Bonfire)
5* neutral Cecilia (156; +Triangle Adept 3, Iceberg, Hone Cavalry, Attack+1 Seal)
Total BST: 644 (w/o Fury)

Titania still has some skills to learn (Fury 2 and Dragon Gaze, haven't gotten Dragon Fang on her yet) and I could probably push for slightly higher scores if I slapped Vantage 3 back on Reinhardt too, but I'm happy enough with my score as it is. Next week I'll probably run Eldigan over Titania for the extra points even if it means running 2 swords, since he has a little BST on her thanks to Mystletainn and he's fully skill inherited. (Weapons do count in BST calculations, right?)

Unfortunately still no new defence wins despite setting Titania as lead. Maybe people are still being scared off? I was hoping to get another defence win before the mage gauntlet starts tomorrow since I want to set Reinhardt as lead then to help everyone out. My only defence win is still worth 288, so hopefully my horses will score another before the week's up.

Weapons no longer count in BST calculations. They count toward whatever skills contribute toward point values, though I don't think there's a difference in scoring between Mystletainn and Emerald Axe+.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Weapons no longer count in BST calculations. They count toward whatever skills contribute toward point values, though I don't think there's a difference in scoring between Mystletainn and Emerald Axe+.

5* "+" weapons cost 300 SP while Mystletainn presumably costs 400 SP like the other ultimate weapons, so if SP costs of skills are factored into scoring, I'd expect it to be worth more.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

If, yeah. I keep hearing conflicting reports that it's strictly rank of the skill (making, say, Aether, objectively superior to Luna for scoring) or by base SP cost. One thing that muddies things and seems to skew toward strictly ranks is Drag Back costs very little SP yet seems to keep a unit's point value from tanking compared to running something like Vantage 3. Too bad both methods aren't very easy to verify.

[Tybrosion]

My score of 4,806 currently has me at rank 686 in Tier 14 with one defense win (574). Hopefully I'll be able to stay in the top 5% by the end of the season so I can get bumped up to Tier 17.

Team (Offense)

5* Zephiel: Eckesachs, Pivot, Bonfire, HP +5, Wary Fighter 3, Hone Atk 3, HP +3

5* Eldigan, +1 (+HP, -DEF): Mystletainn, Reposition, Moonbow, Fury 3, Brash Assault 2, Hone Spd 3, Attack +1

5* Nino (+ATK, -RES): Gronnblade+, Draw Back, Draconic Aura, Fury 3, Desperation 3, Hone Atk 3, Speed +1

5* Ephraim (+SPD, -DEF): Siegmund, Rally Defense, Moonbow, Attack +3, Seal Def 3, Fortify Res 3

Brash Assault on Eldigan is just a placeholder until I decide on something better. The same goes for Seal Def on Ephraim and to a lesser extent Attack +3. My defense team also uses Zephiel and Nino in addition to Ninian (Neutral; Light Breath+, Dance, New Moon, Defiant Atk 2, Escape Route 3, Fortify Def 2) and 5* Klein, +1 (+ATK, -RES; Brave Bow+, Draw Back, Luna, Death Blow 3, Wings of Mercy 2, Threaten Def 3). Yes, I know I've been lazy about working on Ninian's skill set please don't judge me. Though Defiant Atk is also just a placeholder.

[azurrys]

@Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi@Othin

Thanks for the responses! Guess people still need some time to crack the new arena system's scoring. Since Eldigan has all his skill slots filled out he'll unquestionably yield me higher scores whether or not Mystletainn factors in, but if I finish off my deathless run early next week I might use my remaining swords or some crests to do some comparisons between Titania and Eldigan when they have otherwise same-level skills. Don't know if that'll go anywhere considering the typical point variance, but it might be fun anyway.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

Forgot to mention this. Weapon effectiveness from skills like Poison Dagger doesn't affect proc damage either, so it seems multipliers generally behave the same way. Has fort buff behavior been tested yet, just to confirm it?

I've confirmed Bonfire and New Moon damage in my calculations thread.

I haven't confirmed how fortifications interact with buffs yet, but I suppose I could whip up my Spur Def 3 Robin (M) to see.

[DehNutCase]

42 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

If, yeah. I keep hearing conflicting reports that it's strictly rank of the skill (making, say, Aether, objectively superior to Luna for scoring) or by base SP cost. One thing that muddies things and seems to skew toward strictly ranks is Drag Back costs very little SP yet seems to keep a unit's point value from tanking compared to running something like Vantage 3. Too bad both methods aren't very easy to verify.

Drag back is only 50 SP less than Vantage 3 (150 SP vs. 200 SP). Vantage costs more to learn, because of its pre-reqs, but the actual skill doesn't cost all that much more than drag-back.

Edited May 11, 2017 by DehNutCase