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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

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I'm not expecting much from seasonal refines, especially since there are so many seasonal units to go through even in book 1.

Book 1 seasonals:
4 Spring units (Chrom, Lucina, Xander, Camilla)
4 Wedding units (Lyn, Cordelia, Caeda, Charlotte)
8 Summer units (ATiki, Robin, Frederick, Gaius, Corrin, Xander, Elise, Leo)
4 Special Dancer units (Azura, Olivia, Shigure, Inigo)
4 Halloween units (Nowi, Henry, Sakura, Jakob)

If they're only going to release 1 seasonal refine per month, it'll take more than a year to get through all book 1 seasonal units assuming IS even bothers to give them all refineable Prfs/refines for their Prfs which leads me to believe that this is pretty much a one-time thing since Halloween Nowi is the only book 1 seasonal with a Prf weapon (Performing Arts Azura has one, too, but she's a dancer and since the book 1 dancers -- Olivia, Ninian, Azura -- still haven't gotten refines, uhhh...)

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1 minute ago, Roflolxp54 said:

I'm not expecting much from seasonal refines, especially since there are so many seasonal units to go through even in book 1.

Book 1 seasonals:
4 Spring units (Chrom, Lucina, Xander, Camilla)
4 Wedding units (Lyn, Cordelia, Caeda, Charlotte)
8 Summer units (ATiki, Robin, Frederick, Gaius, Corrin, Xander, Elise, Leo)
4 Special Dancer units (Azura, Olivia, Shigure, Inigo)
4 Halloween units (Nowi, Henry, Sakura, Jakob)

If they're only going to release 1 seasonal refine per month, it'll take more than a year to get through all book 1 seasonal units assuming IS even bothers to give them all refineable Prfs/refines for their Prfs which leads me to believe that this is pretty much a one-time thing since Halloween Nowi is the only book 1 seasonal with a Prf weapon (Performing Arts Azura has one, too, but she's a dancer and since the book 1 dancers -- Olivia, Ninian, Azura -- still haven't gotten refines, uhhh...)

I think it's no coincidence that they started with the one Gen 1 non-dancer seasonal without a prf. It's possible that they'll give the seasonals without prfs some sort of Redux treatment (we'll have to see), but I don't expect them to get prfs anytime soon.

The next seasonal with a prf is Valentine's Hector, who they'll probably skip over, making Spring Catria and Spring Sharena the most likely next candidates.

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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

Also I dont know why you expected Staff refines when currently only 5* exclusive staves have refines in the first place.

Maribelle could appear at anytime, I guess 

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I'm hoping they don't exclusively give upgrades to seasonals with prfs. There's so many others that need it. They could simply give two seasonals a refine instead of one, that'd help.

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Halloween Nowi was a surprise. We finally have a seasonal unit being part of a weapon update. Guess she'll be part of the New Power banner as well which I don't remember if a seasonal unit outside of very special occasions has happened.

What is also surprising or perhaps not as this point is Hector is still not part of a weapon update. Excluding the Black Knight because once again, Distant Counter units, and correct me if I am wrong, we have gone through every gen 1 armor except for Hector where amusingly enough, none of them were 5*-exclusive units like Hector. We had crazy things like Arden getting a Meisterschwert to the makes sense, enemy phase weapons of Draug, Gwendolyn, and Sheena, and all right, but has left some wanting with Effie and Zephiel who was part of an early weapon update unlike the others. Anyway, moving onto the point, what are they afraid of? What can't they figure out?

Roy then Faye were given Quick Riposte 5 with a HP range of >= 50% for their unique refinements where Roy is a launch, 3* to 4* sword infantry and Faye a 5*-exclusive who did not end up with a prf Firesweep Bow which would not have meshed well with her stat spread. Between Roy and Faye, CYL Hector was introduced with Maltet having Quick Riposte 5. When CYL2 was part of a weapon update, refined Maltet's Quick Riposte 5 was upgraded to what would become inheritable to armors as Slick Fighter with an increased HP range to >= 25% and neutralizing penalties. Armads simply has Quick Riposte 2 with its >= 80 HP range. We have had effects with much more lenient HP ranges on all types of units. What's the hold up with Hector? It's understandable with why there has been hesitation things like Dire Thunder, units with Distant Counter weapons, or 3* to 4* healers and refresh units, but it's weapon on a gen 1 armor who has been skipped over by 3*, 4*, and grail summonable armors for weapon updates and, although a special case, CYL Hector received something really, really stupid let alone recent units getting whatever like flying Nino's deal damage by 20% of her speed.

Whatever, moving on from Hector. Seasonal unit, interesting. I do agree with people saying that with seasonal units and kind of healers now being included, that adds more units to the lineup for weapon updates. Aside from units sharing weapons like Chrom, Lucina, and masked Marth sharing Awakening Falchion, weapon updates are usually 4 units. The pace is slow. This upcoming one is 5 with 1 seasonal, 1 grail, and 3 regular pool units. +6 units would be nice. The testing that goes with them is an issue even if it's to give them simple things like Sophia receiving a prf -raven tome with Bracing Stance 2 or Berkut's Dark Royal Spear's base effect being similar to the at then recent if foe initiates or if foe's HP = 100% effects found on Shannan's Balmung and the Krises' Blade/Spear of Shadow and then getting Lull Atk/Def 3 as the unique refinement. That's understandable. If it's about the non-grail units being a banner, then I feel like as a compromise, the 3* to 4* unit(s) that is part of the weapon update should be excluded from the banner. Straight-up not on the banner. For instance, suppose Hector or Quan was part of this upcoming update, well, L'Arachel is not on the banner, but Ayra, Ishtar, probably Halloween Nowi, and Hector/Quan are. The thing is they kind of did this some times, but I mainly recall if happening with a unit sharing a weapon like Seliph was not part of the New Power banner with his father.

Onto the units themselves, L'Arachel has the biggest change to be a flop. TL;DR: If foe's HP = 100% is restrictive as the only condition to activate an effect. For some reason, seeing her on the weapon update made me wonder if they would dare to give Ivaldi a Catch, either as an upgraded base effect, so Atk/Spd Catch 3, or as a unique refinement which can be Atk/Spd or Atk/Res Catch 3, and legendary Claude just introduced the Catch line of skills with Atk/Spd Catch 4.

Spoiler

An easy and not great thing they can do is simply copy what they did to Gleipnir for mage knight Eirika. Only if foe's HP = 100% is such a restrictive condition and has had a crappy history. With Lloyd to mage knight Eirika and L'Arachel, Lloyd's Regal Blade was Atk/Spd+2 to their tome's Atk/Spd+3. When he was part of a weapon update, Regal Blade's upgraded base effect was bumped up to match their Atk/Spd+3 boost. Then we got Tibarn who instead of being granted stats and also requiring another check of him needing to initiate, was granted a guaranteed follow-up attack and Perceval and Mininerva who had Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 and Guard. Also, Dimitri's Noble Lance is pretty lenient with if he and his foe are at full health or not for the guaranteed follow-up attack. Summer Lyn's condition sucks too being locked to player phase only with the if foe's HP = 100%. Well, the base effect of Gleipnir was bumped up to Atk/Spd+4 when refined. Unfortunately, it's unique refinement stacks another only if foe's HP = 100% for an effect that is the same as Shanan's Balmung or the Krises' Blade/Spear of Shadow. Speaking of, if foe's HP = 100% has been tacked onto a lot of basically Spectrum Stance effects for a little bonus it works on player phase too when needed for Berkut, CYL Hector, the Krises, Shannan, Sheena, and ballroom Sigurd & Deirdre.

An argument for mage knight Eirika is that it can be annoying on Aether Raids to catch foes likely at full health. Sure, but fallen Berkut, winter Bernadetta, Duma, Lif, Lif & Thrasir, and Thrasir all have effects that damage their allies, so then the condition fails without an alternative means to get the effects. Half those units are Anima mythics, so they would likely not be encountered on Light/Dark season or maybe Arena or whatever, but still it's such a restrictive condition. For units who have can heal themselves or maintain full health often, well, CYL Edelgard and CYL Ike are beasts of their own, Eir has high resistance, Guinivere has effective damage against mages let alone her high resistance and WTA against mage knight Eirika, and Forsyth and Oliver have WTA and Oliver can have high resistance as both effects of his Tome of Favors grant a total of Atk/Res+10, and legendary Seliph with his enemy phase Desperation only needs to survive one hit to probably ORKO mage knight Eirika -- maybe he could survive two from her if she has Desperation. That leaves Narcian who has WTD against her.

Another thing for mage knight Eirika is that at least she's fast or was depending with her 35 base neutral speed. L'Arachel's not at 31 base neutral. To stop rambling, copying Gleipnir for Ivaldi would as others have said, not be great and a cop out. They have done such things before with weapons being the same for several units such as Fir and Karel both getting Nameless Blade which has the same Killer and Wo Dao effect that Michalis and Minerva where Michalis shared Hauteclere with Minerva and later Shanna all received or Lon'qu getting the same Killer and L&D3 effects for his Solitary Blade that Raven previously had for Basilikos. What makes it worse for L'Arachel is that Reinhardt is Reinhardt. For an offensive blue mage cavalry, at best we have sidegrades with a different niche through Selena's raw offenses and Null Follow-Up effect and Ursula's Blizzard effect if you can get that working. Unique refined Gleipnir is mainly player phase and would not be as practical as a simple prf Brave tome.

Specializing in different role would let her stand out even if it's not as fun for some to see their favorite princess of peerless beauty destroying things like Reinhardt. When I saw her on the notification, it made me think of Siegbert for some reason. Atk/Spd Solo 4 was recently introduced or was introduced with the update he was part of and his Dark Greatsword's unique refinement ended up being Atk/Spd Solo 1.5 and Dull Solo. Lulls were kind of recent too with Hawkeye and F!Kana receiving Lull Atk/Def 3 and Lull Atk/Spd 3, respectively, for their weapon's unique refinement. With L'Arachel, it made me think would they dare to give her a Catch which was just introduced by legendary Claude? It wouldn't make sense really, especially for a light tome to take advantage of someone with a penalty, but it could be interesting. As a unique refinement, Atk/Spd or Atk/Res Catch 3 and Ivaldi's base effect upgraded to Atk/Spd+4 would be like a tier 4 Catch as a whole. Tier 4 Catch is the only one with the additional stat boost if the foe is at full health and with a penalty. In this case, regardless if the foe has a penalty or not, if the foe's at full health, then L'Arachel would get Atk/Spd+4 from the upgraded base effect and Atk/Y+5 from the Atk/Y Catch 3 unique refinement. If the foe is not at full health, but has a penalty, then she only gets Atk/Y+5 from the Catch 3. It still doubles down on if foe's HP = 100% and doesn't work against penalty neutralization or can backfire against penalty reverse effects, but she does another way to get some stats.

As an upgrade to Ivaldi's base effect, though, Atk/Spd Catch 3 would be pretty neat. At the very least, that leaves the unique refinement open. Point is that the base effect having another means of activating would be helpful. Not just for her, but for mage knight Eirika, Lloyd, Minierva, and Perceval.

Maybe it's because legendary Seliph showed up, but Ishtar's Mjolnir getting an enemy phase Desperation would be funny. She has Vantage by default, so being able to combine that would be chaotic. Or they could go further and give her a Desperation that works on both phases. As long as her speed is 5 or more than her foe and she's not fighting someone with a follow-up prevention effect, Hardy Bearing, Vantage when she's on player player phase, or has a -sweep effect when she's on enemy phase, lightning shall strike twice.

Halloween Nowi's Grimoire, I don't know what they could with it besides upgrading the base effect to be like merchant Anna's where it works so long as she's not dead. That just makes commander Anna, Takumi, and Zelgius look even worse.

Edited by Kaden

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8 minutes ago, Kaden said:

What is also surprising or perhaps not as this point is Hector is still not part of a weapon update. Excluding the Black Knight because once again, Distant Counter units, and correct me if I am wrong, we have gone through every gen 1 armor except for Hector where amusingly enough, none of them were 5*-exclusive units like Hector. We had crazy things like Arden getting a Meisterschwert to the makes sense, enemy phase weapons of Draug, Gwendolyn, and Sheena, and all right, but has left some wanting with Effie and Zephiel who was part of an early weapon update unlike the others. Anyway, moving onto the point, what are they afraid of? What can't they figure out?

Roy then Faye were given Quick Riposte 5 with a HP range of >= 50% for their unique refinements where Roy is a launch, 3* to 4* sword infantry and Faye a 5*-exclusive who did not end up with a prf Firesweep Bow which would not have meshed well with her stat spread. Between Roy and Faye, CYL Hector was introduced with Maltet having Quick Riposte 5. When CYL2 was part of a weapon update, refined Maltet's Quick Riposte 5 was upgraded to what would become inheritable to armors as Slick Fighter with an increased HP range to >= 25% and neutralizing penalties. Armads simply has Quick Riposte 2 with its >= 80 HP range. We have had effects with much more lenient HP ranges on all types of units. What's the hold up with Hector? It's understandable with why there has been hesitation things like Dire Thunder, units with Distant Counter weapons, or 3* to 4* healers and refresh units, but it's weapon on a gen 1 armor who has been skipped over by 3*, 4*, and grail summonable armors for weapon updates and, although a special case, CYL Hector received something really, really stupid let alone recent units getting whatever like flying Nino's deal damage by 20% of her speed.

The weird thing about regular Hector is that he's really not even the best Axe Armor anymore, all he has going for himself is having the easiest source of Distant Counter (now that he's in the 4* Special pool).

Even considering his Resplendent stats, he only outdoes 5 Axe Armors in Atk while matching 2 others (one of them being Hector who is Just Here to Fight), his Def is only the same as LegEdelgard, and his other stats... well he easily has the best HP, nobody cares about his Spd, and his Res is the worst (it ties with Halloween Dorcas). So in terms of stats, he's hardly making any stellar waves.
If we assume Armads gets the QR5 treatment plus one refine effect, that still leaves him leagues behind many of the other Axe Armors. The only ones he can really match are the ones who don't have Prfs (as well as Hector who is JHtF), seeing as how every Axe Armor with one has at least one stand-out effect. Brave Ephraim is also in the 4* Special pool, and Garm does everything Armads wishes it could do.
So if all Hector has going for himself is the highest HP among Axe Armors (which isn't exactly a major selling point outside of Pawns of Loki) and Distant Counter, which by the way every other Axe Armor gravitates towards having anyway, then... yeah, what the hell?

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22 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

So if all Hector has going for himself is the highest HP among Axe Armors (which isn't exactly a major selling point outside of Pawns of Loki) and Distant Counter, which by the way every other Axe Armor gravitates towards having anyway, then... yeah, what the hell?

I am hoping Armads get guaranteed follow up on both phases. Might as well throw in Slaying effect for good measure too. Having damage reduction based on the difference between total HP would be awesome too.

Edited by XRay

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For quick reference, here's all the seasonals who got Prfs to begin with:

Book I spoilers: it's just one character

Spoiler

Performing Arts Azura lol dancer

Book II

Spoiler

Valentine's Hector lol Armads
Spring Sharena
Spring Catria
Bridal Sanaki
Bridal Tharja
Summer Tana
Summer Y!Tiki
Festival Micaiah lol dancer
Halloween Myrrh

Book III

Spoiler

Winter Ephraim
New Year's Gunnthra
Spring Veronica
Picnic Felicia
Picnic Flora
Bridal Fjorm
Summer Laegjarn
Summer Lyn
Ballroom Berkut lol dancer
Ballroom Ishtar lol dancer with a Brave weapon
Ballroom Reinhardt lol dancer with a Brave weapon
Halloween Hector & Lilina

RIP Greil, the only Prf-less Valentine's dad

Book IV

Spoiler

Every Duo & Harmonized Unit
Every Seasonal Beast Unit
Winter Sothis
Valentine's Rudolf
Spring Est
Spring Fir
Young Marth
   *shares with Phina (a Book III character)
Young Caeda
Young Merric
Young Minerva
   *is a Grail unit
Summer Selena [Fluorspar]
Summer Ingrid
Halloween Xane
Halloween F!Robin
Ninja Laevatein

Book V

Spoiler

Every Duo & Harmonized Unit
   *Winter Altina & Sanaki share with regular Altina (a Book III Mythic)
Every Seasonal Beast Unit
Winter Bernadetta
New Year's Plumeria
Plegian Katarina
Valentine's Gustav

 

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8 minutes ago, Florete said:

Eliwood, though.

Whoops, my mistake.

I guess was too busy internally lamenting how Greil is just flat out inferior to Gustav in every way.

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1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

For quick reference, here's all the seasonals who got Prfs to begin with:

Book I spoilers: it's just one character

  Hide contents

Performing Arts Azura lol dancer

Book II

  Hide contents

Valentine's Hector lol Armads
Spring Sharena
Spring Catria
Bridal Sanaki
Bridal Tharja
Summer Tana
Summer Y!Tiki
Festival Micaiah lol dancer
Halloween Myrrh

Book III

  Hide contents

Winter Ephraim
New Year's Gunnthra
Spring Veronica
Picnic Felicia
Picnic Flora
Bridal Fjorm
Summer Laegjarn
Summer Lyn
Ballroom Berkut lol dancer
Ballroom Ishtar lol dancer with a Brave weapon
Ballroom Reinhardt lol dancer with a Brave weapon
Halloween Hector & Lilina

RIP Greil, the only Prf-less Valentine's dad

Book IV

  Hide contents

Every Duo & Harmonized Unit
Every Seasonal Beast Unit
Winter Sothis
Valentine's Rudolf
Spring Est
Spring Fir
Young Marth
   *shares with Phina (a Book III character)
Young Caeda
Young Merric
Young Minerva
   *is a Grail unit
Summer Selena [Fluorspar]
Summer Ingrid
Halloween Xane
Halloween F!Robin
Ninja Laevatein

Book V

  Hide contents

Every Duo & Harmonized Unit
   *Winter Altina & Sanaki share with regular Altina (a Book III Mythic)
Every Seasonal Beast Unit
Winter Bernadetta
New Year's Plumeria
Plegian Katarina
Valentine's Gustav

 

Wow, seasonals joining the "Everyone gets a Prf" club happened so slowly I didn't even realize it. Inheritable weapons are basically extinct in the series now, huh. Looks like they'll never give us inheritable distant counter hand axes.

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1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

Every Duo & Harmonized Unit

Duo Ephraim is a non-seasonal Duo Hero (and the only non-seasonal Duo Hero).

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1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

In all fairness, Eliwood is also not dead

...are you saying these people sacrificed their otherworldly lives in order to have a Prf weapon?
...anyone got some sort of cross-dimensional teleporter handy, I wanna see what happens.

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28 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Duo Ephraim is a non-seasonal Duo Hero (and the only non-seasonal Duo Hero).

Yeah, I’m well aware that he awkwardly exists as the only non-seasonal Duo....but he’s not a seasonal as you said when I was only listing seasonals (and even if he was, he has a Prf as well just like all the rest). I’m honestly confused as to why you brought him up.

14 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

...are you saying these people sacrificed their otherworldly lives in order to have a Prf weapon?

If that’s the case, then Greil needs to demand a refund from Hel.

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According to the notification board, Valentine Hector is getting a second rerun in April. He IS next for a refine in terms of seasonal units with PRFs after Nowi and if we skip Performing Azura. Interesting! Bunny Sharena and Catria might have to wait until May and June respectively. 

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Watch Berserk Armads and Thunder Armads become available for refinement before regular Armads. Might as well go even further and add in Dire Thunder, Distant Counter weapons, and refresh units being part of weapon updates, Durban as a future mythic bringing in another version of Armads, and also Brigand Boss getting into the game before regular Armads can become available for refinement.

Edited by Kaden

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Hector returning in April... I think that confirms him in April's refinements. The summoning event mentioned is probably the New Power banner... unless they put him in the Double Special, but not sure about that.

Would be nice if both Armads and Berserk Armads get a refinement together.

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Huh, that's interesting. If we really are getting a Berserk Armads refine, I wonder if it'll be alongside regular Armads.

Conveniently, I got Valentine's Hector for my free summon today!

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5 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Hector returning in April... I think that confirms him in April's refinements. The summoning event mentioned is probably the New Power banner... unless they put him in the Double Special, but not sure about that.

Would be nice if both Armads and Berserk Armads get a refinement together.

Would be really nice, as I have a +10 OG Hector waiting on refine, and being able to pick from both of his options at once would be amazing.

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Oh, so Valentine's Hector might be due for a refine.

I hope that they don't ignore the prf-less seasonal units though. Pretty much all of the first year units need serious help, some of those weapon effects are super outdated. Maybe it's possible that IS will just mass refine inheritable seasonal weapons during Golden Week or something.

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50 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Honestly, I expect them to ignore the prf-less seasons units.

I'm expecting the opposite. All of the old seasonal units are 5-star exclusives, and they've already shown that they're willing to give Gen 1 5-star-exclusive staff units exclusive weapons. Whether or not it'll come before or after 5-star-exclusive dancers is a toss-up, but I think both will happen eventually, and probably before the end of the year.

At the very least, I think old seasonal units will get exclusive weapons sooner than 4-star staff units simply by virtue of being 5-star-exclusive units.

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