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Lightchao42

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: The King of Iron Smash

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

69 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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2 minutes ago, Jingilator said:

Which characters do you think Sakurai would pick if he had completely free reign with the DLC?

Hard to say, as I don't know him all that well, but I think some of the characters who got Mii Costume'd would be on his list. Byleth and Kazuya probably would have been swapped out for someone else.

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2 hours ago, Yexin said:

you can always play Kazuya (just like Ryu, Ken and Terry), not use special inputs and still have a great time and be at least decent at the game, if you know what you're doing

I'm not sure you can. Kazuya just has so many moves compared to every other character int he game that you basically have to know what you're doing with him, otherwise you'll be launching diagonal down right tilt instead of side tilt half the time. He looks like a technical character that will take a lot more practice to get good at than most of the cast. Though obviously we'll have to wait until he's actually released to see what he's like.

33 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Hard to say, as I don't know him all that well, but I think some of the characters who got Mii Costume'd would be on his list. Byleth and Kazuya probably would have been swapped out for someone else.

I don't see where you get that he'd take Kazuya out. He's gone to great lengths to replicate everything Kazuya can do in Tekken and displayed a very intimate knowledge of the Tekken series, it seems to me Kazuya's one of the character he has the most personal interest in among the roster thus far. I don't think they'd m ake him so crazy different and unique if Sakurai wasn't enthusiastic about his inclusion.

Edited by Jotari

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Since we pretty much getting around 13 Additional Spirits while adding Kazuya in the game. I'm kind of wondered if Sakurai managed to update Shantae's Spirit Battle when the players downloaded the Shantae Mii Fighter Costume during in the 12.0.0 Update?

As for Predicting Challenger Pack 11:

I seriously definitely think it's going to be not an another Capcom, Konami, Bandai Namco, Microsoft, Square Enix, nor Sega Rep since we did have two 3rd Party franchises per Companies in Ultimate already. It might be either a 1st Party Rep, 2nd SNK Rep, or something Bigger that we didn't predict it and the date might going to be announced somewhere at Fall 2021 or at the Game Awards 2021 Presentation. I'm also predicting Mii Fighter Costume Round 11 that we could see something similar in Round 10 and it's definitely more heavily requested focus that didn't make it to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate that might use it in the set such as:

  1. Someone from Challenger Pack 11's franchise
  2. Phoenix Wright (as Mii Brawler)
  3. Crash Bandicoot (as Mii Brawler)
  4. Maybe another Konami Costume (like maybe Metal Gear or Castlevania)
  5. Doom Guy (as Mii Fighter Gunner)
  6. Maybe an another indie costume like Shovel Knight or Hollow Knight (w/Music)
Edited by King Marth 64

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While I sort of appreciate how faithful Kazuya is to Tekken, I also know I'll never be able to play as him effectively. I have trouble remembering how to do Terry's inputs in the middle of battle, much less most of Kazuya's. I'm still glad that Tekken finally got a character.

While the Mii costumes were nothing like I predicted, again (though I like the costumes chosen), at least I have a good track record with the legendary spirits. And there are 39 Tekken songs, which is very impressive.

I gave up on predicting who will get in a long time ago, but characters I don't expect are:

  • Any Western characters
  • Characters from Microsoft, SE, and Namco (while companies could double dip I don't think they will)
  • Fighting game characters (I don't think we'd get two in a row)
  • Nintendo characters who don't appear in any Switch games (Byleth, Min Min, Pyra, and Mythra all come from them)

Strangely enough, Phoenix Wright is probably Capcom's biggest character left, since RE, MH, and DMC are out and I don't think we'd get another Street Fighter character right after Kazuya. SNK gave some of everything with Terry and I don't know how many viable characters Konami has left (Raiden? Pyramid Head?), so I mostly think the last character will be from Nintendo, Sega, a smaller Capcom series (like Phoenix or Amaterasu), or a new Japanese company. I sure can't wait to be wrong! Just get ready for the final character to be a Pokémon. It's strange the Koei Temco has absolutely nothing at this point, except Fatal Frame which it co-owns with Nintendo. Hopefully Ryu Hayabusa can be a Mii costume if he isn't the final character.

Edited by Lightchao42

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19 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

It's strange the Koei Temco has absolutely nothing at this point, except Fatal Frame which it co-owns with Nintendo. Hopefully Ryu Hayabusa can be a Mii costume if he isn't the final character.

What if Kasumi from Dead or Alive series appears as Challenger Pack 11 with more modest Ninja Outfit she had instead since I did heard some reports of the creator of Ninja Gaiden made some statements about Ryu Hayabusa's inclusion in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and it might get lost in translations from the interviews that I saw? Plus, there was a trademark name of Koei Temco was used in Byleth's info and Sophia's Spirit as well.

Edited by King Marth 64

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I don't see where you get that he'd take Kazuya out. He's gone to great lengths to replicate everything Kazuya can do in Tekken and displayed a very intimate knowledge of the Tekken series, it seems to me Kazuya's one of the character he has the most personal interest in among the roster thus far. I don't think they'd m ake him so crazy different and unique if Sakurai wasn't enthusiastic about his inclusion.

"A voice from Heaven told me 'Sakurai...Sakurai...Put Tekken into Smash.'" Like Byleth, the implication is that it was Nintendo's decision moreso than his own. Of course he went to great lengths, it's his job to rep each fighter as well as possible. Considering the man can count binary on his hands and play two controllers at once, mastering the controls of Tekken would be no big feat for him. As to who he'd replace them with? Not sure, but I have a good idea of who I'd replace them with.

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46 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

"A voice from Heaven told me 'Sakurai...Sakurai...Put Tekken into Smash.'" Like Byleth, the implication is that it was Nintendo's decision moreso than his own. Of course he went to great lengths, it's his job to rep each fighter as well as possible. Considering the man can count binary on his hands and play two controllers at once, mastering the controls of Tekken would be no big feat for him. As to who he'd replace them with? Not sure, but I have a good idea of who I'd replace them with.

Well, to be fair that Sakurai was planning to have Heihachi as the 2nd Bandai Namco rep for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U before we got Kazuya added in Ultimate and I did heard that Sakurai did had issues adding Heihachi due to the CERO Rating Boards for the DLC which that might makes no sense on why? I do think Nintendo might had looked over the development list when Sakurai was worked on and left stuff in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U and might have suggested to Sakurai to not add any existing characters as DLC characters that were already appeared as Mii Fighter Costumes from For Nintendo 3DS / Wii U. The company might had decided to replace Heihachi with Kazuya instead as the 2nd Bandai Namco rep.

Edited by King Marth 64

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56 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

"A voice from Heaven told me 'Sakurai...Sakurai...Put Tekken into Smash.'" Like Byleth, the implication is that it was Nintendo's decision moreso than his own. 

I don't think we'll ever know for certain, but I think the implication is that Sakurai is referring to Katsuhiro Harada, the director of Tekken. These two guys have a working relationship, sometimes quoting each other in their respective game development chats, and make jokes to each other on social media. One such interaction back in March we now know was teasing a Tekken fighter after all. I think it's fair to say that they're friends and have been planning this fighter for quite a while now. One time Harada was very outspoken against internet campaigns spamming messages to Sakurai.

Most people willing to "stick up" for Sakurai like this will turn right around and push their own most wanted a moment later. I definitely don't think Nintendo pushed for Kazuya because, well, he's not a nintendo character. And there isn't even a Tekken game on current Nintendo hardware. 

Edited by Glennstavos

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18 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

One time Harada was very outspoken against internet campaigns spamming messages to Sakurai.

Most people willing to "stick up" for Sakurai like this will turn right around and push their own most wanted a moment later. I definitely don't think Nintendo pushed for Kazuya because, well, he's not a nintendo character. And there isn't even a Tekken game on current Nintendo hardware. 

Wait, so that technically means Crash Bandicoot, Sora, Master Chief, and Arle pretty much have zero chances to appear in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's planned character roster list nor appearing as Mii Fighter Costume as well due to some of those characters weren't part of the DLC Plan, correct? I'm kind of surprised to see he didn't mentioned anything about Dante, Shantae, nor the other popular picks.

Edited by King Marth 64

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14 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

Wait, so that technically means Crash Bandicoot, Sora, Master Chief, and Arle pretty much have zero chances to appear in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's planned character roster list nor appearing as Mii Fighter Costume as well due to some of those characters weren't part of the DLC Plan, correct?

I definitely wouldn't draw that conclusion. Harada hates spammers, but he's not the guy who gets the final say on who gets in. Sakurai is. Here's the followup to that tweet where Harada clarifies:

But some folks rightfully point out that they're just trying to get their dumb hashtag trending on twitter, and that not all of them are bad eggs who tweet at developers personally. I don't think Smash's developers keep some "blacklist" of characters that aren't getting in. Maybe Harada overreacted to the cases where that did happen, or it was a clever threat to get people to stop spamming entirely because he just doesn't care for that behavior.

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The guy put Snake in Smash as a favor to his friend Kojima, so I could buy that including Kazuya was a similar move for Harada. But the entire DLC list was up to Nintendo and the third parties, ultimately. I just hope Shantae is one of the first new fighters out of the gate in Smash 6.

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@Glennstavos @NegativeExponents- @Jotari

you all are right in saying that mastering all of his moves is not easy, but the point i was trying to convey is, you don't have to

some of my friends are tekken fans, and they told me that it doesn't really matter how many moves tekken characters have, because in order to be effective you just need to learn a character's fundamentals and the moves/combos you like to use/you think fit well in your playstile (and also, dare i say, because it's basically impossible to perform all of them in a single match)
also, after some practice, i think everyone would be able to play Kazuya decently

so IMO Kazuya's many moves are there to give players more option, rather than to confuse them with all of their weird inputs, and again, unless you really want to go and play competitively, you should probably use joker or pikachu not feel that bothered by Kazuya's moves and inputs

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5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I don't think we'll ever know for certain, but I think the implication is that Sakurai is referring to Katsuhiro Harada, the director of Tekken.

No we do know for certain. @Lord_Brand
is 100% right in saying that Nintendo definitely pushed for him to put a Tekken fighter in Smash, although I'm not sure if they know why as it seemed like they were speaking from gut feeling seeing that there is a lack of explanation.

Anyway I'll explain since most people probably didn't understand the "voice from heaven" part as it was poorly explained, likely on purpose because Nintendo didn't want to be seen as heavy handed.

Anyway, it's simple. Sakurai says during the presentation "One day, I heard a voice from the heavens. It might've been from a company with the Japanese character for 'heaven' in its name." That's a direct reference to Nintendo as "Nintendo" written in Kanji would give you "任天堂" which is pronunced "nintendou" The "ten" part is important as that's "天" which would translate to "Heaven" (as a side note, 任天堂 as a whole would translate to something like "Heavenly Responsibility" although it's likely just seen as a name rather than them thinking that highly of themselves)

Also, yes it's strictly Nintendo as neither Tekken (鉄拳), Bandai Namco (バンダイナムコ), or Katsuhiro Harada (原田 勝弘) have the character for "heaven" as you can see.

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I hope that if there's another Smash, Miis are scrapped for more realistic create-a-characters that can actually look like the characters they add as Miis.

 

I'd be fine with desired characters getting in as Miis if they didn't aesthetically suck. I'm fine with having good models with generic kits.

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Here's some Spirit Events I think would make sense:

  • Game Builder Garage
  • Mario Golf: Super Rush
  • NEO The World Ends with You
  • Metroid Dread
  • SMT V
  • Splatoon 3

This is purely taking new releases into consideration.

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4 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I hope that if there's another Smash, Miis are scrapped for more realistic create-a-characters that can actually look like the characters they add as Miis.

I'd be fine with desired characters getting in as Miis if they didn't aesthetically suck. I'm fine with having good models with generic kits.

A more developed custom character system could provide various templates based on hitbox sizes and animation skeletons, with generation points for projectiles and weapons. They could allow for different mix-and-match qualities like a bouncing projectile that can be fiery, watery, icy, electrical, etc. or a fast-moving projectile that can take the form of an arrow or a missile. Melee weapons can have length and thickness ranges, and come in one-handed, two-handed, and polearm categories. A passive shield can be applied, with different designs. You can even implement extra midair jumps, transformations, selection wheels, and other such fancy bells and whistles.

However, the Custom Fighter system does limit how many advantages you can give your fighter via CP; higher speed, stronger attacks, longer weapons, etc. all cost CP, and you don't have nearly enough to add all the fancy features or give your fighter the highest possible speed, strength, flinch resistance, etc., all at once. However, you can apply drawbacks to your fighter to reduce the CP cost, like making your fighter slower, adding startup/end lag, or limiting weapon and move use (aesthetically represented as MP, Weapon Energy, durability, etc.).

Weight has a neutral effect; heavier characters are harder to knock out but also have reduced jump ability and increased fall speed, while lighter fighters are easier to knock out but have increased jump height and reduced fall speed, so there's a built-in balance.

For aesthetics, you choose from a number of model types such as Human, Armor, Animal, and Robot, with realistic and cartoony divisions for each. Different models have options such as fur and hair length, tail fluff, muscle thickness, armor style and material, etc. You can apply accessories such as masks, jewelry, wigs, and hats, and you can choose color schemes for all of the above.

For "buddy" fighters such as Duck Hunt, Banjo & Kazooie, or a theoretical Wolf Link & Midna or Yooka & Laylee, you can add a second model to your fighter, the aesthetics of which can be independently customized, though statistics like weight and speed are shared between the two since they're still effectively one fighter.

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I managed to receive the 12.0.0 Update and the Kazuya DLC today. I did noticed that Kazuya's Side Taunt does hurt opponents like Luigi and Greninja had and I did tested out in Training Mode with Sephiroth as the opponent that with the Walls Broken in Mishima Dojo that he can get KOed around 215% from Kazuya's Side Taunt. I also managed to cleared Kazuya's Classic Mode, but I didn't predicted what I expected for Kazuya's Final Boss Match is two Kazuyas (in different color and Metal Version), I usually thought it's going to be more of Dracula due to the Devil Bat Transformation like in Tekken 2. I'm not entirely sure if Kazuya's Final Boss Battle suppose to be Kazuya fighting himself like his Devil Form in Tekken 2?

By the way, I did noticed that 12.0.0 did managed to give Spirit Battles for both Arthur from Ghost 'n Goblins series (with Mii Costume of Arthur) and Sophia (with Ness and three Tiny Versions of R.O.B.s). I didn't see that Sakurai haven't touched to add Sophia in the Persona Spirit Board since Sophia is from the Persona series. I usually thought Sakurai would have her included in the Persona Spirit Board like how the Tockles Spirit were added in the Dragon Quest Spirit Board. Does anyone actually know if you didn't purchased the DLC Arthur Mii Swordfighter Costume and played the Arthur's Spirit Battle, does it use a different fighter as the main opponent or does it use the Mii Swordfighter with different outfit? 

Edited by King Marth 64

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15 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

I managed to receive the 12.0.0 Update and the Kazuya DLC today. I did noticed that Kazuya's Side Taunt does hurt opponents like Luigi and Greninja had and I did tested out in Training Mode with Sephiroth as the opponent that with the Walls Broken in Mishima Dojo that he can get KOed around 215% from Kazuya's Side Taunt. I also managed to cleared Kazuya's Classic Mode, but I didn't predicted what I expected for Kazuya's Final Boss Match is two Kazuyas (in different color and Metal Version), I usually thought it's going to be more of Dracula due to the Devil Bat Transformation like in Tekken 2. I'm not entirely sure if Kazuya's Final Boss Battle suppose to be Kazuya fighting himself like his Devil Form in Tekken 2?

By the way, I did noticed that 12.0.0 did managed to give Spirit Battles for both Arthur from Ghost 'n Goblins series (with Mii Costume of Arthur) and Sophia (with Ness and three Tiny Versions of R.O.B.s). I didn't see that Sakurai haven't touched to add Sophia in the Persona Spirit Board since Sophia is from the Persona series. I usually thought Sakurai would have her included in the Persona Spirit Board like how the Tockles Spirit were added in the Dragon Quest Spirit Board. Does anyone actually know if you didn't purchased the DLC Arthur Mii Swordfighter Costume and played the Arthur's Spirit Battle, does it use a different fighter as the main opponent or does it use the Mii Swordfighter with different outfit? 

I'm not super up with Tekken, but from the sounds of it his final boss battle might be a reference to Tekken Tag Tournament. The final boss in one of those games is a metal version of Kazuya's baby mommy and the game itself has some kind of tag team mechanic, so I can see some sort of sense there. Though if anyone more familiar with Tekken has any further insight, then I'm all ears.

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My brother and I tested Kazuya out yesterday. I do okay with his moveset, not my favorite. My brother dislikes his moveset due to all the extra moves you have to memorize. As Legend Spirits go, Heihachi is meh. His skill is literally just Fist Attack  + Foot Attack . Not even a double arrow to make it stronger than Physical Attack . Though to be fair, his battle was also a lot easier than past Legend Spirit Battles.

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12 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

My brother and I tested Kazuya out yesterday. I do okay with his moveset, not my favorite. My brother dislikes his moveset due to all the extra moves you have to memorize. As Legend Spirits go, Heihachi is meh. His skill is literally just Fist Attack  + Foot Attack . Not even a double arrow to make it stronger than Physical Attack . Though to be fair, his battle was also a lot easier than past Legend Spirit Battles.

Did your brother actually watched Sakurai's Presentation of Kazuya to see all the list of Kazuya's Movesets Input Commands before he testing out Kazuya? Or does he had a hard time memorizing all the inputs in Sakurai's Presentation?

I definitely need to watch the Presentation again to view the moveset input commands again until I get used to Kazuya like I did with Ryu, Ken, and Terry.

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Just now, King Marth 64 said:

Did your brother actually watched Sakurai's Presentation of Kazuya to see all the list of Kazuya's Movesets Input Commands before he testing out Kazuya? Or does he had a hard time memorizing all the inputs in Sakurai's Presentation?

I definitely need to watch the Presentation again to view the moveset input commands again until I get used to Kazuya like I did with Ryu, Ken, and Terry.

He watched. He just doesn't like input commands, and he doesn't care to memorize so many more attacks, especially since his controller's been experiencing drift.

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1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

My brother and I tested Kazuya out yesterday. I do okay with his moveset, not my favorite. My brother dislikes his moveset due to all the extra moves you have to memorize. As Legend Spirits go, Heihachi is meh. His skill is literally just Fist Attack  + Foot Attack . Not even a double arrow to make it stronger than Physical Attack . Though to be fair, his battle was also a lot easier than past Legend Spirit Battles.

Yeah I found his battle really easy too. Usually a legend spirit might give two or three tries, but I beat him easily first time.

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Imagine yourself as Sakurai, about to reveal CP11...and you get to one day utter the words:

"For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested (insert character here) and now I am so happy to finally see (insert character here) in the game."

Who would you pick in this regard? For me, it'd be Sora or Crash or Eggman.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yeah I found his battle really easy too. Usually a legend spirit might give two or three tries, but I beat him easily first time.

Took us a couple tries, but most Legend Spirits take us a lot more than that.

1 hour ago, Perkilator said:

Imagine yourself as Sakurai, about to reveal CP11...and you get to one day utter the words:

"For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested (insert character here) and now I am so happy to finally see (insert character here) in the game."

Who would you pick in this regard? For me, it'd be Sora or Crash or Eggman.

Crash. I'm expecting him to be the last anyway, or at least I'm hoping for that.

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6 hours ago, Perkilator said:

Imagine yourself as Sakurai, about to reveal CP11...and you get to one day utter the words:

"For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested (insert character here) and now I am so happy to finally see (insert character here) in the game."

Who would you pick in this regard? For me, it'd be Sora or Crash or Eggman.

That's easy. Mike Jones from StarTropics series as Challenger Pack 11. It was my wish list request.

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