Who Should Be a Future Legendary?

[Arthur97]

7 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

At least we didn't get another Lucina alt

I honestly really want one. Masked Lucina isn't much, and she's only had one seasonal. Plus, I want a Lucina with the powercreep treatment.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Arthur97

[redlight]

11 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I honestly really want one. Masked Lucina isn't much, and she's only had one seasonal. Plus, I want a Lucina with the powercreep treatment.

Do you want your waifu to be stoned to death by the Feh community?

[Jotari]

Speaking of Celica, it'd be hilarious if Brave Celica was Prepubescent Celica wielding the Golden Knife. Going up against the likes of Grima or Ike with her would certainly constitute being called Brave.

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Do you want your waifu to be stoned to death by the Feh community?

Going with the waifu terminology, huh?

I want another version of one of my favorites and she hasn't gotten a seasonal in about a year despite massive popularity. Plus, she didn't get powercreep stats in any of her versions. Just don't let it be in a second bride banner.

 

[redlight]

22 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Going with the waifu terminology, huh?

I want another version of one of my favorites and she hasn't gotten a seasonal in about a year despite massive popularity. Plus, she didn't get powercreep stats in any of her versions. Just don't let it be in a second bride banner.

 

People hate characters with more than two versions of them already enough as it is. Making more alts for the sake of your favorite character getting increased BST is greedy and will invoke the wrath of several apes. Besides, everyone other than masked Lucina is considered a solid top-tier unit. 36 base spd is very good

I'm not saying you can't wish for it. But if you're saying this because you want Lucina to join the armor BST bandwagon...

I swear to god if there's any single person in the game has more than 4 versions of themselves, I'll put them in my signature and say every negative thing about them. Even my favorites aren't safe from this. But they aren't in the game yet or will never get a alt since they won't make money

Edited March 27, 2018 by silveraura25

[Arthur97]

26 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

People hate characters with more than two versions of them already enough as it is. Making more alts for the sake of your favorite character getting increased BST is greedy and will invoke the wrath of several apes. Besides, everyone other than masked Lucina is considered a solid top-tier unit. 36 base spd is very good

I'm not saying you can't wish for it. But if you're saying this because you want Lucina to join the armor BST bandwagon...

I swear to god if there's any single person in the game has more than 4 versions of themselves, I'll put them in my signature and say every negative thing about them. Even my favorites aren't safe from this. But they aren't in the game yet or will never get a alt since they won't make money

I mean, people are probably going to hate on Lucina one way or another. And bunny Lucina isn't top tier even if she's great. And, no, unless she's an armor, she shouldn't have armor stats. Plus, if I get another Lucina, I can take masked Lucina off the Lucina team since she's my least favorite Lucina.

[Fabulously Olivier]

34 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

People hate characters with more than two versions of them already enough as it is. Making more alts for the sake of your favorite character getting increased BST is greedy and will invoke the wrath of several apes. Besides, everyone other than masked Lucina is considered a solid top-tier unit. 36 base spd is very good

I'm not saying you can't wish for it. But if you're saying this because you want Lucina to join the armor BST bandwagon...

I swear to god if there's any single person in the game has more than 4 versions of themselves, I'll put them in my signature and say every negative thing about them. Even my favorites aren't safe from this. But they aren't in the game yet or will never get a alt since they won't make money

Alternate versions of characters are fine, IMO. They allow people to enjoy alternative sides of the character or to have that character at a different point in their storyline. Nor do I feel like they take away from new characters, as alts make up a relative minority of the roster.

I only hate seasonal alts. Fire Emblem deserves better than immersion breaking swimsuits and bunny costumes.

[redlight]

I draw the line at seasonals. If you want to take up a characters spot on the banner then you're doing something evil.

[Lewyn]

4 hours ago, Etheus said:

Alternate versions of characters are fine, IMO. They allow people to enjoy alternative sides of the character or to have that character at a different point in their storyline. Nor do I feel like they take away from new characters, as alts make up a relative minority of the roster.

I only hate seasonal alts. Fire Emblem deserves better than immersion breaking swimsuits and bunny costumes.

Except they do take the spots of new characters.  Cavalry Eirika took a spot, Zelgius took a spot, Fallen Robin and Fallen Celica took spots, Exalted Chrom took a spot, etc.  Banners are smaller now and at the same time alts are taking up those few spots as well.  

4 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

I draw the line at seasonals. If you want to take up a characters spot on the banner then you're doing something evil.

Exactly.  

Also I'm not saying selfish from Intelligence system, I am calling the people who support alts taking up spots on new hero banners selfish.  I mean it is hard to argue, that wanting multiple versions of something you like before other people get even one version of what they like is selfish.  

As far as Japan not caring or knowing about anything Fates/Awakening.  No thankfully they aren't as ignorant as western gamers.  Indeed Fates/Awakening is popular cause it is new, even the Tellius games were many years ago.  However 56 characters of the top 100 in CYL round 2 were not from Awakening/Fates despite how old the other games are.  In addition only 1 character of the 8 CYL winners thus far has been from Awakening or Fates.  Meaning that indeed many Japanese know of the older games.  

[Jotari]

33 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Except they do take the spots of new characters.  Cavalry Eirika took a spot, Zelgius took a spot, Fallen Robin and Fallen Celica took spots, Exalted Chrom took a spot, etc.  Banners are smaller now and at the same time alts are taking up those few spots as well.  

Exactly.  

Also I'm not saying selfish from Intelligence system, I am calling the people who support alts taking up spots on new hero banners selfish.  I mean it is hard to argue, that wanting multiple versions of something you like before other people get even one version of what they like is selfish.  

As far as Japan not caring or knowing about anything Fates/Awakening.  No thankfully they aren't as ignorant as western gamers.  Indeed Fates/Awakening is popular cause it is new, even the Tellius games were many years ago.  However 56 characters of the top 100 in CYL round 2 were not from Awakening/Fates despite how old the other games are.  In addition only 1 character of the 8 CYL winners thus far has been from Awakening or Fates.  Meaning that indeed many Japanese know of the older games.  

It's not really selfish to buy something that you want when it's offered. And it's being offered, because the majority want it. That's just consumerism. The fact that you want the majority of the fanbase to boycott the game and not spend money on things they actually like just to satisfy your desires, comes across as selfish.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Tybrosion]

35 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's not really selfish to buy something that you want when it's offered. And it's being offered, because the majority want it. That's just consumerism. The fact that you want the majority of the fanbase to boycott the game and not spend money on things they actually like, comes across as selfish.

Yeah like in my case, you'd better believe I'd go all-in for another Leo alt since both his current iterations are garbage but I'm also not actively clamoring for one though he better get at least another one as an apology for the non-canon Eirika.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Tybrosion

[Troykv]

32 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

As far as Japan not caring or knowing about anything Fates/Awakening.  No thankfully they aren't as ignorant as western gamers.  Indeed Fates/Awakening is popular cause it is new, even the Tellius games were many years ago.  However 56 characters of the top 100 in CYL round 2 were not from Awakening/Fates despite how old the other games are.  In addition only 1 character of the 8 CYL winners thus far has been from Awakening or Fates.  Meaning that indeed many Japanese know of the older games.  

Well... that is a bit related to the fact the Non-Awakening/Fates Votes are usually focused to certain specific characters... unlike Awakening/Fates that are more spread (you'll rarely see a Fates/Awakening Character so below the CYL unless they're unpopular characters in their own games, like some NPCs), even making people like the Layla appear in decent positions.

[Lewyn]

34 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's not really selfish to buy something that you want when it's offered. And it's being offered, because the majority want it. That's just consumerism. The fact that you want the majority of the fanbase to boycott the game and not spend money on things they actually like just to satisfy your desires, comes across as selfish.

The majority or the small minority, the whales who drive 95% of sales?  Obviously they should be praised to the heavens by all of us, cause they are what keeps this game going and allows FTP players and small spenders to enjoy endlessly.  However perhaps  they are more obsessed with alts of a few select characters.  Like they have their super waifu or whatever and want as many versions as possible.  In addition they like to +10 exclusive 5 star only units, which of course takes a ton of money.  

They also hurt their brand, cause they can expose and make characters from older games more popular and thus make people more interested in said older games.  Reinhardt scored amazingly on CYL, being the 5th most popular male.  That is cause of his exposure in this game.   If this game is primarily a promotional tool for the main series, it does better to showcase as much of the universe as possible.  Echoes suddenly popularized all those Gaiden characters, several of them scoring very high.  Celica even was the highest voted female.  

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

The majority or the small minority, the whales who drive 95% of sales?  Obviously they should be praised to the heavens by all of us, cause they are what keeps this game going and allows FTP players and small spenders to enjoy endlessly.  However perhaps  they are more obsessed with alts of a few select characters.  Like they have their super waifu or whatever and want as many versions as possible.  In addition they like to +10 exclusive 5 star only units, which of course takes a ton of money.  

They also hurt their brand, cause they can expose and make characters from older games more popular and thus make people more interested in said older games.  Reinhardt scored amazingly on CYL, being the 5th most popular male.  That is cause of his exposure in this game.   If this game is primarily a promotional tool for the main series, it does better to showcase as much of the universe as possible.  Echoes suddenly popularized all those Gaiden characters, several of them scoring very high.  Celica even was the highest voted female.  

The majority of the people that buy. They're buying what they want because that's what's they want. It's not hurting the brand, because it's turning a profit. Maybe you can call them selfish for spending money on the things they personally want to spend on money on. And Nintendo or IS is just as selfish for running their business with the intention to get as much money as possible. But it's no more selfish than you trying to discourage people from doing what they want based on your own subjective opinion of what would make the best game. We don't live in  Marxist utopia (I assume, if you do live somewhere in which communism actually works, do please share) where everything is equal a fair. If we end up getting sixty five different incarnations of Corrin and eighty Celica's, then that's fine. You might not like it, I might not like it, but our opinions are irrelevant, the majority of people who make the game possible do, otherwise it wouldn't happen. You're free to express your opinon, and enough people agree with you then the system will change, but you have no authority to shame people because they're consuming a product that's made for them and it hurts your own personal preference.

And try to understand, I'm not attacking you or jumping down your throat with this, I know it might seem like I am. You just keep repeatedly calling people selfish for liking things that you don't like, and I think you're objectively wrong to do so.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

34 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

They also hurt their brand, cause they can expose and make characters from older games more popular and thus make people more interested in said older games.

Representing a game at all with good representatives already does that job. Considering the majority of banners since launch have been focused on a single game, each game does get attention in turn. Including alt characters on banners doesn't slow down representation of other games; it slows down representation for the game that the banner is based on.

Eirika or Chrom getting an alt on a non-limited banner doesn't slow down the release of the next Genealogy or Thracia banner. They only slow down the release of characters from The Sacred Stones and Awakening, respectively.

Making sure that they make a least a few of the characters on banners for older games desirable has a greater impact on spreading interest in that game than just shoving a ton of mediocre characters from those games down our throats.

I'm going to wager that Hardin alone brings more attention to (New) Mystery of the Emblem than the entire Echoes of Mystery banner combined.

[Troykv]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Representing a game at all with good representatives already does that job. Considering the majority of banners since launch have been focused on a single game, each game does get attention in turn. Including alt characters on banners doesn't slow down representation of other games; it slows down representation for the game that the banner is based on.

Eirika or Chrom getting an alt on a non-limited banner doesn't slow down the release of the next Genealogy or Thracia banner. They only slow down the release of characters from The Sacred Stones and Awakening, respectively.

Making sure that they make a least a few of the characters on banners for older games desirable has a greater impact on spreading interest in that game than just shoving a ton of mediocre characters from those games down our throats.

I'm going to wager that Hardin alone brings more attention to (New) Mystery of the Emblem than the entire Echoes of Mystery banner combined.

Well...  Isn't help that Echoes had the bad luck of appearing in a period of the game where being Strong was pure luck instead of being builded for victory like Hardin.

[bottlegnomes]

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I am calling the people who support alts taking up spots on new hero banners selfish.  I mean it is hard to argue, that wanting multiple versions of something you like before other people get even one version of what they like is selfish. 

Did you read literally anything I wrote? How is supporting a character 50% of the audience likes and 10% dislikes more selfish than supporting one 10% likes and 90% is apathetic toward? Again, hyperbolic numbers, but that's the general gist of alts.

Also, yeah only 44% of the top 100 CYL chatacters being from 13% of the games is damning evidence that they're not popular.

Edited March 28, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Liliesgrace]

Honestly, I think every main protagonist/lord/hero of each game should be made into a Legendary Hero, but I can also see how that would be terribly unbalanced without a lot of tweaking as all of the main protagonists are sword users barring a few exceptions (Micaiah, Ephraim, Hector, and any others from Japan only releases that I might not know about).

I understand that this idea isn't going to be appreciated by those users who are frustrated with additional alts of characters already in the game, but I think it simply makes sense to have the main lords be represented as Legendary Heroes since you know...they are the focal point of their corresponding games. 

[bottlegnomes]

2 minutes ago, Liliesgrace said:

and any others from Japan only releases that I might not know about

Don't know if it really matters but all the Japan-only lords are sword lords, save Celica. That said, I'm all for tweaking.

[Ice Dragon]

10 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Well...  Isn't help that Echoes had the bad luck of appearing in a period of the game where being Strong was pure luck instead of being builded for victory like Hardin.

Echoes of Mystery introduced Panic Ploy to the game. I consider it to be the first banner that was designed with the prevailing meta in mind.

In particular, that was the point where the developers were likely specifically trying to re-balance the meta, and making a character that is designed to be top of class at that point would run strictly counter to that goal. There was no luck involved with all of the characters on that banner being great, but not amazing.

 

The point, however, is that adding more characters to Heroes doesn't significantly improve awareness of the older, less well known titles. Adding strong or desirable characters to Heroes does.

The new alts have all been designed to be strong or desirable, which helps far more than just adding more characters that aren't already implemented.

 

[Jotari]

13 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Don't know if it really matters but all the Japan-only lords are sword lords, save Celica. That said, I'm all for tweaking.

Well Sigurd might get a legenday sword, but he can also use lances at base, and even has one named after him in Awakening (I think?). So it's barely even a tweak there. As far as other lords go,

Seliph also uses Lances, but I reckon we could actually get away with make him a tome user, maybe the book of Naga as a what if he had Major Naga blood.

Leif, can use any weapon so there's justification for him to use anything. Though as I noted earlier, he could still stand out as a sword user thanks to his Light Sword, depending on how they utilize it.

Going backwards (because that's just how I roll), Alm can use bows and Celica can use magic. I think I saw someone speculating about Brave Celica earlier on and suggest she use Mila's Bow even though she can't use bows in game. Since we already have sword and magic Celica, I think I'd be okay with that, especially if she was released with Alm and they gave him a Duma Bow counter part (failing that I guess he'd get the Luna Bow).

Marth Should always wield swords.

Roy, I could see as a fire mage, though I know not everybody likes that idea given there's a line in his game that says he wasn't good at magic. For me, that's just more reason to make him one! Would make more sense than Glephnir Eirika.

Speaking of Eirika, she appeared as the face of the bride class in Awakening, so she has justification to use bows, lances or staves. Staves might make for the most interesting. Ephraim and Ike don't need to be talked about since they already got Legendary Hero status. Micaiah could be a red mage using Micaiah's pyre to distinguish her from regular Micaiah (on that note, Celica also has the option of Celica's Gale as a green tome).

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Echoes of Mystery introduced Panic Ploy to the game. I consider it to be the first banner that was designed with the prevailing meta in mind.

In particular, that was the point where the developers were likely specifically trying to re-balance the meta, and making a character that is designed to be top of class at that point would run strictly counter to that goal. There was no luck involved with all of the characters on that banner being great, but not amazing.

 

The point, however, is that adding more characters to Heroes doesn't significantly improve awareness of the older, less well known titles. Adding strong or desirable characters to Heroes does.

The new alts have all been designed to be strong or desirable, which helps far more than just adding more characters that aren't already implemented.

 

This is true. If they wanted, they could bulk up the four and three star categories with the likes of Ralph and Leonardo (and I kind of wish they would, just so I don't get Gunther for the thenth time), but people really wouldn't care unless they liked the characters already.

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jotari

[Tybrosion]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well Sigurd might get a legenday sword, but he can also use lances at base, and even has one named after him in Awakening (I think?).

Yeah, he did and it was relatively strong (14 Mt, 85 Hit, 15 Crt).

[Poimagic]

How did a topic about who you think should be a legendary hero devolve into arguements about alts. I’m not a fan of alts, but i’ve learned just to live with it, since anything that happens happens, and there is almost nothing we could do about it. Besides, a company usually wants to do what ever gets the money. Or so I assume

[bottlegnomes]

@Jotari Oh yeah, there's certainly justifications, but if you go by most likely implementation, then all of them save Celica are sword lords. That said, I absolutely wouldn't mind those sort of tweaks, but I doubt they're likely in the initial versions.

1&3: Marth absolutely weilds sword. On that we definitely agree.

2: Forgot about Alm and bows. Celica and magic we agree.

4: Sigurd and Seliph largely prioritize swords, but lances are arguable. Forgot about Sigurd's Lance.

5: If we're taking 4, Leif almost has a case for lance over sword (A lances on promo plus Quan), but in 5, he's 100% sword, even if an interesting implementation.

6: Roy is 100% swords.

That said, I'm all for tweaking them to be more evenly distributed, even if they aren't particularly justifiable. I'd have preferred Ewan because he's new, but I like Eirika more, so I don't have strong feelings one way or the other.

That said, I'd rather have Evayle with the fire sword over light sword Leif.

Also colorless breath Celica because doubling down on bad jokes.

Edited March 28, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Echoes of Mystery introduced Panic Ploy to the game. I consider it to be the first banner that was designed with the prevailing meta in mind.

In particular, that was the point where the developers were likely specifically trying to re-balance the meta, and making a character that is designed to be top of class at that point would run strictly counter to that goal. There was no luck involved with all of the characters on that banner being great, but not amazing.

 

The point, however, is that adding more characters to Heroes doesn't significantly improve awareness of the older, less well known titles. Adding strong or desirable characters to Heroes does.

The new alts have all been designed to be strong or desirable, which helps far more than just adding more characters that aren't already implemented.

 

Fallen Robin doesn't add awareness to anything, most people have played Awakening it only came a few years ago.  They could have added Rinea and Medeus and made them strong and desirable.  That would have added more awareness to those games.  Yes I agree that strong super powered/unique characters get notice, which is likely a fairly strong reason why Reinhardt moved to 5th most popular male this year.  So instead of powerful/unique alts, they could release new characters that are powerful/unique.  Alts add nothing to the brand in terms of making people aware of things.  So you add your 10th Ike who flies and wields staves.  Does nothing.  You make the first flying staff wielder and make it a new character, it gets people talking about that new character and thus curious about the game that character comes from.  The more characters from the game, if they are strong and/or unique, the higher chance that one of them draws a new person in.  

Again there are so many notable characters left to add, so it isn't like they are forced to include an alt or 2 on every banner or the banner will bomb.  Like instead of Cavalry Eirika they could have put in actually just about everyone, cause Myrrh was already the big draw being well known and the first flying dragon as well as the first dragon with Hone fliers.  Instead of Zelgius, they could have added one of many Tellius notables yet to be in the game, after all Miciah was already the big draw along with to a lesser degree Sothe.  

48 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

How did a topic about who you think should be a legendary hero devolve into arguements about alts. I’m not a fan of alts, but i’ve learned just to live with it, since anything that happens happens, and there is almost nothing we could do about it. Besides, a company usually wants to do what ever gets the money. Or so I assume

There is little we non Japanese players can do.  We can't communicate to them via twitter, and we can send feedback but that is going to Nintendo of America, not the people in charge of the game.  We can also not support banners that feature alts, and obviously if enough people do that they would change cause it isn't making them money.  

Well we should get the new trailer soon, I'm not expecting much to get excited about.  Hopefully it will be a pleasant surprise.