Who Should Be a Future Legendary?

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

If they were going to introduce Grima it should have been in his final dragon form, not in Robin's body.  For anyone not familiar with the histories of the origin games, Fallen Robin just looks like another Robin alt.  If dragon form is impossible we should have gotten Medeus, since he has a human form.  Then instead of Celica we should have had Rinea.  

Medeus, Rinea, Hardin.  Now that would have been a banner.  Trillion times better.  As much as I wanted Hardin I had to on principle not summon on that banner cause I don't want to support alts, and nothing is worse than them appearing on new heroes banners.  

You don't fight Dragon Grima in game (you fight on him, which is something you can do in Heroes too). What they added  was an exact representation of the unit that you face in the final battle of Awakening. The only thing they should have done is just named the character Grima. And I think for people unfamilar with the history of the games, they'd find it pretty intriging as to why there's an obviously evil guy that looks like Robin.

And yes, Medeus should have been included by now. Maretta also would have made a good Fallen Hero character.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Jotari

[Vince777]

 

41 minutes ago, Jotari said:

 

And yes, Medeus should have been included by now. Maretta also would have made a good Fallen Hero character.

Gharnef is probably Archanea's most memorable villain however (unless... Camus?) and he's not in the game yet so I'm not sure if it's so surprising that Medeus isn't either. Then again Medeus would make for a more original Heroes character, I suppose.

Mareeta seems like a lock for a 4th Thracia character if any accompanies the three that were revealed. 

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

 

Gharnef is probably Archanea's most memorable villain however (unless... Camus?) and he's not in the game yet so I'm not sure if it's so surprising that Medeus isn't either. Then again Medeus would make for a more original Heroes character, I suppose.

Mareeta seems like a lock for a 4th Thracia character if any accompanies the three that were revealed. 

Gharnef could be interesting in his own right with some kind of defensive ability on his weapon. Maybe he negates all damage from units attacking him with WTD.

[bottlegnomes]

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

If they were going to introduce Grima it should have been in his final dragon form, not in Robin's body.  For anyone not familiar with the histories of the origin games, Fallen Robin just looks like another Robin alt.  If dragon form is impossible we should have gotten Medeus, since he has a human form.  Then instead of Celica we should have had Rinea.  

Medeus, Rinea, Hardin.  Now that would have been a banner.  Trillion times better.  As much as I wanted Hardin I had to on principle not summon on that banner cause I don't want to support alts, and nothing is worse than them appearing on new heroes banners.  

Rinea wouldn't have fit the theme though. She's not a hero, more a random noble who got sucked into everything, and she isn't corrupted so much as sacrificed. Medeus would've fit arguably even less since he's more decided people are dicks than corrupted in any sort of way. Sure, they could've switched the theme, but that's not exactly what we're arguing here to my knowledge.

Also seconding that Grima is a new character in everything but name. There's no point in making Dragon Grima the character because his dragon portrait (which we never see) wouldn't fit in-game and he never appears as an enemy combatant. The Grima we always see and always fight is possessed Robin. At that point, you might as well complain about having both genders of Robin and Corrin, which actually I'm surprised more of the people who dislike alts don't do.

Out of curiosity, who's a character you don't give half a crap about?

Edited March 27, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Vince777]

I probably would have thrown out Celica for Julius and kept both Hardin & Grima.

[HK Motendra]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Gharnef could be interesting in his own right with some kind of defensive ability on his weapon. Maybe he negates all damage from units attacking him with WTD.

Or, it just negates the weapon triangle all-together. Meaning that he'd effectively be a colorless mage

Spoiler

.... too much?

 

[Vince777]

Speaking of Gharnef's Imhullu, I kind of want to see what they'd do with Jedah's 4th turn-only vulnerability gimmick.

[bottlegnomes]

8 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Or, it just negates the weapon triangle all-together. Meaning that he'd effectively be a colorless mage

  Hide contents

.... too much?

 

Nah, probably not. Based on hard CC of Book 2 chapter 1, 5* Loki is basically a colorless mage with 49 HP, 32 attack, 35 speed, 18 def, and 29 res for 163 BST unless I made a mistake somewhere. That's definitely good, but not super terrifying and Gharnef would have lower total stats, and probably less optimally distributed. His res would probably be terrible, too, so just toss a decent mage at him.

5 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Speaking of Gharnef's Imhullu, I kind of want to see what they'd do with Jedah's 4th turn-only vulnerability gimmick.

That was a thing? I could've killed him? That would've made that chapter of Echoes so much easier. :|

[Humanoid]

4 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Nah, probably not. Based on hard CC of Book 2 chapter 1, 5* Loki is basically a colorless mage with 49 HP, 32 attack, 35 speed, 18 def, and 29 res for 163 BST unless I made a mistake somewhere. That's definitely good, but not super terrifying and Gharnef would have lower total stats, and probably less optimally distributed. His res would probably be terrible, too, so just toss a decent mage at him.

That was a thing? I could've killed him? That would've made that chapter of Echoes so much easier. :|

They changed it in Echoes, I believe.

Instead of being vulnerable on every fourth turn, he's vulnerable to every fourth attack. No, I didn't know this either when I played, so I just had to ignore and walk past him.

[Lewyn]

3 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

I want new characters, not new plot devices pretending to be a character.

Rinea isn't in the game in any form right now.  So even if her fallen flame form is an 'alt' of her original, her original isn't in the game at all.  

 

[Vince777]

16 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

 

That was a thing? I could've killed him? That would've made that chapter of Echoes so much easier. :|

AND..... you would have gotten a Dragon Shield out of it. :o

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Rinea wouldn't have fit the theme though. She's not a hero, more a random noble who got sucked into everything, and she isn't corrupted so much as sacrificed. Medeus would've fit arguably even less since he's more decided people are dicks than corrupted in any sort of way. Sure, they could've switched the theme, but that's not exactly what we're arguing here to my knowledge.

Also seconding that Grima is a new character in everything but name. There's no point in making Dragon Grima the character because his dragon portrait (which we never see) wouldn't fit in-game and he never appears as an enemy combatant. The Grima we always see and always fight is possessed Robin. At that point, you might as well complain about having both genders of Robin and Corrin, which actually I'm surprised more of the people who dislike alts don't do.

Out of curiosity, who's a character you don't give half a crap about?

Corrin.  Actually that isn't true, since he/she is maybe my most hated character in the series.  

However since I'm not selfish, if there was no Corrin yet in the game, I would welcome Corrin even over an alt of Lewyn if Lewyn was already in.  Cause I'm not selfish, I realize different people like different characters, and everyone should get the characters they like in the game.  Rather than only a few characters' fans getting a bunch of fun alts while many characters have yet to be in at all.  Oh and that goes for Forseti, even though it isn't Lewyn it is still his body and personage.  So even that Grima is not Robin argument doesn't matter to me.  I would take hated Corrin over Forseti if Lewyn is in the game and Corrin isn't.  Again cause I'm not selfish.  

As for themes, they could have changed the theme a bit.  

[Tybrosion]

9 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

They changed it in Echoes, I believe.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Instead of being vulnerable on every fourth turn, he's vulnerable to every fourth attack. No, I didn't know this either when I played, so I just had to ignore and walk past him.

 

To add to this, there was a vague hint to this given by an NPC in Sage's Hamlet. Said NPC would also disappear and never come back after saying it (because it's implied that Jedah killed him or something), so it's no wonder why plenty of people didn't know about it the first time through the game (myself included IIRC).

4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Rinea isn't in the game in any form right now.  So even if her fallen flame form is an 'alt' of her original, her original isn't in the game at all.  

Yeah, she isn't and I'd prefer if it stayed that way. Besides, as already mentioned, she wouldn't have fit the bill of a fallen hero anyways.

[Vince777]

Lewyn is a lock to be included in the game eventually though. Patience. :)

Not so for a couple of my Fire Emblem favourites, like Bastian, who I feel has lost all steam with Elincia not taking him with her.  

[bottlegnomes]

56 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Corrin.  Actually that isn't true, since he/she is maybe my most hated character in the series.  

However since I'm not selfish, if there was no Corrin yet in the game, I would welcome Corrin even over an alt of Lewyn if Lewyn was already in.  Cause I'm not selfish, I realize different people like different characters, and everyone should get the characters they like in the game.  Rather than only a few characters' fans getting a bunch of fun alts while many characters have yet to be in at all.  Oh and that goes for Forseti, even though it isn't Lewyn it is still his body and personage.  So even that Grima is not Robin argument doesn't matter to me.  I would take hated Corrin over Forseti if Lewyn is in the game and Corrin isn't.  Again cause I'm not selfish.  

As for themes, they could have changed the theme a bit.  

But would you be more likely to roll, and potentially spend, for Corrin (assuming s/he had no interesting skills) over a Lewyn alt? Because it doesn't matter which you welcome if you're not going to spend for either. Granted, Corrin could probably have some nice abilities pretty easily. I was thinking more like Trewd or Glade prior to his meme status, those characters who have no shot in hell of being meta units and are very easily forgotten as characters.

Also, not meant as an insult, more as a suggestion, repeating how unselfish you are just comes across as self-aggrandizing, especially since it could easily be argued preferring some random character that appeals to 2% of the player base is more selfish than being okay with an alt that appeals to 50%. Is 2% being happy and 98% being completely apathetic really better than 50% being happy, 10% being annoyed, and 40% being apathetic? I'm not saying that only characters that fit that situation are left, but a hardline opposition to alts would require that stance.

@Vince777, @Tybrosion & @Humanoid  at least now I know.

Also @ Vince I feel you. The chances of Fred, Rennen, or Percival even getting in anytime soon are virtually nonexistent. And Bastian would be awesome :D

Edited March 27, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Lewyn]

19 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

But would you be more likely to roll, and potentially spend, for Corrin (assuming s/he had no interesting skills) over a Lewyn alt? Because it doesn't matter which you welcome if you're not going to spend for either. Granted, Corrin could probably have some nice abilities pretty easily. I was thinking more like Trewd or Glade prior to his meme status, those characters who have no shot in hell of being meta units and are very easily forgotten as characters.

Also, not meant as an insult, more as a suggestion, repeating how unselfish you are just comes across as self-aggrandizing, especially since it could easily be argued preferring some random character that appeals to 2% of the player base is more selfish than being okay with an alt that appeals to 50%. Is 2% being happy and 98% being completely apathetic really better than 50% being happy, 10% being annoyed, and 40% being apathetic? I'm not saying that only characters that fit that situation are left, but a hardline opposition to alts would require that stance.

@Vince777, @Tybrosion & @Humanoid  at least now I know.

Also @ Vince I feel you. The chances of Fred, Rennen, or Percival even getting in anytime soon are virtually nonexistent. And Bastian would be awesome :D

I wouldn't roll for either.  For example, I'm a huge fan of Celica, but I didn't roll for Fallen Celica.  I also like Ephraim and Ike a lot, but didn't roll for them on legendary banners.  I even avoided pulling for Hardin just cause 2/3 of the banner was alts.   

Also as I said before there are many big characters left to add, I'm not speaking of the most obscure in the game, so alting this much is inexcusable IMO.   My opposition isn't hard at all, I expect and welcome seasonals to be all alts.  However new hero banners which now only contain 3 units, and sometimes only getting one a month, should not contain alts.  Nor should legendary banners.  The majority of additions since the new year have been alts, I think if you are against alts even slightly that would seem offensive.  

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

Lewyn is a lock to be included in the game eventually though. Patience. :)

Not so for a couple of my Fire Emblem favourites, like Bastian, who I feel has lost all steam with Elincia not taking him with her.  

Yes he did well enough on CYL, and he is one of the more known/popular characters from Genealogy so he will be added eventually.  I'm thinking though with all these alts, that many characters with decent followings won't ever be included.  Like will we even ever get Pent and Loiuse?  Not only are alts delaying other characters from being in the game, it may very well be eliminating them especially if it takes their niche or signature weapon.  

[bottlegnomes]

39 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I wouldn't roll for either.  For example, I'm a huge fan of Celica, but I didn't roll for Fallen Celica.  I also like Ephraim and Ike a lot, but didn't roll for them on legendary banners.  I even avoided pulling for Hardin just cause 2/3 of the banner was alts. 

Exactly, so it doesn't matter who you would welcome more. They have the option of a character that most people won't care about, because that's the majority of FE characters to most FEH players, or an alt that will annoy some people, but appeal to a lot more. It's not a hard decision, and while some of us may be annoyed, it is arguably more agreeable to the community as a whole.

As for Grima, your complaint seems to be that he shares a name and appearance. He's noticeably distinct in personality, story, gameplay, and source material. Unless you want him to be the last of the major villains to be added and/or altered significantly from the source material, this is how he had to show up. Because again, this is the Grima that you always fight and that always shows up in dialogue. Do you object as much to male and female Corrin and Robin and adult and young Tiki? They're less differentiated in all of those categories.

42 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Also as I said before there are many big characters left to add, I'm not speaking of the most obscure in the game, so alting this much is inexcusable IMO.   My opposition isn't hard at all, I expect and welcome seasonals to be all alts.  However new hero banners which now only contain 3 units, and sometimes only getting one a month, should not contain alts.  Nor should legendary banners.  The majority of additions since the new year have been alts, I think if you are against alts even slightly that would seem offensive.  

Your opposition to general pool alts is quite hard, which is what most are talking about when they talk about "alts." Seasonal units are their own class of somewhat jokey characters that no one takes seriously from a story/lore perspective and are rarely ever grouped into the alt discussion.

As I said in my example, yeah, there are a lot of major characters to add, but that drops significantly with every new character and even the major characters left to add are most likely significantly less appealing to the community as a whole than the ones already in. Again, what's really preferable to the community, a new character that appeals to a minuscule amount or an alt that appeals to a large amount but annoys a small amount? I'd prefer new characters, and I'd also prefer Percival, Fred, and Renning get added in ASAP and are S++ tier (B+ tier in Fred's case), but that's not going to happen and I don't particularly care one way or the other about alts.

[Lewyn]

You're making some grand conclusions and some assumptions.  Really, people who play feh don't care about the majority of fire emblem characters?  Please.  Also me not pulling for Corrin is fine, cause the people who like Corrin would pull for him.  That's the point.

Also your extreme example isn't what I'm talking about here.  Some super obscure character that only a 'miniscule' amount of people would pull for, that isn't what I'm talking about.  Also there are more than enough major characters with sizable followings to add for the game to last a very long time without resorting to making it 90% alts a month.  At this rate it will be a century before all the popular characters are released.  Finally yes seasonals, something we get every month.  That is more than enough for alts.  Serious alts?  What is that?  Make believe stuff like Glepnir Eirika?  Fine then make the new hero banners more than 3 heroes so you can fit in an alt.  We are getting smaller new hero banners and they are being 1/3 to 2/3 alts.  We are getting seasonals which are all alts, then the  monthly legendary hero which is an alt.  My opposition is incredibly soft, you'd have to be super in love to alts to be okay with getting a single new character a month. 

 

 

[Arthur97]

19 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

You're making some grand conclusions and some assumptions.  Really, people who play feh don't care about the majority of fire emblem characters?  Please. 

Why would they?

[Vince777]

I'd be curious to find out how many people pulled for Gunnthra, literally a character nobody knew anything about versus, say, the numbers that Legendary Ephraim could pull.  

 

[Vaximillian]

On 26.03.2018 at 5:00 AM, Jotari said:

I was happy to get Fallen Ceilca because she used a sword. Though I'd probably rather if characters could equip more than one weapon type.

Fallen Celica made me angry for several reasons.

One, she stole Beloved Zofia from an imminent Brave Celica.
Two, she isn’t even a character. She literally existed for a minute in a cutscene.

[Tybrosion]

30 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

I'd be curious to find out how many people pulled for Gunnthra, literally a character nobody knew anything about versus, say, the numbers that Legendary Ephraim could pull.  

I'd bet that Ephraim got the bigger draw. Gunnthra did place last among the Heroes OCs in CYL 2 yes, even the generic doomsday villain beat her.

25 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Fallen Celica made me angry for several reasons.

One, she stole Beloved Zofia from an imminent Brave Celica.
Two, she isn’t even a character. She literally existed for a minute in a cutscene.

Hey, soulless abominations are people too. Giygas from Earthbound (if anyone reading this doesn't know who he is, don't look him up if nightmare faces aren't your thing) is just as much as a person as..yeah OK, you've got a point.

[Lewyn]

56 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Why would they?

Cause a lot of the people playing Heroes are doing so because they are fans of the main series.

31 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

I'd be curious to find out how many people pulled for Gunnthra, literally a character nobody knew anything about versus, say, the numbers that Legendary Ephraim could pull.  

 

I'd be curious to find out how many pulled on the Morgans banner, and see how it compares to how many pull on the Thracia banner.

[Vaximillian]

3 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Hey, soulless abominations are people too. Giygas from Earthbound (if anyone reading this doesn't know who he is, don't look him up if nightmare faces aren't your thing) is just as much as a person as..yeah OK, you've got a point.

Person doesn’t equal character. Giygas is a overarching antagonist (judging from what scraps I’ve heard about Earthbound). All Witch Celica does is lunge at Alm and get pierced by his dick stand-in Falchion. They are not comparable in any capacity. Celica should have not been on this banner at all.

[Ice Dragon]

35 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

One, she stole Beloved Zofia from an imminent Brave Celica.

Chances are she already had Beloved Zofia even before CYL2 started.