Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Refa]

Just now, Conqueror said:

I reconsidered all my reads in light of you being possibly scum and I still wanted to vote Randa anyway because I thought he was, on balance scummier. Why would I switch to you right away?

I said you were null leaning town, yeah. But I'm not framing everything you did yesterday as "it was scummy all along." I've only brought certain things up because people are bringing up things they thought make you town yesterday. I didn't think they made you town yesterday and I don't think they make you town today - a lot of the things people are bringing up are NAI, and I was explaining as such.

Even if I were to buy the rest of your argument, this is seriously bunk. You're saying you've never ever changed reads as town and seen things in a new light as the game state changed? I call bullshit. I haven't even done a complete 180 here so this statement is laughable.

Because if I flipped scum, it would implicate Randa?  And because I had a guilty on me?

Actually yeah, you're mostly right on this second point.  My bad.

Game state didn't change, Randa flipped town.  Even if Randa flipped scum, the game state wouldn't change because everyone was scumreading him.

[Refa]

Also WRT your responses, it feels like you just stop responding or refuse to acknowledge points that I'm right about lol.

[Killthestory]

ive been waffling on ice all game similat to every slot except the overall level 1 wolves. im struggling because this is my first towngame, and i don't know anyone here. it's hard to get good reads with that in mind, and i havent had the time to put in effort to fix that disadvantage and have a good, consistent presence.

ftr refa was rly right last game, and them being right here is not a bad sign.

[Killthestory]

as for why ive been waffling there i havent had enough to read from him, and i can still see universes where hes town compared to bart which i trust in myself that it's a good hit with a good wagon on him.

[Conqueror]

Just now, Refa said:

Also WRT your responses, it feels like you just stop responding or refuse to acknowledge points that I'm right about lol.

Which points? I'm pretty sure I acknowledged everything, tell me if I missed something.

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Because if I flipped scum, it would implicate Randa?  And because I had a guilty on me?

Actually yeah, you're mostly right on this second point.  My bad.

Game state didn't change, Randa flipped town.  Even if Randa flipped scum, the game state wouldn't change because everyone was scumreading him.

No, Randa being scummy had nothing to do with you being scummy. Why would I want your scumflip to get Randa's?

Okay.

But that's the exact definition of a game state change. I wasn't thinking Randa was town before, hell I thought he was scum and being hard bussed for flaking. How would the game state -NOT- change for most people in this game with a town!Randa flip?

[Refa]

@Shinori I read your Ice case, just going to ask, what makes you think it's more likely to come from Newb!Scum as opposed to Newb!Town?  I agree that his lack of reads and elaboration is bad play, but I don't know if it's scum play.  What bothers me most is the Rapier scumread followed by no opinion on the Conq slot, and the weird change in opinion on me.

Also ISO Conqueror too IMO.

[Conqueror]

I'll get to the page 25 stuff later. Re: Ice Sage. I don't think the posts Shinori pointed out are really a contradiction if you look at them. 

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Randa: He is being defensive a lot, but at the same time he was being ganged up on. I can see him being defensive as scum, but my gut feeling just doesn't think so yet.

RAD/Randa is the one I think the most that is scum. Their posts in D1 were extremely defensive like others said, but i didn't want to vote him first because i wanted to give the benefit of the doubt.

First one: Randa is being defensive, but this is because he is being ganged up on. He could be defensive as scum, but my gut says no.

Second one: Randa is scum. Randa's posts were defensive [implication that being scummy is defensive] but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Most of this is linking defensiveness with scumminess. I already asked Ice Sage about this on D2 and he said this in response:

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I'm not following why you've changed to thinking RAD is scum. Do you think being defensive is scummy? You wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt yesterday, so what changed? You say that the Evan lynch went badly and we lost Via, but what does that have to do with Randa's alignment? I think the reason why this switch is so jarring to me is that I can't see why your opinion on RAD/Randa changed.  If you're saying your gut feeling yesterday was wrong, then why do you think your gut feeling today is right?

On 5/17/2018 at 7:55 AM, Ice Sage said:

I'm was with the others that he's was just being defensive right from the start. I thought evan was more scummy and i didn't want to attack rad because part of me felt like he could've been town and there was a misunderstanding so i went with that. it has nothing to do with the alignment there you're right. I'm not sure if it will be right, but i still don't another mislynch happening, though it could happen again.

...which doesn't really answer whether he thought being defensive was scummy. Well, I'd lynch Ice Sage for other reasons, mostly being how it's hard to get a sense of how he evolves in his reads on any given day. This could be down to being new though so I'm a little wary. What he's provided so far hasn't been very satisfactory though.

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

Which points? I'm pretty sure I acknowledged everything, tell me if I missed something.

No, Randa being scummy had nothing to do with you being scummy. Why would I want your scumflip to get Randa's?

But that's the exact definition of a game state change. I wasn't thinking Randa was town before, hell I thought he was scum and being hard bussed for flaking. How would the game state -NOT- change for most people in this game with a town!Randa flip?

You still haven't really pushed for who are my scumbuddies (if you think it's Bartozio, then you also need to explain why scum are letting scum/scum wagons be a thing and why no one else is voting w/me and responded to me explaining why townreading Randa made sense (and honestly, unless a town slot was a nonposter, there should always be a good reason to townread them otherwise your entire process of reading people is flawed).  I'm assuming the rest is because you haven't read my latter posts.

Because my scumflip would implicate Randa, and like...there's a guilty.  This is one of my two biggest issues with your slot.  One, your lack of pushes today (and honestly, it felt like you only had two pushes yesterday and you dropped Athena coming into today) which seems more likely to come from scum to me (town needs to think about the whole scum team, scum can just push one person every day), and two, your behavior after I got guilted.  I just can't see town being like "Refa got guilted -> Reevaluate scumreads -> Vote Randa anyways".

Because Randa was a consensus scumread.  Obviously scum were okay w/lynching him because almost everyone was okay with lynching him.  So regardless of his flip, you'd be scumreading people on his wagon anyways lol, which is not a gamechanging event.

[Shinori]

14 minutes ago, Refa said:

@Shinori I read your Ice case, just going to ask, what makes you think it's more likely to come from Newb!Scum as opposed to Newb!Town?  I agree that his lack of reads and elaboration is bad play, but I don't know if it's scum play.  What bothers me most is the Rapier scumread followed by no opinion on the Conq slot, and the weird change in opinion on me.

Also ISO Conqueror too IMO.

I feel there is a pretty big difference between his early day 1 posts and his posts that came during d2 moving forward.  There is still a lack of actual content and a lack of scum hunting but his posts seem to 'look' better in the terms of I think being coached to a slight extent.

Newb!town might not understand the fact that too many town reads are bad(imo) and continues with their own train of thought moving forward because they obviously wouldn't quite know how to move forward.

Newb!scum can't fake cases well and has too many town reads but then get's told this is bad by buddies and adds on scum reads.

Also early on Ice stated this is their first NoC game but that implies they've played OC mafia before, which albeit is very different, but some of the basic mechanics are the same; find scum.  Ice has a massive lack of finding scum in their posts.

In my eyes after looking over Ice's posts I get the feeling that they are playing nervously. Or very anxious, you know as if they don't want to get caught.

Most of their posts have a lot of waffling, sheeped thoughts, and no actual reads of their own basically.  A lot of stuff that's allowing them to fade into the background as we go after other people and ignore them.  I'll be frank I do not want Ice alive around *YLO, albeit we are far(I hope) from that point in time at the moment so I don't think Ice needs to be voted right now and I'm fine with lynching someone else after I get caught up but Ice needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

[Shinori]

Newb!town probably don't care about worrying about being caught because, well, they can't be caught.  They could just be wrong and get misslynched for being newer/wrong, and that's not the vibe I get from Ice.

Also, if they are new, their evolution and progression from day 1 to day 2 doesn't seem real and seems very fabricated.

[Refa]

OH ATHENA I realized I totally forgot to explain my read on you.  Basically, I was going to say that you being frustrated at being cased read to me as making more sense as town considering you didn't give a fuck if you got cased in your last two games*.  Also I thought you making cases off of that was more likely to come from town knowing that they're a target, as scum I'd expect you to just get mad for perceived bad cases but not get anything off of them.  I was going to say something else here but I forgot.

*Caveat: I thought your SB case was scummy because it felt like you were mad that he caught you for the wrong reasons (and you didn't fully commit to a scumread on the slot either, which bothered me), but I didn't think you'd get frustrated at me and Bartozio if that was the case.

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I feel there is a pretty big difference between his early day 1 posts and his posts that came during d2 moving forward.  There is still a lack of actual content and a lack of scum hunting but his posts seem to 'look' better in the terms of I think being coached to a slight extent.

Newb!town might not understand the fact that too many town reads are bad(imo) and continues with their own train of thought moving forward because they obviously wouldn't quite know how to move forward.

Newb!scum can't fake cases well and has too many town reads but then get's told this is bad by buddies and adds on scum reads.

Also early on Ice stated this is their first NoC game but that implies they've played OC mafia before, which albeit is very different, but some of the basic mechanics are the same; find scum.  Ice has a massive lack of finding scum in their posts.

In my eyes after looking over Ice's posts I get the feeling that they are playing nervously. Or very anxious, you know as if they don't want to get caught.

Most of their posts have a lot of waffling, sheeped thoughts, and no actual reads of their own basically.  A lot of stuff that's allowing them to fade into the background as we go after other people and ignore them.  I'll be frank I do not want Ice alive around *YLO, albeit we are far(I hope) from that point in time at the moment so I don't think Ice needs to be voted right now and I'm fine with lynching someone else after I get caught up but Ice needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

Ice was scum in his only OC game, which is why I'm not really giving him too much flak since this is his first NOC game.  I'd sheep the rest of your case though, especially the playing nervously part.

Going to be frank: What's your read on Eurykins?  Asking you because I feel like you'd be better at reading the slot than me.  I have five scumreads and I doubt the numbers are 10/5, so I'm wrong on at least one of them.

[Refa]

Oh right, what I was going to say about Athena.  "Wasn't sure what to make of your case on me, which is why I asked those questions before stating my read on you".

[Conqueror]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

You still haven't really pushed for who are my scumbuddies (if you think it's Bartozio, then you also need to explain why scum are letting scum/scum wagons be a thing and why no one else is voting w/me and responded to me explaining why townreading Randa made sense (and honestly, unless a town slot was a nonposter, there should always be a good reason to townread them otherwise your entire process of reading people is flawed).  I'm assuming the rest is because you haven't read my latter posts.

Dude...2 people are voting you. If you're scum with Bart, how would that make scum/scum wagons impossible? There are 12 people alive and I think Baldrick is town. I think most of the people voting Bartozio are town too (I don't actually remember who's voting there, but this is what I remember). 

Look, I generally don't like pushing scumbuddy pairings unless I see something I think in the thread is strong enough that other people can pick up on. Especially with no scum flip. I make cases individually on people. If I'm pushing scumbuddies, you make a good buddy with both Bart and Ice Sage who are my other two main suspects. But what is the point of saying something like that?

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why no one else is voting w/me

Because no offense your case is pretty bad. Do scum always push on the same person? No, and I don't know why you're saying a hypo Refa!scumteam would pile onto me and scumclaim in the thread.

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responded to me explaining why townreading Randa made sense (and honestly, unless a town slot was a nonposter, there should always be a good reason to townread them otherwise your entire process of reading people is flawed)

If this is from your big wallpost, I haven't gotten to that yet specifically, but I've responded to all your other posts about it and pointed out why your Randa townread at that point made no sense. Needing a good reason to townread a slot is precisely why I think your Randa townread was weird to the point of being scummy. I'll see if you have any more to say in your wallpost.

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Because my scumflip would implicate Randa, and like...there's a guilty.  This is one of my two biggest issues with your slot.  One, your lack of pushes today (and honestly, it felt like you only had two pushes yesterday and you dropped Athena coming into today) which seems more likely to come from scum to me (town needs to think about the whole scum team, scum can just push one person every day), and two, your behavior after I got guilted.  I just can't see town being like "Refa got guilted -> Reevaluate scumreads -> Vote Randa anyways".

Your scumflip wouldn't implicate Randa for the very reason you stated below - he's a consensus scumread. Scum would be more likely to go in for the bus for cred than stay off the wagon. In fact, given that RAD stopped posting on D2, I thought that scum were almost guaranteed to be bussing.

I had two pushes yesterday because I had all of 5 posts and I don't believe in throwing dirt on people I marginally suspect unless they're a major lynch candidate or I can get them lynched. Sorry, but this is how I've always played. I wouldn't say I had only two pushes either. I've been trying to poke at some of the nonposters to clarify where my reads stand on them. I feel like I've done more than you on that front so you saying this actually makes me a little angry.

I've already addressed this later point so many times it's driving me insane and I seriously don't buy that this is hard for you to understand. Refa got a guilty on him -> What would be reads look like if Refa is actually scum instead of null -> I could just bypass the guilty by voting RAD anyway, he's scummier on play and avoids stupid role shenanigans with the guilty.

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Because Randa was a consensus scumread.  Obviously scum were okay w/lynching him because almost everyone was okay with lynching him.  So regardless of his flip, you'd be scumreading people on his wagon anyways lol, which is not a gamechanging event.

What? No, this is completely false. People were on and off the Randa wagon for different reasons, no matter how much you want to boil this down to "consensus scumread." If he flips scum, you look for people who were bussing, scum who had prior knowledge of his alignment. If he flips town, people who pushed super hard on him look a little better and you look for scum trying to coast through the wagon.

[Shinori]

I was pretty much hard town reading Eury up until the exchange I had with her earlier today and her reaction towards the end of last day phase.  However even stating that I don't think I'd want to lynch her at the moment and I feel there are other people who take a higher priority.

[Conqueror]

Also @Refa if it seems like I'm only really pushing you today, that's because I've had to deal with 3 separate people defending you and making walls in your favor, as well as responding to all the points you put out in response to my arguments. Normally I wouldn't post this much about only one person. And as for my other scumreads like Bart and Ice Sage, I've already said my piece on them and there's nothing more I could add to what I've already said/what's already on the table that would be convincing to me. Doubly so because they haven't posted today to respond to any of the points against them. I actually think a lot of what people are bringing up against them are null wrt their alignment but I think they're probably scum anyway so I'm not going to dismantle every argument I think is flawed.

[SB.]

Refa's responses are good for me, I don't feel like he's making up his thought process when Conq is calling him out on previous things and I think scum would be more scattered in their responses. I also think that the depth of the Conq push makes him more likely to be town (just on sheer motivation levels this reads like town thinking they got scum to me) even if I think he's going a bit too far on it. Don't want either of these slots lynched.

I get the Ice Sage paranoia but I think everything he's done is justifiable as new!town, and tonally I don't feel like he's been coached. I actually think the way he's changing his read is more likely to come from town who struggles to verbalise his thoughts as well, it's awkward in phrasing but I think I can get where he's getting at looking at the posts all together. I don't know if I'd bet the game on it, but he looks better than the other less active slots.

@Refa, can you explain your read on JB to me? I townread him at the start of D2 but I think the "your flip is important for reads" post at day end is kind of weird when he didn't really bring it up at day start today. I know that he was busy but I feel like if he saw it as important he would at least have had initial impressions and verbalised them. @Jaybee How has the Randa flip affected your reads?

I'm not sure if I verbalised my Eury suspicion very well earlier or not, but to summarise it I think that her reaction to the Refa guilty was scummy. It might make sense if she weren't scumreading Refa beforehand, but I feel like that apparent scumread is at odds with her very neutral tone saying "yeah this is more likely to be scum because of the guilty". I also dislike the focus on the lightkeeper votes not being there when people said they would, because there's no reason that they can't just be lazy. I don't think I voted myself for over half of the phase. Both of these feel more like the kind of pushes scum would make, because it's easier to push on "hard evidence" with conviction than it is to fake how you felt about non-objective data (other posts). 

I also think that their entry to the day is kind of jarring considering she had a lot of scumreads yesterday: discounting RAD, she still had Refa, Athena, Eleminia, Ice and me as varying levels of suspicious. She questioned Ice for not producing new content and disappearing (which she could have directed to Eleminia too, but whatever) and somehow fails to properly address me, Refa and Athena and where her reads stand on them at all. This is especially weird for Athena who had just made a massive wallpost, but all she points out is a question related to his night action? I would just put this down to anger normally (because she sounded mad at Shinori), but her posts at Athena and Ice look calm, so these omissions don't feel genuine to me. @Eurykins where do you stand on these slots now?

There's actually more that bothers me about the slot than I initially thought after writing this up. @Refa @Conqueror thoughts?

##Unvote
##Vote: Eurykins

Still happy with lynching Bart. @Conqueror it's not a direct contradiction, but it doesn't read to me like there was an attempt to sort through the two conflicting viewpoints (Athena looks better/The case on him makes sense) which I would expect from town!Bart in that position. Overall I feel like his listposts just don't show a lot of thought and look more like they're there so that he had content to avoid being criticised (in theory, anyway). I also feel like it's weird that Bart brings up Athena being cautious of the wagon when iirc Athena was not the first person to make a similar point about how they felt about wagons, but I don't think he ever criticised it before. This feels kinda overly selective to me for no real reason. 

This day feels awkward and I want reads from a lot of people now.

[Conqueror]

23 minutes ago, Refa said:

0) So both me and Bartozio are scum?  Do you think these are scum/scum wagons and scum just haven't pushed anything?

1) Cool.  I don't need to explain myself on this one, for now.

2) That's the point.  Why didn't you bring it up earlier?  Why did you think the reaction was okay (or not worth commenting on earlier) and what changed your mind?  You're just backpedaling hard here, and somehow expecting me to think it's perfectly natural lol.

If you were on the fence on me, it makes sense that you'd want to make sure if I was scum or not...That includes analyzing my reactions to the guilty.

Pretty sure Shinori/Ice/Baldrick had suspicions about Kill.  Anyways, my issue is that they're wasting space scumreading each other when they need to get to the scumteam of Conq/Eury/Bartozio/Elemina and they need to do it yesterday

0) As stated above, you have a grand wagon of 2. Let's flip this logic over on its head and bring it to you. You think I'm scum with Bart, right? So right now I'm the only scumteam member pushing a counterwagon to scum!Bart, while the rest of the scum just haven't pushed anything. Is that what you're thinking? When you realize you can't answer this question without a yes you'll realize how bullshit this question is in the first place.

1) Why not?

2) Already addressed this, it's because RAD flipped town yesterday and I thought you made ZERO sense with RAD as buddies. I brought up on D2 that I thought the reaction was null because fake guilty gambits are never useful unless you hit newbtown/newbscum. The reason why I brought up your reaction being scummy in the first place was because so many people kept arguing your reaction was town. Otherwise I would have never brought it up because I don't think it's a strong point. How am I backpedaling at all here?

3) Yeah...and some reactions can come from both scum and town. Do you disagree? Do you find it impossible that someone would think your reaction doesn't make you obvtown? If you answer yes to this then "lol."

4) Why are so many people assuming 4 scum? Anyway, re: kts I don't think Ice has a single suspect, Shinori mentioned KTS in a offhand reads list, and I can't find Baldrick's suspicion rn (not going to dig through all the posts when it's not the main point here.) None of those people were even close to pushing or pressuring him. Also, it's not like SB or KTS got into a huge argument about it. They had a discussion and it seemed like they were already reaching some sort of understanding without you being involved. LOL at your scumteam but okay. I can't believe that you're getting on my case for changing my suspects heading into D3 when you've changed your suspects too. You're going to bring up that things have changed since D2. Well, duh, that's what I said.

1 hour ago, Refa said:

Kind of want to get lynched just to see how you'll justify this post when I flip LOL.

Kill tunneled me because he thought I was SK lol.  There's no reason Scum!Kill would dismiss mislynches, which is not something scum would do in this situation.  Especially Ice, why would Scum!Kill tunnel on Ice for two days but stop voting him today?  Makes no sense.  I mean, yeah I just told Kill I was pretty sure SB was town, because he's more likely to trust me over SB.  Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

Not sure where to put this but uh...what happened to your Athena read?  I legitimately think I missed something here, because you went from hard scumreading him to not and I don't remember when that happened.

If this is a serious offer, then self-vote. If not, then stop playing the martyr.

That doesn't change that his case IN THE THREAD was that you were scum and he was pushing you for being mafia. In any case, even if he genuinely suspected you were the SK, that was still his own suspicion, no? It wasn't a popular view in the game thread but he pushed it anyway. That completely counters your meta point. I'm not going to make up bullshit about what scum!kill would and wouldn't do, but why couldn't he drop Ice Sage? All he has to do is change his mind later. Makes no sense why you think he's locked out of voting Ice Sage just for dropping someone temporarily. As scum, do you always go for every "mislynch" on the table on every day? I think this logic makes no sense.

Okay sure but without giving any points to why you think SB is town why would Kill trust you're right and not town misreading someone? You're not an infallible mafia god and even if you're right a lot of the time, that doesn't translate to people autosheeping your reads, especially as kill is new to the playerbase.

In light of RAD flipping town, Athena actually looks better for how aggressively he pushed the wagon forward like a bullheaded townie. Taking into account that, his decent casemaking, and his responses to me which I thought were satisfactory, I don't think he's scum anymore.

1 hour ago, Refa said:

1) This just seems like "oh, well I don't like the way Refa is playing, so he's scum".  Why are these scummy?

2) Get off my dick, the Randa wagon would have zero fallout because literally everyone was scumreading the slot.  Case in point, today.  Literally no one is being scumread for being on the Randa wagon.  There's literally zero reason for Scum!Me to avoid it and make a light defense (if I was sure that he was town, then I could easily have hard defended him, done nothing to prevent the lynch, looked better today) and you're literally saying "well, Scum!Refa could have done this" without explaining why it's more likely to come from Scum!Me.

None of these people are me though.  I actually did push an obvious town in my last scum game, but that was only after all of my lynch options were exhausted on the previous night.

They're scummy because all of those are convenient for scum!you. Do I have to spell it out? Pushing bad cases is scummy because scum have to bullshit cases on townies. Yes, town can push bad cases, which is why this isn't a slam dunk thing, it's something you look at over the course of the game. Not being super invested in the game state and pushing off-lynches means you can coast by easily to the endgame, which is convenient for scum. Not being proactive and getting your major suspects lynched is scummy because town are going to be proactive and want to lynch scum, especially if they think everyone around them is wrong. Being whiny scum is basically AtE - I don't have to tell you why that's scummy. Not towntelling hard in thread is a scumtell, but I'm not going to push this point as it's subjective.

*gets on your dick* But that's literally, objectively wrong. People like Bart and Ice Sage look insanely scummy now that they didn't do much aside from poke at Randa yesterday. Again, it's not about being on the wagon, it's how you interacted with it. Look, I'm not trying to paint everything you did in a scum light despite you claiming that's what I'm doing. But you saying there's "zero reason" to stay off the Randa wagon is really really really dumb wrong. Personally I don't give a fuck whether you were on or off the Randa wagon, I could see scum doing either. The main point is that I don't think your reason for finding Randa town was genuine. I've made a ton of posts about this. THAT's what I find scummy about you, not the fact that you were off or on the wagon. I've pointed out the posts where you supposedly got a townread off of Randa and they're not enough to get a townread off of at all, especially not for the reasons you described.

1 hour ago, Refa said:

None of these people are me though.  I actually did push an obvious town in my last scum game, but that was only after all of my lynch options were exhausted on the previous night.

Fair enough, but like I said I wasn't bring this up as a point in favor of scum!you. I was bringing up why it doesn't preclude scum!you. And people change their scumplay all the time. Why can't you have done what you did here as scum? I'd also argue that none of the people you pushed were obvious town at the time you pushed them, since they were getting pressure from other people - SB had people looking funny at him in early game. The exception is Shinori, but like I said, that started in D1 and by D2, Shinori was the one casing you and you had to respond.

Uhh, I get the feeling you skipped some of my posts but I can't check at the moment. How's that for "refusing to acknowledge points that I'm right on lol"?

[Conqueror]

SB you're killing me here because I don't see how Refa's responses to me feel like town. Any of the points I bring up against him he dismisses with all-or-nothing statement about things that HAVE to be true about a hypothetical scum Refa. And his points on me are all about "there's literally no way town!Conq" does this shit. I feel like I'm going crazy because apparently no one else sees what I'm seeing?

[Iris]

THE RETURN OF VOTAL BOT SIRI
Bartozio (2): athena_57, Killthestory
Refa (2): Conqueror,  Baldrick
Conqueror (1): Refa
Ice Sage (1): Shinori
Eurykins (1): SB

Not voting: Bartozio, Elemina, Eurykins, Jaybee, Ice Sage

Day 3 ends in 43.5 hours. With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch at deadline.

[Killthestory]

sb i thought eury was town.

[Conqueror]

Oh, you asked me about Eurykins. tbh I'm trying not to let Refa lumping me in with a Eurykins scumteam affect my thoughts. I don't like how she opened the day today as I said before. I have no real read on her other posts. I'll make reading her a priority for you later if that's what you want.

This game has too many nonposters.

[SB.]

2 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

SB you're killing me here because I don't see how Refa's responses to me feel like town. Any of the points I bring up against him he dismisses with all-or-nothing statement about things that HAVE to be true about a hypothetical scum Refa. And his points on me are all about "there's literally no way town!Conq" does this shit. I feel like I'm going crazy because apparently no one else sees what I'm seeing?

I think they're town because I think they believe in their points, so he's either town or scum caught for "the wrong reasons" from his perspective. I feel like he has an answer to most of your points that I find believable from an annoyed town!Refa perspective and I feel like as scum he would be floundering more. Maybe he is fypov, but I don't feel like scum!Refa would want to keep this fight going for as long as it has been either. Usually scum!tunnels tend to be kinda lurky imo, and just because of how sustained this argument has been I think you're both likely to be town from it who are just too into the argument. I think it's reached a point where you're both kind of willing to just go at each other for anything so you're going to handwave alternatives and just say "yeah this guy is maf", which I feel like is what's happening on Refa's side and you're understandably frustrated by it. 

I haven't been townreading Eury kill lol. I wasn't worried about them earlygame because I didn't see the scum intent in their posts then, but I feel like their pushes today and yesterday haven't looked genuine.

[SB.]

13 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

Oh, you asked me about Eurykins. tbh I'm trying not to let Refa lumping me in with a Eurykins scumteam affect my thoughts. I don't like how she opened the day today as I said before. I have no real read on her other posts. I'll make reading her a priority for you later if that's what you want.

Mostly I'd want you to look at her reaction to the guilty for me (specifically how she talks about Refa) because that was where I first started getting worried about her.

[Conqueror]

Hmm. Well, I'll think about it. I dunno, like I said I've been in super painful tunnels with scum before. I'll try to work on my other suspects when I get back but I have a history of being talked out of my scumspects so I'll have to look over stuff again. Not anytime soon though, I'm going to go take a break for today.

Alright. Uh, which part of her reaction to the guilty felt off to you? Refa said his role was obvtown, Eury said she "would not fully disregard Refa's claimed ability as being town-sided only", and then she swaps to Refa. The only weird part to me was this:

Quote

Also, the latter part makes it sound like there's a trapdoor/hinge behind your role that you're not divulging purposely, even with you in the limelight under Shinori's guilty of you. Kind of doesn't make things seem any better IMO? 

Which just feels like a pointless attack to me since it doesn't really reflect on Refa being town or scum - he could be cagey as town in that position too, and as scum he'd have no real reason to claim anything extra unless he was pulling a gambit, so it's not like what Refa did there was scummy.

Otherwise I don't really see what you're seeing? If I were to vote Eury it wouldn't be for this, but more the way she opened today yelling at Shinori. Especially since she said she was busy, this leaves her with basically no input on the wagons of the day. I do find the attack on non-voting players weird/bad but I don't know if this is something Eury does in general - in my one game here, I played with eclipse who did similar stuff iirc and she was town.

 

Also as an aside, I know you're not looking for this anymore, but if you wanted another example where I went for another lynch over the claimed guilty, there was Night of the Vampire 2, when I wanted to lynch Shadoweh over Raikaria, when Dorian had just died and flipped town claiming a guilty on Raikaria.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 hour ago, Conqueror said:

*gets on your dick*