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1 minute ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Yeah. I use the double spurs strats with both Male Corrin and Marth. I was so happy when we got the Dual Spur seals.

Does Bonus Doubler work on ally support stats and the extra ones from Corrin's refine? Were you talking about Legendary Marth (Bonus Doubler) or regular Marth (extra stats from refine)?

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Just now, Tree said:

Does Bonus Doubler work on ally support stats and the extra ones from Corrin's refine? Were you talking about Legendary Marth (Bonus Doubler) or regular Marth (extra stats from refine)?

OG Marth. His refined Falchion grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+2 during combat to all allies within two spaces.

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21 minutes ago, Usana said:

And since he is ally supported he also gives +1 to all stats. Which also stacks if memory is right.

Ally Support itself does not stack, unfortunately. If you have 2 M!Corrins who are both 2 spaces away, it will just be 1/1/1/1 provided to Sharena. From Reddit.

12 minutes ago, Tree said:

Does Bonus Doubler work on ally support stats and the extra ones from Corrin's refine? Were you talking about Legendary Marth (Bonus Doubler) or regular Marth (extra stats from refine)?

M!Corrin's buff is a combat buff. Bonus doubler only works with bonus buffs. Combat buffs are stuff like Spurs, Drives, Goads, Wards, etc. and they do not make a unit's stat turn blue.

Bonus buffs turns a unit's stats blue and Bonus Doubler, Blade tomes, Cleaner, etc. all work based on Bonus buffs, but they do not work with combat buffs.

Edited by XRay

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So I just faced a team comprised of Brave Veronica, Rein, and all four bird laguz. Sounds threatening, right? Too bad this particular player chose to box all of them in and as such left all of them open to get picked off one by one (which they did). Like, what’s even the point of using cavs and the bird laguz if you completely neuter one of their greatest assets (their mobility)?

But hey, if this mode wants to continue to go easy on me I won’t complain. I just found that defense team laughably bad for one that’s actually trying to be a defense team (unlike mine).

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6 minutes ago, XRay said:

Ally Support itself does not stack, unfortunately. If you have 2 M!Corrins who are both 2 spaces away, it will just be 1/1/1/1 provided to Sharena.

Oh, I didn't know that the ally support doesn't stack... I just tested it and it doesn't...

Well... at least the Yato's effect stack, so we can do +10 with double Corrins, and +16 with Double Spectral Spur Corrins

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29 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Male Corrin's refined Yato grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 to the ally that has ally support with him if this ally is within 2 spaces of Corrin. This stacks with the ally support boost, so it will be +5 when within 2 spaces, and +6 when Corrin is adjacent to that ally. If you have 2 Males Corrins, it can be Atk/Spd/Def/Res+12 to that ally.

Minor correction: the Yato bonuses do stack, but the Ally Support bonuses do not. Two adjacent Male Corrins is “only” Atk/Spd/Def/Res+10.

Edit: I didn’t realize there was another page already, my bad.

Edited by LordFrigid

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57 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

OG Marth. His refined Falchion grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+2 during combat to all allies within two spaces.

I haven't promoted an original Marth yet, but the stats do add up from his refine. I've encountered a full team of merged Seliphs in AR (and read about Eliwood teams), but I haven't heard of a team composed completely of Marths.

48 minutes ago, XRay said:

M!Corrin's buff is a combat buff. Bonus doubler only works with bonus buffs. Combat buffs are stuff like Spurs, Drives, Goads, Wards, etc. and they do not make a unit's stat turn blue.

Bonus buffs turns a unit's stats blue and Bonus Doubler, Blade tomes, Cleaner, etc. all work based on Bonus buffs, but they do not work with combat buffs.

Wasn't sure whether the stats Corrin provided were visible or not. Now that I think about it, I guess they couldn't be visible or they wouldn't be able to stack. Thanks for the explanation.

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6 minutes ago, Tree said:

I haven't promoted an original Marth yet, but the stats do add up from his refine. I've encountered a full team of merged Seliphs in AR (and read about Eliwood teams), but I haven't heard of a team composed completely of Marths.

I use OG Marth in my Infantry and Arena teams. He does the job very well! My Soren, who has the Owl Tome effect in his Wind's Brand, and Spectral Bond skill (Atk/Def Bond for A-slot and Spd/Res Bond Seal) really enjoys Marth's company, for a +12 to all stats during combat (+2 from the Tome, +5 from Marth and +5 from Bond Skills).

Corrin grants more stats to his ally, but Marth can grant the stats to all allies instead of only the ally support.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I see. I love Hrid and don't mind investing into Fjorm, so I can definitely play with them more!

Smite and Atk Smoke 3 aren't hard to get. The former is on Mordecai, Bartre, and Effie I think and they're 3-4 star pulls, and Atk Smoke 3 is on Kaze whom I strangely pull a lot now after already making him +10... xP

Yeah, definitely worth it. Hrid doesn't really need anything special since his default kit is so good, and Fjorm really just needs some minor things like Atk Smoke 3 and an A skill that doesn't depend on others being nearby (since you won't always have the option of keeping your allies close). I gave my Fjorm Mirror Stance 2, which comes from 4* Gharnef, so no real loss of investment there.

Mordecai and Bartre are especially great to save for when you need a bonus unit and all you have are free units from TT. Give them Smite and either Fury 2 or Atk/Def Link and you've got yourself a helpful party member who can either buff allies on Smite or, in a pinch, actually fight. Fury is nice on those bonus units if they have a stat that's really high since they can be the target of Chills, which is a big help for the rest of the team.

I'm not a Corrin fan, even with his powerful Support boost, just because so many maps are designed specifically to punish baiting from a safe distance. Put a soft support unit too close and an Ophelia or whatever will get Dance'd and warp over to kill them. If you can't get Corrin (or Marth or Kaden) close to your tank safely, then you're better off bringing someone else.

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3 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I use OG Marth in my Infantry and Arena teams. He does the job very well! My Soren, who has the Owl Tome effect in his Wind's Brand, and Spectral Bond skill (Atk/Def Bond for A-slot and Spd/Res Bond Seal) really enjoys Marth's company, for a +12 to all stats during combat (+2 from the Tome, +5 from Marth and +5 from Bond Skills).

Corrin grants more stats to his ally, but Marth can grant the stats to all allies instead of only the ally support.

High five. I use Marth as my Arena cheerleader since Red Duell A Skill.

His skill set is:
Falchion (special refined)
Rally Atk/spd+
Aether
A: Duell skill
B: Ruse Def/Res (for debuff and Guard applying which is huge)
C : Infantry Breath (gives Spur Def/Res 2 and Steady Breath effect)
Seal: Spur Def/Res 3

I also use him as a chearleader in my Team for Naga Omega Tanking during Astra season with double Spur Def/Res. With his Falchion and Nagas Weapon, he grants her +11 Def/+11 Res/+5 SPD/+5 Atk. And then the 2. Naga grants +7 def/+7 res/+3 atk/+3 spd due to Warding flyer spurs and my Heron Dancer gives out the same. its pretty neat.

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6 hours ago, XRay said:

Saving Orbs to pull for favorite units is no different from saving Orbs to pull for a skill. Summoning for skills is also cheaper since only 1 copy is needed instead of 11 copies to merge something to +10.

Lots of players have shown the discipline necessary to skip Foci and hoard Orbs, so I do not think asking them to set aside a small amount of Orbs for gameplay progression is a tall order. On every Focus thread, the first few pages are littered with "skip" comments, so recommending players to set aside Orbs is already something many are used to doing.

I recommended the team I described because it is cheap, it is easy to use, and I have experienced that climb to Tier 21 with that team, so I can attest to that team's effectiveness.

You cannot just tell players to learn to tactically play the game better. It does not solve their immediate issue and it does not give them anything concrete to start working on. In my opinion, telling players to just get better is even more elitist because tactics does not come naturally to everyone. In contrast, resource management is pretty straight forward as almost everyone has some experience in saving money, and it does not take any brain power to stick to a budget. Super tank teams are also the easiest team type to use because you literally just put your super tank at the edge of enemy range and you wait for foes to suicide on your super tank.

People have emotional investment in characters; people do not have emotional investment in Null Follow-Up. And normal people do not +10 5* exclusives, except maybe at this stage some of the original run with a lot of luck.

Skipping banners does not take discipline. It is not inherently superior. Ditch the unwarranted smugness.

In a vacuum, sure, assuming the player has no other units. Which is a big and almost always inaccurate assumption.

Define the immediate issue. You are telling people to exercise better resource management by trading hundreds of orbs, hundreds of dew and tens of thousands of feathers for like, a handful of weekly grails and flowers. Even making the assumption that this team is the only thing that can get them from tier 19 to tier 21, which is usually not going to be the case, that will literally never play off. This is terrible resource management, unless you only care about Grails - but given that I already have a +10 Marisa and +8 Jamke, I think someone at the glass ceiling of 19 would probably have managed to +10 a single dedicated favourite at this stage. And if the issue is instead to get the player as high as possible, and they haven't been able to get to T21 with their own units, they are unlikely to challenge deep into 21 with a bunch of unmerged guys.

Edited by Parrhesia

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31 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

People have emotional investment in characters; people do not have emotional investment in Null Follow-Up. And normal people do not +10 5* exclusives, except maybe at this stage some of the original run with a lot of luck.

Skipping banners does not take discipline. It is not inherently superior. Ditch the unwarranted smugness.

In a vacuum, sure, assuming the player has no other units. Which is a big and almost always inaccurate assumption.

Define the immediate issue. You are telling people to exercise better resource management by trading hundreds of orbs, hundreds of dew and tens of thousands of feathers for like, a handful of weekly grails and flowers. Even making the assumption that this team is the only thing that can get them from tier 19 to tier 21, which is usually not going to be the case, that will literally never play off. This is terrible resource management, unless you only care about Grails - but given that I already have a +10 Marisa and +8 Jamke, I think someone at the glass ceiling of 19 would probably have managed to +10 a single dedicated favourite at this stage. And if the issue is instead to get the player as high as possible, and they haven't been able to get to T21 with their own units, they are unlikely to challenge deep into 21 with a bunch of unmerged guys.

Then i would suggest those people stop ranting about a mode and stop asking for advice if they arent inclined to invest in other characters that perform much better in specific game modes.
I have my favourite characters too and I am not fond of Aether Raids. And not all of them are suited perfectly for Aether Raids. Prime example being Saizo. But i invest in Characters that i know perform better in this mode, because i do want to excell. If one isnt willing to invest into suggested characters, well in that case, one should stop asking for advice and theorycraft ones Team him/herself with ones favourite units, but stop asking for advice if one is gonna shut it down anyway.

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People looking for better, casually achievable results can get better advice than 'dedicate the next four months of your orbs to NFU fodder'. On the Discord, someone advised that ... I think it was CC Blade Rein (40k feathers, or 20k and a 5* if you already killed the free Takumi) could make a huge difference, and that advice subsequently helped a number of people climb from 19 -> 21. I'm not denying that you can tailor a team to AR, but holy shit, if you're gonna claim 'resource management'... not to get all Arsenal on the topic, but have an eye on your Net Spend.

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I think the best way to reliably climb to T21 is to own more Eir and push hard during a Light season. 160 points per battle will make the climb to T21 far less stressful and a lot more doable.

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37 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

People looking for better, casually achievable results can get better advice than 'dedicate the next four months of your orbs to NFU fodder'. 

That makes no sense. Why would you need 8 copies of any fodder when an AR team is 5 units that should be doing different roles? 

CC fodder costs the same amount of orbs as DC for Sharena, and CC blade vantage would be vulnerable to Aversa and Hardy Bearing.

Edited by Baldrick

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Search me, man.

Everyone has a free Takumi. And honestly I'm not sure I've seen Hardy Bearing in my PvP life, though there's a chance it's happened and just not been relevant to my setup tbf. In any case, it wasn't my idea, but it did get results for its subject at a low investment - as in, not hundreds of orbs/dew/thousands of feathers. Which isn't even my quote on the price!

The point is pretty obvious. There are many ways to skin a cat, and there are ones that take a lot less investment. Certainly less investment than you get back by being at 21 instead of 19.

Edited by Parrhesia

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52 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

People looking for better, casually achievable results can get better advice than 'dedicate the next four months of your orbs to NFU fodder'. On the Discord, someone advised that ... I think it was CC Blade Rein (40k feathers, or 20k and a 5* if you already killed the free Takumi) could make a huge difference, and that advice subsequently helped a number of people climb from 19 -> 21. I'm not denying that you can tailor a team to AR, but holy shit, if you're gonna claim 'resource management'... not to get all Arsenal on the topic, but have an eye on your Net Spend.

thats not the point. What do you tell to this person when the person refuses to use Reinhardt "Because not favourable unit", doesnt want to sacrifce 20k feathers for a Blade tome and Close Counter is hard to get and refuses to use those ressources? Whats the point to give advice to those people? I mean in that case: why are you asking for advice? go figure it out yourself then and do some research.

There is plenty ways to tackle AR. if you arent fine with the advice given then my god do some reasearch yourself. I didnt invest into AR much and climbed to 21 using units i have and did so with a Galeforce Anna and Galeforce Hrid during Light Season when wind and water blessings were present. (the you isnt directed to you personaly but just a general person)
 

Edited by Hilda

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You suggest alternatives that work for them. Now, obviously, if it's clear they have no interest in giving any ground or actually listening to your points, then ditch the topic, it's a waste of time. One guy on Discord once begged for a shortcut to Arena tier 20 ... and after like ten minutes we realised the guy had a set team of four and never used bonus units. Your time is more valuable than that. But, if you (and, again, a generalised you, not SF User Hilda) present yourself as some kind of FEH authority, it looks a little ridiculous if that advice is massive resource sink for minimal gain.

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1 hour ago, Parrhesia said:

.Everyone has a free Takumi. .

Just because it’s free, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value.

Quote

Which isn't even my quote on the price!.

I don’t see anyone suggesting you need to save for months to reach T21.

Edited by Baldrick

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Jesus Christ, read up. This entire strand of argument is about the idea, specifically XRay's, that it's 'efficient' to blow months of orbs into fodder like DC and NFU, to build a high-investment team around two Corrims / two Eirs / a Sharena to climb 20 and 21 a little easier. And not even he's suggesting it's the only way. The full extent of my argument is that; a) I don't think that's a remotely efficient use of resources, b) generally speaking, orbs are spent on units people actually want to use instead of skills, c) getting people to set aside months of orbs is not the small ask he seems to think it is, d) people who do set aside orbs for skills aren't 'more disciplined' or 'superior' players, so e) the overall smugness is unwarranted.

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Aether Raids needs less investment than usual, just with harsher strategic pulling involved. Scoring high in Arena (Assault) makes AR investments look like a pittance (until enough whales decide they need full sets of +10 Mythics, but seems there's not a ton keen on that idea).

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Was about to post about the hilariously bad day I had in AR but don't let me interrupt!

I did get desperate enough to waste my R&R on two songs to have enough Stones to waste on the Offensive Shrines purely so I could get the Lv5 Offensive Fort~ FINALLY I can start getting curbstomped because I suck and not because my stats are so hilariously disadvantaged~

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Yeah, that's a large part of what I love about AR. You don't have to compromise your squad in order to pull out a higher score (bar the bonus units, which are a good system to switch things up, and the mystics). Of course the downside to that is you see a lot of defensive dancers and Beronicas, but, hey.

And interrupt away, tbh. Congrats on Attack 5, things get a whole lot smoother.

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38 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

Jesus Christ, read up. This entire strand of argument is about the idea, specifically XRay's, that it's 'efficient' to blow months of orbs into fodder like DC and NFU, to build a high-investment team around two Corrims / two Eirs / a Sharena to climb 20 and 21 a little easier.

Those are two separate points you’ve drawn a link to. He says he used months of orbs to buy Steady Breath for his dragons, not to build his Sharena/Corrin/Eir AR team. He says you only need one fodder unit plus one Eir for that team, only the Eir if you merge up Nowi.

Edited by Baldrick

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