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Arctic Mafia (Game Thread)

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2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I asked via that question and they gave me a refa quote athena.  Go check it. ^^^^

Wasn't your question about refa though? I'm trying to find if he went over his Marth read anywhere

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5 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

I'm caught up on reading. I'm really exhausted tonight but just a few thoughts:

@Athena_57 when I said some defenses of Bart weren't very townsided I was referring mainly to Marth's which I felt like was sugarcoating Bart's scumminess. This logic of mine is getting a little dated at this point and I'll update it later, but here's what I mean:

Bart is definitely acting scummy. 

Anybody who says Bart is town should be saying "I know he looks like scum, but he isn't really." They should not be giving him a pass or acting like this is a normal way for town to act. And IIRC that's what Marth did in his first post regarding Bart. It wasn't until later that Marth started to treat Bart like he actually needed defending.

@Bartozio I'm not saying you're an idiot, sorry if I sounded offensive, but I'm saying that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that you slipped up early on. And then backtracked afterwards when you realized it was a mistake. And the more you post, the more I can see this as being you as frantic town not wanting to be mislynched, but this is all dependent on your meta of being a frequent D1 mislynch. In a vacuum you look scummy. If another player were doing what you're doing they'd look scummy. And I don't feel entirely comfortable with it. I think it was Marth who said they expected you to be lazier as scum, but IMO how lazy/motivated scum is isn't necessarily as tied to an individual player's meta as it is tied to how they fit in/what is required of them by the rest of the scumteam. 

My posts are starting to be less grounded in reality and more grounded in reality as I remember it. I'm too tired to be doing this right now. Sometime soon I'm going to do some rereading and get my reads straight. It's gonna be a while before I post again though. I'll probably be back in before DL but in case I'm not, I'm leaving my vote on Bart because he's the player I feel like is most likely to be scum. And if he isn't, at least it gives us a lot of info to work with regarding Claire, Dunn, Marth and some others.

I was actually considering making a case on Marth while I was gone today, but some things in his later posts have given me a better feeling about him. Like I said early on that I expected better from him and it feels like he's improved his reads a bit. There's probably more there if I read into it. 

Hard agree w/ Shinori that that is a terrible attitude to take wrt bart. Your viewpoint is more likely to come from a "treat everyone fairly/equally" than a "discern alignment"- mindset. Reads to me more like scum angry someone gets to be scummy than anything.

Why are you scumreading Marth again? Iirc it was bc you wanted his reads to be better, but I don't really see how he's been less productive than others like amy/shinori for example. What makes him worse?

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16 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

care to explain why or are you just gonna play with me

Your argument: "it was really towny"

 

My argument: "No it wasn't"

 

Not sure what else you want me to say, as you never explained anything yourself. It wasn't towny because It's something she does and would do as scum, because I've seen her play before

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17 hours ago, weinerboy said:

I'm not being pinged by Ichigo right now, if there's anything I could take away from his responses it's that he seems to play hardball and I've been privy to this myself in X-site. I'd say he's a little more aggressive than what I remember but not anything super telling. What's the votecount? I feel like perhaps the Bart wagon isn't nearly as big as I was thinking.

No clue who you are btw

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9 minutes ago, Ichigo said:

Not sure what else you want me to say, as you never explained anything yourself. It wasn't towny because It's something she does and would do as scum, because I've seen her play before

i explained it in my post tho

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15 hours ago, Athena_57 said:

This return here + the next few posts from Dunn don't change my mind at all bc it was almost all reactive. He doesn't follow up on his Bart scumread and I'm not really sure what his problem w/ Marth is. Vote stays.

@Ichigo What are your thoughts on Barts later posts? What do you think of my stance that Bart's early behaviour is likelier to come from pressurecreating town than opportunistic scum? What about the sully post you quoted makes you believe Marth is scum? Can you give me some townleans?

 

This last bit was interesting to me! Which defenses are you referring to and what makes them not-town motivated?

Could you clarify your Claire conclusion, I'm not following it

Wdym token suspicion?

Define interesting for me here.

Your conclusion is kinda weird in that you say scum is between the people sussing you but the names you list are both not doing that. From what I recall of you earlier posts you had sully/claire (the ppl voting you) as town so this leaves weiner/refa/via who are all in my townleans list. What do you think of them?

Less sure on Bart, not a townread for me though, I don't care about your stance, I agreed with the following regarding magnificance:

"This post feels off. The bolded part lumps together two players who I feel have been different this game and acts like they're both doing the same thing. And Bart's posts at this point had been very bare-bones, only providing original content when provided. Bart's play up to this point should look scummy in a lot of ways, and people who think Bart is town should be addressing how despite how it looks, it isn't really scummy, instead of pretending there's nothing suspicious there."

And Sully/RADicate are towny

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On 12/30/2018 at 3:31 AM, Vi-astra said:

it was also exactly as I thought it was--she was joking, and people took it the wrong way, perhaps from how she acted in that other game (which was for good reason and I think this subject is best left untouched aside from that) but she's shot up high townread for me and that's both a mix of what I already explained yesterday & this train of thought just lines up with what I would expect from a nonscum claire. the bart vote is also a huge town point up there as it naturally feels like a town feeling that mafia is being opportunistic and pushing her wagon. (definitely something I've done before LOL.) so I'm not voting claire lol.

All this stuff is talking about something different from what I said didn't make her town though

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On 12/30/2018 at 5:31 AM, Vi-astra said:

claire's response to the votes on her is really town. it was also exactly as I thought it was--she was joking, and people took it the wrong way, perhaps from how she acted in that other game (which was for good reason and I think this subject is best left untouched aside from that) but she's shot up high townread for me and that's both a mix of what I already explained yesterday & this train of thought just lines up with what I would expect from a nonscum claire. the bart vote is also a huge town point up there as it naturally feels like a town feeling that mafia is being opportunistic and pushing her wagon. (definitely something I've done before LOL.) so I'm not voting claire lol.

Maybe I Was More Indirect than i thought but my post before this explains why I thought claire was town in the first place and therefore why I would come to the conclusion that her response to the votes on her is town

shinori I was too lazy to explain what refa pinged me for so I just gave you the post he pinged me in

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1 minute ago, Ichigo said:

All this stuff is talking about something different from what I said didn't make her town though

ya sry im a dumbass

also apparently im voting format wrong ##Vote: @Magnificence Incarnate

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that wasnt sarcasm i legit had a dumbass moment sry LOL

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Manual Votals 

Magnificence Incarnate (4): weinerboy, RADicate, Vi-astra, Ichigo
Ichigo (3): Magnificence Incarnate, Athena_57, Bartozio
RADicate (2): Ampharos, XnadrojX
Bartozio (1): Sully McGully
weinerboy (1): Mitsuru Kirijo
Not voting (2): Shinori, Jester's Gestures

12h30m remain. 5 votes are required to lynch, and 8 are required to hammer.

I don't have the bot set up rn so if there are any errors in here, let me know.

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K I'm busy with New Years stuff and I'm p sure I won't be on for deadline or have time to do anything else but

 

Please don't lynch me for no reason I'm kinda annoyed that I keep getting ml'd every game without people even reading what I do or try to banter with me about why they scum read me its annoying to try to reason with people when I'm basically ignored every game.  

 

I'd much prefer we lynch ichigo today because he hasn't done anything other than tunnel on me, he hasn't actually read anyone else in the game and when prodded he responds with an OMGUS vote. People who are arguing him as town don't even give any reasons why other than him needing to produce more content except every time someone enters this thread they keep expecting other people to produce content and point fingers at each other without even trying to do anything themselves and that's really annoying to see. 

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9 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

@Jester's Gestures do you know me? Should I know you? What site are you from? Is there another username you go under? 

I don't know you, but I've heard your name before. I'd be extremely surprised if you knew me. I'm not proud to say it, but I'm from that one chatroom on a Japanese competetive monster fighting simulator website. Yes, I do happen to go by another username.

 

5 hours ago, XnadrojX said:

Mind telling everyone why I'm locktown? Also who are you and why have you played with me before >.>

Your content is exactly what I would expect from a town!xbad. Iirc, you were the first person to state a non-scumread on Bart after his early antics, and that's the kind of perspective I'd expect to see. I also find that I tend to agree with you more when you are town, which I think holds true this game. Plus, you haven't done anything crazy yet. As for my identity, well, that's classified, although I wouldn't be surprised if you guessed.

I'm not really feeling this Marth lynch. Looking at wagon build up, weinerboy was parked on Marth for a while, RAD came in with a flimsy gut-read that even he seemed unsure about. Via lynching for mostly "low effort" I think? And unless I am missing something, Ichigo straight up OMGUS votes. It doesn't come off as extremely town motivated to me.
##VOTE @Ichigo

I'll be on and off (probably lurking) until deadline.

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5 minutes ago, Jester's Gestures said:

I don't know you, but I've heard your name before. I'd be extremely surprised if you knew me. I'm not proud to say it, but I'm from that one chatroom on a Japanese competetive monster fighting simulator website. Yes, I do happen to go by another username.

 

Your content is exactly what I would expect from a town!xbad. Iirc, you were the first person to state a non-scumread on Bart after his early antics, and that's the kind of perspective I'd expect to see. I also find that I tend to agree with you more when you are town, which I think holds true this game. Plus, you haven't done anything crazy yet. As for my identity, well, that's classified, although I wouldn't be surprised if you guessed.

I'm not really feeling this Marth lynch. Looking at wagon build up, weinerboy was parked on Marth for a while, RAD came in with a flimsy gut-read that even he seemed unsure about. Via lynching for mostly "low effort" I think? And unless I am missing something, Ichigo straight up OMGUS votes. It doesn't come off as extremely town motivated to me.
##VOTE @Ichigo

I'll be on and off (probably lurking) until deadline.

Ew now I'm mentally checking off a list of everyone who calls me XBad.

 

Also happy new years for everyone in my timezone A.K.A No One

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6 hours ago, Shinori said:

You have to vote with the proper syntax.

The above is a quote from refa, not Via.  This one line actually is what stood out to me the most.  Kinda dislike this.

I may have to sub out but im trying to not do that.

I'm not a fan of this.  In all honesty this is now how normal town act but it's how normal bartozio acts.  Bart was scum in a recent game though I think and it might be worth the effort to compare some of his gameplay during this game to him during that game.  We have less than 24 hours though to go looking through another game, and i don't even remember which game it was exactly...

I do agree that Bart's play so far has been scummy, I just heavily dislike the mentality that came from Sully's last post, specifically what I quoted as it makes bart look worse without factoring in meta.

I most likely missed it but @SullyMcGullyWhat are your thoughts on Claire V Bartozio that happened recently?

OK so I feel like the portion of my post that you quoted is being taken out of context. It was in response to Athena asking me to expand on how I felt like some defenses of Bart weren't townsided. So basically, that's not me saying Bart is scummy. I already said that in other posts. That was me commenting on other player's defenses of Bart. If you want to see me factoring in Bart's meta then look at my other content on him, where I'm actually trying to read him and not just mentioning my case on him in relation to something else.

Will get back to you on Claire vs. Bart after reread.

5 hours ago, Athena_57 said:

Hard agree w/ Shinori that that is a terrible attitude to take wrt bart. Your viewpoint is more likely to come from a "treat everyone fairly/equally" than a "discern alignment"- mindset. Reads to me more like scum angry someone gets to be scummy than anything.

Why are you scumreading Marth again? Iirc it was bc you wanted his reads to be better, but I don't really see how he's been less productive than others like amy/shinori for example. What makes him worse?

I have repeated myself on this already. I'm not scumreading Marth. Marth is being Marth, which, as I remember it, generally means having really weak reads at the start of D1 which improve as time goes on. If they didn't improve, he'd be scummy. And  it wasn't his production that bothered me, he lives on the other side of the world and I don't expect him to post frequently or anything. It was his actual content. It seemed illogical. 

I'm going to reread most of the game and update my opinions.

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OK I'm getting interrupted by work right now but here's what I've got so far:

On 12/29/2018 at 4:03 AM, Bartozio said:

Fair enough.

I'd advice you to make sure your vote is either on who you suspect most or the person you're currently focussing on. That said:

##Unvote

##Vote: @Mitsuru Kirijo

Btw, thoughts on Weiner so far?

Notice the use of the word advice here. Bart giving Amy advice? It feels kinda tongue-in-cheek but it gives off a very cocky vibe. That cocky vibe defines Bart's early game. He's extremely confident. 

On 12/29/2018 at 4:55 AM, Bartozio said:

K, fair enough. I liked Weiner's play so far, and I think the only agenda he could have for not joining the Claire band wagon is that they're both scum, which is a scenario we might as well consider after lynching Claire.

So let's make Yolo-sempai proud and clap us some Claire I guess?

If by love you mean "I had a great rvs post all thought out, but then the game already got half serious before I arrived and now I don't wanna post it anymore. Oh god, am I getting lynched for going to bed before deadline again", then yes.

Also like... lol, it's rvs, what were you expecting other than easy accusations? It reminded me a bit of Honneybottoms (played by Walrein, which may or may not have been Amphy, I suck at name changes) in CupHeads mafia going an entire phase without moving off an rvs vote, even though they interjected relevant game thoughts (they were scum, and yes it's early D1, but it started similar). Currently, it being probably more personality than allignment driven and their opinions not being bad is giving me a slight townlean there though.

What are your thoughts on Amphy, Weiner and Claire?

He's thinking way too far ahead in the bolded section. Even if the paragraph afterwards is a joke, I find it hard to believe this one is. However, Bart is right. This jump here is so stupid. I'm not sure scum!Bart would be that dumb. But I don't see why town!Bart would do this either, and I think Claire is justified in being defensive in response to this. What Bart is suggesting here is getting an associative read by lynching a player off of an early post which they haven't even defended yet. It definitely sounds like he has an agenda.

On 12/29/2018 at 8:55 AM, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Gonna town read the Dutch bros(bart and athena) for having opening posts that seem very gamesolvey. Their tone feels like they have a strong conviction behind their posts. 

 

I thought amph's case on Claire was reasonable but Bart brings up a good point that she did the same thing in the last anon game that she played here as mafia and then suck with the rvs vote so I guess the Claire vote is not telling. 

 

Kinda want a response from Claire before I put my thoughts down on her but I didn't like soup presenting a counterargument to amph without really taking reads in a different direction.  This isn't much to go on but ##unvote ##vote: @weinerboy

I actually feel better about this post on reread. The first paragraph feels better to me because I feel like I can see now how Bart seemed to be so confident early on, and I don't have much of an issue with the second one anymore. Which means my case on Marth can probably be laid to rest. Which is what Dunn was leaning on for his case. I already have other issues with Dunn. Maybe when I finish reread I'll vote him.

Also I totally agree with Jester that Bart claiming he "grilled" Amy is a complete mischaracterization. They just had a passing conversation. Bart was a little condescending, but I don't feel like there was any friction there at all.

Will be back before deadline and finish reread.

 

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