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Book V Speculation and Discussion Thread


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Well. That was uh... Pointless. Looks like Nott is dumb in the one area where Dagr is smart. Though Nott's one area of naivete is kind of funny, for the most part, I really don't like her. Ugh, what a jerk! She was so rude to Dagr. >=(

I kind of liked the romance thing between her and Otr, but that was cut waaaaay short. And Otr shows his smarts again. Cool.

Seriously, though. That conflict between Dagr and Nott resolved WAY too quickly, and ultimately, really made it feel pointless. I like the twist though, about how the summoner is now Otr's captive, and perhaps will make it all the way to Fafnir. I hope so...buuuut I'm worried that we'll be rescued too quickly. The summoner seeing Yellow Kiran in the throne mirror would be cool, and open the door for a lot of potential ways this could go. Again, though, that may not happen.

Also, I don't trust Nott. She's waaaay too easily manipulated for her to be trustworthy. Sure, Dagr attacked us first, but her only flaw is her impetuousness, so she's a lot more reliable (and she's already decided she doesn't want to attack us anymore.)

Also, I guess Alfonse has an official nickname now.

Also, it's weird, but this chapter is pushing me to ship Alfonse with Dagr a bit. Hmmm but he might not be happy in that relationship, so nevermind.

Also, I can see why Nott's a bit desperate for a guy. It seems like FEH's population has twice as many females as males, so it's kind of slim pickings.

Edit:

@Othin

No, Eitri did not come with us. She's back home working on inventions and stuff.

Edit again:

Also, I meant to say this earlier, but I see why the giants are having a succession issue... (Neither heir is really qualified...)

Edited by Mercakete
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28 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Well. That was uh... Pointless. Looks like Nott is dumb in the one area where Dagr is smart. Though Nott's one area of naivete is kind of funny, for the most part, I really don't like her. Ugh, what a jerk! She was so rude to Dagr. >=(

I kind of liked the romance thing between her and Otr, but that was cut waaaaay short. And Otr shows his smarts again. Cool.

Seriously, though. That conflict between Dagr and Nott resolved WAY too quickly, and ultimately, really made it feel pointless. I like the twist though, about how the summoner is now Otr's captive, and perhaps will make it all the way to Fafnir. I hope so...buuuut I'm worried that we'll be rescued too quickly. The summoner seeing Yellow Kiran in the throne mirror would be cool, and open the door for a lot of potential ways this could go. Again, though, that may not happen.

Also, I don't trust Nott. She's waaaay too easily manipulated for her to be trustworthy. Sure, Dagr attacked us first, but her only flaw is her impetuousness, so she's a lot more reliable (and she's already decided she doesn't want to attack us anymore.)

Also, I guess Alfonse has an official nickname now.

Also, it's weird, but this chapter is pushing me to ship Alfonse with Dagr a bit. Hmmm but he might not be happy in that relationship, so nevermind.

Also, I can see why Nott's a bit desperate for a guy. It seems like FEH's population has twice as many females as males, so it's kind of slim pickings.

Edit:

@Othin

No, Eitri did not come with us. She's back home working on inventions and stuff.

Edit again:

Also, I meant to say this earlier, but I see why the giants are having a succession issue... (Neither heir is really qualified...)

Huh, okay. Wonder when she'll return.

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4 minutes ago, Othin said:

Huh, okay. Wonder when she'll return.

I think we were supposed to go back to her after getting Gramr, so we'll probably see her again after that.

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

All the more reason to pair Alfonse with Dagr I'd say! 

That's pretty horrible, wishing a romantic relationship that the person won't be happy with on someone...

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Summoner = Princess Peach
Alfonse and Sharena = Mario and Luigi

You cannot change my mind on this.

I'm also sad about Nott. Dagr at least seems funny enough and written pretty differently from the other FEH women. Nott's uh ... well, apparently IS doesn't even like giving us the illusion that a female character can be evil with how quickly that was resolved. I would've actually liked it if the weird forbidden romance shit between Nott and Otr was legit or at least went on a bit longer instead of Otr immediately revealing that he was just using her. Bottom tier writing 3/10 would not recommend

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6 hours ago, Othin said:

so I'm glad to finally get a character assuming something different.

That was a nice change of pace for me too.

6 hours ago, Othin said:

Isn't Eitri still with the party? She didn't get any lines,

Eitri never left the forest: she's waiting for the Heroes to get Gramr back.

As for Nott's deal... I really wasn't expecting that and I'm not sure if I like it. On its own, "gets crushes easily" could be played for genuine comedy, but if it means she's willing to murder people for someone she knows is evil while badmouthing her sister... yeah, not a fan.

I could also be feeling awkward about this because Yu-Gi-Oh! SEVENS did the same thing a few weeks back, so there's that too.

As for the overarching plot, I actually wasn't expecting Kiran to get kidnapped, nor for the Heroes to lose the MacGuffin, which is a nice change of pace. Considering Kiran isn't in a dream this time, hopefully it means we'll be seeing more of Fafnir and Otr too. It goes without saying, but there's more going on with those two than past villains so that insight would be appreciated.

Also, we get four parts out of five worth of plot again. I hope this is the new default going forward (and we get five out of five parts worth of cutscenes in the future too)!

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12 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

apparently IS doesn't even like giving us the illusion that a female character can be evil

Hel, Freyja, and the dark fairies exist, though both had hints of "feel sorry for me" in there (ESPECIALLY Freyja and the dark fairies) which is kind of frustrating since it feels like the girls get excuses made for them because IS wants to protect them (while the guys don't always even have any explanation given besides "evil because bad" like with Surtr.) It'd be nice if all the villains (including males) had their reasons without IS trying to babyproof everything (for the girls.)

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Fantastic, they're both idiots. Jotunheimr is fucked if their future ruler candidates are these two. Crazed ambition of Surtr and Fafnir are one thing for a realm to fall to ruin or cause the world to fall to ruin, but one taking love at first sight seemingly to an extreme and being that easily manipulated and the other having no qualms provoking people for fights for the sake of fighting or proving her own strength... Yeah, Jotunheimr is fucked. We don't even know what their mother or father are like aside from Dagr's claims that their mother talks about Nott all the time, but if they're meatheads too, well, for the third time, Jotunheimr is fucked.

Silly generalizing aside, Nott is eh? Starting from the shallower parts, something about the shading of her and her twin's muscles make them look off. It's more noticeable with Nott than Dagr. As a unit, Hrimfaxi having Bonus Doubler to pair with its Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 when her HP is >= 25% is all right. There is no way of neutralizing a foe's penalties which you probably would not want to in most cases, but there are some ways to either even or make sure that a foe cannot reverse their penalties that far like with F!Corrin's unique refined Gloom Breath, CYL Micaiah's Light of Dawn, Saizo's unique refined Star, or the inheritable Plegian festival weapons that only Plegian M!Kris, Raphael, and Tharja have and by not neutralizing their own penalties, weapons that add penalties to the user's attack or exploit the fact that their foe has a penalty like Arvis's unique refined Valflame, Gangrel's Levin Dagger, Gunnthra's Blizzard, Matthew's unique refined Spy's Dagger, Saias's unique refined Wargod's Tome, Ursula's unique refined Blue-Crow Tome, or a dagger unit with Broadleaf Fan will work, but perhaps will have to go through a much higher defense or resistance stat. Neutralizing bonuses on the other hand are more common with inheritable Dull Close/Ranged and Lull X/Y skills and some weapons carrying those effects or similar ones. Both sisters at least get Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 or are movement points, but it is easier or easier to find a way to shut down Nott's Hrimfaxi's Bonus Doubler effect than it is to shut down Dagr's Skinfaxi's penalty reversing.

It has only been one chapter. That should be noted alongside with FEH operating on thirteen chapters per book. After what happened with this chapter and Nott's introduction, she seems like the looks dignified and acts mostly dignified, but is an airhead. Also, she's an idiot. They're both idiots, but there can be charm points to them being idiots. An elegant-looking airhead can work, except what she did was capture a hostage and hand over that hostage and a relic or returned since Gramr did belong to Nidavellir a relic to someone without as far as we know, consulting anyone and in particular, her mother assuming Jotunheimr only has a queen as its ruler and her father possibly not being alive or not even existing since we do not know if maybe Jotunheimr in Heroes are like Amazons or maybe they bud off each other like Gorons. And why? Because she was love-struck with the person who told her to do these things. We don't even know for how long and if it's not the usual sibling jabbing, but true to what Dagr said, then Nott did all these things right after meeting, looking at Otr. Speaking of which, the men of Jotunheimr -- assuming they exist -- have to look like the ugliest of goons and with personalities that make Surtr look like father of eternity if Nott's that desperate.

Maybe it will get better next chapter or two, but Nott's first impression was not good. Dagr can be reduced to comic relief where if she didn't exist at all, the same thing could have played out with Nott as the only princess of Jotunheimr. Alfonse probably would have felt something was off and we still end up with the conclusion of Nott is seemingly and disturbingly easy to manipulate because she easily falls in love with a half decent looking guy. To which at this point, Nott can be reduced to comic relief as well, but not in a funny way that Dagr is, instead, in the maliciously incompetent way where you can sort of laugh at how stupid she is while also being very concerned or taken aback by her actions because she can easily harm others just by existing.

Dagr's a doofus. That was the first thing that came to mind after meeting her: she is a big doofus. She reminds me of Seo Yuzuki from Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun as this wild child who is straightforward, intentionally or unintentionally rude, and sometimes seems to lack an awareness for things, delicate things. Later on with this chapter, a bit of Lissa I guess from feeling that Dagr has an air of mischievousness and both of them being pretty headstrong, well-meaning people aside from Dagr attempting to kill Alfonse and friends when they first met. Incidentally, Lissa and Seo are both younger sisters and I think that was probably what made me connect them with Dagr as well. To quote Nott, a younger sister who is a "troublesome pest." She teases people and her interactions with Alfonse makes me think of her adopting herself as his little sister. I really like her. She is stupid fun.

Helbindi was the one people noticed his skills reflected what was currently happening in the story. Dagr and Nott sort of have this too, but more so as reflections of their character at the time. When you fight Dagr, she has Pavise, Sturdy Blow 2, Close Call 3, and Atk/Def Oath 3. Dagr wanted to defeat Alfonse, Reginn, and friends to prove that she was strong and should be the next queen. If it comes to it, someone might die, but the skills she had could say she was looking for more of duel as proof of strength than to kill. Pavise and Close Call make sure she doesn't take too much damage, specifically with Pavise where she could have been given a special to do more damage or heal, instead, she was given something to reduce even more damage. As an infantry unit, she could have Sturdy Impact and while it could be said that they didn't want her to be too obnoxious to deal with, it could also be said that she was holding back with Sturdy Blow 2. Oaths work by granting stat bonuses when the user is adjacent to an ally, so Dagr gets stronger when she's with others. An oath is a declaration of one's truth-backed intent and she gave her word that she would defeat Alfonse, Anna, Reginn, Sharena, and whoever.

When you fight Nott, she has Luna, Distant Def 3, Spurn 3, and Odd Atk Wave 3. Luna, Spurn, and Odd Atk Wave all reflected her desire to kill Alfonse and the others. Luna bypasses defense in some way and her planned opening was to kill Alfonse and the others in their sleep before Dagr noticed something was strange today. Also, Nott means "night" and Luna means "moon". The moon shines at night. Spurn is damage reduction and partial Wrath; reduce damage and deal damage when at a certain HP threshold. Spurn itself can mean to reject and negatively so with disdain or disrespect. Shaky sibling relationship aside, Nott rejected the appeals of Alfonse, Dagr, and Reginn and with Dagr specifically, Nott ignored, insulted, and rejected the reality that Dagr was trying to have her face that she was being played for a fool. A spurned lover is also not something anyone would want to deal with. Waves work depending on the turn being odd or even, so regardless if Nott had allies or not, she will get a stat bonus on the right turn. Working only on odd or even turns, though, could point to something being off, "odd" about Nott. Distant Def is the odd one out here where I guess you could say it was her trying to deflect words directed at her and words come from a distance.

Welp, that's it for my rambling about the Jotunheimr twins.

Edited by Kaden
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19 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Summoner = Princess Peach
Alfonse and Sharena = Mario and Luigi

You cannot change my mind on this.

I'm also sad about Nott. Dagr at least seems funny enough and written pretty differently from the other FEH women. Nott's uh ... well, apparently IS doesn't even like giving us the illusion that a female character can be evil with how quickly that was resolved. I would've actually liked it if the weird forbidden romance shit between Nott and Otr was legit or at least went on a bit longer instead of Otr immediately revealing that he was just using her. Bottom tier writing 3/10 would not recommend

And Sharena wins by doing absolutely nothing. Meanwhile Anna is Wario and chasing after money

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5 hours ago, Hilda said:

And Sharena wins by doing absolutely nothing. Meanwhile Anna is Wario and chasing after money

Oh gosh.

(Also, does this make Sharena Princess Daisy or Toadette? Maybe she's Toad because she gives the tutorial and is always cheery. "Alright!")

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19 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Oh gosh.

(Also, does this make Sharena Princess Daisy or Toadette? Maybe she's Toad because she gives the tutorial and is always cheery. "Alright!")

Sharena is Luigi.

 

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If I'm being completely honest, the next few chapters (before the inevitable midpoint trailer) better do something interesting. This might be premature to say given we're at Chapter 5 of a 13-chapter story, but this might be the quickest I've ever gotten bored with a Book.

The Jotnar siblings are honestly the first time I actually felt entertained, since at least their interactions with the Askr siblings were a little different compared to most characters, and Nott being an airhead underneath an elegant exterior was at least a nice subversion of the typical older sister trope.

But the Nidavellir side of things has been....so boring so far. Fafnir's dialogue is the same complete lunatic kind of dialogue Surtr has and I'm not sure if the inevitable reveal of him being brainwashed will save him. Otr I'm not sure about. He's definitely more important than a lackey, but I'm just hoping there's more than him being a simp.

However, if I had to name probably the biggest ball and chain on this book so far, it's Reginn. Again, hopefully this might just be premature, but she is completely boring as a character. Every line out of her mouth is some of the most generic "little sister" dialogue I've ever heard in my life. I feel like even Peony's "Sharena 2.0" dialogue wasn't this bad. At this point, I'm practically praying that something happens to steer her character in to a more interesting direction, because the trailer pretty much spoiling what her story is going to end up being isn't giving me high hopes.

Didn't mean for that to be sort of a rant, but I had to get that off my chest. It really feels like, even comparing to previous stories, Book 5 is just progressing super slowly, and it doesn't help that we're already seeing rehashed plot-lines. Seriously, the Summoner gets kidnapped again? We literally just went through this last book.

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Clearly you need to do what I've been doing and stop giving a shit about the story entirely. They always find a way to disappoint in the end.

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34 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Clearly you need to do what I've been doing and stop giving a shit about the story entirely. They always find a way to disappoint in the end.

Yup, it’s way better and easier to just make fun of this shit rather than take it seriously.

And for what it’s worth, I rank Fafnir above Surtr just for this face:

Spoiler

heM3q2A.jpg

His shit eating grin portrait is also pretty great.

Plus, neither of those two are even the worst villain since they’re at least good at chewing the scenery. That honor goes to Hel, who wasn’t even entertaining when going on about how evil she is

Oh and if anyone wants an easy way to never take Fafnir seriously again, his English VA was also Spitz the cat in WarioWare Gold. Coincidentally, the English VAs for both Otr and Dagr were also in that game (which IS developed alongside Nintendo EPD).

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A funny thought is that so far, four out of the six new characters are comedic in some way, Reginn is a dork, Fafnir is a murderous ham, and the Jotenheim sisters have already been discussed. Quite a contrast when you consider book IV gave a light-hearted tone in the intro, whereas the book V intro literally contained a mental breakdown. Another thing to note, people are complaining/joking about Kiran's capture, it was Alfonse who was captured in Book IV.

On a seperate topic, I really wonder if Book V will contribute in anyway to the overarching plot, at this point I think most would agree it would have been better if the dead Alfonse twist was real, especially since it would have justified Book III's sudden ending to a degree

Edited by Aedan7479
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1 hour ago, Aedan7479 said:

Another thing to note, people are complaining/joking about Kiran's capture, it was Alfonse who was captured in Book IV.

On a seperate topic, I really wonder if Book V will contribute in anyway to the overarching plot, at this point I think most would agree it would have been better if the dead Alfonse twist was real, especially since it would have justified Book III's sudden ending to a degree

I was leaving it alone, but I'll go ahead and say it now: there's nothing to prove that Alfonse was captured. He may have just woken up before everyone else, and Kiranfonse could have been (and I think he was) a construct of Freyja's using Kiran's own mind.

Also, I'm glad Alfonse isn't dead. It wouldn't have made sense with the way IS is constructing the books if he'd died. (Each book is fairly self-contained so that new players can jump into the newest book without needing to go to the previous ones.)

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3 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Also, I'm glad Alfonse isn't dead. It wouldn't have made sense with the way IS is constructing the books if he'd died. (Each book is fairly self-contained so that new players can jump into the newest book without needing to go to the previous ones.)

I'm also glad Alfonse isn't dead, in the sense that I don't want to see one of my favourite characters die, and I understand that IS wants to make each book independent, but is has caused ongoing plot points to suffer, the elephant in the room being Bruno/Embla's curse. All this isn't even mentioning the xenolouges, which new players wouldn't know when to play in conjunction with the main story (I'm a victim of this, I got back into FEH during book III and thought Xenolouge 4 was a prolougue to Book II). Sorry if I'm rambling

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1 hour ago, Aedan7479 said:

I'm also glad Alfonse isn't dead, in the sense that I don't want to see one of my favourite characters die, and I understand that IS wants to make each book independent, but is has caused ongoing plot points to suffer, the elephant in the room being Bruno/Embla's curse. All this isn't even mentioning the xenolouges, which new players wouldn't know when to play in conjunction with the main story (I'm a victim of this, I got back into FEH during book III and thought Xenolouge 4 was a prolougue to Book II). Sorry if I'm rambling

I don't think you're rambling. Also, I don't think these overarching plot points are problems. I think it's just a matter of waiting for them to be reintroduced into the main story. Bruno's search for a cure will only be resolved once we face the four dragons (which, classically, is toward the end of the story. IS likes having 4 major foes like that, such as the Four Fangs and the Four Riders of Daein) since the main issue seems to have to do with the dragon Embla itself. (Embla (dragon) hates Askr (dragon) and that translates into the curse the imperial line has, since we could see that whenever Veronica would get possessed, she'd have a singular goal: "kill Askr.") So, Veronica's blood will probably act up at some point in the future a la FE4's bit with Julia and Alfonse and Sharena will be all "but we're friends!" but have to subdue her and then get rid of the root of the problem (Embla dragon) and maybe have to fight Bruno in the same way.

Anyway, basically, we can see where this is going. It just hasn't happened yet, so it's best to be patient.

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21 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I was leaving it alone, but I'll go ahead and say it now: there's nothing to prove that Alfonse was captured. He may have just woken up before everyone else, and Kiranfonse could have been (and I think he was) a construct of Freyja's using Kiran's own mind.

Also, I'm glad Alfonse isn't dead. It wouldn't have made sense with the way IS is constructing the books if he'd died. (Each book is fairly self-contained so that new players can jump into the newest book without needing to go to the previous ones.)

I'm not saying Alfonse should have died, but IS making all the books independent is causing more harm than good. It's because of that that they rush every ending and any lingering questions are swept aside.

Honestly, the only real interesting thing going on right now is Lif gathering enemies from different books. That is more intriguing than anything else right now.

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On 3/9/2021 at 8:42 AM, Mercakete said:

IS likes having 4 major foes like that, such as the Four Fangs and the Four Riders of Daein) since the main issue seems to have to do with the dragon Embla itself. (Embla (dragon) hates Askr (dragon) and that translates into the curse the imperial line has, since we could see that whenever Veronica would get possessed, she'd have a singular goal: "kill Askr.") So, Veronica's blood will probably act up at some point in the future a la FE4's bit with Julia and Alfonse and Sharena will be all "but we're friends!" but have to subdue her and then get rid of the root of the problem (Embla dragon) and maybe have to fight Bruno in the same way.

I didn't think of that actually! I guess with all the Norse theorizing I forgot Fire Emblem itself has some common tropes too 😛 Thanks for the reminder!

On 3/10/2021 at 3:53 AM, Sentinel07 said:

Honestly, the only real interesting thing going on right now is Lif gathering enemies from different books. That is more intriguing than anything else right now.

This is probably going to be the overarching plot for now. Though with the Bruno talk I'm curious if Lif will try to recruit him too or if Bruno will draw the line there (Lif still remembers his friendship/ bromance with him too, I'm sure).

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On 3/13/2021 at 4:52 AM, DefyingFates said:

This is probably going to be the overarching plot for now. Though with the Bruno talk I'm curious if Lif will try to recruit him too or if Bruno will draw the line there (Lif still remembers his friendship/ bromance with him too, I'm sure).

I don't think Lif will go after Bruno. It's kind of painful for him and Thrasir to be around all their friends from this world since their own versions are dead and that's a very constant reminder. Plus, I think Lif and Thrasir would rather let Bruno do his own thing since the Embla curse is a legit problem and Bruno's handling it.

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5 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I don't think Lif will go after Bruno. It's kind of painful for him and Thrasir to be around all their friends from this world since their own versions are dead and that's a very constant reminder. Plus, I think Lif and Thrasir would rather let Bruno do his own thing since the Embla curse is a legit problem and Bruno's handling it.

This is true. I'm embarrassed to admit that I completely forgot about Thrasir. Even if Lif was desperate enough to try and recruit him, she would absolutely put her foot down on the matter 😛

Thanks for the reality check!

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29 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

This is true. I'm embarrassed to admit that I completely forgot about Thrasir. Even if Lif was desperate enough to try and recruit him, she would absolutely put her foot down on the matter 😛

Thanks for the reality check!

Of course. ^_^ As you know, I love theorizing about this stuff, and compiling what lore we've already been given to check against.

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39 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

As you know

That I do! You seem to have all of FEH lore at the forefront of your mind when discussing it, so I'll make sure to check in with you the next time I want to discuss anything 😄

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