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(spoilers, maybe?) Proving that every final boss is a dragon

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A common joke that I'm sure many of you have heard at least once is that every final boss in Fire Emblem is a dragon. As recurring final bosses in the series, this statement is very much meant to be a joke since not all final bosses are dragons... right?

In reality, every final boss is a dragon. The joke isn't just a joke, it's true. The spoiler tag contains the explanations as to how/why every final boss is a dragon.

(Obviously, this is going to contain some major spoilers, so be warned. I'm only going over the main series, so final bosses from Heroes and any DLC for Awakening, Fates [with the exception of Revelations], Shadows of Valentia, and Three Houses are not taken into consideration).

Spoiler
  • Medeus (FE1/3/11/12)
    • He is a manakete, and literally transforms into a dragon. Therefore, he is a dragon.
      • Side note: Medeus isn't in Heroes yet, and I think they might be saving him for something special. Hopefully.
  • Duma (FE2/15)
    • Classified as a Divine Dragon, therefore, he is a dragon.
  • Julius (FE4)
    • He has Major Loptous Holy Blood and becomes possessed by Loptous, who is a dragon. Therefore, Julius/Loptous is a dragon.
  • Veld (FE5)
    • Part of the cult that worked to resurrect Loptous (which was successful), so he is therefore a dragon by association.
  • Idunn (FE6)
    • Classified as a Demon Dragon, therefore, she is a dragon.
  • Fire Dragon (FE7)
    • . . . Do I really need to explain this one?
  • Fomortiis (FE8)
    • Classified as a demon, but looks an awfully lot like a dragon (he appears very reminiscent of Black Dragon Laguz in his stance/posture). Therefore, due to his appearance and similarities to Black Dragon Laguz, he is a dragon.
  • Ashnard (FE9)
    • He was married to Almedha, who is the daughter of Dheginsea, who happens to be a Black Dragon Laguz. Therefore, Almedha is of Black Dragon Laguz descent, and she marries Ashnard, so Ashnard is a dragon by association. Not only that, but he literally rides a wyvern (which is basically a mini-dragon), so when Ashnard is fought, you're also fighting the wyvern. Therefore, he is a dragon.
  • Ashera (FE10)
    • Half of the goddess Ashunera; the other half is Yune. Ashunera is the creator of the Beorc and Laguz (the latter of which includes Dragon laguz, hint hint, wink wink), which implies that she must have some form of dragon genetics within her. As Ashera is half of Ashunera, Ashera most likely inherited some of those dragon genetics that Ashunera had. Therefore, Ashera is a dragon.
  • Grima (FE13/15)
    • Known as the Fell Dragon. Also the biggest, coolest looking dragon in the series. Anyway, he's a dragon.
  • Garon (FE14B)
    • Resurrected by Anankos, who is one of the First Dragons. Garon also transforms into a dragon, as well possessing the ability to utilize dragon veins. Therefore, Garon is a dragon.
  • Takumi (FE14C)
    • Possessed by Anankos, who is one of the First Dragons. Also possesses the ability to utilize dragon veins. Therefore, Takumi is a dragon. 
  • Anankos (FE14R)
    • One of the First Dragons, specifically known as the Silent Dragon. Therefore, he is a dragon.
  • Rhea (FE16SS+CF)
    • Literally transforms into a dragon. Therefore, she is a dragon.
      • I also wanna explain Sothis real quick, too: In Heroes, she is considered as a Dragon-Type unit. As she is the mother of Rhea, who we've determined to be a dragon, this must mean that Sothis is also a dragon since she would have been able to pass down this ability to Rhea. Sothis also possesess the Crest of Flames, so any subsequent holder of her Crest will also be a dragon.
  • Edelgard (FE16BL)
    • Possesses the Crest of Flames, which originates from Sothis. As we've established that Sothis is a dragon, Edelgard is also a dragon due to possessing the Crest of Flames.
  • Nemesis (FE16GD)
    • While I would love to say that Nemesis is the one dude cool enough to not be a dragon, he is unfortunately a dragon due to possessing the Crest of Flames. Lame.

Let me know what you guys think. I look forward to the next final dragon boss in the next game.

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36 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

Ashnard (FE9)

  • He was married to Almedha, who is the daughter of Dheginsea, who happens to be a Black Dragon Laguz. Therefore, Almedha is of Black Dragon Laguz descent, and she marries Ashnard, so Ashnard is a dragon by association. Not only that, but he literally rides a wyvern (which is basically a mini-dragon), so when Ashnard is fought, you're also fighting the wyvern. Therefore, he is a dragon.

 

And this is a canon where beorc-laguz breeding gives cooties, so being a dragon by association is clearly a very real thing. (Plus, his "wyvern" is actually Rajaion, who is a literal dragon.)

 

51 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

Edelgard (FE16BL)

  • Possesses the Crest of Flames, which originates from Sothis. As we've established that Sothis is a dragon, Edelgard is also a dragon due to possessing the Crest of Flames.

 

She also has the crest of Seiros. Which comes from Rhea. Who is a dragon.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, lenticular said:

And this is a canon where beorc-laguz breeding gives cooties, so being a dragon by association is clearly a very real thing. (Plus, his "wyvern" is actually Rajaion, who is a literal dragon.)

She also has the crest of Seiros. Which comes from Rhea. Who is a dragon.

oh shit, you right

also, I completely forgot about Rajaion, lol

 

Edited by indigoasis

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Why must Ashunera and by extension Ashera have dragon genetics? It seems like there is a jump in your logic here. I'm not saying this can't be the case, but I also don't remember the game saying that Ashunera created all the races in her image or anything that may indicate or suggest all the races share similar dna (or whatever the Tellius equivalent is) to the goddesses. She could have created them without adding anything to them from herself (other than chaos and order). And sharing Chaos and/or order does not a dragon make. Otherwise every being would be a dragon. Or at least individuals in tune with order, like Mist, would be dragons. [I am making an assumption that dragons are closer to the order side of the spectrum but thats in part due to their attitude and actions I remember from the games. Kurthnaga, Nasir, Edna, and Ameldha being exceptions.]

Also to say that if she shares part of her essence with dragons, then she is a dragon is a bit iffy? Like all dragons may share some essence with the goddess, but that might just mean they are a subcategory of the goddess race. In other words, it might be correct to say all dragons are part goddess, but not all goddesses are part dragon. Kinda like saying all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

Not to mention that there are multiple final bosses in the game one of them being actually, indisputably a dragon. Sure he may not have been the very last boss, but he does count as an endgame boss.

 

Edit: From the fireemblem fandom wiki:

Quote

Long ago, there was one goddess. She was all alone in a world growing up around her, since she was one of a kind and no one else could share the same sentience as her. But as though to dissuade her sorrows, the creatures around this lonely goddess began to evolve, becoming what would be known as the Zunanma. The Zunanma happily accompanied their goddess, whose hair was the color of the rising dawn, dubbing her Ashunera, the Dawn Goddess.

However, their attention soon strayed from Ashunera. They began to evolve separately and developed desires. These desires drove them to fight against one another. They fought for power and honor. Lives were lost, which resulted in Ashunera despairing. She hoped to quell the bloodbath by giving the deviated Zunanma different names; from that point on, there were beorc and laguz.

It isn't even clear that she actually created them. The game suggests that the creatures evolved to comfort her, but whether this was by her own volition, magic leaking out of her, just random happenstance, or some other cause is not clear

Edited by Zanarkin

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Chances are we'll go through the "euthanize our senile dragon god" routine in the next mainstream game; but it's basically a given, by now.

Edited by Armchair General

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27 minutes ago, Zanarkin said:
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Why must Ashunera and by extension Ashera have dragon genetics? It seems like there is a jump in your logic here. I'm not saying this can't be the case, but I also don't remember the game saying that Ashunera created all the races in her image or anything that may indicate or suggest all the races share similar dna (or whatever the Tellius equivalent is) to the goddesses. She could have created them without adding anything to them from herself (other than chaos and order). And sharing Chaos and/or order does not a dragon make. Otherwise every being would be a dragon. Or at least individuals in tune with order, like Mist, would be dragons. [I am making an assumption that dragons are closer to the order side of the spectrum but thats in part due to their attitude and actions I remember from the games. Kurthnaga, Nasir, Edna, and Ameldha being exceptions.]

Also to say that if she shares part of her essence with dragons, then she is a dragon is a bit iffy? Like all dragons may share some essence with the goddess, but that might just mean they are a subcategory of the goddess race. In other words, it might be correct to say all dragons are part goddess, but not all goddesses are part dragon. Kinda like saying all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

Not to mention that there are multiple final bosses in the game one of them being actually, indisputably a dragon. Sure he may not have been the very last boss, but he does count as an endgame boss.

Quote

Long ago, there was one goddess. She was all alone in a world growing up around her, since she was one of a kind and no one else could share the same sentience as her. But as though to dissuade her sorrows, the creatures around this lonely goddess began to evolve, becoming what would be known as the Zunanma. The Zunanma happily accompanied their goddess, whose hair was the color of the rising dawn, dubbing her Ashunera, the Dawn Goddess.

However, their attention soon strayed from Ashunera. They began to evolve separately and developed desires. These desires drove them to fight against one another. They fought for power and honor. Lives were lost, which resulted in Ashunera despairing. She hoped to quell the bloodbath by giving the deviated Zunanma different names; from that point on, there were beorc and laguz.

Edit: From the fireemblem fandom wiki:

It isn't even clear that she actually created them. The game suggests that the creatures evolved to comfort her, but whether this was by her own volition, magic leaking out of her, just random happenstance, or some other cause is not clear

Spoiler

The reason why Ashunera needs dragon genetics is so my explanation can work. 😞

I won't dispute your reasoning because I can guarantee that it's far more sound than mine, but the whole point of my post was to poke fun at a common joke/misconception with the series (that being that every final boss is a dragon in some way, shape, or form). I really had to stretch my explanations with some characters (For example, Veld is most definitely not a dragon, but he's part of a cult that essentially resurrected an actual dragon; that doesn't actually make him a dragon for resurrecting a dragon, though. That's flawed logic [which was the point]. That's like how the people who resurrect Dracula in Castlevania aren't vampires for bringing a vampire back to life [although they could either become vampires themselves after Dracula comes back, or they were already vampires to begin with. It's an easier process to make someone a vampire than to make someone a dragon, though]).

As for Sothis and Ashunera, they aren't dragons, either. They're the goddesses of their respective worlds. You could make a case for Sothis being a dragon as I tried to since it sorta makes sense, but Ashunera (and by extension Yune and Ashera) doesn't really have any kind of relation to dragons that we know of. Ashera was the last one I made an explanation for since there's nothing about her that says she has some kind of relation to dragons. My logic was to stretch my logic to make it make sense. I know Ashera isn't a dragon, but I needed to come up with something that would make her a dragon by technicality.

Anyway, after giving a serious answer to a serious answer, the whole list was meant for fun. I truly appreciate your input though! I'm not too well versed in the Tellius games as much as I wish I could be, so the more I can learn about the games and the series, the better.

 

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1 hour ago, indigoasis said:
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The reason why Ashunera needs dragon genetics is so my explanation can work. 😞

I won't dispute your reasoning because I can guarantee that it's far more sound than mine, but the whole point of my post was to poke fun at a common joke/misconception with the series (that being that every final boss is a dragon in some way, shape, or form). I really had to stretch my explanations with some characters (For example, Veld is most definitely not a dragon, but he's part of a cult that essentially resurrected an actual dragon; that doesn't actually make him a dragon for resurrecting a dragon, though. That's flawed logic [which was the point]. That's like how the people who resurrect Dracula in Castlevania aren't vampires for bringing a vampire back to life [although they could either become vampires themselves after Dracula comes back, or they were already vampires to begin with. It's an easier process to make someone a vampire than to make someone a dragon, though]).

As for Sothis and Ashunera, they aren't dragons, either. They're the goddesses of their respective worlds. You could make a case for Sothis being a dragon as I tried to since it sorta makes sense, but Ashunera (and by extension Yune and Ashera) doesn't really have any kind of relation to dragons that we know of. Ashera was the last one I made an explanation for since there's nothing about her that says she has some kind of relation to dragons. My logic was to stretch my logic to make it make sense. I know Ashera isn't a dragon, but I needed to come up with something that would make her a dragon by technicality.

Anyway, after giving a serious answer to a serious answer, the whole list was meant for fun. I truly appreciate your input though! I'm not too well versed in the Tellius games as much as I wish I could be, so the more I can learn about the games and the series, the better.

😛I often take things too seriously here on far from the forest. Most of the time is because I fail to realize its far from the forest. But also, I tend to just take everything at face value for some reason. I barely if ever seem to realize somebody means something as a joke on the internet 😅

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One day... One day we will get a good dragon MC and the final boss will be just an ambitious human

Edited by Shrimperor

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2 hours ago, Zanarkin said:

 

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😛I often take things too seriously here on far from the forest. Most of the time is because I fail to realize its far from the forest. But also, I tend to just take everything at face value for some reason. I barely if ever seem to realize somebody means something as a joke on the internet 😅

Spoiler

Don't worry about it, dude, I totally understand. I tend to be a very literal person, so I can be the same way sometimes!

2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

One day... One day we will get a good dragon MC and the final boss will be just an ambitious human

Tabling the turns, it seems. 👀

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7 hours ago, indigoasis said:

 

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  • Nemesis (FE16GD)
    • While I would love to say that Nemesis is the one dude cool enough to not be a dragon, he is unfortunately a dragon due to possessing the Crest of Flames. Lame.

 

Spoiler

All I have to is eat a dragon’s heart and then I become a dragon?? Excellent. Now where to find one...

MASSIVE Three Houses spoilers.

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Ashera didn't create the laguz -2 points.

You didn't explain how the Fire Dragon is a dragon -2 points.

Called Veld a dragon by association is racist. -2 points.

Fomortiis just plain isn't a dragon (but he can summon Draco Zombies as part of the final battle) -2 points.

Ashnard is absolutely a dragon by marriage, can't argue that logic +2 points.

So I'll give you a 4/10.

Also I'm not going to spoiler every comment I make in this thread. Topic title already warns for potential spoilers.

Also you've missed the other game in the series. BS Fire Emblem Archanea Saga! In that we have

*Gouber, a general working for Doluna, and thus likely a manakete who lost his dragonstone.

*Ruben, a draco knight so thus he is riding a dragon

*Barm, whose a thief and...uh...well we have no evidence he's not a manakete! It's awfully suspicious the Doluna units don't attack him despite him ransacking the place. Thus the only explanation is that he's a dragon in disguise.

*Bulzark, an actual manakete.

Also Tokyo Mirage Session has Medeus and Fire Emblem Warriors had that one random dragon that I really wish they'd just called Loptyr for the sake of fanservice.

 

 

Edited by Jotari

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12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Veld (FE5)

Part of the cult that worked to resurrect Loptous (which was successful), so he is therefore a dragon by association.

  I mean, you could use the trope of The Dragon and claim him as Dragon to Manfroy (generous of me by doing so), so I'm going to allow it.

12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Fomortiis (FE8)

  • Classified as a demon, but looks an awfully lot like a dragon (he appears very reminiscent of Black Dragon Laguz in his stance/posture). Therefore, due to his appearance and similarities to Black Dragon Laguz, he is a dragon.

Considering demons are associated with hell, hell associated with fire and fire associated with dragons, there's another reason.

Fomortis also has wings, further suggesting draconic ties.

12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Ashnard (FE9)

  • He was married to Almedha, who is the daughter of Dheginsea, who happens to be a Black Dragon Laguz. Therefore, Almedha is of Black Dragon Laguz descent, and she marries Ashnard, so Ashnard is a dragon by association. Not only that, but he literally rides a wyvern (which is basically a mini-dragon), so when Ashnard is fought, you're also fighting the wyvern. Therefore, he is a dragon.

Did you forget he's riding a Dragon Laguz?

So he's riding a dragon, according to the cooties arguments has rode a separate one before, has a half-dragon kid, so he could be a dragon's inlaw. Therefore technically can count.

12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Ashera (FE10)

  • Half of the goddess Ashunera; the other half is Yune. Ashunera is the creator of the Beorc and Laguz (the latter of which includes Dragon laguz, hint hint, wink wink), which implies that she must have some form of dragon genetics within her. As Ashera is half of Ashunera, Ashera most likely inherited some of those dragon genetics that Ashunera had. Therefore, Ashera is a dragon.

She created the predecessors for the Beorc and Laguz though, not the Beorc and Laguz themselves.

They were formed by her attempting to separate feuding beings. Then she destroyed much of the world. Like a Dragon.

Therefore she counts in attitude.

12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Takumi (FE14C)

  • Possessed by Anankos, who is one of the First Dragons. Also possesses the ability to utilize dragon veins. Therefore, Takumi is a dragon. 

Considering we don't know how the dragon blood actually got into their veins, he could actually be descended from a dragon.

Therefore counts, maybe?

12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Edelgard (FE16BL)

  • Possesses the Crest of Flames, which originates from Sothis. As we've established that Sothis is a dragon, Edelgard is also a dragon due to possessing the Crest of Flames.

So, she has CoF. She also transforms into a monster form as Hegemon.

Said form has wings, is able to use her crest to attack and these powers seem available to dragons in universe. All crest wielders could seemingly have this potential with her and Maurice. Therefore we can count her.

12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Nemesis (FE16GD)

  • While I would love to say that Nemesis is the one dude cool enough to not be a dragon, he is unfortunately a dragon due to possessing the Crest of Flames. Lame

I am not so sure about Nemesis in the past, considering the sword has the crest stone in it so he could still use it without, but there's a good chance he had the crest then. Corpsesis, on the other hand, has it in game.

He is able to access the powers within both SotC, so he has draconic ties. If Takumi counts, Nemesis counts.

Obviously more spoilers.

And with this it turns out we really can't get away from dragons huh?

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If Three Houses is so good, how come it still has generic evil cult and dragon final boss? Checkmate, fanboys.

In all seriousness, since I'm obsessed with KagaSaga, let me do this for the KagaSaga final bosses as well.

Spoiler

- Gerxel (TearRing Saga): Just a dragon. Nothing much else to say. Moving on.

- Jacharam (Berwick Saga): Actually? This one is absolutely not a dragon. He does not transform into a dragon, he does not use / strive to obtain a dragon's power, he does not answer to a dragon, dragons have nothing to do with his faction or their plans... In fact, there are no dragons at all anywhere to be found in Berwick Saga. The closest thing is a couple of wild wyverns that you encounter, but they have no impact in the plot and, well, they're obviously not proper dragons. Wow.

- Therenius (Vestaria Saga): Not a dragon either, but his stupidity matches the fury of a dragon's flame. Like, seriously, this guy is so dumb that he literally has a skill named "imbecile" that nerfs all of his allies around him. It's Kempf but the final boss. He's not just not a dragon, he's not even a powerful human. He's just some asshole. Amazing.

Tl;dr: Kaga continued the "final dragon boss" tradition in TearRing Saga, but dropped it going forward.

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Why do we have to limit it to Fire Emblem? We just need to show that every final boss is a profound evil to perhaps be a metaphorical dragon. Dragons are sometimes considered good omens and lucky, and that is how I like them, but they are also sometimes linked with evil. Satan is sometimes considered a dragon. In the same way that Rand Al Thor of the Wheel of Time never takes on a draconic form but is still "The Dragon Reborn" and a figure ultimately shown to be a positive/good figure, we can use figurative language and thought to make something a dragon since we have precedent for it.

EDIT-NOt saying it's a good idea though.

Edited by Original Johan Liebert

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14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ashera didn't create the laguz -2 points.

9 hours ago, Dayni said:

She created the predecessors for the Beorc and Laguz though, not the Beorc and Laguz themselves.

Best Captain America I GIFs | Gfycat

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

You didn't explain how the Fire Dragon is a dragon -2 points.

it's in the name tho

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Called Veld a dragon by association is racist. -2 points.

i can't argue with that, but you're not saying that I'm wrong

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Fomortiis just plain isn't a dragon (but he can summon Draco Zombies as part of the final battle) -2 points.

if he can summon draco zombies, effectively giving birth to beings with dragon genetics, that means Fomortiis is a dragon

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ashnard is absolutely a dragon by marriage, can't argue that logic +2 points.

I'm surprised that I was right about this, honestly!

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Given that Duma and Mila were retconned into being dragons, I think it's safe to say that Formortiis will likely be revealed to be a degenerate divine dragon if an FE8 remake ever gets made. The same could easily be done for Ashera as well.

Saying Veld is a dragon by association may be racist, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Re: Ashnard. He is not a dragon by association because miscegenation causes Laguz to lose their abilities, thus making them beorc by association and unwittingly complicit in their own internalized whiteness. However, Ashnard does still ride a dragon, so he counts.

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6 hours ago, indigoasis said:

it's in the name tho

Nothing is axiomatic.

6 hours ago, indigoasis said:

i can't argue with that, but you're not saying that I'm wrong

You're wrong.

6 hours ago, indigoasis said:

if he can summon draco zombies, effectively giving birth to beings with dragon genetics, that means Fomortiis is a dragon

I don't think he gives birth tot them, more zombifies corpses lying around.

5 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Given that Duma and Mila were retconned into being dragons, I think it's safe to say that Formortiis will likely be revealed to be a degenerate divine dragon if an FE8 remake ever gets made. The same could easily be done for Ashera as well.

 

To be real, while I doubt they actually will retcon Fomortiis into a dragon since it's a separate continuity to Archanea, they really do need to expand more on what the deal is up with Fomortiis and the Manaketes in The Sacred Stones. We know basically nothing about how the dragons functioned in Magvel and its history. Even the one population that knows about their very existence are misinformed, apparently thinking Myrrh is the great dragon when that seems more likely to be Morva.

5 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Re: Ashnard. He is not a dragon by association because miscegenation causes Laguz to lose their abilities, thus making them beorc by association and unwittingly complicit in their own internalized whiteness. However, Ashnard does still ride a dragon, so he counts.

Ashnard isn't a dragon by association, he's a dragon by marriage. So while not physically being a dragon, he is legally a dragon (and physically on a dragon).

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You need to explain the FE7 one.  In great detail.  Because I'm not seeing it.  😛

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Nothing is axiomatic.

Well, except the axioms. Can't functionally interact with reality without a few of those.

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

To be real, while I doubt they actually will retcon Fomortiis into a dragon since it's a separate continuity to Archanea, they really do need to expand more on what the deal is up with Fomortiis and the Manaketes in The Sacred Stones. We know basically nothing about how the dragons functioned in Magvel and its history. Even the one population that knows about their very existence are misinformed, apparently thinking Myrrh is the great dragon when that seems more likely to be Morva.

Perhaps, but Fates and Awakening sort of introduced this multiverse kind of continuity, though maybe Three Heroes abandoned that idea, I didn't play it. I would be fine with a little more exploration of the manaketes, but I don't think Fortmortiis really needs a deep lore explanation. He's the Demon King, a primordial evil. Forty isn't like Lucifer where he's defined primarily as an opponent to a good entity, he's just a prick who is around.

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ashnard isn't a dragon by association, he's a dragon by marriage. So while not physically being a dragon, he is legally a dragon (and physically on a dragon).

Marriage is just a highly intimate form of association. As far as can be discerned, he remains a beorc under the laws of Daein.

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4 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Well, except the axioms. Can't functionally interact with reality without a few of those.

Perhaps, but Fates and Awakening sort of introduced this multiverse kind of continuity, though maybe Three Heroes abandoned that idea, I didn't play it. I would be fine with a little more exploration of the manaketes, but I don't think Fortmortiis really needs a deep lore explanation. He's the Demon King, a primordial evil. Forty isn't like Lucifer where he's defined primarily as an opponent to a good entity, he's just a prick who is around.

Oh yes, I don't think we need much explanation on where Fomortiis came from, and any explanation they try to go for I can't imagine would actually improve him. Yeah, I just mean the dragons themselves and what kind of a society they managed to have.

Quote

Marriage is just a highly intimate form of association. As far as can be discerned, he remains a beorc under the laws of Daein.

As someone living in Japan I can confirm that marriage can very easily lack anything even half resembling intimate association.

Edited by Jotari

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16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You're wrong.

Darn, my logic has been foiled again! 😞

17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Nothing is axiomatic.

13 minutes ago, eclipse said:

You need to explain the FE7 one.  In great detail.  Because I'm not seeing it.  😛

(From the Fire Emblem Wiki.) 

Quote

"This unnamed dragon (Japanese: 火の竜 fire dragon) is the final boss of Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade. It was called from the Dragon's Gate as Nergal's dying act, along with two other fire dragons who were subsequently killed by Ninian, and was fought by Eliwood's army as the final stage of their campaign against Nergal."

"The dragon is the boss of the second half of the Final Chapter. With its weapon, Flametongue, it can attack at anywhere between 1 and 3 range and, through its defenses-negating effect, deals exactly 37 (normal mode)/39 (hard mode) damage to every unit."

"Note: The Dragon gives no experience when fought or killed."

The Fire Dragon, at is most commonly referred to, is the final boss of Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade. It is in the Fire Dragon class. It wields Flametongue as it's primary weapon, which is a weapon type typically wielded exclusively by dragons. It also greatly resembles a dragon in appearance and mannerisms, shooting fire from it's mouth at it's adversaries and generally being kind of a jerk.

In Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade, there is a weapon known as Durandal, which is wielded by Eliwood. It increases his strength by 5 points, and has a unique attribute in that it is effective against dragons, which means that the damage it deals to dragons is substantially increased. (For some reason, weapon effectiveness only doubles damage instead of tripling it in the English releases of FE7, which is odd, but whatever). The Fire Dragon, which is the final boss of Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade, is weak to Durandal. That is to say, Durandal deals effective damage (or double the damage that it normally would against non-dragon enemies) to the Fire Dragon.

With all of this in mind, as well as the evidence presented, as well as well as the case being made, I can come to the conclusion that the Fire Dragon is indeed, substantially, unequivocally, without a doubt, therefore a DRAGON.

I think.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions.

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2 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

Darn, my logic has been foiled again! 😞

(From the Fire Emblem Wiki.) 

The Fire Dragon, at is most commonly referred to, is the final boss of Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade. It is in the Fire Dragon class. It wields Flametongue as it's primary weapon, which is a weapon type typically wielded exclusively by dragons. It also greatly resembles a dragon in appearance and mannerisms, shooting fire from it's mouth at it's adversaries and generally being kind of a jerk.

In Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade, there is a weapon known as Durandal, which is wielded by Eliwood. It increases his strength by 5 points, and has a unique attribute in that it is effective against dragons, which means that the damage it deals to dragons is substantially increased. (For some reason, weapon effectiveness only doubles damage instead of tripling it in the English releases of FE7, which is odd, but whatever). The Fire Dragon, which is the final boss of Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade, is weak to Durandal. That is to say, Durandal deals effective damage (or double the damage that it normally would against non-dragon enemies) to the Fire Dragon.

With all of this in mind, as well as the evidence presented, as well as well as the case being made, I can come to the conclusion that the Fire Dragon is indeed, substantially, unequivocally, without a doubt, therefore a DRAGON.

I think.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions.

Hmm. Yeah I guess that sort of counts.

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46 minutes ago, Jotari said:

To be real, while I doubt they actually will retcon Fomortiis into a dragon since it's a separate continuity to Archanea, they really do need to expand more on what the deal is up with Fomortiis and the Manaketes in The Sacred Stones. We know basically nothing about how the dragons functioned in Magvel and its history. Even the one population that knows about their very existence are misinformed, apparently thinking Myrrh is the great dragon when that seems more likely to be Morva.

First, it is outright said.:

Myrrh: Great Dragon? Please, there’s no need to call me that. My father is the great one. I’ve done nothing. I’m not great at all.

Second, I would like to see them expand Magvellian Manaketes starting with this line.:

Myrrh: We have the power of dragons; therefore, we cannot live together with humans… We have the hearts of humans; therefore, we do not belong with monsters. We are outcasts in this world, never a part of either community. And so we live our lives alone, never to be understood by anyone.

Manaketes as a bridge between humans and the overwhelmingly mindless monsters would be an interesting angle. If I had the slightest modicum of ability, I'd fanfict here. Dragonkind as Formortiis's intelligent generals turned against him sounds flawed. I'd want him to have some demon generals whom the heroes of yore eradicated entirely beyond hopes of revival, because otherwise why does the DK have his intelligence? 

 

46 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ashnard isn't a dragon by association, he's a dragon by marriage. So while not physically being a dragon, he is legally a dragon (and physically on a dragon).

This reminded me of one game I watched an LP of. The human women of a clan are offered as "brides" to a race of hideous insect-humanoids who bear only males, a horrible life which a son of said clan is trying to stop at any cost. As a result of constant copulation and producing the children of these morally disgusting creatures, the human women begin to take insect-like features themselves.

-Not that Tellius has this. But FE could consider frequent intercourse over time leading to the development of traits of the other species in interspecies romances. -Without the whole "lack of consent damning women to lives of endless agony and deepest sorrow" aspect, that is way too dark and absolutely inappropriate in a light-entertainment story like those FE tries to tell. Wouldn't it be cool if lightheartedly shacking Kaden with Orochi resulted in her growing foxtails and becoming ~20% Kitsune?

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

First, it is outright said.:

Myrrh: Great Dragon? Please, there’s no need to call me that. My father is the great one. I’ve done nothing. I’m not great at all.

Second, I would like to see them expand Magvellian Manaketes starting with this line.:

Myrrh: We have the power of dragons; therefore, we cannot live together with humans… We have the hearts of humans; therefore, we do not belong with monsters. We are outcasts in this world, never a part of either community. And so we live our lives alone, never to be understood by anyone.

Manaketes as a bridge between humans and the overwhelmingly mindless monsters would be an interesting angle. If I had the slightest modicum of ability, I'd fanfict here. Dragonkind as Formortiis's intelligent generals turned against him sounds flawed. I'd want him to have some demon generals whom the heroes of yore eradicated entirely beyond hopes of revival, because otherwise why does the DK have his intelligence?

Throwing in some intelligent monsters into the game wouldn't be the worst idea either. Some chapters do just have a generic monster as the boss which always felt a bit weak to me (I mean like narratively, the monsters themselves typically had appropriate boss stats).

Edited by Jotari

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38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh yes, I don't think we need much explanation on where Fomortiis came from, and any explanation they try to go for I can't imagine would actually improve him. Yeah, I just mean the dragons themselves and what kind of a society they managed to have.

I wouldn't mind an explanation of their dragons and where exactly they lie between monsters, gods, and humans. If Fortmortiis is a primordial entity, Myrrh and Morva are most likely created ones, and ones of some importance. Since Magvel lacks "gods" of any sort, it would be a bit weird to try and explain how anything was created, though.

38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

As someone living in Japan I can confirm that marriage can very easily lack anything even half resembling intimate association.

Some people do it well, and some people do it wrong. The marriages which are not intimate are "bad marriages" on account of falling short of the prescriptive standard of marriage. I hear it's a problem over there, I hope they get some help.

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This reminded me of one game I watched an LP of. The human women of a clan are offered as "brides" to a race of hideous insect-humanoids who bear only males, a horrible life which a son of said clan is trying to stop at any cost. As a result of constant copulation and producing the children of these morally disgusting creatures, the human women begin to take insect-like features themselves.

what the f[][][] do you do with your time

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

-Not that Tellius has this.

Tellius does have laguz losing their ability to transform, thus becoming more beorc-like.

Taxes:

Spoiler

 

E

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