How I imagine a Fire Emblem 4 remake

[JungleGoutte01]

This what I imagine for a remake of Fire Emblem : Genealogy of the Holy War.

For the title i'd propose  Fire Emblem Echoes : The Holy War Saga.

 

First I would keep the size of the map but I would add some elements like secret dungeons or caves.

I would include an avatar but he (or she) would an apprentice to one of Sigurd's knights. I think it is the best way to include a time pulse like mechanic.

The avatar's Holy blood is Sothis Holy Blood, it allows the users to use time pulse.

The avatar class is Strategist (uses swords, Fire, wind,thunder) he promotes to Grand master and can use his weapons to A rank.

The avatar is killed by Manfroy.

The castle are explorable.

I would also add the technique Aether for the units who have both Sol and Luna.

 

For money, each unit has its own but it can be traded and you can also trade your equipment.

The trinity of magic will work like Radiant Dawn.

 

New characters.

Bulwyne : a member of the Rotten Ritter. He is sent by Arvis to keep an eye on Sigurd and Azelle. Joins at the end of the Prologue. He does not use fire magic but he has a Fire sword. He starts at a Level 3 Paladin. He is executed at Belhalla

Christine : a spear fighter from Nordion. She survives the battle of Belhalla but her left arm is chopped. Starts as a level 8 Soldier, promotes to hallberdier. Learns Luna at a Level 6 (hallberdier). Joins in chapter 2

Angela : christine's daughter and Karl's older sister. starts as a level 5 Lance Knight. Joins in chapter 6.

 

Karl: Christine's son. Joins in chapter 6 as level 5 Sword Knight.

 

Eivor : the avatar's child. He has no substitute. Class : depends on who his father or mother is. Joins in chapter 6 at level 1. He or She is the youngest member of the army.

 

Casual mode will be reworked. If a unit is defeated it is unavailable for 2 turns and Can be redeployed at the nearest allied castle.

 

Let me know what you think

 

 

 

 

 

[Yexin]

you lost me at "i would include an avatar"

 

serious answer: you lost me at "i would include an avatar" as i think a Genealogy remake should be as faithful to the original game as possible, so aside from minor changes (being able to select exactly how much money you want two married characters will trade), i'd spend basically no money in changing how the game plays, in favor of how the game looks and sounds

Edited March 14, 2022 by Yexin

[Use the Falchion]

I like it! I'm always a fan of adding more characters - they make replays exciting and fun to switch things up with. (Although I'm a fan of new ways to use the characters, not route-exclusive characters.) 

I'm also a fan of how you incorporated the Avatar. Someone else had the idea of an Avatar having minor blood that the player can choose, and I think I'm a fan of that right now, but that also really makes things depend on whether or not reclassing would be a thing in a remake. 

The one thing I'm not sold on is how your go back to PoR style of magic. I think that's a smart choice, but since I've always been a fan of the GBA weapon triangle, I'm usually a fan of going back to that or nothing at all. Still, your choice is the smart one. 

Overall, I like your ideas! They're similar to mine in a lot of ways and different in even more. You'll probably hear pushback on the Avatar point, but know you've got a fan in me! 

[JungleGoutte01]

If This game has DLCs (and I'm pretty sure it will have DLCs) it could look like this :

DLC 1: The Battle of Thracia : a remake of Fire Emblem 5.

DLC 2: The Heir of the Emblem : an dlc centered on Arvis.

DLC 3: The Lion of Nordion : a DLC centered on Eldigan.

 

IF this game has Trial Maps or something similar, here are the characters that would be exclusive to this mode.

Arvis

Julius

Manfroy

Travant

Eldigan

Naga

Loptous

Byleth

Veld (DLC)

Raydrik (DLC)

The Twelve Crusaders

 

 

 

[ciphertul]

This makes no sense, if there is an Avatar for the player you know a character we are directly meant to see as a self insert then… how do we see gen 2 if the player is dead?

[Use the Falchion]

4 hours ago, ciphertul said:

This makes no sense, if there is an Avatar for the player you know a character we are directly meant to see as a self insert then… how do we see gen 2 if the player is dead?

Wouldn't the easy option be having the Avatar's child(ren) take their place? If the Avatar didn't get married, then it's their "apprentice." 

[ciphertul]

Just now, Use the Falchion said:

Wouldn't the easy option be having the Avatar's child(ren) take their place? If the Avatar didn't get married, then it's their "apprentice." 

Then why bother at that point just make them a normal character instead of an Avatar. Morgan and Kana aren't Avatar units.

[Use the Falchion]

2 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Then why bother at that point just make them a normal character instead of an Avatar. Morgan and Kana aren't Avatar units.

It's about experiencing the story versus being presenting the story IMO. Avatars allow players to experience the story in a way that just being presented the story can't fully hold, particularly in Fire Emblem games and other JRPGs. Open world games are different, since the main experience (exploring) is intertwined with the gameplay, but Fire Emblem doesn't function like that, ergo the Avatar. This is why Lyn's story is so effective in FE 7 - players feel like they're a part of the story, even if they aren't in battle. This fades with time, of course, and YMMV on whether or not that's a good thing. Why couldn't an FE 4 remake with Avatars function the same? You're playable for the first half, and then the more in the game you go, the more your presence dwindles in terms of story perspective and importance. (But not in gameplay, obviously.)

Morgan and Kana aren't Avatar units, but being Avatar adjacent is close enough, particularly if the age gap isn't terrible. Or, you know, maybe you can customize the Avatar's children. Or you just keep the story without an Avatar, using the children, so now players really relate to Seliph and Co's plight. Or you can keep the Avatar alive. There are options on how to handle it, depending on what IntSys wants to do. 

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, Use the Falchion said:

It's about experiencing the story versus being presenting the story IMO. Avatars allow players to experience the story in a way that just being presented the story can't fully hold,

But then your experience of the story ends when you die, you can't experience any more after that. It would be to massive disconnect. "And you died but MAGICALLY your consciousness was reborn in your child/pupil". I know FE has some major Deus ex machina moments be that is really pushing it.

[Use the Falchion]

1 minute ago, ciphertul said:

"And you died but MAGICALLY your consciousness was reborn in your child/pupil". I know FE has some major Deus ex machina moments be that is really pushing it.

I don't think this would work, but I don't think the massive disconnect is bad either. 

 

2 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

It would be to massive disconnect.

And that disconnect could be used to drive home the point that life goes on. That our wills, our legacies can and will go on without us. All we can do is our best, and leave the rest in the hands of the next generation. I don't think that's a terrible message, or even one that Genealogy is unprepared to tell. 

 

3 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

But then your experience of the story ends when you die, you can't experience any more after that.

Like Mark in FE7, after a certain point, the player is drawn into the story, so being there is the experience. Besides, how shocking is it when your Avatar, the character you've created and invested in dies? I've only had one experience in gaming like that, and it wasn't even as effective for me since it was the first game in the series I had played. (Mass Effect 2. Phenomenal game.) 

[Metal Flash]

While I like the avatar mearly being one of Sigurd`s knights AND them being killed at Belhalla, I don`t want them to have any Holy Blood. Just keep them an ordinary knight of Chalphy with zero plot relevance if the HAVE to be in.

Not sure if Gen 1 needs ANOTHER cavalier when Naoise and Alec exist, if there are to be new characters, I would prefer if they are in classes that weren`t playable in the base game.

A rewind mechanic could (and should) be gameplay only with zero ties to the story, Three Houses showed the problems it causes.

I feel a Thracia remake would be better served as a separate game rather than DLC.

I like the idea of Trial Maps for the extra gameplay and some DLC stories expanding on side events that aren`t fully explored in the base game.

And finally, please don`t try to include Sothis in any way, shape or form. I want them to focus on fleshing out Jugdral, not suddenly force/retcon connections to other games.

[Jotari]

12 hours ago, JungleGoutte01 said:

First I would keep the size of the map but I would add some elements like secret dungeons or caves.

Kind of need some examples to see the benefit of this.

Quote

I would include an avatar but he (or she) would an apprentice to one of Sigurd's knights. I think it is the best way to include a time pulse like mechanic.

The avatar's Holy blood is Sothis Holy Blood, it allows the users to use time pulse.

If we're to have an Avatar with Holy Blood I want it for one reason and one reason alone, to have maximum fun with ugenics. Adding more holy blood doesn't do this. Additionally, Genealogy of the Holy War, of all games, is the worst to have a plot integrated rewin mechanic as the heroes lose hard at the end of the first gen. Rewind mechanics don't need to be implemented into the plot any more than battle saves or casual mode do. Just make it something you can do with the interface like in the Shadow Dragon remake (or if it is implemented into the plot, actually make it a story about time travel, like Neo The World Ends With You or Prince of Persia).

Quote

The avatar class is Strategist (uses swords, Fire, wind,thunder) he promotes to Grand master and can use his weapons to A rank.

That's already a class in Genealogy, Mage Fighter.

Quote

The avatar is killed by Manfroy.

Only one Avatar for the first generation and then nothing for the second then?

Quote

The castle are explorable.

I would also add the technique Aether for the units who have both Sol and Luna.

Does this mean you have a % chance of both Sol, Luna or Aether, or does aether replace both sol and luna? I wouldn't really object to throwing Aether into the game but having it made by a combination of skills is kind of weird...though not necessairly in a bad way.

Quote

For money, each unit has its own but it can be traded and you can also trade your equipment.

What's the point in having units with individual money then?

Quote

The trinity of magic will work like Radiant Dawn.

Unless you're going to add some Dark Magic for the player to access (and more white magic enemies for the player to fight) that's going to be a bit unbalanced. It'd just pidgeon hole Deirdre and Julia's use even more (and that's even assuming they give it big enough bonuses to ever make a difference), not that they even have much use in the first place given their availability. Genealogy isn't designed around a three way magic system of Light, Dark and Anima. It's a three way magic system of wind, fire and thunder, with light and dark being the special super magic that only a few characters have. Trying to shove all that into triangles is doing it for the sake of it and not because of the game's design.

Quote

New characters.

Bulwyne : a member of the Rotten Ritter. He is sent by Arvis to keep an eye on Sigurd and Azelle. Joins at the end of the Prologue. He does not use fire magic but he has a Fire sword. He starts at a Level 3 Paladin. He is executed at Belhalla

Christine : a spear fighter from Nordion. She survives the battle of Belhalla but her left arm is chopped. Starts as a level 8 Soldier, promotes to hallberdier. Learns Luna at a Level 6 (hallberdier). Joins in chapter 2

Angela : christine's daughter and Karl's older sister. starts as a level 5 Lance Knight. Joins in chapter 6.

 

Karl: Christine's son. Joins in chapter 6 as level 5 Sword Knight.

 

Eivor : the avatar's child. He has no substitute. Class : depends on who his father or mother is. Joins in chapter 6 at level 1. He or She is the youngest member of the army.

 

Casual mode will be reworked. If a unit is defeated it is unavailable for 2 turns and Can be redeployed at the nearest allied castle.

 

Let me know what you think

While we probably will end up getting a few new characters in a Genealogy remake, I think a lot more people would prefer the fan service of including Thracia characters into the game rather than making up new ones (young Galzus fighting for Sigurd anyone?).

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Personally, I wouldn't want to see an Avatar in the inevitable Genealogy remake. It isn't necessary, and they wouldn't really contribute much thematically.

That said, if we were to get an Avatar, here's how I'd want to see them done:

Spoiler

• You can choose their name, gender/pronouns, and appearance.
• Their bases and growths are fixed. However, you can choose two personal skills for them to have.
• The Avatar joins in the "Tactician" class, a 5-move infantry class which has access to C-rank in all weapons, tomes, and staves. It has no associated class skills. At level 20 onward, it can promote to the "Grandmaster" class, bumping it up to 6-move and B-rank in all areas.
• You can give the Avatar minor Holy Blood in one area. This affects their growths and weapon ranks. You can also choose not to give them any Holy Blood.
• You can choose two skills to give the Avatar. These can be any skills in the game, aside from Steal, Dance, Bargain, Paragon, Holy Sword (unused), Darkness Sword (unused), or Recover (unused).
• The Avatar will join with three items. They will always have an Iron Sword and a Heal Staff. Their third item will depend on their choice of Holy Blood. I.e. with Minor Dain, they will join with a Steel Lance, while Minor Thrud means they'll join with an Elthunder Tome. If they choose not to have any Holy Blood, then they will join with a new item - the Charm Ring. Selling for 20000 Gold, this item grants its wielder the Charm skill.
• Narratively-speaking, the Avatar is a minor noble, and an old friend of Sigurd from their academy days, who is visiting House Chalphy when war breaks out. They come to assist Sigurd in the war effort. They accompany Sigurd throughout the entire first generation, up until the seizing of Castle Velthomer in Chapter 5. At that point, Sigurd asks the Avatar to travel to Oifey, Shannan, and the kids, and to inform them of his victory. The Avatar meets them in Isaach, but on their way back to Belhalla, they are intercepted by Lady Edain of House Yngvi, who narrowly escaped death at the hands of the Rotenritter. From there, the Avatar raises the kids, alongside Edain, Oifey, and Shannan. Once war breaks out in chapter 6, the Avatar (now aged 20 years) assists Seliph in his Liberation Army. The Avatar makes up for their failure to save Sigurd, by helping Seliph redeem the continent from the Grannvalean Empire.
• The Avatar can be paired up with other units in the first generation, but they cannot have any kids. Infertility happens, and it's high-time a Fire Emblem game gives it proper representation. There will be a couple WLW/MLM options, too... tentatively, let's say Tailtiu and Jamke. So, if the Avatar is paired with a potential mother unit, then the substitute units for those children will appear in the second generation. However, there are still rewards for pairings - the Avatar will get a conversation with their partner in chapter 5 that boosts one stat, and can also have a conversation with a second-generation unit depending on their prior partner. They cannot have a romantic partner in the second generation.
• The Avatar has rewind powers, I guess. The reason they can't rewind the Battle of Belhalla is because they weren't present for it. There's no "magical blood" explanation for this power, they just have it. Rewinding plays into the ranking system, so the more you rewind, the worse ranking you get. The only way to end the game with a perfect ranking is to never use the rewind ability.

I would definitely be game to introduce a support system, though. I would introduce a hybrid of Genealogy's lover system and Thracia 776's fixed-support system. Units with an existing relationship would start with a support between them, in some cases one-way, that increases Hit and Avoid when within 3 spaces. Here are some examples:

Spoiler

• Alec <-> Naoise (5)
• Sigurd <-> Ethlyn (10)
• Quan <-> Ethlyn (15)
• Sigurd <-> Quan (10)
• Quan -> Finn (10)
• Ethlyn -> Deirdre (5)
• Rule: Siblings grant each other a mutual 10% support. This includes siblings in the first generation as well as the second (even those who don't realize they're related).
• Rule: Units who can be paired with each other start with a 0% support. When they hit 300 love points, they get a 5% support. When they hit 400 love points, their support jumps to 10%. When they hit 500 love points, and get married, their support jumps to 15%. Additionally, other pre-existing romantic supports each unit has drops down to 5%. So, if Lewyn has 449 points with Silvia and 499 points with Erinys, then he will have a 10% support with each of them. But next turn, when Lewyn has 501 points with Erinys, he will marry her (bumping their support up to 15%), while his support with Silvia will fall to 5%.
• Supports can be viewed on a unit's screen.
• Units can trade gold if they are married, or if they have a "fixed support". I.e. Sigurd can exchange gold with Ethlyn, Quan, and Deirdre. In the case of a one-way support, the ability to move gold is one-way as well (so, Quan can give Finn gold, but not vice-versa). Rather than trading all the gold at once, gold is traded down to the nearest 10K gold level, unless doing so would give the recipient more gold than their cap of 50K. I.e. if Sigurd (43K) chooses to give gold to Quan (11K), then he will give 3K, resulting in Sigurd (40K) and Quan (14K). But, if Sigurd (43K) instead chooses to give gold to Ethlyn (48K), then he will give 2K, resulting in Sigurd (41K) and Ethlyn (50K).
• The "10K gold checkpoint" applies to Thieves giving gold as well. So, if Dew (12K) gives to Edain (6K), then the outcome will be Dew (10K) and Edain (8K). If he chooses to "give" again the next turn, then he'll give a full 10K, resulting in Dew (0K) and Edain (18K).

Other assorted changes:

Spoiler

• Introduce more weapons. The Hammer, for instance, would be a B-rank Axe with 50 uses, 12 Might, 20 Weight, and 50 Hit, with anti-Armor effectiveness (read: always gets a crit against Armored enemies), at a value of 5K gold. Johan or Johalva can pick it up by visiting Isaach Castle or Sophara Castle, respectively. The Longbow, meanwhile, would be a B-rank Bow with 50 uses, 10 Might, 13 Weight, and 70 Hit, with 2-3 Range and the usual anti-Flier effectiveness. Andrei's and Scipio's forces would include them in their kit. Andrei would drop his in chapter 5, and it can be passed down to Febail or Lester. If it is not inherited, then Scipio will drop one in the Endgame. 
• The Adept skill now activates on the first strike of any combat, provided the Adept user's Attack Speed is higher than the foe's Attack Speed. So, if Quan initiates combat, he will always get two strikes in against enemies he outspeeds, but only one against enemies whom he speed-ties or is slower than. If a unit with Adept also has Pursuit, then Adept will activate after the first strike, but never after the follow-up attack. Note that, per this wording, Adept can trigger on enemy-phase, if the unit with Adept also has the Vantage skill and thereby gets the first strike in.
• Brave Weapons don't have the traditional "Brave" effect, but instead grant the user the Adept skill, except that they don't check for Attack Speed. So, if you get the first strike in with the Brave Lance, then you will always get a second strike, even if the opponent has higher AS. Note that this means, on a follow-up attack, the Brave weapon will not activate an additional strike. Nor will it activate if the enemy attacks first in combat.
• The Accost skill will always activate once, if the following conditions are satisfied: 1) The unit with Accost initiated combat, AND 2) the unit with Accost has full HP at the end of the first combat phase OR the opposing unit is unable to counter-attack. So, if Naoise initiates combat at full HP against an enemy Brigand, and the Brigand misses his counter-attack, then Naoise will always get a second attack in against the enemy Brigand. Alternatively, if Naoise uses a Steel Sword to attack an enemy Archer, then he will get an Accost strike in regardless of his starting HP, because the enemy can't counter.
• The Pavise skill will activate against the first strike of any combat session, if the Pavise unit is under attack. So, if Lex initiates combat against Macbeth (a General with Pavise) using a Hammer, then Pavise will activate, preventing any damage. However, if Lex uses the Brave Axe, then the first hit will be blocked by Pavise, but the second hit (due to Adept) will go through normally. If Macbeth uses a Steel Lance to initiate combat against Lex, however, and Lex has a Hammer, then Lex's attack won't be blocked by Pavise (because the Pavise unit is initiating, not receiving). Nosferatu and the Earth Sword still bypass Pavise, for some reason.
• The "sword skills" (Sol, Luna, Astra) have their activation rates changed. Sol and Luna now activate with (Skill + Luck)%, while Astra activates with ((Skill + Luck) / 2)%. Additionally, units who promote into a "sword infantry" class (i.e. Tine) can inherit a sword skill, but it will only activate when they use Swords.
• Mainline Fire-type tomes (Fire, Elfire, Bolganone) now get 2 more Might each (bumping up to 10, 16, and 22, respectively), while Wind-type tomes (Wind, Elwind, Tornado) lose 2 Might apiece (falling to 6, 12, and 18, respectively). Aura has its Weight dropped to 12 and grants its wielder the Critical skill, while Light falls to 8 Might, but grants its wielder the Miracle skill. Also, Light magic now has WTA over Dark-magic users, but WTD against Anima users.
• Arion can now be recruited by Altena in the Endgame. His green units will still follow him, unless there is an enemy unit in range, in which case, they'll go on the attack. He has a "sibling support" with Altena, and also gets a conversation with Leif (nothing comes of it, though).

I could think of more, but that's all I have time for right now. Let me know what you think!

Edited March 15, 2022 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Added detail about Avatar's skills.

[Acacia Sgt]

Probably as a reminder, but Oifey is already meant to be Sigurd's tactician, so making a hypothetical avatar's role as one is a bit redundant... unless they were to have a Dryas/August banter-ship with Oifey.

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Probably as a reminder, but Oifey is already meant to be Sigurd's tactician, so making a hypothetical avatar's role as one is a bit redundant... unless they were to have a Dryas/August banter-ship with Oifey.

Alternatively, make Oifey+"Young ass kid who grows up to have a stache" be the default name and design for the avatar and make him/her playable in Gen 1.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Jotari said:

Alternatively, make Oifey+"Young ass kid who grows up to have a stache" be the default name and design for the avatar and make him/her playable in Gen 1.

Turn Oifey into the Avatar?

No. Just. No.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

22 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Turn Oifey into the Avatar?

No. Just. No.

Agreed. I remember that being suggested on the subreddit at some point, and it turned into something of a meme. Oifey ought to remain his own character.

As for the "Avatar", I gave them the "Tactician" and "Grandmaster" classes somewhat reflexively. They don't necessarily need to have either that name or function, though. In my proposal, they're just another noble who has a pre-existing friendship with Sigurd, so maybe they could get the "Noble" class? And instead of promoting at level 20, they could do so right after the timeskip (regardless of level), into the "Veteran" class, emphasizing their experience.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Agreed. I remember that being suggested on the subreddit at some point, and it turned into something of a meme. Oifey ought to remain his own character.

As for the "Avatar", I gave them the "Tactician" and "Grandmaster" classes somewhat reflexively. They don't necessarily need to have either that name or function, though. In my proposal, they're just another noble who has a pre-existing friendship with Sigurd, so maybe they could get the "Noble" class? And instead of promoting at level 20, they could do so right after the timeskip (regardless of level), into the "Veteran" class, emphasizing their experience.

It's kind of funny how "Tactician" is still associated with the Avatar when that was literally just Robin's thing. I guess for a while there we did refer to the idea of an Avatar as a tactician, but even before that Kris wasn't a tactician and Corrin and Byleth definitely broke the connection. I guess way back in the day Kris was very much a tactician and an ur-Avatar which lends some credence to the connection, but still, firmly broken with the Grandmaster class being a Robin cosplay in the following games it's shown up in. Personally I think a New Mystery style "Hey, chose the class you like for your Avatar" way of going about things would be the best method. Genealogy's low deployment roster means there's not a whole lot of class variation between characters (though at least the variation in each individual gen 2 character is immense)., with some classes having just one playable character in them. Course everyone would just end up picking cavalier...because Genealogy.

[Acacia Sgt]

26 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's kind of funny how "Tactician" is still associated with the Avatar when that was literally just Robin's thing. I guess for a while there we did refer to the idea of an Avatar as a tactician, but even before that Kris wasn't a tactician and Corrin and Byleth definitely broke the connection. I guess way back in the day Kris was very much a tactician and an ur-Avatar which lends some credence to the connection, but still, firmly broken with the Grandmaster class being a Robin cosplay in the following games it's shown up in. Personally I think a New Mystery style "Hey, chose the class you like for your Avatar" way of going about things would be the best method. Genealogy's low deployment roster means there's not a whole lot of class variation between characters (though at least the variation in each individual gen 2 character is immense)., with some classes having just one playable character in them. Course everyone would just end up picking cavalier...because Genealogy.

There was also Mark.

At least for international audiences it was basically Kris being skipped so we got two Avatars who were tacticians in a row. Yes, even with the large time and audience gap between Mark and Robin, but it was still there.

If we do some cross-referencing, IS also had the Advisor in the first Advance Wars, so that was another "avatar" in that role (not for nothing the Advisor and Mark were basically the exact same thing in execution).

Edited March 15, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's kind of funny how "Tactician" is still associated with the Avatar when that was literally just Robin's thing. I guess for a while there we did refer to the idea of an Avatar as a tactician, but even before that Kris wasn't a tactician and Corrin and Byleth definitely broke the connection. I guess way back in the day Kris was very much a tactician and an ur-Avatar which lends some credence to the connection, but still, firmly broken with the Grandmaster class being a Robin cosplay in the following games it's shown up in. Personally I think a New Mystery style "Hey, chose the class you like for your Avatar" way of going about things would be the best method. Genealogy's low deployment roster means there's not a whole lot of class variation between characters (though at least the variation in each individual gen 2 character is immense)., with some classes having just one playable character in them. Course everyone would just end up picking cavalier...because Genealogy.

If the player got to choose their Avatar's class, I wonder what they'd pick? If Dancer were an option, then that'd almost certainly be the "optimal" pick. Thief could also be really good, as a unit who can take and give gold while having (presumably) decent combat. Prince or Princess would be interesting, too - the Avatar would be very limited at the start, but would eventually promote to the best class in the game.

Assuming none of those are options, however, I think there are a few clear favorites: Cavalier, Troubadour, and Free Knight. Cavalier has the most weapon options of the three, while Troubadour adds Staff utility to the mix. At first, Free Knight looks like a strictly worse Cavalier. But when it promotes, it bumps up to A-rank Swords (i.e. Silver Sword, the Blades), and it gets Adept as a class skill. All these classes offer great movement, with Troubadour/Paladin(F) adding Staff utility into the mix, but it's definitely a worthwhile debate whether Paladin(M) is better than Ranger (or Forrest Knight, or whatever we're calling the promoted Free Knight). Of course, this raises certain questions: can a female Avatar be a Cavalier? A male Avatar, a Troubadour? And when they promote, would it be to the "gender-appropriate" version of Paladin, or the "base-class-appropriate" version of Paladin? Finally, should female Free Knights and Rangers be a thing?

My preference is still to keep the Avatar limited to a single, unique class. That way, they can't get mounted movement, or flight at a time when you're supposed to have no fliers. Instead, the Tactician class (or maybe I'll call it "Noble") would just be able to use the C-rank incarnations of any weapon/tome/staff it can get its hands on. You can customize the unit (and their growths) by adding some minor Holy Blood into the mix, letting them get to B-rank in your area of choice. And when they promote, everything would go up a rank. But I'd rather keep them held to infantry movement. I don't want another unit that can just trivialize the game like Sigurd.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd say, if the game were to have an avatar, that execution sounds very good.

A Noble class as a nod to Three Houses, which based itself on Genealogy to begin with, which would be basically a poor man's version of the Master Knight. With the promotion being the middle point between it and Master Knight.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

There was also Mark.

At least for international audiences it was basically Kris being skipped so we got two Avatars who were tacticians in a row. Yes, even with the large time and audience gap between Mark and Robin, but it was still there.

If we do some cross-referencing, IS also had the Advisor in the first Advance Wars, so that was another "avatar" in that role (not for nothing the Advisor and Mark were basically the exact same thing in execution).

Whoops. I meant Mark when I said the Ur Avatar, but I said Kris twice.

6 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

If the player got to choose their Avatar's class, I wonder what they'd pick? If Dancer were an option, then that'd almost certainly be the "optimal" pick. Thief could also be really good, as a unit who can take and give gold while having (presumably) decent combat. Prince or Princess would be interesting, too - the Avatar would be very limited at the start, but would eventually promote to the best class in the game.

Assuming none of those are options, however, I think there are a few clear favorites: Cavalier, Troubadour, and Free Knight. Cavalier has the most weapon options of the three, while Troubadour adds Staff utility to the mix. At first, Free Knight looks like a strictly worse Cavalier. But when it promotes, it bumps up to A-rank Swords (i.e. Silver Sword, the Blades), and it gets Adept as a class skill. All these classes offer great movement, with Troubadour/Paladin(F) adding Staff utility into the mix, but it's definitely a worthwhile debate whether Paladin(M) is better than Ranger (or Forrest Knight, or whatever we're calling the promoted Free Knight). Of course, this raises certain questions: can a female Avatar be a Cavalier? A male Avatar, a Troubadour? And when they promote, would it be to the "gender-appropriate" version of Paladin, or the "base-class-appropriate" version of Paladin? Finally, should female Free Knights and Rangers be a thing?

My preference is still to keep the Avatar limited to a single, unique class. That way, they can't get mounted movement, or flight at a time when you're supposed to have no fliers. Instead, the Tactician class (or maybe I'll call it "Noble") would just be able to use the C-rank incarnations of any weapon/tome/staff it can get its hands on. You can customize the unit (and their growths) by adding some minor Holy Blood into the mix, letting them get to B-rank in your area of choice. And when they promote, everything would go up a rank. But I'd rather keep them held to infantry movement. I don't want another unit that can just trivialize the game like Sigurd.

Well dancer wasn't an option in New Mystery, so it almost wouldn't be a possibility in a Genealogy remake. Though a dancer as the atual prf class of an avatar, with the avatar's backstory playing into dancing, would be neat and carve a good niche for gameplay.

I likewise couldn't see Prince/Princess being an option, but I could see Thief being legitimate. It doesn't feel nearly as "special" a class as Master KNight or Dancer. Though, once again, I don't think Kris was able to be a Thief.

I don't see having mounted or flight when you're not supposed to have it as much of an issue. For one, you always have mounted units. SO that's no concern. As for the flight, that can easily be fixed with those yellow wall tiles blocking off sections of the map. You get flight pretty early in gen 2 any way. The only thing flight would really do is provide disproportionately good utility in the forests of Verdane.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well dancer wasn't an option in New Mystery, so it almost wouldn't be a possibility in a Genealogy remake. Though a dancer as the atual prf class of an avatar, with the avatar's backstory playing into dancing, would be neat and carve a good niche for gameplay.

I likewise couldn't see Prince/Princess being an option, but I could see Thief being legitimate. It doesn't feel nearly as "special" a class as Master KNight or Dancer. Though, once again, I don't think Kris was able to be a Thief.

I don't see having mounted or flight when you're not supposed to have it as much of an issue. For one, you always have mounted units. SO that's no concern. As for the flight, that can easily be fixed with those yellow wall tiles blocking off sections of the map. You get flight pretty early in gen 2 any way. The only thing flight would really do is provide disproportionately good utility in the forests of Verdane.

Kris couldn't because Thief was a standalone class that couldn't promote but could get to level 30, like the Lord class. Genealogy's Thief can promote, so it would certainly be an option for any hypothetical Avatar.

Having a flier right of the bat would certainly be a boon when it comes to the Chapter 2 villages, considering the map layout.

[Emperor Hardin]

@Jotari and @Acacia Sgt 

It should also be noted that Kris can't start as a Pirate, Hunter, Curate/Cleric, Dark Mage or Male Myrmidon even among the promotable classes. I think IS prioritized the "main" or "popular" classes?

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

It should also be noted that Kris can't start as a Pirate, Hunter, Curate/Cleric, Dark Mage or Male Myrmidon even among the promotable classes. I think IS prioritized the "main" or "popular" classes?

At least they could reclass into them.

Curate/Cleric was likely because it can't attack, and you need to for the first Prologue chapter. The selection certainly looks like it's just one option per type of class. Specially since it's Mercenary for Male Kris and Myrmidon for Female Kris, but both are sword infantry. So no Hunter due Archer, no Dark Mage due to Mage, no Pirate due to Fighter. But well, that'd be the extent of it, otherwise how to explain Male Kris having Knight to Female Kris Pegasus Knight, outside being both the lance-only classes. Or maybe that's the reason. Since there's no Female Knights, only Generals.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Acacia Sgt