I Can't Believe It's Not SFMM3 Minimafia - Game Over

[Psych]

My scumwatch is like baywatch, but different.

in that it's in slow motion, wearing a red swimsuit, usually over by the time they get there and also the high point of David hasslehof's career

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Simple version:

Game Starts

RVS

opening votes

somebody does something interesting

people talk about that something

We are no longer in RVS

In this case, the something interesting was supposed to be the Cam wagon. People started talking about that. People started to comment on the people talking about that. We exited RVS. Therefore, the Cam wagon led us out of RVS.

[Shinori]

i'm miller

Lol I bet you're me.

Also Manix and Elieson need to stop acting dumb

I agree.

Ok, what do we have now. My misinterpretation, piles of RVS that actually got someone to L-4, and a miller claim. I dunno, I guess for right now, I believe the miller claim. It was played pretty standard, and I don't really have any reason not to doubt it at this point. Does anyone else have actual thoughts regarding Cam!Miller at this point (since there's not much else going on that's really progress-relevant)?

Talking about the miller is pointless I think. HE claimed it and we really have no reason to not believe it.

if it makes things any more relevant

NOW IT'S REIN TIME

yeah it doesn't actually do anything but now you know my actual role

Well there went my last guess. GG.

This isn't right either.

Scumwatch:

Manix

Helios

Actually, yeah, ##Unvote, Vote: Helios

Posts so far have been filler/non-committal attempts at content.

You posted about how Elieson wasn't right or whatever like twice. Are you saying he doesn't feel right, cause you are commenting on him but not adding him to your scum watch list or whatever. Could you verify your thoughts on Elieson please?

Vig if we have one should shoot Cam

Why?

misread your post

Did your opinion change?

lmao, you are grasping

I disagree. You aren't doing anything beneficial and it seems like you are skimming. Why?

Cam/Kay argument seems pointless and is most likely town-on-town.

Back from changing my wife's flat tire, and this is the post I log in to see.

Of course everyone is like "oh no why would you wagon in rvs!" Because yes you learn shit from it, but you have to risk sacrificing to the lambs in order to do so, when there are other, non-sacrificial ways to approach these things.

That way, votes actually matter, and you don't have to waste time trying to figure out who was serious about the "3rd" or "5th" RVS vote, and who was joking when they said "X, I don't like you today VOTE".

Because vote analysis is cool, and RVS vote analysis is stupid. The only thing you effectively learn from is from the last 1/3-1/4 voters, and that's an IF even at that.

You vanished, and magically come back when someone mentions your name. =| Wut?

If someone gets lynched because of an RVS wagon the town either has so much nonthinking dead weight that you weren't winning anyway or the mafia were incredibly blatant

Lynches don't happen by accident

Are you going to do anything useful?

Okay so far:

Town reads on Kay, Helios, and cam, Scum reads on Elieson and Paperblade, Null on mostly everyone else. Still don't know what to think of Weapons because last game I thought he was scum early swapped to town, and he was scum. Whatever.

Questions.

@Weapons: How long have you thought Elieson was scummy? If you thought he was scummy way back when you were telling him he was wrong about your arguments why wasn't he on your scum watch? And why did you think manix was scummier than him at that point in time?

@Paperblade: Where are you? Could I get your opinion on Elieson and Weapons? You probably know weapons more than me so that would be helpful.

@Elieson: Why don't you have a vote at the moment? Who is scum Elie? You seem to be too defensive towards weapons and it seems like you aren't scum hunting, why not?

@Cam: You are most likely town in my eyes, opinions on Paperblade and Manix if you don't mind?

And to finish it off for now:

##Vote: Elieson

Could you do something productive please?

Also Requesting votals.

[Shinori]

Oh yeah /confirm

Also rein I see you there.

@Rein: Thoughts on Kay/Helios if you could.

[Grace]

##thoughts

Weapons feels to me like he's just posting stuff that tries to look like contributing (Pot this is kettle), but isn't in parts (see: his scumwatch which he never explains any reasons for). He's mostly always being ambiguous about what he's saying, which I don't like.

The tone of his posts also bothers me, ever since he jumped on Elie. Not quite sure what to think of that.

Paperblade also irks me because his contributions consisted of an attack that was not backed up for any reason, and... not much. :/

- On that note, @Shinori: Why did you agree with that? Explain yourself.

I'm now worried about the Elie wagon that formed; considering he's at L-3 (if I'm correct). Can everyone on the wagon state exactly why, with quotes, that Elie is scummy?

Shinori's large post is just kinda... eh. Something about in general it feels off, but I can't quite figure out why (aside from the one point I pointed out above). Maybe it's just my head being a pain.

[Paperblade]

Helios is grasping because when he made the post the game had been on for less than 4 hours and is accusing me for active lurking when I voted and commented on 3 players within 2 posts, including an original opinion. His posts look like he is trying to look for any little thing he can make people look bad over, which is questionable

Miller is confirmed to not be a power role but could still be mafia. Why wouldn't the vig shoot it unless he had a very good role-related reason not to (very limited in shots or dies if he hits town)?

If I think someone is scum I'll say it, why the fuck are you asking me about Elieson and Weapons?

[Grace]

inb4 people say I'm buddies with Elie

[Iris]

Elieson (4) - CT075, Paperblade, Weapons, Shinori

CT075 (2) - Strider, San

Paperblade (1) - Helios

Strider (1) - Manix

Seoyeon (1) - Aere

Not Voting - Bluedoom, Elieson, scorri, Seoyeon

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have 65 hours left in the day.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Iris

[Kay]

i'm miller

is there REALLY any benefit in me staying silent?

sure, it's one less person that could be cop

but if i don't claim then i get inspected and we spend a day mislynching me (which is arguably worse)

It's not a matter of whether you should have claimed as miller. You said there was no drawback to useless roles claiming.

Weapons never explains himself. He never has. He doesn't look scummy to me.

[Grace]

Weapons never explains himself. He never has. He doesn't look scummy to me.

All I can say is meta abuse (I couldn't find a quote for it, but Paper said something in a recentish game about it). You don't let people off because they stick to their meta, right?

[Grace]

The problem with overuse of meta is that strong players will abuse it as scum while weak players will get free obvtown passes, so the latter never really get better, causing stagnation etc.

nvm, found it

[Kay]

All I can say is meta abuse (I couldn't find a quote for it, but Paper said something in a recentish game about it). You don't let people off because they stick to their meta, right?

It's not just the meta.

[Shinori]

I just want your opinions Paperblade, am I not allowed to ask for your opinions? =| You still didn't explain why it seemed like you were skimming and even misread cam's posts considering he hadn't voted Kay.

@Manix: I was told to use more quotes with my posts/thoughts so I quoted stuff as I read. I didn't ever say I technically agreed with Helios, you are misrepping what I stated. I said I disagreed with Paperblades "Lol you are grasping" statement, because I didn't see it as fully grasping. Paperblade hadn't said much at that point in time and had asked for a vig to shoot cam, which i do partially dis-agree with because in a game of this size I'd be willing to be the vig is limited shots, if we even had one.

I didn't really like papers reaction to my simple question. I did this last game and he didn't ask me why the fuck I was asking about specific people.

Also I didn't even notice that Elieson had spiked upwards to 4 votes already, but whatever.

My reasoning on Elieson:

Ok...so you think we should continue to RVS? Good plan, except for the part that not a good plan (unless RVS is some age old tactic that leads to success more often than not for logical reasons).

##Vote WoMC

Forgot to do that.

These two posts seem really bad, OMGUS on weapons basically textbook style. Also I don't think Weapons was ever trying to say that RVS is more important than normal votes or that we should just be sitting in RVS and I'm sure Elie knew that.

Then I think I misinterpretted WoMC's message. What I thought you implied was a serious response to my serious mode post. My bad :/ ##Unvote

Maybe you need to see that I'm not trying to act dumb, but apparently I'm good at it? :O Ok, what do we have now. My misinterpretation, piles of RVS that actually got someone to L-4, and a miller claim. I dunno, I guess for right now, I believe the miller claim. It was played pretty standard, and I don't really have any reason not to doubt it at this point. Does anyone else have actual thoughts regarding Cam!Miller at this point (since there's not much else going on that's really progress-relevant)?

An unvote and pretty much a pointless post for the most part. Not really scum hunting, and also talking about miller stuff with no revote.

Let's go back here for now.

##Unvote, Vote: Elieson

Back from changing my wife's flat tire, and this is the post I log in to see.

Of course everyone is like "oh no why would you wagon in rvs!" Because yes you learn shit from it, but you have to risk sacrificing to the lambs in order to do so, when there are other, non-sacrificial ways to approach these things.

That way, votes actually matter, and you don't have to waste time trying to figure out who was serious about the "3rd" or "5th" RVS vote, and who was joking when they said "X, I don't like you today VOTE".

Because vote analysis is cool, and RVS vote analysis is stupid. The only thing you effectively learn from is from the last 1/3-1/4 voters, and that's an IF even at that.

Weapons votes him and he magically appears. >.>" I mean real life yeah, but then it goes on to be:

I'm under the impression that either of these are possible, based on past events and the dreaded inactivity, so I'd like to try to prevent that from happening

I think you're scum purposely missing the point.

Unless your point is "Let's build RVS wagons to inch pressure activity from anyone and everyone, not just the person being voted" or "let's risk things like random players who have had virtually no time to contribute anything, at all", then I need clarification.

I still don't see what you're trying to say. I think Manix and Kay have made their point in one post, while you have danced around the reasoning behind your motivation.

Pointless argument that has no scum hunting in it from Elieson and no revote yet from earlier, he had plenty of time to revote but didn't. He seems extremely defensive towards Weapons at the moment.

[Grace]

Shinori, read my question about the attack again. (ie: Paper's attack that had no backing, the second thing you quoted.)

rest of the post shortly

[Grace]

@Manix: I was told to use more quotes with my posts/thoughts so I quoted stuff as I read.

I never said I had a problem with that; mostly the actual content felt off.

I didn't ever say I technically agreed with Helios, you are misrepping what I stated. I said I disagreed with Paperblades "Lol you are grasping" statement, because I didn't see it as fully grasping. Paperblade hadn't said much at that point in time and had asked for a vig to shoot cam, which i do partially dis-agree with because in a game of this size I'd be willing to be the vig is limited shots, if we even had one.

See previous post.

rest of the post is fine, at least at an initial read.

[Shinori]

Oh I mis read that my bad Manix.

basically because I think you're scum? k, I'll keep that in mind

okay, sure.

I didn't find either of these posts really nesacarry because I doubt Scum@Weapons would be silly enough to say he thinks your scum because you think he's scum from a gut feeling, that's just about as bad as the OMGUS from elieson onto weapons had seemed. So I just didn't find it a smart move. Most of my agreement with Paper thought was on the Elieson situation because Elieson was being dumb in my own opinion. The OMGUS on weapons and reasoning for it wasn't good at all.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

You posted about how Elieson wasn't right or whatever like twice. Are you saying he doesn't feel right, cause you are commenting on him but not adding him to your scum watch list or whatever. Could you verify your thoughts on Elieson please?

Well I am voting him. Scumwatch is supplemental.

@Weapons: How long have you thought Elieson was scummy? If you thought he was scummy way back when you were telling him he was wrong about your arguments why wasn't he on your scum watch? And why did you think manix was scummier than him at that point in time?

Go the post where I first voted Elieson. The other questions don't really apply.

I realize I digressed quite a bit with the whole RVS argument, but that's something that's really outside of the context of town or scum. When I get back tomorrow, I'll probably do the same with meta.

Also, Helios is off the scumwatch, as of the vote change.

I re-read Elieson's best formatted post, and it's actually empty calories. So those points are gone.

Also, what Shinori said.

[Grace]

Those posts mostly existed for reaction pulling (first post); and letting people know that I got what I wanted from them (second post).

Well, maybe you should have clarified that when you quoted it then?

[Grace]

that was @Shinori; because cut

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

It's not a matter of whether you should have claimed as miller. You said there was no drawback to useless roles claiming.

Weapons never explains himself. He never has. He doesn't look scummy to me.

I do totally do.

but no one understands me

[Shinori]

Those posts mostly existed for reaction pulling (first post); and letting people know that I got what I wanted from them (second post).

Well, maybe you should have clarified that when you quoted it then?

I should have, yes. Sorry about that.

I didn't mean any offense if you took any either Manix.

I'm going to sleep though now guys. I should have headed to bed an hour ago. Night. I'll be free more tomorrow evening though and maybe some time tomorrow morning.

[Aere]

or you can stop attacking my playstyle, for no apparent reason

I have my eye on you.

I really hate this post. Along with his vote on Rein, his non-vote "I'll leave you be..." on Cam, and his random scum calling, it warrants a vote.

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

[Grace]

three things:

Paper never explained himself there

Rein vote was mostly an RVS vote

I was never that suspicious of Cam considering his miller claim

question to you: you opportunistic scum finally?

[Grace]

and on that note

##Unvote

[Paperblade]

Explained myself about what?