Avatar the Last Airbender Mafia: D4ends 5/2 at 9:30 PM EST

[Sunwoo]

I think Elie has enough votes on him for the time being, and I'm going to wait for him to respond before deciding whether I still don't like his content or not. I don't like his reason for voting BBM, and I don't feel that what he's voting BBM over is as "strange" as he is implying.

##Unvote

##Vote: Strider

You've been around, you've seen stuff happen. Why is it that the majority of your posts are padded with telling people about the characters that had been claimed using "wiki-fu"? Do you have any opinions?

Also, Mancer, you have to stop your obsession about how "weird" it is that I "carelessly claimed an important character". Unless you have substantial evidence to believe that claiming Roku is "unwise" or that I'm "an important role", your line of reasoning is pointless and rather hypocritical.

[MancerNecro]

Please don't bring that back up anymore then if you do not want me to talk about it. My so-called "obsession" is a lingering suspicion on you that I've decided to shelve temporarily. I "brought it back up" because I was responding to Kay who had a comment and question about it.

So, if people have doubts or questions about me or my reads, I'm supposed to ignore them just to not talk about an issue.

WRT prodding inactives: I don't really think that prodding inactives serves any purpose, especially when not even 24 hours has passed in the phrase. The "inactives" could just be unable to log on due to timezones or might be temporarily busy. Come 48 hours or more in the phrase or if they have not posted from Day 1 into Day 2, I might actually request for their opinions and comments on the thread's discussions.

[MancerNecro]

EBWOP:

Please don't bring that back up anymore then if you do not want me to talk about it. My so-called "obsession" is a lingering suspicion on you that I've decided to shelve temporarily. I "brought it back up" because I was responding to Kay who had a comment and question about it.

So, if people have doubts or questions about me or my reads, I'm supposed to ignore them just to not talk about an issue?

WRT prodding inactives: I don't really think that prodding inactives serves any purpose, especially when not even 24 hours has passed in the phrase. The "inactives" could just be unable to log on due to timezones or might be temporarily busy. Come 48 hours or more in the phrase or if they have not posted from Day 1 into Day 2, I might actually request for their opinions and comments on the thread's discussions.

Only edit I made was at the end of the second paragraph. I changed the period into a question mark.

[MancerNecro]

I'm not really a fan of Blitz's rolefishing either. He's doing the same thing as Fear the Pika in assuming I have something more apart from my Miller role. Here's the thing: I am just a plain Miller. Any more poking will be useless and incessant poking will be rolefishing which is heavily anti-town.

[MancerNecro]

Can I request votals?

[Shinori]

It seems to me like a lot of the current discussion isn't actually going to be that helpful to us.

Also I don't think we should claim elements.

I'll do an in-depth post tomorrow but I feel like a lot of the discussion hasn't been great.

[Prims]

This day has been going on for what, 5 hours, and there are already six pages about roles I don't care about? fuck that shit

Mancer's Miller claim seems plausible to me, as my role also consists of only one completely useless component despite this being a game where everyone has roles.

##Vote: Rein

None of his posts are townie.

Also, vig FearThePika if he uses the emoticon "xD" ever again.

[charlie_]

I want votals to work with, so...

(probably flawed) Votals

[5] Elieson: BBM, Mancer, Marth, Kay, Blitz

[2] Mancer: BBM, SB, Strege

[2] BBM: Shinori, Elieson

[2] Rein: Boron, Prims

[1] Psych: Rein, Blitz

[1] Prims: Kay, Psych

[1] Shinori: eclipse

[0] Blitz: Boron

[0] Strege: eclipse

[0] Marth: Mancer

[0] Boron: Strege, Mancer

[0] FTP: SB, BBM

[0] eclipse: Elieson

May be wrong, meh. The Eli wagon built up pretty quickly, there's either opportunistic scum or a lot of lazy townies on it.

@Blitz, Night 0 it would have done nothing, apparently.

Gonna look through the Eli wagon in depth in a bit.

[charlie_]

Also, Rein. I see you there, post.

[Psych]

##Unvote, Vote MancerNecro

All of this is just a mess and role grasping this hard this fast seems really scummy to me.

[MancerNecro]

Since when did I role grasp? Role grasp = role fish?

If anything, I was the one being role grasped/fished the most since start of phase.

[riariadne]

Hey so did nobody see the first part of my previous post or do people think it's too flavorspec or what

I don't like Elie's most recent post and am apparently not alone in this because of the pretty noticeable contradiction in it and his early eclipse vote- he's just really scummy so far. Also I notice that Mancer's argument against Boron seems to change notably from post 55, where he says Roku seems like a safeclaim, to 75, where he says Roku is important and just doesn't like the way she claimed. What's up with that, Mancer?

@Psych: I don't really think what Mancer was doing was rolefishing even though I don't like it.

##unvote (Psych)

##Vote: Elieson

[MancerNecro]

Do you really want me to answer that question? Because if I do, others are just likely to say that I am obsessing over it.

[Elieson]

Wow I've effectively seen people mostly flavor spec and debate on whether to claim elements or not which means nothing to me as:

I'm assuming flavor claims mean nothing

I'm assuming element claims mean nothing

A miller claim means nothing at this point as well, so while I think Mancer's play is horrible, I don't think it's scummy. I think Mancer is telling the truth about his role, and I also think that he is using methods [albeit horrible] to try to hunt for scum. Based on what I've seen, I'd be up to lynchjng Mancer if he wouldn't stop pushing this idea, only to stop him from cluttering the thread with confusion, and that's not indicative of alignment, it's indicative of ED1 logic being generally weak.

My vote on eclipse was nothin more than RVS because nothing of value had been said up to this point, and I wasn't finding anything worth pursuing as the topics were "should we be stupid and claim meaningless info" and "lets see how Mancer contradicts himself this time".

Even blitz is Flavorhunting right now. God why is this still happening.

With a healthy amount of players having done absolutely nothing, my scumreads are weak. I'd like to see any form of interaction from Rein, as well as anything at all from Prims, Grass, Etc. considering game has been on for all of what like 5 hours I'm not filling my mind with assumptions on player alignment when not everyone has even posted yet. I'm not gonna build anything that could be blown into Bias. However I think that out of everything, I have more suspicion on BBM for his weird assumption that there's "antitown" concerned specifically with Elements. This is a strange idea to bring up, and so early, and out of all the element banter I've read, this is the weirdest.

##Unvote

##Vote BBM

Should I point out the bold in my own post for you guys? Miller claims generally mean nothing on d1 but that doesn't change the fact that he claimed every bit of his role and that for the time being I believe his claim (to a Lesser extent) to be town, and his gameplay (to a greater extent) to be poor town play, not scum play.

---I don't think he's lying about the thing that matters least about his posts. His play irritates me but doesn't read scum to me. Does that make any sense to you people? BBM? Blitz?---

I said that it's a possibility that anti-town have an element-related role. That's it. That possibility, combined with the fact that element != alignment, is what I was trying to use to show why element claiming might not be a good idea. Also, if I were scum and we did indeed have an element-related role, why would I be discouraging element claiming? I would be encouraging it, because it'd help scum out.

Also, considering half of that post complains how nobody is doing anything other than flavourhunting, why does your vote against me relate to that?

Additionally, I don't like what you said wrt Mancer. You don't think he's scummy, but you'd be up to lynching him just to clear the thread of confusion? That's the sort of shitty logic that led to town lynching him in Folgore Rangers after he claimed Doctor. There's ED1 logic, and then there's bad logic.

I'm looking at this and recalling that in FFMafia, Scorri crumbed so hard her role in various parts midgame-LATEGAME, and this is a pretty similar style tidbit of crumb that I can't just overlook.

Continuing my thoughts, where I'm criticizing the player base for Flavorhunting, you're posting assumptions to wincons and roles rather than just one or the other, like everyone else. I don't like that people were assuming X equals Y, but you took it to a different level.

WrT the italicized. Do you even read? I made a whole extra post emphasizing my sarcasm about lynching someone to stop them from talking, but I'm assuming you must have missed that.

[Elieson]

Meanwhile Shinori is now pinging my radar. He's actively posting surgical discharge (nothing) when the game hasn't even been on for 12 hours.

[Fear The Pika]

I'm not really a fan of Blitz's rolefishing either. He's doing the same thing as Fear the Pika in assuming I have something more apart from my Miller role. Here's the thing: I am just a plain Miller. Any more poking will be useless and incessant poking will be rolefishing which is heavily anti-town.

Well now that I know Miller without extra powers to "compensate" is a thing, I'm more neutral on you than "you have something more you're hiding".

As for who's scummy, the only person I've gotten any real "I'm not town" vibes from is Elieson, but not quite enough to vote for him. Mancer was a horrible hypocrite, but that in itself isn't scum play, as long as the behavior stops. I still think element claiming is a good idea, however, maybe not at this time. When we get later into the game, maybe, but not now.

[charlie_]

Eh, not liking Marth much at all. He's only made 2 posts, and then he just disappeared.

All his first post was is calling out Elieson's eclipse vote for passive aggressiveness (which I don't really see why that is), and throwing in a bit about Mancer's Boron vote, but he's "not passing judgement" just yet, which sounds like he's just trying to stay neutral so he can flip sides if he needs to.

The second post was just him complaining about all of the rolespec (yes, it's lame, but better now than later - and why do you need to make another post on it?)

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth

@FTP, hiding part of a miller role isn't really scummy, the miller part is all that needs to be claimed.

[Strege]

Would it make sense for Serious Bananas to share his character? The rules only say that elements and roles are important, and he's already revealed those. Revealing his character has no downside I can see, and might help us identify scum if someone else claims the same character.

[riariadne]

Er no. That would be unhelpful as if he claims his character then scum would know to avoid claiming that (though this is a non-issue if scorri gave the mafia fakeclaim characters)

[Elieson]

Claiming a character could be indicative of alignment, which is already a controversial topic.

[Elieson]

Ahhhh I mean Element not Alignment I'm a derp

[Zanarkin]

It's been like three hours since phase start and Kiryn, Prims, Slayer, and Grassbridger still haven't posted. Come on guys, lives and timezones aren't an excuse. Look at SB staying up until 5 am to claim PGO; what a trooper.

Sorry, I had a movie marathon with friends yesterday and did not get back until 3:30 in the morning.

Why are/were some people assuming element has a connection to alignment (for example, Boron claimed her character due to this)? For all we know, the Avatar team could be the mafia team. Also, Fear The Pika's push for element mass claiming it seems odd to me.

I'm going to go and ##Vote Mancer

His aggressiveness towards Boron seems rather uncalled for and useless.

[Zanarkin]

Why are/were some people assuming element has a connection to alignment (for example, Boron claimed her character due to this)? For all we know, the Avatar team could be the mafia team. Also, Fear The Pika's push for element mass claiming it seems odd to me.

Let me add to this. The first post says that elements are important, therefore i do not think we should be pushing for a mass claim right off the bat.

[scorri]

Grass has informed me that he won't be around til later tonight, sorry, I should have mentioned that earlier.

[Strege]

Ahhhh I mean Element not Alignment I'm a derp

SB has already claimed that he is a PGO and his element is water, so that's a non-issue in this particular case, but I see what LiquidSnake is saying. I just feel like if we're going to investigate roles, we should keep in mind our other two data points (SB claiming water PGO and Psych claiming some kind of night role that got misdirected).