Periodic Table of Elements ~Game Thread~ Game Over

[BBM]

I was exaggerating because you're frustrating me and it's making me remember the shitty posts more than the ones where you do elaborate, but 8/10/12/41/53 are basically what I'm talking about.

I think you are town pursuing a very bad case, which is why I am frustrated.

Poly- in 33 you said that you weren't picking up scummy vibes from me. What's reminding you of Snooping Around if not me?

[Sunwoo]

so you don't have any reads on us... but you want others to give reads on us?

boron, what are your reads on me/prims then? can't ask for something and not always give your own answer

I never said I didn't have any reads on you guys. I said that what you guys aren't doing isn't doing anything to change the reads I already have ;/

I think you're town. I think Prims is town. I think BBM feels more like C9++!town!BBM rather than scum!BBM.

[MRDRHAWK]

Poly- in 33 you said that you weren't picking up scummy vibes from me. What's reminding you of Snooping Around if not me?

Refa going under the radar as a possible scumread (although I read him town the whole way, so w/e) and the fact that you are really are playing quite similarly to how you did in Snoop aside from trying to mislynch me to the nth degree

I'm not thinking you're scum just yet, but considering the Snoop vibes I'm getting from Refa, I'm keeping wary of you being scum since you suckered everyone then too with very similar play.

[BBM]

you answered my question with a question to try and deflect from actually giving a good answer straight away. doesn't make you look town at all

Reading between the lines tells you that my question is an answer. >_>

[Grace]

alright boron, cool

and past responding to bbm again (which i won't because /effort), there's not much more i can really say right now

so hence, i'm going off to play tf2

[Grace]

and cut, so

Reading between the lines tells you that my question is an answer. >_>

not necessarily; it still implicitly dodges the question by making it seem like I/we have the burden of proof when in fact, it is your job to convince me/us that your statement is true

[Grace]

now i'm going

back in a bit

[BBM]

Refa going under the radar as a possible scumread (although I read him town the whole way, so w/e) and the fact that you are really are playing quite similarly to how you did in Snoop aside from trying to mislynch me to the nth degree

I'm not thinking you're scum just yet, but considering the Snoop vibes I'm getting from Refa, I'm keeping wary of you being scum since you suckered everyone then too with very similar play.

This post makes no sense. I was scum in Snooping Around. If you think I'm playing very similarly here as I did then, why don't you think I'm scum? And considering the majority of the game was scumreading me in Snoop I'm not sure how I suckered anyone there either.

If you're getting Snooping vibes from Refa as well, is your vote on him serious? Your tone when you voted him implied otherwise.

[BBM]

derp

Edited November 3, 2013 by BigBadMarshmallow

[scorri]

(I think that was wrong thread)

[MRDRHAWK]

Well, it is now. It may not necessarily have been at the time, but the Snoop vibes I'm getting make me suspect Refa is scum.

And I feel like if you were scum, you'd be going after somebody else aside from Manix to score a quick mislynch and throw town off. Either that or Manix is outplaying you in a way I couldn't in Snoop, in which case w/e. That, and I don't think Refa's not dumb enough to bus you D1 unless he's really trying to throw us off.

[Sunwoo]

gg BBM

[MRDRHAWK]

And yeah, that was the wrong thread for that BBM

[Grassbridger]

I honestly have no idea how anyone can read anything from what we have so far, in terms of tone at least, and in terms of things that will last to the end of the day. But I don't get a great feeling from that Polydeuces post, can't put my finger on it. (something along the lines of: "that's a lot of levels of thought for this early in the game.)

##Unvote

##Vote: Polydeuces

[BBM]

yeah I realized but I didn't want to make a post solely going OOPS (also Scorri gave me permission to edit it out)

Well, it is now. It may not necessarily have been at the time, but the Snoop vibes I'm getting make me suspect Refa is scum.

And I feel like if you were scum, you'd be going after somebody else aside from Manix to score a quick mislynch and throw town off. Either that or Manix is outplaying you in a way I couldn't in Snoop, in which case w/e. That, and I don't think Refa's not dumb enough to bus you D1 unless he's really trying to throw us off.

Can you try that last sentence again; currently it reads like "I don't think Refa is smart enough to bus you D1" except that doesn't make any sense.

@Grass- Things don't necessarily have to last to the end of the day. Is that Poly vote something that will last to the end of the day? Also, why is thinking that much scummy early on? It's not like he's nitpicking to push a lynch on me or anything; it's actually the opposite. One would think that if he wanted to fabricate a townread there would be simpler ways of doing so.

[MRDRHAWK]

Can you try that last sentence again; currently it reads like "I don't think Refa is smart enough to bus you D1" except that doesn't make any sense.

Why the hell would you legitimately bus on D1? I said that I don't think he's not dumb enough to do so, not that he is dumb if he does so.

[MRDRHAWK]

remove the not, god damn I'm not thinking straight today

[Grace]

And I feel like if you were scum, you'd be going after somebody else aside from Manix to score a quick mislynch and throw town off.

it's 3 hours into the phase, quick mislynches are not a thing

you're going to have to explain this

That, and I don't think Refa's not dumb enough to bus you D1 unless he's really trying to throw us off.

it's ED1. scum will probably try to have little pieces of interactions, whether that be distancing or bussing or whatever. his bbm vote was rvs, which barely constitutes a bus.

you're going to need to make more sense poly because damn it's making it hard to read you

[Grassbridger]

@Grass- Things don't necessarily have to last to the end of the day. Is that Poly vote something that will last to the end of the day? Also, why is thinking that much scummy early on? It's not like he's nitpicking to push a lynch on me or anything; it's actually the opposite. One would think that if he wanted to fabricate a townread there would be simpler ways of doing so.

I just thought "that doesn't really seem plausible at all". And re: thinking too much early: scum know from the get-go that they have to manufacture something, so I'd think they'd be more inclined to be graspy ED1 in general.

[BBM]

Well, yes, I can understand thinking that grasping is scummy, but as I said in my last post, what exactly is scum!Poly grasping for? When you say somebody is scummy for grasping, that generally means "grasping for a mislynch". Dunno why he'd want to grasp to prove a townread on me. His read on Refa isn't much but it's not really grasping, just a gutread.

tldr I think you are grasping ##Unvote, ##Vote: Grassbridger

[Eurykins]

Tired atm, so probably may have missed some of the posts/content while re-reading through the previous pages. (will read through it again at a later time)

Well, to start off: ##Unvote

I'm not sure how I feel about the Manix-Prims-BBM postings back and forth;

BBM: I don't fully trust him atm (this reminds me too much of the first game I played, where Prims was hunting BBM down 'til the end), but I don't feel like there's enough justification for a gut scummy read/feel from him. Not sure about his "Manix is probably town" comment- whether it was an actual means of telling other townies to look elsewhere for the scum (a legit townie gut feeling he got from Manix) or something tossed out in order to get townie brownie points.

Manix: Has been gunning after BBM since Page 1. Seems sorta townie, but still too early to tell.

Prims: Joining in on the BBM interest. As stated earlier, reminds me of my first game with those two. Not sure if it's the same case here, or if there's underlying scum intent somewhere (not specifically stating it/referring it to Prims, but in general with the situation).

I just thought "that doesn't really seem plausible at all". And re: thinking too much early: scum know from the get-go that they have to manufacture something, so I'd think they'd be more inclined to be graspy ED1 in general.

Something feels weird about this post, but I'm having trouble putting my finger on it. Not liking the vibes from it though.

##Vote: Grassbridger

[Refa]

Fair warning, these replies might be a bit out of order chronologically.

Refa going under the radar as a possible scumread (although I read him town the whole way, so w/e) and the fact that you are really are playing quite similarly to how you did in Snoop aside from trying to mislynch me to the nth degree

I'm not thinking you're scum just yet, but considering the Snoop vibes I'm getting from Refa, I'm keeping wary of you being scum since you suckered everyone then too with very similar play.

I don't like this post, because the reason you gave for finding BBM suspicious is that you're getting Snoop vibes (I'm assuming this is a gut read of sorts?) from me. That's...you're trying to get associative reads without a flip. Which is bad.

PEdit: Upon a reread, it seems that's not the only reason you're suspicious of BBM, but also because of similar play to Snoop (wherein he was scum). I don't know how I missed that the first time around. :\ Still don't like the associative reads part, but considering it's only part of your whole argument, I feel better about this post.

Why the hell would you legitimately bus on D1? I said that I don't think he's not dumb enough to do so, not that he is dumb if he does so.

OK, now I'm confused. Before you stated that you're suspicious of BBM because of vibes from me. Now you're stating that you don't think I'd bus him on D1, does that mean you think BBM is town?

And I feel like if you were scum, you'd be going after somebody else aside from Manix to score a quick mislynch and throw town off.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that BBM was going after Manix, considering he explicitly stated Manix to be one of his townreads very early on.

I don't know where it's standard and accepted strategy to not out townreads. I like to do it when my read is based on a specific post or action and not just general holistic townie play.

Honestly, I don't get what the problem with outing townreads is either. The argument against it is that it allows scum to more easily shoot the "towniest" players, but considering it helps PoE scum more easily later on, I don't see why that in and of itself is scummy.

I don't like the people who said "whoops can't be assed to read the thread but these sure are a lot of posts!" then jokevoted. Refa especially, do you think BBM is mafia or are you just leaving your vote there because?

At the time, yes, I thought BBM was scum. I don't consider outting an early town read on Manix to be scummy, but rather his reaction posts following that; he spent more time justifying a not particularly strong town read in lieu of scumhunting. While his content since then (specifically, around the time he started replying to Polydeuces) has improved, he's still bothering me the most atm.

Well, that's not entirely true. Polydeuces' recent posts have been rather infuriating. Not because they are incredibly scummy, but rather...I just don't understand what he's getting at. I really need some clarification from him before I can go anywhere with my read on him.

I don't agree with the logic in Grassbridger's latest post (surely scum having more knowledge earlier on would make their posts less graspy?), but I'm honestly not seeing the scum intent in it. And considering Polydeuces has been bothering me as well (albeit for me, it's because I can't get a read on him), I don't really have any issues with his vote.

@Prims

I would like to know why I stood above the other people who had similar first posts to mine.

[charlie_]

##Vote: Zell

You made me think you were a new person >_<

how dare you vote my scumbuddy

Disagree with outing townreads being scummy to be honest. BBM is kind of defensive but I'm not getting a real scumread from it. I don't really think that BBM's fishing for metatown reads on him because over half the game didn't even play in C9++ anyway and some of them (well, me at least) are pretty bad at using meta. Null on BBM right now.

Poly's posts early just kind of ignore what's going on early on, and then he asks Boron for reads when he hasn't really given any himself which I don't like. His "Refa is going under the radar" is also graspy as fuck considering we've hours into day 1, and he's not the only one posting like that. He also talks about how he's getting "Snoopvibes" from BBM/Refa which seems to be his excuse for everything after Prims brings it up and never explains it himself.

Grassbridger also suffers from chiming in without really saying anything syndrome, and his Poly vote seems pretty forced and a weird way to vote for him.

D1 bussing if it happens tends to be accidental over deliberate, when a scumbuddies wagon picks up hard and you can't get off it without incriminating yourself (see: half my scumgames).

##Vote: Polydeuces

[Zkirsche]

BBM is literally repeating his play from AM/PM and Snooping so I'm satisfied with this vote.

This. ##Vote: BBM

Disagree with outing townreads being scummy to be honest.

It's not just outing townreads, it's the way he outed them. Manix calling BBM scummy then BBM saying Manix is town immediately after looks weird, especially with such flimsy reasoning. It's buddying up to someone to try and make them think less of you. Normally people would be like "eww you suspect me that's dumb" not "eww you suspect me you're probably town".

I don't like this post, because the reason you gave for finding BBM suspicious is that you're getting Snoop vibes (I'm assuming this is a gut read of sorts?) from me. That's...you're trying to get associative reads without a flip. Which is bad.

How is that associative? He's saying that people are playing the same way as they did in Snooping and so he's wary of BBM as he's playing like he did then, and he was scum then. You have a Pedit where you say "I still don't like the associative reads part" but I'm not seeing any association whatsoever. He's saying both of you are playing like you did in Snooping and that he's wary of you for it.

then he asks Boron for reads when he hasn't really given any himself

"I'm not finding BBM scummy" and "I think Boron is scummy because she made an RVS vote when there was serious discussion going on" are reads. The latter reasoning was echo'd by Prims, although he was talking about Refa.

Nothing Poly or GB has done strikes me as particularly scummy. Being wrong =/= being graspy. My case on eclipse in One-shot was graspy, nothing here is like that.

[Grace]

D1 bussing if it happens tends to be accidental over deliberate, when a scumbuddies wagon picks up hard and you can't get off it without incriminating yourself (see: half my scumgames).

i'm going to direct you straight toward Theatre Mafia where me and Prims deliberately chose to get into a slapfight D1, which eventually led to my lynch D2 (due to D1 modkills) and Prims survived to endgame (w/ scorri).

also fakeclaim. a more recent topical example where the entire scumteam basically bussed each other all game (half deliberate, half unplanned (which makes it more believable))

it's not completely out of consideration, but sure it probably is less common to be deliberate