CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Refa]

Chainsaw defenses aren't telling unless one of them flips scum, though.

[Percivalé]

can you guys remind me what chainsaw means

also dormio are you still gonna iso people because i don't remember what your reads are

[Bluedoom]

I get what you're saying but gut tells me i'm right, refa.

Esp if you look at their interactions.

[Dormio]

And I never said that I thought Dormio was townie? Just that the cases on him were wrong.

I'm pretty sure it's been said by someone else, but I don't really like this statement. (#201)

Just something I want to get out there for now or whatever.

[Dormio]

can you guys remind me what chainsaw means

also dormio are you still gonna iso people because i don't remember what your reads are

IIRC it's defending someone by attacking the people who are attacking that someone.

Eventually hopefully I keep getting lost in the posts and trying to figure out who everyone is.

[Sunwoo]

To clarify, you've stated that you do not find his actions scummy. This doesn't actually indicate any sort of read on him.

I thought that the implication was clear that if I didn't find his actions scummy and I didn't have any complaints about him then I wasn't scum reading him. To be clear, I'm leaning town on Dormio.

My point is you've only mentioned his early vote on Dormio and nothing else. It's perfectly fine if you can't get any reads out of that, but I'd like to know what your thoughts are on his later content (which you haven't commented on at all, unless I missed something).

I hadn't mentioned Shin's vote on Quote earlier this phase because I actually forgot about it in the midst of responding to other stuff, whoops.

Being away for a not significant portion of D1 isn't actually a scum tell...Fair enough regarding Paper's ISO though. I was townreading the dude, but I'll look into him again I guess.

Okay, fair enough on that the first part of your sentence, and I agree that being away isn't a scum tell, but I don't always realize when people are legitimately away. Also, what I see as a scum tell is dodging content posts while being around to post non-contributory stuff.

OK, the blame for missing your BBM read is all on me. Still, it sounded less like he was holding something over Dormio because of meta and more because he was annoyed at people dismissing Dormio because of that (you could argue that BBM does this as scum, which is why I'm a bit iffy on him overall despite his content generally being pretty good).

I suppose I interpreted his statement differently than you did. I'm still not wholly comfortable with his content, something just feels off.

##Unvote

I'm feeling a bit better about Refa now.

##Vote: Junk

Junk's ISO consists of a lot of questions, not enough follow-up on those questions or explanation of his thoughts. His most current thoughts seem to be a town read on kirsche and agreement with Shin cases, but his vote still on Mancer and no effort to either move his vote to Shin or say why he feels Mancer is worth voting over. The problem with Junk asking a lot of questions is that he doesn't seem to be asking them with the intent of clarifying his reads, but for the sake of asking them and he's not doing anything with the answers he gets.

Randa suspicion still stands and I want a response from him when he gets back. Paper and BBM have not done anything for me to rethink my read, and I need to ISO Mancer when I'm more awake.

[MancerNecro]

The thing is, his read on Paperblade is what, based off meta? I really feel like he could really have found a stronger read than Paperblade right about now. Bluedoom's been around and posting while Paperblade is not active right now so what is the point of keeping his vote on Paperblade. Also, I believe that he could actually find much stronger cases than Paperblade, really. tbh, in that post I quoted, the first half of his case against me already feels stronger than his case against Paperblade so I don't understand why he adds that whole second half of that post to counterargue against his initial read.

[MancerNecro]

Too many players in this game that all the impressions I get of each individual player is so fleeting.....

[MancerNecro]

Just look at this:

##Vote: Paperblade

Follow me, everyone! Your prince will lead you to victory!

His Dormio vote really feels like a filler vote. #Meta but I really don't think Town!Paperblade is the type to vote Dormio like he did.

versus this (the first half of his paragraph on me):

I have a scumread on Mancer and this is because of his indecisiveness and now he's struggling with all town-null reads. I know he's trying to change his posting style to a less spammy one, but that doesn't mean his scumhunting ability should be deterred! Like in Qprogue Mancer was capable of getting definite, strong scumreads like the one on me( D1 anyway ;-;). Just think his waffling and playing devil's advocate to himself during the kirsche/Dormio debacle just really looks scummy now when I see the rest of his reads and ISO.

I feel that the latter case is much stronger than the former case.

[MancerNecro]

Also, this feels like a stronger case than his Paperblade one too:

@eclipse: BBM's response implied that he would've voted Via for their Paper read if it was not for liking some of their posts. There's no mention of Randa, who literally sheeped my vote on Paperblade, and I'm not sure what he thinks of the others who scumread/got scummy vibes from him. However his vote on me is hypocritical since me ' nitpicking on Dormio wagon' can be compared to him 'nitpicking on the Paper wagon/scumreaders.' I think that's a good enough reason to scumread him :| .

So why is he still sticking to his supposed "strong read on Paperblade"?

[Bluedoom]

P sure my case on pb isn't just the dormio vote anymore but his other content which is not satisfactory which is why i didn't even move my vote in the first place

[MancerNecro]

Also, all this waffling:

Dormio's kirsche vote was dumb and full of paranoia but the wagon on him is just as dumb(I guess BBM can be excused for using meta though I know nothing of it and reading the linked thread requires effort). Tryhard reasoning is not really what I expect scum to do during RVS and trying to grasp out of something in RVS is really hard as mafia IMO. I don't think Townblade would vote Dormio for his dumb vote.

"Dormio's vote was dumb but I don't think scum would do that."

And yes I DO think there is/was scum on the dormio wagon because it was fast and based off of dumb reasoning where people like to instantly think of dumb play as scum play. The people least likely to be scum from this wagon are Mitsuki and Shin, since they made an RVS vote/ have a confusing playstyle that makes them look scum as town and are a butt to read, respectively.

I think Boron's points on Refa are valid, but I'm not as confident meta-reading him and I'd like to read more of his content n the future before trying to make an informed read on him.

I get where the Randa/Mancer scumreads are coming from, but the thing is, I think Randa's play as town is not decisive and spammy as well. Mancer could go either way, because when I townread him as an observer in Hard NOCs I was wrong and I remember him waffling over his opinions in Hard NOCs before he eventually got lynched D1. So this could be a repeat of scum! Mancer. Actually, I think I'm more comfortable lynching Mancer than Randa, should I be given that choice at deadline.

Why did you even bring up the fact that you think that there are scum on the Dormio wagon if you are not going to pursue it. You went to point out players who were not so likely to be scum on the wagon when your initial point was that there were scum on the wagon? What? I'm not following this.

"I agree with Boron's point on Refa but I'm not confident in reading Refa as scum"

"I get where the reads on Randa/Mancer are coming from but both of their behaviours could go either way."

I don't know about Shin. I get why people are casing him for ' accusing Dormio of self-meta when he had to use it to defend himself' but I think that's part of Town!Shin's play. Call it gut but I don't think scum would try to find some original(albeit bad) reasoning to hop on to a wagon forming during RVS. I haven't read his Via case though, so I'll need to do that.

"I get the cases on Shin but I think that what people are casing Shin for is Town!Shin behaviour." Then why do you mention you get the cases on him? You don't really find Shin scummy for the mentioned cases on him so idk...

Bluedoom has brought up and posted a lot of things which I deem redundant. So far, his only scum hunting attempts are cases on BBM and me that he ignores or plays down to keep his vote on Paperblade. I'm confident that I've found scum now.

[MancerNecro]

P sure my case on pb isn't just the dormio vote anymore but his other content which is not satisfactory which is why i didn't even move my vote in the first place

I've ISOed you and found nothing else about your case on Paperblade. In fact, I shall reread all your posts again right now just to be sure.

[MancerNecro]

Oh crap, why am I spamming so much now?

Am I really such a spammer that my game is only really up when I spam the thread?

[MancerNecro]

Paper's recent content is still not impressive and my vote is staying where it is.

I don't see any other mentions of Paperblade other than this. Please tell me how Paperblade's content is not impressive.

[Dormio]

You know what, screw it. It's not as if I wanted to go to sleep or anything.

Also, who the hell is Bizz?

BBM: Yeah, I think his actions are understandable and don't feel particularly strongly about them.

However his content is getting a bit outdated and I want to see content that's more relevant to current events.

Probably would not lynch.

Bluedoom: I don't really get the case on this guy.

Probably would not lynch.

Da Bear: Winnie the who?

Lurker lynch?

Dormio: This is me.

eclipse: I think that eclipse is okay enough or something.

Probably would not lynch.

Euklyd: Only real post is #253 and tells us literally nothing.

Like the post basically says that he thinks a few people might be town and gives a wishy-washy non-opinion on Shin. Of course, he claims to be busy so I'll just wait for more content I suppose.

Would lynch unless content improves in the near future.

Junk: I'm not really getting a strong impression from him. He needs to post more.

Don't really care either way whether or not he gets lynched.

kirsche: I like this guy, even though Freddy is shit.

Would not lynch.

MancerNecro: Even though I don't really agree with some of his thoughts, I think he's probably town.

Would not lynch.

Mitsuki: Eh. I don't really feel to strongly either way about her two posts.

I would really like to see more content from her.

Don't really care either way whether or not she gets lynched.

Paperblade: Not a big fan of his posts so far. It kind of feels like he was spreading himself a bit thin when he was posting and just kind of covered his bases or something without really looking at things.

He needs to post again sometime. Also, unrelated, but that avatar scares me.

Would be okay with lynching.

Polydeuces: I believe in the miracle. Maybe there will be a post from him.

Lurker lynch?

Quote: I think that this guy is okay.

Would not lynch.

Randa: I know I said I'd read him but the posts give me a headache.

Don't really care either way whether or not he gets lynched.

Refa: I do not like his posts. Things like this: (#83)

Dormio wagon is totally legit. Not just because everyone is voting for the same person as me (which never happens when I'm town, and never early on as any alignment), but because all of the cases have their own interpretations and reasoning. The main issue against Dormio is his kirsche case, for various reasons; Mancer had some issues with his side comments as well FWIW.

Make me pretty wary. Because, like, you know it kind of sounds like bullshit.

At this point, outside of himself, the people voting for me were BBM (#68), Paperblade (#73), and Shin (#75).

And I don't know about you but these three cases read pretty similarly to me.

I dunno, something about it just puts me off.

The way he went about pushing me, and later Shin, makes me feel as though he's more looking for a vote to park on or something for the day.

But then he's also contributing with regards to others and I haven't really read that part too deeply but it looked okay when I was skimming through it. Will need to read more once I get some sleep.

Probably would not lynch.

Reinfleche: Not particularly impressed with his posts, which he needs to make more of.

Would be okay with his lynch.

SB: He's okay I guess.

Probably would not lynch.

Shin: Well I've gone over why I didn't like Shin's original vote on me and his more recent posts aren't really changing my opinion of him so whatever I guess?

Like I said in my prior post, I don't really get why Junk or other lurkers over some of the other reads he had. Whatever.

Would lynch.

Shinori: Apparently a person that is in this game.

Lurker lynch?

Sunwoo: I like this guy too.

Would not lynch.

#HBC Larsa: #whoisthis

Lurker lynch?

[Zkirsche]

Reads? I've not seen a lot of reads from you so far.

Seriously? Go read his ISO again.

Y'know what I call it? "Exactly what I expect to see when someone is trying to defend a townread". In other words, I don't see that as a scumread

Is BBM even townreading Paper though? He never makes that clear, he just attacks those who're suspecting him.

even if he finally has something original to his name (a Marth read~!).

You might find #230 interesting :S agreeing with the Mancer train now.

Your point on Randa was good and my original liking of his thought process is outdated, it's no good catching up with the game then abandoning it again!

@#237: I feel like people should just stop trying to meta game Shin as I've seen people go "this is Shin's town meta" and "this is Shin's scum meta". I also don't really get the Marth scumreads.

Everytime Junko posts he says something agreeable so I don't want to lynch here.

he never mentions why the wagon is dumb, just that scum is unlikely to have tryhard reasoning

Also Marthipan never explains why the Dormio vote is scummy on Paperblade's part

Yes he did. In respective order:

1) The justification is poor, because of the game that was brought up, but he did justify it.

2) Why is everyone missing the "This is a filler vote" part of Marth's post? Is it just too inconvenient for your case to consider?

Also why is Dormio's initial Shin case good? Like it makes sense for a townie who hasn't played with Shin before, but I'm confused as to why you considered it sheepworthy at the time.

I agree that his Dormio vote is highly questionable and an easy way to feign contribution. You ask "would scum really hop onto a wagon that early" and dismiss it, but in my experience scum would jump onto a wagon whenever they could, even if they have to swap later, "leading the scumhunting charge" is something scum wants to look like doing so that people will think of them like so:

Dormio wagon is totally legit. Not just because everyone is voting for the same person as me (which never happens when I'm town, and never early on as any alignment), but because all of the cases have their own interpretations and reasoning.

If the alternative is not having a case to their name, scum is going to make a case, and I'm not going to overlook scummy play because it's Shin.

Refa's Boron case is pretty good, and I like the thought process even if I disagree with some of his Marth and Dormio/Shin points. If he wants some points on BBM then he should read my/Quote's/Marth's ISOs.

Boron's #262 is also good grrrrrrr let me get a read on you! Her explanation for why she can't get a read on Shin is pretty townie, not willing to appease until the end is good.

Somehow, Boron reads as incredibly cautious, like super cautious. Understandably, she's got a lot of work going on right now, so that might be it. Recalling British Mafia, she was really pushing town forward, but it's not like she's currently trying to hide. I'm kinda null for now.

"Man Boron is X but X doesn't matter because of Y so she's null" Brilliant contribution there Shin.

It's essentially the same case that the entire herd have been sheeping.

Sheeping isn't scummy though. I agree she's lurking though.

Point on Mancer is agreeable though it isn't hard to make them.

Still disagree with his BBM point, mostly because I don't think that's what BBM is doing at all? What part of his Dormio or Marth cases are just "I agree with X"? Surely the only one he's done that to is you? This isn't really what testing the waters means.

Junko vote is what. I may need to reread but I cannot see where it came from. You "agreeing with stuff" looks really bad, it gives the impression that you're even following the game.

This is apparently the most scummy thing in the game and it isn't even scummy or really true! His vote came from the points he made 2 hours beforehand after he realised he forgot to make a vote. He's been asking questions, trying to analyse play and coming up with reads. He doesn't have tonnes of content but the stuff he has is actually pretty telling at what his priority is this game: scumhunting. Can't see the cases on Junko at all.

This particularly annoys me because this is the most obviously townie I've seen him play. Also:

Shin, why are you voting Junk and why is he your top scum read. From the reads you've posted, I feel that your vote really should be on Bluedoom, Mitsuki or me. In fact, you barely even mentioned Junk at all so eh...

This is the first good Mancer post of the game. Shame he still doesn't have an opinion on Shin though.

I was going to move on but Shin's vote is so awful that I can't. What is the vote even accomplishing? Will it make Junko follow the game more? Elaborate on the reads that he's already elaborated on? It's a useless vote that does nothing to further the gamestate or commit you to any of the larger wagons.

BBM and Boron have at least put effort into reading the game.

Effort doesn't make you townie though, and the opposite is true too. Going "oh I'm trying to make him post more" is just easy.

Boron's vote is better but irritating, for someone who was pushing on people for having too much noise, you've chosen the person with the least noise of them all. Agree that Junko should probably follow up on his questions more, but asking questions is a good base for scumhunting.

Why did you even bring up the fact that you think that there are scum on the Dormio wagon if you are not going to pursue it.

Except he did pursue it by voting someone on the wagon?

Probably scum: Shin > BBM = Mancer >> Randa

Why can't I read you: Refa, SB, Boron

Get in here scrubs: Shinori, Euklyd, Poly, Larsa, da bear

townie: eclipse, Junko, Refa, Marth, reinfleche

Almost surely town: Quote

100% town: me.

[Zkirsche]

Quote tags these days are shit, can we downgrade again?

[Bluedoom]

There was a spoiler in that same post that i dedicated to elaborating my read on him which you obvsly didn't read.

I've only not said anything about his reads on you and shin bcuz i'd be just repeating what boron said: its surface level material and he only passes you up bcuz he 'can't read you' even though he 'noticed something odd about you' which looks like he made content for the sake of it.

[Grace]

1.4 Votals - Did something actually change Edition

Shin (4): Dormio, kirsche, Mitsuki, Refa

Randa (3): Reinfleche, dirge of swans, Paperblade

MancerNecro (3): eclipse, Junk, Quote

Paperblade (2): Bluedoom, Randa

Bluedoom (2): BBM, MancerNecro

Junk (2): Shin, Sunwoo

Sunwoo (1): SB.

Not Voting (5): Da Bear, Polydeuces, Shinori, #HBC Larsa, Euklyd

There are 41 hours left in the phase. With 21 alive, it takes 7 to deadline lynch.

@kirsche: there's a switch (a literal switch) in the reply box's top left corner that turns the post editor into plaintext

Edited November 15, 2014 by Curly Brace

[charlie_]

How is Refa both null and town kirsche?

Reading up in depth now.

[Randa]

So skimming the thread, ie control+f my name! I saw this. Now I gotta ask, mancer do you even bother reading my posts? I clearly stated that I would not be online, meaning I can't follow the game not can I post nor be involved in anyway. Why are their complaints about my activity when I said I would not be online.

Uhh, you do realize that Bluedoom did not ever commit to his scum read on me and he went off to say that I don't feel like scum in his other post. I'll actually go and find the post and quote it out too, actually.

Also, compare Randa's play to School of Hard NOCs and Qprogue please. I feel like he is not doing as much as he was in those games and that feels scummy to me. Granted, I don't know how Randa normally plays but that does not change the fact that he does not have a lot of reads in this game and hasn't been actually scum hunting hard.

Okay so I gotta give a presentation now, so I won't be able to post till after class. Then I won't be online for like 6-10 hour as because for some reason we scheduled a Friday night game.

i will not be posting anything tonight for an assortment of irl things. so it'll probably be like 16 hours before i can next post. sorry.

Anyways I'm going to go get food, then actually read the thread, then post.

[Zkirsche]

How is Refa both null and town kirsche?

Because I couldn't decide if he was townie or not, decided he was after a couple mins of internal debate but then forgot to remove him from the null section. Couldn't make up my mind with you or Boron.

Put Dormio and Paperblade in the null section as well. Neither have made a very big impression with me: Dormio's list post was ok but his recent posts before that were meh, and nothing PB has done is either highly objectionable nor highly productive.

I also forgot Mitsuki who should be in the "get in here you scrubs" section (though not before she feels better, her content is meh but I'm not sure how much of that is due to not thinking straight). I think that's everyone?

@Manix that's not what I meant.

[charlie_]

Boron's response still reads fine to me since her opinions seem more well-reasoned now and it comes across as genuine, so I'm less interested in lynching here now.

Other slots I'm now less interested in are Mancer and Shin; I don't think Mancer would say "why aren't you voting me" when coming under fire as scum when he went down really early last game too. As for Shin, I remember in Qprogue he claimed to be reaction testing Refa and came under heavy fire for it (from me iirc ;_;) so I don't think he'd try that here either. I also seem to remember scum!Shin being more low key than he is when he's town, and he's managing to attract a lot of attention this game, so there's that.

Marth, scum!Paper is MORE focused on producing "good" content than he is as town, just compare Tyne-Wear to CY'OR for example, in Tyne-Wear he had basically no fluff in his posts. And yes, there will be difference but you were basically going after him for having a weak D1 in general, and iirc scum!Paper AVOIDED wagoning people like Randa in Tyne-Wear because he would get flak for it, so if you're playing the meta card to call him scum, why is he doing that here?

And the rest of your #216 doesn't look good either, there's the waffling stuff Mancer mentioned, and also the fact that you assume there's scum on the Dormio wagon despite explaining why it existed, but then don't look for actual scum on it. And the reasons for Mitsuki and Shin being better than the others are also dumb since Mitsuki can be scum independently of an RVS vote, and you're basically saying Shin is hard to read so he's not scum? How does that make sense? Rein needs to explain why there's probably a scum there too.

So. . .what DO you think of Dormio, if you don't agree with the cases against him?

At the time I just had him as a nullread with a bunch of bad cases on him, but it's more of a townlean right now due to a combination of gut and continued effort levels when a lot of the game began to give him a free pass.

Let me try to explain this better. Both Eclipse and Shin suspected Dormio on using self-meta. The thing is, they are deliberately choosing to ignore that the reason why Dormio is bringing up meta is that meta is being brought up against him.
I think this comes from scum using something that's usually seen as scummy (using self-meta) as a scumtell when it makes sense when you take context into account.

Yes, but eclipse only gave it a passing mention, and didn't even vote Dormio based off of it. So it seems like you're making it out to be worse than it actually is.

##Vote: Marth

[Junk]

It certainly was an interesting ED1, now I can start having some real fun!

Somehow, Boron reads as incredibly cautious, like super cautious. Understandably, she's got a lot of work going on right now, so that might be it. Recalling British Mafia, she was really pushing town forward, but it's not like she's currently trying to hide. I'm kinda null for now.

Votes on me aren't an issue but Mitsuki's one on me feels really easy. It's essentially the same case that the entire herd have been sheeping. Voicedwhat I meant about the meta comment quite some while ago, but that seems to be something people tend to ignore. Essentially, both her top reads are based on the meta comment. I feel like she's hanging around in the background.

Mancer's vote on SB is reactionary and very self-conscious. The logic that Dormio drew attention in order to gain town-cred is a bit of a stretch. I'd be willing to buy the logic that Dormio made a weak case, but not that he engineered one to cause a riot and make himself look good. SB does raise a valid point about Mancer's agreeability with anything Dormio related. His #219 seems like a smooth way to change his stance on me without doing anything.

Dormio's #202 is a filler post, I don't really see what it achieves other than "I'm still voting Shin".

SB, my stance on BBM is whilst he tends to be agreeing and disagreeing with stuff on the surface. Like BBM's catchphrase with this game is "I can agree with X case". He's kinda in the same boat as Boron. They're there, they're reading but they seem to be testing the waters rather than diving in. It's still fairly early so it's a null sign, but if it were to continue in to D2 or something, that's when I'd take issue.

Junko vote is what. I may need to reread but I cannot see where it came from. You "agreeing with stuff" looks really bad, it gives the impression that you're even following the game.

Marth, are you scumreading BBB,? You said you can understand where Mancer/Randa are coming from but it doesn't sound like you're particularly reading either of them as scum.

Via's reaction is exactly what I wanted, more elaboration on stuff. At the time of my vote, I felt very little conviction of things and the Paperthing confused me to no end.

A note to all, I am generally not around in the US's evenings/night times. I live in a magical world where our cars are mirrored and we always put a u between an o and an r.

##Unvote

##Vote: Junko

Very uncommitted. I'm not sure if it's possible to lurk on D1, but I've barely noticed Junko other than where he literally posts to show he exists.

Kinda scummy: Junko > Mitsuki > Mancer

Kinda eh: Marth > Boron = BBM

Everyone else: Them

Handsome tier: Shin

What cannot you not understand about my mancer vote? While admittedly my first post about you consisted of "I agree with the Shin cases" I feel like you didn't read this post where I explain what I agreed with about your case. Also your case basically feel likes Junko's lurking rather than actually doing anything scummy?

okay gtg brb I have to go for a bit but I'll post more in a few minutes