Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia [Game Over]

[eclipse]

Shinori, I'll get to your post tomorrow. Night-night everyone~!

[Shinori]

Don't really like Shinori's last post. His SB vote kind of sucks and is based off SB's first post in the game and ignores everything else SB has posted- ironic because he accuses SB of ignoring other players even though the only person SB doesn't really talk about there who'd posted a lot was Prims. The "random rolespec" is half-joke and half the basis of a townread on me so it's not really random at all. He also says one of GP's posts was scummy enough that he would have voted there but then doesn't even have her in his lynch priority? Why? Also nothing about Refa other than a mention while speaking about SB, but Refa still

makes it in that list. Really it looks like he should be voting FFM but he's voting for SB for dumb reasons.

I actually commented on this a bit. The whole he didn't mention Prims thing was weird to me. Also at the point in time that I posted I thought there had been more activity from other players which is why I felt better about the SB vote. I felt like he had ignored more people than he actually had. That's what I get for trying to rush a read and a post out. WRT the underlined, I would have voted him because I didn't like it and it felt bad to me, but over time I felt better about him and I am currently reading him as more likely to be town. Partially because of gut but meh.

Man, I forgot what it was like waking up to like 5 pages overnight, thanks Manix. I think we should play with NOC TOWN LEADER as soon as we get a clear too.

SUPERHATED is probably our Doctor and it's just making it much easier for us to lynch it, so BBM is probably town. So is Manix for his claim and general playstyle.

I'm not sure that confident that GP is scum, honestly. A lot of her pushes seem based on kinda sketchy logic, but it that isn't really much of a tell for her and I'm not so sure she'd be this loud while fighting a losing battle as scum, rather than backing off a bit or asking buddies for help with what to say.

Don't really like Refa's posts, they amount to a couple of questions after quotes and the only thing he really pursues in that post is from RVS which is kinda eh too, and his jokevote on me almost feels like he's trying to hide his lack of opinions.

##Vote: Refa

My reads all feel really weak considering the amount of words that happened tbh.

I quoted this post when I voted him because I felt it was bad. Like I stated above I felt like he had ignored more people than he actually had, so that was my bad. But also WRT other reasonings for voting him the posts down below and other posts similiar to it made me honestly feel like he wasn't really doing that much.

When a person is getting wagoned for reasons I think are null, I'm going to yell about it.

If I have reason to think someone is town, I clear them super quickly. And I didn't know you were my mason buddy in healer, so how is that similar?

Why would Prims and Manix arrange to bus eachother ED1 with no suspicion on either of them?

My passive tone comes from the fact I feel like most of the people who've been posting are town (you, BBM, eclipse) or null (Prims, GP) so I don't have any reason to be more aggressive at this point.

So yeah. That was kind of my logic behind the SB vote, it wasn't the best because most of it was because I misinterpreted what I actually saw.

@Bladescape: I feel better about Refa because I'm liking a few more of his recent posts. Also my top two scumreads are matching up with his scum reads which gives him brownie points in my eyes.

[bladescape]

@Eclipse

Allocative reads help me define my opinions. At this stage they are weak at best, but it's better to start analysing early than just to go 'no one's dead you can't read much at all!', it's true that one or two flips could completely change how I read but that's mafia. *Rambles in explanation*

And no, it's not that you defend people, because quite frankly there's been a ton of defending going on, it's who you defend, why, and what else the rest of your post makes me think. And even then, these are leans at best. I should put a disclaimer. Day one reads not to be assumed to be anything concrete yet.

And understandable, as I said earlier I don't know meta well so I could easily take something that is a null read for that particular person as a scum read. I'm just trying as best I can with the knowledge I have. In time I'll learn the general meta of various people and the site in general. Then I'll exploit it.

[bladescape]

Mmm. I like Shinori's response actually.

##Vote: Euklyd

Welcome to more discussion and not set on my Euk vote, merely my largest suspicion right now.

(Is FoS used on this forum? I was holding back on using it in my last post but I forgot to ask.)

[bladescape]

Sidenote:

Ritz fights the MCs multiple times during the course of the game, hence the hated tag. Marche, meanwhile, is basically the MC so yeah. Also he was proven right in the end anyhow.

Just realised I didn't clarify this. I meant verbal arguments since the maps she appears in usually she's helping the MC but refusing to actually join up with him because Marche is trying to take away the world she has already fallen in love with.

[Eurykins]

Ohdearlordsomuchcontentgodhelpme. (Also, as a side note, tomorrow I'm taking a bus ride out to see the Shino-face [2-day ride, lol], so my activity will be lower as a result.)

Pascal/FFM

- To me, this post/notion sounds really off. Powerful scum role or not, scum already innately are vastly lower in numbers than town are; I find it hard to believe that one would be Super Hated to make it that much easier to pin down.

- Sounds more like an excuse to not play/contribute more to the game.

- Feels pretty graspy/wild conclusions drawn to me. (So pot meet kettle on your notion of Refa case(s)?)

- Wrt this post:

~ ...wut? You're basing the "benefit of the doubt" on basically nothing, aside from the fact that he has a few votes on him? You've seemed pretty eager to peg down Refa as scum before; why the change of heart this game?

~ Your GP notion sounds kinda bad to me. "She tends to look scummy as town, so there's no issue here," is what I'm gathering from your comment.

- Jump from here to there in a matter of a few minutes. Also, what is the comment, "I'd like to see his next few posts before I declare him to be scum." even supposed to mean/imply? You sound like you're stalling/waffling out and avoiding committing a read on him, which is scummy in itself.

- Wrt this post:

~ "GP I've covered and BBM/Euk/Clipsey haven't done anything overtly scummy that requires mention." Something about this statement bothers me a lot.

~ The reads as a whole feel really shallow and otherwise don't hold a great deal of commitment/effort into them at all.

Refa

- This post sounds bad to me for 2 reasons:

1. His response to SB felt bad to me. "Having 1 scumread" doesn't mean he necessarily has lack of opinions (especially when he expresses a few town reads/what I see to be a null take on GP).

2. His response wrt BBM/Manix feels weird, because it's not uncommon to find Hated/Beloved roles/claims to be seen in a townie light.

- Wrt this post:

1. First comment about why he didn't mention reads on Manix/Prims = weak excuse at best. This post was made on page 9 - surely there was something that would warrant some sort of read to be had/said on them (without the need of someone prompting you for it)?

2. I don't see the issue with SB's posts. "It also doesn't mean that we should ignore it and shoot ourselves in the foot should we be wrong." The fact that he says that the suspicion/cases could be wrong (thus resulting in town shooting themselves in the foot) doesn't negate the fact that he can still have a null read on this same person? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the logic/statement, but I personally have no issues with what was said.

3. Let's be real- if you didn't post at all, we'd just nail you for lurking scum. You'd get shit either way, Refa.

- You seem oddly... salty/prickly with your mayor comment.

- This post actually feels... townish?

- WHY YOU NO STICK THE ISO'S IN ONE POST? D:

~ The tone behind the FFM/Pascal ISO seems uncertain. Even the things that seem out of place you seem to hesitate on calling out on (as though to double-guess things/try and pan it in a more positive light?), which I find a bit weird.

~ SB ISO feels like a forced backpedal, as to still keep him as a scumread but distance yourself from a case on him as much.

~ GP ISO sounds bad, because it seems like another means of justifying bad/scummy gameplay by saying, "Oh, but X has done this before as town, so letting it fly under the radar here.".

~ (Prims ISO) [Didn't get through this yet]

~ (Euklyd ISO) [same as above]

SB

- Aside from the town leader notion (wasn't sure if you were serious about that or not), not much issue with this post.

- Saying that you're 20% cooler than someone who's almost always been scum = Not much better, imo.

- Not sure if a Null read = You YELL in their defense.

- Though I find the FFM vote here okay, I find myself more wondering how/to what extent Pascal pushed ahead of Refa in terms of voting priority (by the time this post was made).

Shinori

- I find this post weird in a few ways:

1. You seem to be going off about "Shouldn't do this, shouldn't do that," and the whining aspect of the post is real. ;/

2. You have a LOT Of obscure/vague reads: "Like I hated this post and would have voted if I was here at the point int ime.", "This post is just awful. I dislke this. Blah." What is it about said posts that you don't like? Elaborate, please.

Green Poet

- Feels graspy and semi-useless role spec, imo.

- Few issues with this post:

1. Townies have done plenty of things for what appears to be little to no reasons before. Just because it's pointless for a townie to do so doesn't imply/mean that it then has to have scum intent behind it instead. (IE. Pascal's Almost OC VT claim ED1.)

2. 2 PMs per day- and it was ED1. I don't see why someone couldn't use it as a joke, given the circumstances at hand.

-------- (And super cut 'cause for some reason, I honestly cannot focus and I need to continue this tomorrow if/when I have time. Argh.) ----

[Prims]

Might start going 1-major-post-per-day since my sleep schedule sucks and catching up on Hunter x Hunter 2011 is more interesting than mafiers. Just a heads up cuz there was a previous game where I was town and people were going on about me lurking when I just wasn't around.

Euk read slowly worsening. Shinori is right about the lack of non-Refa content from him but I don't think his reasons for staying on Refa are impressive either. He asks Refa questions but all his explicitly stated reasons are worded indecisively and I think he's arguing with Refa instead of pushing Refa as scum and telling us why. Also his first post was nothing. Would lynch over Refa himself right now, actually.

I forgot Poly was playing entirely.

[BBM]

Thinking about it a bit I'm inclined to agree with Prims that Terra's actions were just frustrated town, but yeah it's lame.

FFM vote is still good; he took the time to post a one-liner asking Eclipse a question but couldn't be bothered to update any of his reads in any way.

Euklyd is also still scummy, probably more than Shinori now. 90% of his Refa read is still just responding to badlogic rather than actually finding scummy stuff. To me Euklyd's case is basically that Refa's tone is passive-aggressive and that Refa is picking at SB for lame reasons.

Also shit I can't believe I forgot about Doned. If anyone is Doned they should totally contact me unless that's GP, in which case just confirm in thread (don't waste a message).

[Grace]

so i've been out, and for some reason i feel really shitty and demotivated. not going to be looking at the thread until morning (~12 hours) unless i feel a lot better before i sleep

[Da Bear]

Shit I fell asleep while ISO'ing and lost the post to my comp running out of battery overnight.

I have to get going pretty soon so more reasons later but rn I find Shinori the scummiest for basically the same reasons as Blade (yeah I know this is lame).

##Vote: Shinori

[Elieson]

Guess what. Another situation calling for a sub has arisen. Any takers?

[Grace]

somehow, someway, i managed to kick myself into gear. let's do something (not much though).

I feel better about Refa because I'm liking a few more of his recent posts.

explain why?

Also my top two scumreads are matching up with his scum reads which gives him brownie points in my eyes.

this seems like a very superficial reason to think refa is less scummy. i don't like this too much at all.

also anyone else concerned that refa hasn't shown for like, almost 24 hours now? idk if he's been around (i think so) but even then, disappearing once the pressure starts relieving a bit is concerning

[FrostyFireMage]

Now that's my headache's gone and I'm feeling more motivated, I'm gonna try doing something meaningful and actually analyse things.

Terrador/bladescape: He seemed overly volatile about people criticizing his reads and threatened to vote himself (surprised you could do that). Pretty bad scum play if he was mafia, with the whole, y'know, touchiness, and I can't see someone like Terrador acting like that if he were scum. Plus his replacement seems like a good asset for town: his posts are comprehensive and he's been contributing well. Leaning Town.

Refa: My reluctance to vote him was because of the numerous votes already on him, and I wanted to avoid looking like someone sheeping, as I got heat for appearing to do so in Almost OC. Regardless, I don't know what to think about his not very calm early responses. Maybe he was agitated over everyone claiming he was scum and was worried he would get lynched in his first town play in ages? He's played as scum many times before (and I think he enjoys it) and I'm sure he knows not to act that way. Apart from that, he does seem to commit quite a few scumtells in his posts (lack of commitment, etc, etc). Leaning Scum.

Poly: Nothing of substance (although not like I'm that much different dohoho). Although I doubt he would be as inactive as scum. Null.

SB: His first post of relative substance is a vote on Refa because of a lack of content despite admitting he has no strong reads either. He then acts unsure saying he thinks mostly everyone seems town (like I have room to criticize, lol) then votes and builds a case around me, maybe seeing me as an easy lynch target. Generally, his posts seem pretty weak and generic apart from his Terrador criticisms which seem nitpicky more than anything. Leaning Scum.

Kirche: Very few posts apart from a post on Refa which seems presumptuous (demotivated scum are ragey?) and skims over everyone else (which feels a little hypocritical since one of her points was that Refa had no scumreads despite pretty much having only one herself. Null/Leaning Scum.

Me: 100% Natural Scum Town

Eury: Few posts, except for a content-filled one...which only really covered the most suspicious players, picking apart everything they've said and then withheld a vote. Maybe to test the waters before voting? Should wait until she finishes. Null.

Shinori: Starts off with a few posts quoting posts he dislikes without elaborating much at all, then seemingly acts defensive when GP votes him? Later he skims over a few players and focuses on Euk, with his opinion of Refa improving because...similar reads? Basically non-commital and vague (again, like I have any right to say that). Strongest scumread right now. Scum.

Eclipse: One of the most active members and she seems to be pretty proactive. Also I thought the Prims/Manix exchange was bussing because they had the most interaction early on and that stood out the most to me. And it felt like most people were hoping on the Refa wagon because of his infamy as scum, not because of his posts. Again, wasn't feeling it yesterday. Leaning Town.

GP: Nothing she says seems out of the ordinary - well, for her, anyway. Nothing really jumps out at me. Null/Leaning Town.

bearclaw: I got nothing. Has like two posts. Null.

BBM: His hated role seems pretty towny, as others have said. Don't want to vote him and accidentally cause him to get lynched. Otherwise don't have much of a read on him. Leaning Town.

Euk: Seems proactive although seems to be spending a little too much time looking into Refa and backtracks a few times. Null.

Prims: Starts off with a few joke-posts then actually makes some good extensive posts without focusing on just one player. Leaning Town.

Manix: Goes along with Prims' joking (which looked like busing to me lolol *facepalm*) and half-claims his role. Whether he really is town or scum only revealing the most scummy part of his role I'm not sure about. Pursues GP and then puts his vote on me. Mostly reasonable. Null/Leaning Town.

Call me "wishy-washy" or whatever but now that I've seen anything Shinori gets my vote.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

[FrostyFireMage]

Now that's my headache's gone and I'm feeling more motivated, I'm gonna try doing something meaningful and actually analyse things.

Terrador/bladescape: He seemed overly volatile about people criticizing his reads and threatened to vote himself (surprised you could do that). Pretty bad scum play if he was mafia, with the whole, y'know, touchiness, and I can't see someone like Terrador acting like that if he were scum. Plus his replacement seems like a good asset for town: his posts are comprehensive and he's been contributing well. Leaning Town.

Refa: My reluctance to vote him was because of the numerous votes already on him, and I wanted to avoid looking like someone sheeping, as I got heat for appearing to do so in Almost OC. Regardless, I don't know what to think about his not very calm early responses. Maybe he was agitated over everyone claiming he was scum and was worried he would get lynched in his first town play in ages? He's played as scum many times before (and I think he enjoys it) and I'm sure he knows not to act that way. Apart from that, he does seem to commit quite a few scumtells in his posts (lack of commitment, etc, etc). Leaning Scum.

Poly: Nothing of substance (although not like I'm that much different dohoho). Although I doubt he would be as inactive as scum. Null.

SB: His first post of relative substance is a vote on Refa because of a lack of content despite admitting he has no strong reads either. He then acts unsure saying he thinks mostly everyone seems town (like I have room to criticize, lol) then votes and builds a case around me, maybe seeing me as an easy lynch target. Generally, his posts seem pretty weak and generic apart from his Terrador criticisms which seem nitpicky more than anything. Leaning Scum.

Kirche: Very few posts apart from a post on Refa which seems presumptuous (demotivated scum are ragey?) and skims over everyone else (which feels a little hypocritical since one of her points was that Refa had no scumreads despite pretty much having only one herself. Null/Leaning Scum.

Me: 100% Natural Scum Town

Eury: Few posts, except for a content-filled one...which only really covered the most suspicious players, picking apart everything they've said and then withheld a vote. Maybe to test the waters before voting? Should wait until she finishes. Null.

Shinori: Starts off with a few posts quoting posts he dislikes without elaborating much at all, then seemingly acts defensive when GP votes him? Later he skims over a few players and focuses on Euk, with his opinion of Refa improving because...similar reads? Basically non-commital and vague (again, like I have any right to say that). Strongest scumread right now. Scum.

Eclipse: One of the most active members and she seems to be pretty proactive. Also I thought the Prims/Manix exchange was bussing because they had the most interaction early on and that stood out the most to me. And it felt like most people were hoping on the Refa wagon because of his infamy as scum, not because of his posts. Again, wasn't feeling it yesterday. Leaning Town.

GP: Nothing she says seems out of the ordinary - well, for her, anyway. Nothing really jumps out at me. Null/Leaning Town.

bearclaw: I got nothing. Has like two posts. Null.

BBM: His hated role seems pretty towny, as others have said. Don't want to vote him and accidentally cause him to get lynched. Otherwise don't have much of a read on him. Leaning Town.

Euk: Seems proactive although seems to be spending a little too much time looking into Refa and backtracks a few times. Null.

Prims: Starts off with a few joke-posts then actually makes some good extensive posts without focusing on just one player. Leaning Town.

Manix: Goes along with Prims' joking (which looked like busing to me lolol *facepalm*) and half-claims his role. Whether he really is town or scum only revealing the most scummy part of his role I'm not sure about. Pursues GP and then puts his vote on me. Mostly reasonable stuff. Null/Leaning Town.

Call me "wishy-washy" or whatever but now that I've seen everything Shinori gets my vote.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

fixed

[Refa]

Before I read the thread and see what I missed, just found out that I got a message from the SK (I really should remember to look at the top of the screen once in a while). Apparently they can joint with scum (if there's only one scum alive) and If I'm scum, I was supposed to say "good" at the very beginning of this post. Not sure if the claim is legit, town pulling a gambit, or if they're just mafia fucking with me though.

[charlie_]

DAMMIT SB TELEPATHY COUNTS AS OC.

WELL I'M 40% BETTER THAN YOU AT MIND READING SO YEAH

Terra's subbing is unpleasant but I pretty much agree with Prims that it's more likely to come from town than scum, so eh. Blade's post makes me feel similarly (although if you think someone is a PR like a mason or something future, don't out it - the mafia don't need to know who to shoot at.)

I'm in agreement with the Euklyd scumreads, I haven't been reading his posts too closely but he has this passive aggressive tone that was present in his last scumgame and it feels like he's kind of tunneling on Refa who has kinda disappeared since his ISO streak (I would say is a null tell for him thought: see big nocers) even though he said that most of his content was fine. Would lynch.

I felt kinda eh on Shinori but the way he explained his vote after eclipse's prodding makes me feel better about him (and I didn't mention Prims because idk what to think on him and he's a kinda tough read anyway) so I'm not really concerned about him anymore.

FFM's last post still makes me think he's scum. A lot of his reads are very surface level and he's completely flipped around on his Prims and Manix suspicions, suddenly they're town to him and there isn't really a reason that I can see for why he changed his mind.

It's the same thing with his Refa suspicion, except apparently he did find his earlier posts suspicious but then didn't do anything but defend him which is really ??? because he didn't want to be seen as sheeping.

His other suspicions are on me for an earlygame post, says that I could be scum seeing him as an easy target with no reasoning backing it, and then says my other opinions have been weak/generic without explaining it, which is kind of terrible. His Shinori suspicion seems okay but it feels like it's kind of generalizing what Shinori has done rather than looking into it very much, so it doesn't give me a good feeling about him.

Also kirsche is a dude lol. (He's also the one subbing out, apparently.)

[BBM]

wow screw you SB you beat me to everything I wanted to say about FFM's post. The bits about Prims and Manix especially stand out to me because there's no reason given as to why he changed his opinions. Also the reason he gives for the initial thought that they were bussing makes no sense. Why do people interacting a lot have to be scum? And for that matter Prims/Manix also voted GP together, not just Refa.

[Elieson]

Effective immediately, Bluedoom (aka Marth) has subbed in for kirsche. Carry on.

[FrostyFireMage]

Going to bed now. Will check in morning.

[Refa]

Haven't read Page 15 yet.

W.r.t. other people, FFM is bad and I don't think you need me reiterating everything again (at least, not for a second time). GP v Manix didn't really give me a lot of reads but I haven't read their posts properly. Eclipse/Euk is worth watching out for for reads Refa said, but Refa is still the scummiest in-thread atm imo.

##Vote: Refa

Why would you sheep my reads if you think I'm scummy?

This sounds like scum-levels of paranoia. If some role or other incriminates GP, we'll deal with it then. Right now, the only way we're going to verify that is to lynch her, which in turn will trigger her role, which she's implied might as well be a NL.

ME - Hey, have some reference. I explained why I didn't like FFM at that point. Didn't see anyone else as worth a vote at that point. What I'm rather surprised you didn't point out was how Yours Truly and SB were posting the exact same things to FFM about a minute apart.

Euklyd - It feels like you're finding excuses to call people scummy. He posted a lot of that earlier, so why is it a huge problem only now?

Prims - Why does Prims get a neat little gold star when Manix is left out, despite the fact that you had earlier issues with one of the latter's vote and claim?

I don't think as scumbuddies, you'd both post the same case on FFM a minute apart lol. As for Euklyd, it's because I didn't look into him too deeply my first read around. Wasn't bothered with Manix's claim overall; I said I could see him claiming it as scum, but why I felt the claim was townier overall.

So why have you ignored the response once it was given?

His response wasn't alignment indicative. I could see him saying "it was a joke" as either alignment.

[Refa]

FUCK ME I HAD A BUNCH OF OTHER RESPONSES AND THEN ACCIDENTALLY DELETED THEM AND THIS IS THE WORST

[charlie_]

What kind of a response WOULD be alignment indicative?

I don't like how you said you wanted a reaction and then don't even say you got nothing out of it, it looks more like an excuse than anything else.

[bladescape]

Blade's post makes me feel similarly (although if you think someone is a PR like a mason or something future, don't out it - the mafia don't need to know who to shoot at.)

I remove all my actual reads in that direction from the post. I left my read on Pascal there because later posts made me think it wasn't a good read.

I have things to say about Pascal's list but too tired atm at 2 am. Won't have a computer until after class tomorrow so it can wait until then.

Also reposting Eclipse's clock because it's been half-lost and I wanted to make sure it's somewhere I don't forget about it or when D1 ends.

Day One End Clock

[Elieson]

I added the handy dandy clock to the OP, (scroll to the bottom to find the link to it) so remaining Phase Time will always be easy to spot.

[Refa]

GP: I think SB brought up Elie disliking Refa as a possibility (albeit a spurious one) to illustrate why FFM's logic was awful.

Yeah, everyone knows Elieson loves me.

I feel like GP is kind of taking both sides of the Refa/Me argument to an extent and it's bugging me a bit.

Explain, didn't really get that vibe myself.

Refa: Not really worth mention; he's reading town to me. Euklyd case looks solid; can't see any scum intent here. He alludes to a PR at one point, and I'd like to see him out it, but barring that, I don't have any issues with him, and can't quite tell why there's a wagon on him at all. Null read.

Manix: This is very worrying. Either there's a cult recruiter, or this is some sort of scum ploy messing with town. Also, your partial claim is very worrying. I hate that I'm rolespeccing this early in the game, but so much of this just doesn't fit into a potential town role. Let's look at the Theorymon , shall we?

2. You say this is a partial claim. This is pretty powerful on its own... powerful, multifaceted roles are traditionally scum.

Posting Restriction, 500 characters/post.

Multiroles aren't naturally scummy lol.

Uhhh you posted this right after you yourself talked about why FFM is scummy, don't do this shit to me. In any case his play isn't just bad, it's scummy because he has no thought process behind his opinions and needs to be poked for an entire page to get anything useful out of him. I explained why GP's claim is town while talking to Manix: " I can't see scum coming up with a role like that early on without there being a precedent for it and it's a horrible fakeclaim for a mod to give."

Refa looks BETTER after his ISOs and new content but I dislike how he explains why FFM is scummy but votes Euklyd instead and criticizes the other people going after FFM. It's essentially a soft defense. "Why would scum vote Manix?" isn't a relevant question since scum will just BS cases on whoever - they want town to lynch who they know is town, not specifically the townies they're voting. Commit to an opinion on FFM please.

I agree that FFM is scummy, just not with your case on him. Fair enough on your explanation of it and GP's claim though.

Don't see how I criticized people for scumreading FFM. I can still see FFM as scum despite his Manix vote because he hasn't really played many scum games overall and would be more prone to making bad plays.