PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Lucina's Husband]

Yes for Gerome. Nah will want Vengeance for when she comes up front and likely Anathema as well.

Oh wow. Will she come up front? I suppose as a Valkyrie she'll ferry Virion around and fight more often than she would as another support. Tempted to go Anathema/Tomefaire/Vengeance or Hex/All Stats +2 now!

[Vascela]

Males have an edge in the back due to aggressor; plus after galeforce is used, there really isn't any indicator that makes you obligated always lead with Brady again that turn. Of course, you can always go down the hard support route and never even touch a proc on Nah.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Brady's theoretical hit rate (assuming no rally heart, but yes to LB): ~258 rounded, which is an ideal hit.

148.5 (Stats) + 95 (Celica's +5/+15/0) + 15 (Non-DuSu+ support)

Don't forget WRB, 5/15 Celica's comes to a clean 100 Hit with it.

Oh wow. Will she come up front? I suppose as a Valkyrie she'll ferry Virion around and fight more often than she would as another support. Tempted to go Anathema/Tomefaire/Vengeance or Hex/All Stats +2 now!

It's certainly not beneath her. She's got plenty of free skillslots, so you might as well take advantage of them by making her an interesting lead.

I'm somewhat partial to using LB/Vengeance/Wrath/Anathema/Focus, which in the back with Wrath active, 61 Skl and a 3/0/15 Katarina's Bolt grants 115 effective crit. That's 60 listed against generic mooks, which gives you a 91% chance of nailing at least one crit. Giving Nah a Celica's Gale and putting her in the back sees four attacks per pair of DSes (so she does 4x the normal attack damage), giving her a Katarina's Bolt and an expected one normal attack + one crit also gives 4x the normal damage- but Katarina's Bolt is a good deal stronger than Celica's (discounting the lesser forge, the mt difference makes up for the loss of TF), has the potential to crit twice for massive damage, and is a lot more interesting in the face of the Brave spam everyone else will be doing.

Mind you, it does require that Wrath be active (or a significant reliability loss will be faced), and that can be difficult to keep up consistently. Keep a Celica's Gale on hand anyway for when it's not reliable- you'll still have decent listed crit, and the Atk drop from no TF isn't that bad- and bring her up front for the final turn whenever Wrath is active, since there'll be a hefty Vengeance boost to go alongside it and even more +crit from the support boost. Nah will stand a very real chance of OHKOing many threats upright. She's like critsweeping Laurent, except she trades perfect reliability and KO thresholds for much more freedom and can be used as a normal unit with the swap of a weapon.

[Radiant head]

How good is Gregor!Nah?

anyone know...?

[Czar_Yoshi]

She's a bit of a middle ground between Vaike and Henry, possessing Henry's TF Valk with less Mag and no critstack, and also Vaike's AF Hero with less Str. She has no proc so she might want to stay in the back, but also has an ingame availability advantage on both of them due to fast Nowi x Gregor supports.

Overall she's not as good as those two, but definitely not one of Nah's worse options.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Lucina's Husband]

Don't forget WRB, 5/15 Celica's comes to a clean 100 Hit with it.

It's certainly not beneath her. She's got plenty of free skillslots, so you might as well take advantage of them by making her an interesting lead.

I'm somewhat partial to using LB/Vengeance/Wrath/Anathema/Focus, which in the back with Wrath active, 61 Skl and a 3/0/15 Katarina's Bolt grants 115 effective crit. That's 60 listed against generic mooks, which gives you a 91% chance of nailing at least one crit. Giving Nah a Celica's Gale and putting her in the back sees four attacks per pair of DSes (so she does 4x the normal attack damage), giving her a Katarina's Bolt and an expected one normal attack + one crit also gives 4x the normal damage- but Katarina's Bolt is a good deal stronger than Celica's (discounting the lesser forge, the mt difference makes up for the loss of TF), has the potential to crit twice for massive damage, and is a lot more interesting in the face of the Brave spam everyone else will be doing.

Mind you, it does require that Wrath be active (or a significant reliability loss will be faced), and that can be difficult to keep up consistently. Keep a Celica's Gale on hand anyway for when it's not reliable- you'll still have decent listed crit, and the Atk drop from no TF isn't that bad- and bring her up front for the final turn whenever Wrath is active, since there'll be a hefty Vengeance boost to go alongside it and even more +crit from the support boost. Nah will stand a very real chance of OHKOing many threats upright. She's like critsweeping Laurent, except she trades perfect reliability and KO thresholds for much more freedom and can be used as a normal unit with the swap of a weapon.

Ahhh, so all I would have to do is accrue some damage with her to get Vengeance and Wrath going then watch her become a killing machine while leading if Brady ever wants to take a break, and you're also saying that between wrath, focus, anathema, and Katarina's bolt, she'll still make a great support/attacker from the back? I guess I can pass down Wrath from Henry since I hadn't thought of anything else (axefaire maybe? But she'll be a tomeuser)!

[Radiant head]

She's a bit of a middle ground between Vaike and Henry, possessing Henry's TF Valk with less Mag and no critstack, and also Vaike's AF Hero with less Str. She has no proc so she might want to stay in the back, but also has an ingame availability advantage on both of them due to fast Nowi x Gregor supports.

Overall she's not as good as those two, but definitely not one of Nah's worse options.

Oh right I forgot there's no proc. Though hard support would work. Is getting Luna from Fred/Kellam worth it over this?

[Ezrius]

Are there any criminally underrated pairings that are generally ignored in discussion because of Galeforce?

I've been away from this game for a while, in part because every play-through is starting to meld together because it always feels shoehorned into "get Galeforce on everyone." I'm considering a campaign that completely ignores it as a skill, and I'm just curious if there's anything the experts have always felt they'd do in a heartbeat if Galeforce wasn't dictating any of the choices. (Shockingly, I don't feel like Olivia would give up her dancing skills, ignore the swordsmanship potential her footwork gives her, and take up riding flying horses as a temporary hobby, just in case she ever had a son [and/or daughter] that wanted to get an extra turn after defeating his first enemy of a round.)

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

In that case then all i can say is that Inigo with non-Galeforce will suck balls imo :T

Edited November 24, 2015 by Formerly Colm

[Vascela]

Are there any criminally underrated pairings that are generally ignored in discussion because of Galeforce?

I've been away from this game for a while, in part because every play-through is starting to meld together because it always feels shoehorned into "get Galeforce on everyone." I'm considering a campaign that completely ignores it as a skill, and I'm just curious if there's anything the experts have always felt they'd do in a heartbeat if Galeforce wasn't dictating any of the choices. (Shockingly, I don't feel like Olivia would give up her dancing skills, ignore the swordsmanship potential her footwork gives her, and take up riding flying horses as a temporary hobby, just in case she ever had a son [and/or daughter] that wanted to get an extra turn after defeating his first enemy of a round.)

In most situations, the skill that replaces galeforce won't be as relevant as galeforce. What are the alternatives? Mag+2? Take it worth a grain of salt that I skip out on galeforce for Libra!Brady!Morgan for my no dlc/no rally 100% run. Doesn't mean galeforce is bad, it's just that those "alternatives" might shine in restricted runs (not necessarily "no galeforce" but rather a restriction in general).

That being said, Galeforceless Noire, Kjelle, and Nah are all pretty good options anyway; and even the galeforceless males are still good options as well.

And it's not like Olivia's skillset is ever more than special dance in the first place. Yeah, galeforce can go there (because you'd pass it for Inigo), but she'd never really use it (or any non-special dance skill really).

All that said reflects primarily on Apo--which is a completely different world from just the in game campaign. For in game, galeforce is only one of the many strategies used. To put it in perspective, a tome that's worth 1000g is just as (if not more) valuable than galeforce.

[Bunselpower]

So here's a theoretical. It goes off of the Brady support asked a couple posts back. I was also having some trouble getting a good Brady support. So the Henry!Nah valkyrie suggestion was just what I was looking for.

Now, gerome is left fatherless. What are my options here? I'd rather not break up stahl and virion from their current assignments, but would do it if need be. Also another question, is there a hit skill besides hexathema and hit plus 20 that could help fill the void should I use vaike? Or maybe pair him with a severa that has a hit plus 20 option from sniper?

Edited November 24, 2015 by Bunselpower

[Radiant head]

Gerome has access to three breakers between Hero and the wyvern tree. That's the only other option i can think of if you're going for an axefaire dad, though it's not going to be as reliable.

Also you can always just go with something like axefaire hero and just use the high skill. In my opinion Berserker str isn't necessary once you have aggressor and axefaire; and not to mention the high str mod people like Gregor or Vaike would provide.

ETA: Oh yeah, Ricken is another father for the archer line, though I'm not a fan of the mods.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Radiant head

[Bunselpower]

Yeah, I was afraid that those were the only options. Thank you for the response though. Tantivy is about the only hit skill he gets. Oh Henry, why can't there be more of you.

[Czar_Yoshi]

To make Bowfaire Gerome more worth it?

[Bunselpower]

Alright, I'm sitting here waiting for the workday to get over and running over some theoretical alternate run pairings. I have 7 kids paired, and 6 to go. Here are my paired kids, they are similar to my current run.

+Mag/-Def MaMU @ GM x Sumia!Lucina @ DF

Lucina!Morgan @ Valkyrie x Ricken!Owain @ Sage

Virion!Severa @ Sniper/Wyvern x Stahl!Yarne @ Berserker

Lon'qu!Brady @ Sage x Henry!Nah @ Valkyrie

I like those and am probably going to keep them, but I included them for your reference. Here are the remaining three sets, the ones I don't know how to pair up.

Chrom!Cynthia

Gregor!Laurent

Gaius!Noire

Vaike!Gerome

Donnel!Kjelle

Libra!Inigo

Basically, all could work reasonably well anywhere. But if there are small things that would give one the edge over another, I'd like to know. Thanks!

[Radiant head]

Yeah that should be fine. You could maybe switch Vaike and Henry since Nah is good with both, while Gerome knows who he wants, but then Nah would have to be physical and would mess up your second gen pairings.

[Bunselpower]

Yeah that should be fine. You could maybe switch Vaike and Henry since Nah is good with both, while Gerome knows who he wants, but then Nah would have to be physical and would mess up your second gen pairings.

Yeah, it pulled apart a bit there. But I had to make a choice between another physical support, which you can see I don't really need, or a really good magical support for Brady, something I didn't have in the last run. Nah has everything she needs to rock the support, including tomefaire, something dark flier noire can never get, and Brady is almost always left with a subpar support. Hero is fine, but the magic boost is really nice when nah will indeed come up front occasionally.

So what are the hit rate thresholds to hit for a perfect hit rate? I want to make sure I'm figuring this correctly.

[Lucina's Husband]

Yeah, it pulled apart a bit there. But I had to make a choice between another physical support, which you can see I don't really need, or a really good magical support for Brady, something I didn't have in the last run. Nah has everything she needs to rock the support, including tomefaire, something dark flier noire can never get, and Brady is almost always left with a subpar support. Hero is fine, but the magic boost is really nice when nah will indeed come up front occasionally.

So what are the hit rate thresholds to hit for a perfect hit rate? I want to make sure I'm figuring this correctly.

My pairings are almost identical to yours with Vaike! Severa and Virion! Gerome!

[Czar_Yoshi]

So what are the hit rate thresholds to hit for a perfect hit rate? I want to make sure I'm figuring this correctly.

220 is a general threshold that gives perfect hit on all non-bosses and the like, so everyone should be at least there. I think the highest is 257 (don't remember for sure) on Anna when she's on her Throne.

Also Hero is a Str/Mag-neutral support. It goes just as well behind a Sage as it does a Paladin or something.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Bunselpower]

220 is a general threshold that gives perfect hit on all non-bosses and the like, so everyone should be at least there. I think the highest is 257 (don't remember for sure) on Anna when she's on her Throne.

Also Hero is a Str/Mag-neutral support. It goes just as well behind a Sage as it does a Paladin or something.

Right, and that is what I did on my current actual run. But I was musing, as I have another save file on which to toy with pairings, such as Gaius!Noire just to try it out, and the critical stacking Nah seemed too fun to pass up, and considering how well it meshed with Brady I went for it. Not a huge deal, but the magic boost is really nice. Plus, gerome will end up with, I believe, a 221 hit rate, which should suffice considering he'll probably be with Kjelle.

And those calcs do line up with what I had done, so that's good to know.

Another question, I know it's not exactly the best idea to do this, but can a lead with hit plus 20 boost the hut rate of the rear unit?

[Vascela]

HR+20 is selfish hit. Doesn't matter if they are leading or supporting, but it only affects the user equipped.

[Lucina's Husband]

Considering a playthrough where characters are used in classes where their models are unique (i.e. Chrom as Great Lord, Avatar as Grandmaster, Sumia or Cordelia as Falcon Knights, Emmeryn as Sage, Aversa as Dark Flier: Would there be a set of pairings specifically good for these?

Lucina: Great Lord

Severa: Bow Knight

Brady: War Monk or Sage

Noire: Sniper

Cynthia: Dark Flier or Falcon Knight (Doesn't matter because neither are unique except for her Pegasus Knight)

Inigo: Hero? (Again doesn't matter because only his Mercenary is unique)

Yarne: Taguel

Nah: Manakete

Laurent: Sage or Sorcerer

Owain: Assassin or Swordmaster

Morgan: Grandmaster

Gerome: Wyvern Lord

Kjelle: General or Great Knight

[Radiant head]

Lucina - Olivia or Sumia

Severa - Virion, maybe Stahl.

Brady - Henry, maybe Gregor for War Monk, Lon'qu/Virion/Libra/anyone for Sage

Noire. - Gaius/Vaike/Donnel

Cynthia - Anyone, preferably Chrom

Yarne - no father makes taguel good

Nah - Male avatar is ideal, but Henry/Vaike might work

Laurent - Gregor for lead, anyone for hard support sage

Owain - MU or Stahl. Though he'll probably suck no matter what. Might want to consider breaking the rule and give Dread Fighter

Morgan - second gen male with best mods?

Gerome -Henry/Virion/Stahl/Gregor/Vaike

Kjelle - Gaius/Donnel, maybe Vaike. I prefer Donnel because the hair goes with the armor.

[EarthboundAddict]

Hey um I'm kind of worried I might have screwed up lucina. I'm doing a no grind playthrough and am heading up to chapter 13.

I married Chrom off to a Magic asset, Strength flaw Avatar and fear I may have crippled lucina. My avatar is a level 1 sage and my chrom is a level 4 great Lord.

I did the calculations and her mods are: str -1, mag +5, skl +1, spd +4, lck +2, def -1 and res +2.

Her growth rates are okay I guess but her bases are kinda low compared to most units on my team (who are level 1 promoted units, mind you). Have I screwed lucina up?

[Thor Odinson]

Lucina is a level 10 unpromoted unit. If you have promoted units unless she comes from very overlevelled parents her bases will not be higher. If they're sufficent to deal with the enemies,they're good enough. With Veteran she gets an entire level per kill for like 9-10 levels if you immediately reclass her back to level 1 something.

For reference I have a sorta-log of my L+ playthrough and I had MU and Chrom's stats at the time of Lucina's conception.

(for some stroke of miracle, I actually proc'd res. This is +Str -Res build)

Character  Cls     Lv           HP  ST  MG  SK  SP  LK  DF  RS
Avatar     BowKnt  20/12/20/12  80  44  27  45  40  40  37  19
Chrom      Cav     10/15        40  24  3   25  19  22  16  7
Lucina     Lord    10           46  25  11  27  23  25  20  10

MU by this point is pretty much capped or almost capped. Chrom is 25 levels in, so I guess he's roughly similar to a 20/1 unit since the 4 more levels can pretend to be a promotion bonus, I guess. Lucina is superior to chrom, but not too significantly, and that's with an entirely overkill mom at this point. So if her bases are servicable, it's probably okay. +Mag -Str is not a build that goes too well with Chrom and Lucina, though, since they're more physically oriented, especially in no grind. Ones that mesh better are +Str or +Spd.

I guess you can see how she faires in Grandmaster? Might as well go hybrid at this point. Or Dark Knight. Both will allow her to continue to take advantage of Falchion while not letting your Mag growths go to waste. There's always Dark Flier to nab galeforce, also, and that's a hybrid class as well. You can always go Dark Knight after. With Veteran Lucina should level fast enough to actually pull that off.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Thor Odinson