PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Radiant head]

Dual Guard Plus isn't that useful on Nah. Though she might have the defense to utilize it better than most, it's still not very reliable.

Otherwise, that looks pretty good to me.

[TheSilentChloey]

Is Vaike!Brady any good as a War Monk with Axefaire?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Aha Czar! Just the person I wanted to ask.

So here's an updated version of my set up. It should more organized now at least :D

Btw, what's your opinion on Sniper vs Bow Knight? I'm so tempted to use Longbow for getting in free shots. :3

So for Robin x Lucina pairing, I'm so tempted to replace Dual Strike+ with something like Tomefaire too...

If you want to organize your list, a better way to go about it would be to list children along with their alternate parent (eg Sumia!Lucina). Otherwise I have to look in two different places to see what your options are and what you've chosen to do.

Snipers and BKs are both good and both have their uses. Snipers are very important in challenge runs and other situations where it's difficult to engage certain enemies directly and/or you need a poke to get a guaranteed kill, and also have better Skl. BKs are slightly faster, have more Mov and give better pairup bonuses. I generally use some of both of them, but keep in mind that poking is less important when you're not doing a challenge run because stuff dies to six hits anyway.

DSt+ is Lucina's best skill, it's more important than LB. Definitely don't get rid of it. What you should do, though, is make sure you know why you're using VV- unless you have a particular situation in mind that you need it for, it'll never help (and there aren't many situations in Apo where it's even the best answer).

[Radiant head]

Is Vaike!Brady any good as a War Monk with Axefaire?

He's usable if you want a physical war monk, but Vaike and Maribelle have a horrible mod clash, and Brady's magic gets impaired, so I'm not a fan.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Is there any suggested number of Snipers that should be fielded in Apo, or does it not really matter? Right now I have Gaius!Noire and Stahl!Inigo, and the latter I'm tempted to make a Bow Knight instead. Then I have Morgan, Sumia!Lucina, and Chrom!Cynthia, who could all also pull it off, though I have them in other classes atm.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Radiant head

[EarthboundAddict]

Brady would want Galeforce because DSp+ isn't really worth the trade-off imo.

I know galeforce is better but it's too late at his point. I might as we'll pass on what maribelle can acess.

[amiabletemplar]

Started a new file in Fire Emblem: Awakening, in part to correct some foolish mistakes I'd made (like not realizing that Lissa could become a Dark Flier until *after* acquiring Owain...), but also to see how a female Avatar differs from a male Avatar. As is my wont, I've done a goodly amount of research, including some references to this website, to find advice and information about "ideal" (non-Avatar) parents for various children, and figured it couldn't hurt to get some feedback on my choices.

The only pairing that I've completely committed to, at this point, is Chrom/Avatar. However, some of the pairings I've picked are more or less fixed, while others are much more open to change; I'll mark them as such below. I've intentionally tried to get as many Galeforce units as possible; only Kjelle will fail to get it, since I don't have a male Avatar to father one of the "can get Pegasus Rider from her dad" daughters.

Sumia/Henry**

Nowi/Donnel**

Tharja/Gaius**

Miriel/Ricken*
Sully/Vaike*
Maribelle/Libra*

Olivia/Virion

Panne/Gregor

Lissa/Lon'qu†

Cherche/Frederick†

Cordelia/Stahl†

* = I'd prefer not to change this if I don't have to, but will consider it.

** = Not going to change without a pretty compelling reason.

† = I'm not sure these are great choices, it won't be hard to make me change them.

Edit: If it helps, I also have a (rough) idea of what role I want the children to fill, I just figure it's better to keep things simple for now. I'm not a huge buff on the series and may not understand all the acronyms/jargon employed, so I apologize if I come across like a dullard. I'm just new to Fire Emblem optimization!

Edited December 2, 2015 by amiabletemplar

[Radiant head]

I would switch Donnel and Vaike. Donnel!Nah gets really terrible overall modifiers, especially in speed. And she doesn't get an offensive proc like Luna, so Galeforce feels a bit wasted here. Vaike!Nah won't have GF but she'll get good physical mods, as well as access to Luna and the Hero class which makes her very viable. Donnel!Kjelle is really solid because she already has some great class options, and just wants access to Galeforce (and the purple hair looks great on her). Having said that, I don't really like pairing Nowi with anyone who doesn't look like a kid, so I guess I can get if you don't want to change these.

Would also switch Virion and Fred. Virion!Inigo has a lot of cool stuff going for him, but the lack of an offensive proc like Luna or Vengeance frustratingly keeps him from being optimal. Inigo can get Luna from Fred and he's good to go. Fred!Gerome is really bad. Gerome is usually used as hard support because he can never get Galeforce, and can't do something like VV either. So he wants things like Hit+20 and a faire, and gets none of those from Fred, while Virion gives both of those things.

I would maybe consider swapping Lon'qu and Stahl. Lon'qu doesn't give Owain anything he wants. There's class overlap, and Owain doesn't get Luna/Vengeance. Stahl!Severa is solid, but she already has everything she wants skill-wise, so you could probably put Stahl to better use. Stahl gives Owain Luna, as well as modifiers to be good at both strength and magic.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Those three switches are pretty important, definitely do them (Fred most of all, Fred!Gerome is a practical joke played by an infamous troll on the Gfaqs community years ago where he tried to convince people that a bottom-of-the-barrel pairing was top tier, and succeeded). From there, if you wanted to, you could switch Gregor and Virion to get Hit+20 on Yarne and Berserker on Gerome, but it's not strictly beneficial unlike the rest of those changes.

What Asset/Flaw are you using? And welcome to the Forest, by the way!

Edited December 2, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[TheSilentChloey]

He's usable if you want a physical war monk, but Vaike and Maribelle have a horrible mod clash, and Brady's magic gets impaired, so I'm not a fan.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Is there any suggested number of Snipers that should be fielded in Apo, or does it not really matter? Right now I have Gaius!Noire and Stahl!Inigo, and the latter I'm tempted to make a Bow Knight instead. Then I have Morgan, Sumia!Lucina, and Chrom!Cynthia, who could all also pull it off, though I have them in other classes atm.

Hmm, I would have to look that up. Vaike!Brady seemed fine to me. Then again I am not the best judge of what is the best thing for the kids...especially since I play normal/casual...and totally screw it up all of the time.

Chrom!Morgan is something that I am not so certain on...I have seen suggestions of Dark Knight, but are there other viable options where Morgan would/could shine. Also what is a good finish for Olivia!Lucina!Morgan for my current M!Mu playthrough? I'm trying to get her to have Galeforce at the moment so she is a Dark Flier. I'm thinking Grandmaster, but that might not be too helpful I'm not sure.

[amiabletemplar]

I would switch Donnel and Vaike. Donnel!Nah gets really terrible overall modifiers, especially in speed. And she doesn't get an offensive proc like Luna, so Galeforce feels a bit wasted here. Vaike!Nah won't have GF but she'll get good physical mods, as well as access to Luna and the Hero class which makes her very viable. Donnel!Kjelle is really solid because she already has some great class options, and just wants access to Galeforce (and the purple hair looks great on her). Having said that, I don't really like pairing Nowi with anyone who doesn't look like a kid, so I guess I can get if you don't want to change these.

Would also switch Virion and Fred. Virion!Inigo has a lot of cool stuff going for him, but the lack of an offensive proc like Luna or Vengeance frustratingly keeps him from being optimal. Inigo can get Luna from Fred and he's good to go. Fred!Gerome is really bad. Gerome is usually used as hard support because he can never get Galeforce, and can't do something like VV either. So he wants things like Hit+20 and a faire, and gets none of those from Fred, while Virion gives both of those things.

I would maybe consider swapping Lon'qu and Stahl. Lon'qu doesn't give Owain anything he wants. There's class overlap, and Owain doesn't get Luna/Vengeance. Stahl!Severa is solid, but she already has everything she wants skill-wise, so you could probably put Stahl to better use. Stahl gives Owain Luna, as well as modifiers to be good at both strength and magic.

Understood. It's unfortunate that Donnel!Nah isn't very good; I have a huge soft spot for dragons (one of my favorite mythical beasts!). Since I'll still get two Galeforce users out of the deal, though, it's an acceptable switch--though I definitely feel you on the "pairing Nowi with non-childlike characters feels weird." The only reason my male Avatar married her is because my aformentioned love of dragons was stronger than the ick factor (because zomg DRAGON BABIES). Completely understood on the Gerome thing (well, other than precisely what VV means--I assume Vantage+Vengeance?); ironically, Frederick as a father seems to be in pretty high demand, but as a result I ended up keeping him in reserve until relatively late, so I'm perfectly fine switching that around. Pretty much the same with Lon'qu and Stahl, actually. Thank you much for your help!

Those three switches are pretty important, definitely do them (Fred most of all, Fred!Gerome is a practical joke played by an infamous troll on the Gfaqs community years ago where he tried to convince people that a bottom-of-the-barrel pairing was top tier, and succeeded). From there, if you wanted to, you could switch Gregor and Virion to get Hit+20 on Yarne and Berserker on Gerome, but it's not strictly beneficial unlike the rest of those changes.

What Asset/Flaw are you using? And welcome to the Forest, by the way!

Good to know on Fred!Gerome. Not surprised that someone would try to pull that off--only that it was so successful.

My Avatar's Asset is HP, her Flaw is Luck. And dobryj vyechyer, comrade.

(Edit: Also, just to avoid confusion, I'm not actually Russian nor do I actually understand it; I just thought it was humorously appropriate given your username.)

Edited December 3, 2015 by amiabletemplar

[amiabletemplar]

(Edit: accidental double post; the Cloudflare server broke but still accepted my post.)

Edited December 3, 2015 by amiabletemplar

[Czar_Yoshi]

Understood. It's unfortunate that Donnel!Nah isn't very good; I have a huge soft spot for dragons (one of my favorite mythical beasts!). Since I'll still get two Galeforce users out of the deal, though, it's an acceptable switch. Completely understood on the Gerome thing; ironically, Frederick as a father seems to be in pretty high demand, but as a result I ended up keeping him in reserve until relatively late, so I'm perfectly fine switching that around. Pretty much the same with Lon'qu and Stahl, actually. Thank you much for your help!

Good to know on Fred!Gerome. Not surprised that someone would try to pull that off--only that it was so successful.

My Avatar's Asset is HP, her Flaw is Luck. And dobryj vyechyer, comrade.

(Edit: Also, just to avoid confusion, I'm not actually Russian; I just thought it was humorously appropriate given your username.)

Manaketes in general just aren't too good in Apo (you didn't specifically say you were focusing on that, but it's what everyone here assumes unless specified otherwise). Nah can still make herself useful, just in another class.

If you like Manaketes and want to see them be really good, though, it's better to just do something else they are good at. Nowi in particular shines the most on vanilla Lunatic as a frontliner with a Seraph Robe, Dragonstone+ from spotpass and a Merc Robin husband- she takes very little time to get going, is incredibly destructive, and Morgan/Nah with Veteran inheritance are even better.

Fred is fairly low demand, actually. His most common use is on Inigo, who doesn't really mind the Spd/Mag drop and gets Paladin and Luna out of the deal. He's sometimes used as a filler option on non-GF Noire thanks to his good Str/Skl mods, and similarly for Yarne when no Sniper dads are available. Outside of that, not many want him. He's probably the second least wanted dad in the game, behind Kellam and ahead of Donnel and Libra.

That is... Quite possibly the flattest mod spread I've ever seen on a Morgan. He'll be stuck with +2/1/2/2/1/2/2 Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res (I think, +HP isn't a common asset so I might be remembering it wrong). I legitimately can't think of any way to put that to use. Uhh... Maybe as a Grandmaster with All+2 supporting a Sage? A Dread Fighter with All+2 supporting a Dark Flier? Really haven't got a clue.

Eheh, my name is a pun on a boss from Super Mario RPG.

[Radiant head]

How good is Ricken!Nah? Is she just hard support sage, or can she do more?

Also is there a suggested number of snipers to be fielded in apo? I only have Noire and Inigo right now.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Radiant head

[Vascela]

The ideal number of snipers depends on the player and the restrictions.

[amiabletemplar]

Manaketes in general just aren't too good in Apo (you didn't specifically say you were focusing on that, but it's what everyone here assumes unless specified otherwise). Nah can still make herself useful, just in another class.

Good to know. Though to be honest, I'm not touching Apotheosis until I get quite a bit more experience under my belt. I'm really a very casual player, I just have enough math background and an interest in "playing well" to care, somewhat, about optimization.

If you like Manaketes and want to see them be really good, though, it's better to just do something else they are good at. Nowi in particular shines the most on vanilla Lunatic as a frontliner with a Seraph Robe, Dragonstone+ from spotpass and a Merc Robin husband- she takes very little time to get going, is incredibly destructive, and Morgan/Nah with Veteran inheritance are even better.

Interesting. I'll keep that in mind, if I ever decide to up the difficulty. For now, I'm still playing on Normal/Casual.

Fred is fairly low demand, actually. His most common use is on Inigo, who doesn't really mind the Spd/Mag drop and gets Paladin and Luna out of the deal. He's sometimes used as a filler option on non-GF Noire thanks to his good Str/Skl mods, and similarly for Yarne when no Sniper dads are available. Outside of that, not many want him. He's probably the second least wanted dad in the game, behind Kellam and ahead of Donnel and Libra.

Sounds like I was taken in by that GameFAQs trickster. Good to know. Thanks, again, for your help. I tend to think fairly defensively, rather than offensively, and it's taking time to adjust.

That is... Quite possibly the flattest mod spread I've ever seen on a Morgan. He'll be stuck with +2/1/2/2/1/2/2 Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res (I think, +HP isn't a common asset so I might be remembering it wrong). I legitimately can't think of any way to put that to use. Uhh... Maybe as a Grandmaster with All+2 supporting a Sage? A Dread Fighter with All+2 supporting a Dark Flier? Really haven't got a clue.

You have a good memory; I poked around and found the tools to check, and you're completely right. When I chose them, I was thinking, "Ah, this means having no weaknesses!" But as I'm learning more, it seems that "no specific strengths" is, itself, a weakness--or at least it can be.

Eheh, my name is a pun on a boss from Super Mario RPG.

Aha. I've never played any of the Mario RPGs myself, so that sailed right over my head.

[EarthboundAddict]

what is a good class for lonqu!Brady? Im thinking trickster to make use of his good magic,skill and speed. This is for in game BTW don't ask how I recruited him. I had to waste a lot of turns.

[Radiant head]

Brady is pretty useless in game thanks to Maribelle's frail stats and his starting class. If you're grinding him, I usually give him a dread scroll as soon as he's recruited, so that he can get offensive power as well as some nice, balanced growths for 30 levels (Lon could pass swordfaire, but not necessary). He should end on Sage. The idea of Lon'qu!Brady is that you have a Galeboy magic nuke who's also really speedy.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I tend to think fairly defensively, rather than offensively, and it's taking time to adjust.

You have a good memory; I poked around and found the tools to check, and you're completely right. When I chose them, I was thinking, "Ah, this means having no weaknesses!" But as I'm learning more, it seems that "no specific strengths" is, itself, a weakness--or at least it can be.

Might as well talk about this bit, then.

When capped, your units have 80 HP (85 with a tonic). This doesn't change based on class or mods, so it's very reliable. For you to die, you're going to need to lose every bit of that.

Assuming you have a minmaxed team, you'll have a lot of units with a lot of Galeforce and Rescue backing them up, and enough killing power that you have a very low chance of dropping kills. There is no point in the game, DLC or otherwise, where you are faced with a bigger flood of enemies than this can hold back (RaR3 on Lunatic is the closest it gets), so you can always keep your area of the map safe by virtue of killing anything that comes near and then running away.

Because of that, you can fight all your battles on Player Phase, and because of that you can control exactly what who fights. Thus, you should never be in danger of dying from attrition.

As a result, RNG-based anti-damage skills like PavGis, DG+ and Sol have relatively little application. In an event where you can live without them activating, they effectively do nothing for your survival and at the very best give you more options for your next turn (due to having more HP than expected). In an event where you require them to activate to not die, you've placed your fate in the hands of the RNG, which is something you should never deliberately do. And in the event where you'll die whether or not they activate, well...

Since perfect Player Phase Offense (PPO) gives you map control and allows you to engage in only safe battles, the meta is thus about maximizing your chance of killing stuff through more and more RNG-based overkill. And about doubling everything, because why not.

As a side note, since you can heal to full after every battle should you want to, exactly how much damage you take from an enemy doesn't matter so much as how many hits it takes for them to kill you. There's really no difference between getting hit by a 30 damage attack at 1HP and 30HP after all, you're still dead. And when you're trying to make a build with the stats to survive a particular encounter, it turns out there's a really big difference between how little Def you need to be OHKOed and how much you need to not be 2HKOed- so big that, in the case of Apo's Helswath Berserker (the best example of this), it's not possible for a minmaxed unit to have so little Def that they get OHKOed (assuming LB, Rallies and a generic pairup- less than 30 Def would be required) and also (barely) not possible to get one so tanky it can take two hits (110 Def with HP+5 and an HP tonic), outside of niche 100% PavGis builds.

That is to say, Def isn't really important. It's perfectly fine to use it as a dump stat in favor of boosting others; a +Str/-Def Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan has a +6/0/8/6/-1/-2/-3 mod spread and it's one of the best in the game. A 5-10% loss in defenses is typically worth a 15-20% increase in offense.

[Lucina's Husband]

Brady is pretty useless in game thanks to Maribelle's frail stats and his starting class. If you're grinding him, I usually give him a dread scroll as soon as he's recruited, so that he can get offensive power as well as some nice, balanced growths for 30 levels (Lon could pass swordfaire, but not necessary). He should end on Sage. The idea of Lon'qu!Brady is that you have a Galeboy magic nuke who's also really speedy.

Luckily, you can give him a Master Seal right away and put him in Sage, and start working up experience--just make sure to pack some tomes! If you've devoted all your resources to giving Maribelle Galeforce, he'll be amazing! With a high movement class and Galeforce, the two of them can finish the level at just about any time, but gain plenty of experience first.

[Radiant head]

Yeah, but he levels up slower that way. Mage would do, but I'd rather pick Aggressor ASAP.

[Zerosabers]

How are these pairings? I have all DLC skills and classes except +2 All and Iote's Shield.

Sumia!Sniper!Lucina

Ricken!Sage!Owain

Henry!Dread Fighter!Inigo

Lon'qu!Sage!Brady

Gaius!Assassin!Kjelle

Chrom!Sniper!Cynthia

Avatar!Grand Master!Severa

Stahl!Warrior!Gerome

Cordelia!Grand Master!Morgan

Virion!Berserker!Yarne

Gregor!Sage!Laurent

Donnel!Dark Knight!Noire

Vaike!Manakete!Nah

Nah is just for being annoying in a spotpass team and won't be deployed in Apothesis.

[Zerosabers]

Double Post :(

Edited December 4, 2015 by Zerosabers

[Radiant head]

How are these pairings? I have all DLC skills and classes except +2 All and Iote's Shield.

Sumia!Sniper!Lucina

Ricken!Sage!Owain

Henry!Dread Fighter!Inigo

Lon'qu!Sage!Brady

Gaius!Assassin!Kjelle

Chrom!Sniper!Cynthia

Avatar!Grand Master!Severa

Stahl!Warrior!Gerome

Cordelia!Grand Master!Morgan

Virion!Berserker!Yarne

Gregor!Sage!Laurent

Donnel!Dark Knight!Noire

Vaike!Manakete!Nah

Nah is just for being annoying in a spotpass team and won't be deployed in Apothesis.

What's your avatar's asset/flaw?

May want to switch Donnel and Gaius, because Donnel's mods make Noire really bad, especially for magic, while Kjelle can be good despite Donnel's mods.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Assassin's Spd is wasted on Gaius!Kjelle, make her a Paladin or Wyvern instead. But in general you should figure out your child ending classes while/after pairing the children up; most (good) kids have several classes they can run well and the best will depend on what they're leading/supporting.

[Zerosabers]

What's your avatar's asset/flaw?

May want to switch Donnel and Gaius, because Donnel's mods make Noire really bad, especially for magic, while Kjelle can be good despite Donnel's mods.

+Spd -Def

I'll think about it, I've also never done Gaius!Noire so that would be interesting. I thought Kjelle was considered better with Gaius though.

Assassin's Spd is wasted on Gaius!Kjelle, make her a Paladin or Wyvern instead. But in general you should figure out your child ending classes while/after pairing the children up; most (good) kids have several classes they can run well and the best will depend on what they're leading/supporting.

Oh, thank you!