Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[Sunwoo]

What happened to my post? Why does the "I didn't understand [...]" part appear twice?

That's a good point, Paper was more active than Proto and it would be easier to get answers out of him as opposed to Proto who was absent. I'm guessing you're not reading Paper to be nearly as bad as you thought so before, but what are your thoughts on Proto now?

[Grace]

dethy games are pissing me off right now so i might be a little on edge

@Paperboard: response from here noted.

I would like more people to comment on my SB case since I feel like only 1-2 people have

the case is okay enough, but when I read SB's iso I was kinda fencesitting on him so I'm not sure whether i'd pursue it further right now

I think Proto is an easy target because he usually doesn't do much and prefers to play games more like they're OC (going so far as to suggest D1 no lynch). I don't think he's scum atm

you said this about blitz and you changed your mind on that. could you go reread proto and see if your opinion on him changes?

[peener weener]

Wait what

Ok fuck didnt actually make a post afterwards

##vote: blitz, yeah

[Strege]

That's a good point, Paper was more active than Proto and it would be easier to get answers out of him as opposed to Proto who was absent. I'm guessing you're not reading Paper to be nearly as bad as you thought so before, but what are your thoughts on Proto now?

Yes about Paper. I think my problems with point 18 of his SB-read-through now compose the majority of my suspicions of him, but I'd still like him to comment on that because it looks kinda bad and because if he actually ignored SB's comment on Proto then it's relevant to his reads.

Proto still looks pretty scummy, actually. Rereading him now I noticed that post 484 echoes his own post 356 about Paperblade (I don't know why he's outing a townread here too, unless someone asked him and I missed it, since Paper isn't really a wagon) and his opinion of Shinori goes from townread to a null read with sudden recognition of Shinori's focus on Neko and a reinterpretation of the Baldrick vote, which I'd like an explanation of. Post 356 addressed my problem with him dropping the kirsche suspicion, but it sort of looks like he's nursing the scumread without pushing anything honestly (kirsche posted a fair bit overnight and today, so it'd be helpful if Proto gave some analysis of that more than "He started contributing more from N1 onwards though.")

Bold that vote Stahlypin (don't edit your post though). I could also use some detail on the vote and how confident in it you are, since you ended your analysis of him with "and apparently that is just the way he plays according to some people and ugh"

[Strege]

Actually, dangit, I'll ##Unvote (Kay), ##Vote: Proto. He's my biggest scumread by a large enough margin that the fact that he's not the most active shouldn't stop this. I guess Kay's not going to get that last post in anyway.

[Paperblade]

@Manix: I reread his iso immediately before making that post

[Grace]

@Manix: I reread his iso immediately before making that post

:/ okay.

[Kay]

Blitz's vote feels really easy to me. His ZM vote is more justified than Objection's Rein vote in that ZM has actually been here, but this is ZM's first game on SF, and jumping into a 24p game isn't exactly easy. I question that Blitz can't find anything better than that.

Looking through some of the lurkers, NNR and necktie ping me due to promising content and not delivering. I know necktie mentioned a few times over IRC that he was feeling in over his head, but even like gutreads are better than nothing necktie. NNR said he was busy/tired so I don't blame him a lot, but still.

Just because someone's new doesn't mean they aren't scum. IMO, it's reasonable to give them a break for it, but there's nothing wrong with sticking to a scumread on them, either.

Uhhh... Necktie really shouldn't be talking about that on IRC? Not sure if scumslip or pardonable rulebreaking.

@Strege: My vote on Blitz was more of a casual, non-serious vote cuz I still thought we were in RVS and I just felt like voting someone for the heck of it. I do think what blitz did earlier is normal for him cuz he usually likes to make everyone go against him and then scumhunt based on how people scumread him.

It was really not much like RVS at that point...

Yes, it's my first. And now that I've read back...

##Vote: Baldrick

His posts regarding BBM just rubbed me in the wrong way.

Are you able to elaborate on that at all?

@SB, I have to agree with Paperblade that your pushes on Proto has been totally useless and you probably would have done better to push Kay, because Proto doesn't post unless he thinks it is time to do so, ever. As for Kay, she only posts when she has materials to post. And I think you are scummy in that regard

I have a feeling this might be poor phrasing on your part, but why does that make it more useful to pressure me? Sounds like what you're saying is that both of us will post when we have stuff to say, so where's the difference?

That's not even the only reason. You're playing it off like that's the only thing I think is wrong about it. Horribly inactive and comments about making a post that he doesn't follow through with ever.

Aren't these some of the same reasons I get voted for periodically in games? I go inactive don't make any posts and when I do post I just say I'm gonna post later, and don't so then you guys all vote me and I get lynched?

Yet when I do it to someone else who is doing close to the same thing I get flak for it? Please have more double standards.

You're saying something shouldn't be scummy when you do it but you're mad that people lynch you for it so you're suspecting someone else based on that? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you.

Okay, so. Over my reread, I found the one content post that Kay made to be not very good. Her defence of Blitz gave no actual reasons for why Blitz is town. Hearing someone say a wagon is terrible and stupid without any reasoning given isn't going to make anyone unvote. My gut on people defending others while giving no reasoning for it is mafia wanting to defend town for cred rather than to actually stop the lynch. Her point on Marth was good, but she chose not to pursue it because Marth was already receiving enough pressure. First off, I don't really think that that's a very good reason, and second of all, even if it were a good reason, there were actually no votes on Marth at the time, so that reason makes no sense. Her blurb on Kevin also seems a simplification to the point of misrepresentation. Seems to me that Kevin was saying "It wasn't particularly scummy, just scummier than everything else, so I voted for it"

As for the vote, while I didn't really like Strege's rolespec either, Kay barely says anything about it at all.

I didn't say Blitzy was town. I have basically a nullread on Blitzy, kinda think scum might have been pushing that wagon but that's the only thing in his favor. I just thought the wagon was bad.

Also, yeah, I should have clarified the part about the wagon, but really, how much do you want me to elaborate on not liking someone's rolespeccing?

Don't understand the bit about Announcers.

I stand by the assertion that almost all of my rolespec had a purpose but I see what you mean that it's easy activity to hide behind. What I meant was that, if I had avoided rolespeccing completely in favour of scumhunting, my posts would be a fair bit shorter just due to my time constraints, and calling me out for that would be criticizing low activity which is bad. I see that you (and Kay, presumably) are criticizing my choice to do a lot of rolespec over a some scumhunting, which is better than I thought.

This assumption is correct.

What do you think about the Baldrick wagon from yesterday and/or the people on it?

6/10 would not sheep but do not object to. Probably there were scum on the wagon, but probably there were scum off the wagon too. I don't have any particular idea who they were. So yeah, this is a really verbose null.

I don't think this addresses the case on Proto particularly well. First off, his play is like that as either alignment, so setting him aside due to that makes little sense. And yeah, Proto is often not very active with fewer reads in NOC, but right now even the few reads he does have are filled with inconsistencies (IIRC, Manix pointed out something about what he said about Kevin and Marth).

Nah, he usually does slightly less bizarre stuff as scum.

I don't like that Kay's reason for attacking the Blitz wagon was based in meta, and that's all I get from her last post. I don't know Kay's infamous schedule but am I correct in thinking that if she doesn't post soon she won't for another 2-3 days? If that's the case I might move my vote so it's doing something more useful but at this point I wouldn't mind her being lynched.

I meant to ask this forever ago, but could anyone with more experience put out a guess of the amount of mafia and third parties that exist? I don't know how relevant it is but I've never played in a game like this so personally I don't have clue.

It wasn't really based on meta, the meta was a lesser point against it. Mostly I just thought it was basically because people were suspicious of reaction tests so I was saying that wasn't a scumtell, and then was adding that it should be even less of one for Blitzy. Could have left off the meta part entirely and it wouldn't have made much difference in terms of what I meant.

Depends a lot on roles in a game this big, somewhere around 1 out of 3 is a fairly usual ratio in any case.

Secondly, the taunting. It's implying that you don't care about dying, and you are just begging for people to lynch you. But why? Why did you post that? Do you have some kind of ability? What would make you not care about dying, or even being mislynched? I don't know.

Blitzy likes to be a scapegoat, he always talks like that.

I don't like Manix's ISO, it looks extremely fluffy and I do not recall him saying much that stood out a whole lot. Objection! also seems to have no solid scumreads? It looks to me like he's just saying most things are not particularly scummy, with not much he is suspicious of at all.

btw I don't really like the "I'm gonna read through so-and-so's ISO later, that's all for now" comments because it seems like a good way for scum to delay being called out for a lack of opinion on someone.

##Stab: Objection! for aforementioned reasons.

[Kay]

wow, that was a huge quotedump, sorry ;/

[Strege]

It was really not much like RVS at that point...

This was about Bluedoom's first post in which he voted Blitz. Point of clarification: do you mean at that point in the thread, based on the content of the first post, or that post in the context of his other posts?

[Prims]

Day 2.4 - Votals

Blitz (7) - scorri, Shinori, Boron, Manix, BT, Xinnidy, Stahlypin

Objection!! (2) - Super Serious Gal, Kay

Serious Bananas (2) - Paperblade, Proto

Fera (1) - kirsche

Kay (1) - BBM

Proto (1) - Strege

Reinfleche (1) - Bluedoom

Shinori (1) - NekoRex

Zeem (1) - Objection!!

Not Voting (5): Blitz, Fera, Reinfleche, Serious Bananas, Zeem

With 22 alive, it takes 7 to deadline lynch and 12 to hammer. You have 27 hours left in the day.

Fera and Reinfleche have been prodded. Blitz has also hit the prod timer but I assume it's due to access issues.

[Bluedoom]

@Xinnidy: I agree I didn't say much about Baldrick but that was because I wanted to sustain my vote on him and keep the pressure, whereas had I voted Rein it'd have just been another single vote people would've ignored at that time (although in hindsight we really did end up with only one wagon tl;dr) Obviously I didn't expect Baldy to modkill himself, go figure.

I disagree that my read on him is a misrep: What was the point of him saying that scum tracker/watcher point is dumb? It wasn't even a 'point' by kirsche, and that really looks like filler content. The fact that he's talking about ninja modifier(and this is wrt me so it still is relevant) comes under rolespec anyway, and as I said- if he can talk about some small point that someone said, then that means he read that someone's posts, so he should be able to give a darn read about that person, at the least.

I voted Rein yesterday since I thought since new wagons and scum reads were popping up(well D1 was mostly baldrick now), I could push for this and pressure him into posting content, but it seems no one agrees with me(and that apparently he flaked again). And we want more lynch options, so now I'll ##Unvote ##Vote: Objection Pretty good choice at this point.

Also I may have worded it badly, but when I said I had no scumreads after my summary, I meant I didn't get any other new scumreads. I still had the off reads on whoever I said I had a problem with earlier, in case it hasn't been clear to anyone. If I addressed anyone else at that point, it means I noticed something off with them.

In any case, I didn't really get the cases on Kay or Paperblade- Kay's point of Blitz wagon being dumb, while not explained, doesn't exactly warrant a vote. I suppose BBM's point on Kay is valid in that there were no votes on me when she thought I was pressured. EDIT: Cut, she's posted some content, gotta read that after this.

PB's points on SB, as I said before, are valid, but I'm not sure what to think of SB's claim and I still want to see SB's new content. Still find him scummy though. PB having no other concrete reads during D1 was valid- no one really tried hard at doing anything else and there was lots of inactivity and votes thrown here and there.

I don't think Proto is scummy as of yet although I'm kinda annoyed that he's talking about the popular lynch/ scum reads. I suppose the reads on Zeem and Shinori are ok but they're kinda... I dunno, thrown off there? What do you think of the rest of the players, Proto, do you have any new opinions on them?

I'll need to read Shinori since I haven't exactly got a good idea what's he done this game besides talking about NNR. Zeem seems meh in terms of content but I agree with Paper, Objection seems worse. I also don't get why SSG has been focusing on mostly Zeem,care to talk about others, SSG? Stoly's vote on Blitz is just meh, the vote stacks are starting to get annoying but tl;dr I can only hope he posts something else.

And finally, Xinny's vote on Blitz was unnecessary since Blitz already had 5 votes on him, and he himself agreed that we shouldn't have one single wagon this phase, so why hop on to the Blitz wagon when you could've voted me?

@Xinnidy: I can see your point about Marth, and it bugs me that he still doesn't really have anything to say about a lot of stuff that went on yesterday. I don't like that I had to prod him to actually give an opinion on the things he summarized and he still managed to avoid really talking about the Baldrick wagon although he talked about some people on it. Also, Marth, why is Strider worse than any of the other people you listed? Complains about lacking content and tells me that I'm lacking content, and that Fera is the same.

Also, do you still find Objection scummy? You were voting him for a good part of the previous phase.

What stuff would you like me to talk about? I can't keep track of everything that happens in this thread and its easy to forget some stuff, plus the general time gap between my content posts is 9-10 hours. Also you didn't need to 'prod' me- the only new read I even got from my summary was Strege; the rest of them, I had already stated, although not specifically "THEY ARE SCUMREADS", constantly that day- and I find that hypocritical of you, because if you ask me to 'try harder' at figuring out your scumreads, why couldn't you make that same consideration while reading my posts?

And YES, its hard to get more reads when people lack content. I have nothing to say about the Baldrick wagon; all of its voters (including me to an extent) were people who lacked on content badly, so I can't really get any reads on the wagoners. Whoever I mentioned in my last post who was on the wagon. you know what I think of them; So really I have nothing to say about it otherwise.

[Bluedoom]

You know the paragraph with the bolded part was supposed to go below the post of Boron's that I quoted but I'm absent-minded, sorry.

[Fera]

No excuses for inactivity except somehow passing out for 9 hours and NA LCS

Although first things first: DAMMIT BALDRICK WHY

@kirsche #369, I will admit that my first vote on SB was a mistake, trying to find at least some kind of point against someone else that wasn't Blitz, which was the main wagon at the time. Seeing SB's RVS post as his only one at the time I kinda jumped on it, forgetting the point that it was RVS in the first place.

@Manix #429, @BBM #443, I retreated on Blitz at the time because I wanted to say what I thought of the situation and I did think he was looking a little scummy at the time, but then the meta thing popped up and I didn't really know what to do with all the info I had at the time beyond posting it so I could refer to it and build on it should more info come up. More info did come up, and I compared voting Baldrick and Blitz and decided on the former being a better choice due to the number of votes at the time, so I could see Baldrick at least claim (DAMMIT BALDRICK WHY) and we could decide a lynch on a longer timeframe instead of voting on pressure of no lynch on a shorter timeframe.

Posting just this much until I scarf down food as quickly as possible in apparently a wedding that I HAVE TO GO TO WITH AN HOUR'S NOTICE ARGH WHY
more soon

[Kay]

This was about Bluedoom's first post in which he voted Blitz. Point of clarification: do you mean at that point in the thread, based on the content of the first post, or that post in the context of his other posts?

That point in the thread.

[Sunwoo]

What stuff would you like me to talk about? I can't keep track of everything that happens in this thread and its easy to forget some stuff, plus the general time gap between my content posts is 9-10 hours. Also you didn't need to 'prod' me- the only new read I even got from my summary was Strege; the rest of them, I had already stated, although not specifically "THEY ARE SCUMREADS", constantly that day- and I find that hypocritical of you, because if you ask me to 'try harder' at figuring out your scumreads, why couldn't you make that same consideration while reading my posts?

And YES, its hard to get more reads when people lack content. I have nothing to say about the Baldrick wagon; all of its voters (including me to an extent) were people who lacked on content badly, so I can't really get any reads on the wagoners. Whoever I mentioned in my last post who was on the wagon. you know what I think of them; So really I have nothing to say about it otherwise.

I know you can't keep track of everything that happens in the thread, I doubt anyone can. But the Baldrick wagon WAS a pretty big part of the later part of D1 right before its premature end. Even if you don't have definite reads, even gut feelings on any of the wagoners or stuff that you found weird about the wagon itself would have been nice.

You can call me hypocritical if you want, but you are the one who posted up a useless summary because you were "bored" and had to be asked to explain if you had any opinions on the stuff you summarized. You also did not acknowledge my statement that "asking questions helps me get reads". Would you argue that it's incorrect, and that I just asked questions and did nothing else with them?

[Strege]

No excuses for inactivity except somehow passing out for 9 hours and NA LCS

Although first things first: DAMMIT BALDRICK WHY

@kirsche #369, I will admit that my first vote on SB was a mistake, trying to find at least some kind of point against someone else that wasn't Blitz, which was the main wagon at the time. Seeing SB's RVS post as his only one at the time I kinda jumped on it, forgetting the point that it was RVS in the first place.

@Manix #429, @BBM #443, I retreated on Blitz at the time because I wanted to say what I thought of the situation and I did think he was looking a little scummy at the time, but then the meta thing popped up and I didn't really know what to do with all the info I had at the time beyond posting it so I could refer to it and build on it should more info come up. More info did come up, and I compared voting Baldrick and Blitz and decided on the former being a better choice due to the number of votes at the time, so I could see Baldrick at least claim (DAMMIT BALDRICK WHY) and we could decide a lynch on a longer timeframe instead of voting on pressure of no lynch on a shorter timeframe.

Posting just this much until I scarf down food as quickly as possible in apparently a wedding that I HAVE TO GO TO WITH AN HOUR'S NOTICE ARGH WHY

more soon

I'll say I've had a gut aversion to wagons since I heard they were bad early on, but don't just avoid a wagon because it is popular, at least on this forum. That's what it sounds like you did with Blitz at the start anyway.

What do you mean that the number of votes informed your decision between Baldrick and Blitz?

I need to reread Fera but this seems kinda scummy -- not a fan of wanting to pressure Baldrick in order to make him claim (I'm pretty sure that's what that meant).

Also have fun at the wedding! (?)

[Fera]

Food was shit, I regret the beef. Chicken was all right, highest I can give is 7/10.

Baldrick had more votes on him than Blitz and I figured someone had to vote him so some info could be garnered and we could make an informed decision :/

If the votes were even I would've put them on roughly even voting weight, could've gone either way, though Baldrick would probably be a little more vote-worthy.

[BBM]

Not really happy with Kay, because I don't think she properly addressed everything I had to say against her. She just responded about the Blitz thing and didn't really say anything about why she didn't want to vote Marth when there were no votes on him.

However, I find it really scummy how Fera first said that he didn't want to vote Blitz because of meta, and then is saying now that he didn't want to vote Blitz over SB because there was already a wagon there. What makes it worse is that he then chose to vote Baldrick BECAUSE there was a wagon on him, which seems really contradictory to me. His reason to choose to vote Baldrick, to hear his claim, is not that good because Baldrick would have (or should have instead of modkilling himself) claimed even without his vote, as there were already like 6 votes there.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Fera

Also NAMECHANGE (blame Boron) so my iso link will have to be changed

[Paperblade]

you'll always be bigbang to me

I think it's a little strange that Kay wrote up that big post when a lot of it doesn't reaaaaally seem like scumhunting?

[scorri]

I also find it odd that in her whole post dump she didn't respond to my argument for the Blitz wagon explaining why I'm on it that was in response to her calling the wagon dumb for what seemed to be largely meta reasons.

[Fera]

and then is saying now that he didn't want to vote Blitz over SB because there was already a wagon there.

uh, what

I did not say this

I only stated that Blitz was the main wagon at the time, nothing more

I did not state that my reason I didn't vote him was because of this

[Fera]

aaaand now I gotta fly for like, 6 hours or something

hooray for important events on weekends I want to sit on my ass for

[Blitz]

first of all, my entire scummy play has been so that I can find an excuse to claim (I can't use my abilities without showing it)

first of all, I had no reads on Baldrick, but I never said I didn't have any reads on any of the people not voting him

the reason I had no reads on Baldrick was cause either his not trusting the info could be a paranoid townie or a scum trying to confuse town and I couldn't decide either way

I didn't like neither Scorri's vote on it nor Proto's vote on it for that reason alone (as in the suspecting of the source of info)

both of them hardly had any other scum reads, Scorri once said she disliked me, but hardly expanded on that whereas I don't remember Proto had any other at all

my vote on Fera was a joke and not a serious one

I realized my mistake on Scorri AFTER I made the post, not before, so I diecided to keep the post anywyas

now for the claiming part, I am town mayor, and I have to use my command in thread to increase the power of my vote, but there are a few drawbacks which I am not discussing for using them

I will place (my powered up) vote after finishing playing catch up. (I will probably vote one of Scorri, Proto or SB)

[SB.]

Working on a content post right now, but with my newly found pedit powers:

Blitz: "I was acting intentionally scummy all along so I could claim."

This is pretty terrible and I don't believe it.