Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[Grace]

at this point my brain is frying hard so rambling is assured

[BBM]

Well, I know I said that I didn't want to lynch Shinori fairly recently, but the obnoxiousness of his posts saying he wasn't going to get lynched gave me a bad feeling, so I reread parts of his ISO, and I realized a few things.

Firstly, in a way, Shinori's potion kill could technically count as an unblockable kill. I mean, you can choose not to drink the potion, but if you do, there's nothing that acts at day that can prevent your death. It's a bit of a twist, but I could see Prims doing something like that.

Secondly, I reread some of the Shinori/Scorri interactions and what Scorri said about him is true. Despite sending all these people messages about her on N1 and N2, he never said much of anything about her in thread. Scorri attacked him for that, but as someone pointed out (can't remember who, and too lazy to look for it at 3:30 am), she backed off fairly quickly after the reaction test. So did a bunch of people who were pressuring him at the time, actually, which sort of gives it a scum motive that I wasn't really seeing earlier. And as Manix pointed out, it doesn't really clear someone ~that much. It would probably alleviate pressure from them for a while, but it's not a solid enough clear to really matter when it comes down to MYLO/LYLO, in comparison to roleclears. So on second thought, while I don't think the reaction test makes him scummy, I'm not labeling it as something that makes him town either, since there actually is scum motive there.

I also said earlier that Scumnori would want to use it on a scumbuddy to give them both towncred, but fsr I forgot at that point that he didn't pick the target in the first place.

[BBM]

I'm not really a fan of how often Manix says "I'M TIRED I MIGHT BE WRONG" after making posts. I'm aware it sounds kind of unsympathetic, but it feels like him distancing himself from his own arguments, which I know Scumnix likes doing. It also gives him a way to post random spec as him just "rambling".

Also I was giving him a pass earlier because I thought his role was too strong for scum, but he coasted hard on D1, D3, and D4. He said a lot of admittedly good stuff on D2, which is why I thought that Kay saying at that time that his posts were fluffy was dumb, but I feel like they kind of are now. He always posts stuff in spammy mini-sprees, but it feels that a lot of his mini-sprees are not really scumhunting, and way too many of his posts are just about him saying he has to reread somebody, that he's in the process of doing so, or just answering questions or commenting on stuff in ways that's just white noise. I'll cite posts in the morning probably.

[Grace]

so basically after most of the game not mentioning me much at all you decide to bring it up now? interesting. does seem a little random but let's see where this heads.

[BBM]

Attacking someone out of the blue when you've never said anything about them to that point is scummy only if you're sheeping other people, which I'm not, since nobody else is seriously attacking you atm.

[Grace]

yeah but it's like it just seems completely random and forced sometimes

[Prims]

Day 6.1 - MODSCENE

woah daykills

Alice was too townie to live and vanished in a puff of power items and townieness. RIP

Shadoweh - Alice Margatroid - Town Jack of All Trades - Killed Day 6

Game resumes.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Witch

[SB.]

how are we not in mylo yet

[Prims]

how are we not in mylo yet

That's funny, because you actually are!

It is possible for Town to lose the game following a mislynch today.

[Bluedoom]

Shinori vs Neko interactions seemed town cuz he didn't continue tunneling past D2 I believe, CMIIW. The tunneling until that point(ED2) was ok because Neko really wasn't doing anything either although late D2 it started to bug me cuz Neko had posted some content during the course of D2.

I suppose Scorri backing off quickly IS weird but as far as her point on him was concerned, talking to people during the night to see their reads on scorri and not at all talking about her seems like gathering info secretly, I don't think that's inherently scummy.

Either ways I think Shinori being scum would be dumb because he even spent nights giving potions to Scorri and Xinnidy with messages on them. That'd be like linking to your scumbuddies, considering he started pushing her D3, that wouldn't make sense if he was scum. He COULD be thirdd party, but scum is unlikely IMO.

[Bluedoom]

WHAT THE FUCK

HUGE CUT, HUGE CUT

[Bluedoom]

If Shadoweh was JoaT.

What the fuck was Paperblade?

[Prims]

Day 6.2 Votals

Xin'dy (4): Boron, Manix, BBM, Bluedoom (L-1!)

Not voting (5): Essbee, kirsche, Shinori, Strege, Xin'dy

The day ends in 43 hours, 10 minutes. With 9 alive, hammer is required and it takes 5 to lynch.

It is possible for Town to lose the game following a mislynch today.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Witch

[Grace]

##Unvote because lol early hammer

what

the

shit

is

going

on

[Zkirsche]

Even day kills by the looks of things.

We should have just hammered early.

[Grace]

Shinori vs Neko interactions seemed town cuz he didn't continue tunneling past D2 I believe, CMIIW. The tunneling until that point(ED2) was ok because Neko really wasn't doing anything either although late D2 it started to bug me cuz Neko had posted some content during the course of D2.

yeah he stopped tunneling but he literally flipped and said to nnr in potion talk (apparently) that he could "clear" him which is like, a 180. please tell me you see this?

[Grace]

kirsche; more looks like 3 day spread daykills because d3 on nnr and d6 just now on shadoweh. the necktie/stahlypin kill was completely unexplained though which still bothers me

[Grace]

the necktie/stahlypin kill is completely unexplained though which still bothers me

good at words, honest

[Prims]

Actually town was in MYLO from the start of the day. I just can't do math.

[SB.]

I don't even

[BBM]

I was originally going to point out all of Manix's irrelevant posts, and then I realized it would actually be easier to point out the relevant ones.

13 isn't really scumhunting but pretty relevant so fair enough. 102/104 are about Blitz trap. 125 is more on Blitz but says he'd have to reread to form a proper case on Blitz. This is kind of weird because there were only 125 posts, a good chunk of which would be RVS. 209 has some stuff on Baldrick and Strege but is mostly sheepy wrt his Baldrick vote. 243 and 298 are kind of hunting I guess, but one line. 363 is really more of a defence than scumhunting, but okay. That wraps up D1, which consists pretty much only of Baldrick and Strege, and was pretty sheepy on the Baldrick front.

417 is good, 426 is kind of hunting. 429/430 were okay, as were 432/435 (he went on a spree of actually getting around to those ISOs on D2). 526 and 529 are okay, as are 534/535/537/540. Five or six more on Blitz around there. 759 is a defence/prod against Kay, which was fair enough because his D2 wasn't that fluffy.

804 lists some reads but isn't really hunting; all stuff from D2. 859/870 starts something against Objection, but it's a really semantic argument that I don't like, based on him possibly making a scumslip due to only "supposing" that Shinori is the potion guy. In the end he states it could just be either alignment too. 887/891 push against Shinori a bit right after he suddenly gives me the potion (but he takes it back later anyways). So that was D3, which was... pretty much nothing. A kind of graspy Objection argument and a small Shinori push that he drops anyways.

1120 has some small stuff about Elie but the rest is pretty thin (argues against rolespec and then asks for more opinions from SSG). In 1287, he FINISHES READING ISOS- and then says he doesn't really think any of them are scum. 1387 is not really scumhunting as much as reasons for consolidation. So his D4 really has nothing at all. Tbf I cut out stuff where he was claiming his role (which he did very slowly and arduously) and talking about stuff there, but the majority of his posts were still useless stuff like "guys i can't do votals" or "let me get to that ISO".

He votes Kirsche in 1888 but doesn't really elaborate much. He does that in 1933/1935. 1968 attacks me a bit for something sort of dumb, though I guess I'm biased so w/e. 1974 is just sort of daring anyone to complain about his shitty gutread on me. 1979 isn't scumhunting as much as pulling up what he's said about me over the game. He has another 4-5 posts of just saying I shouldn't have pried into his role. That's his D5, which is a few posts on Kirsche and then a few on me. Better than D3/D4 but still not much there.

2037 is a bit against Shinori, and then a few more posts after that just being reactionary to Shinori's "umadbro". 2074/2077/2079 are okay on Kirsche, and 2098 gets back to Shinori. His response to my mini-case is sort of weird, and I don't really like how he chooses to attack the timing rather than the content of what I say. I know I hadn't really cited any posts at that point but ehhh. Back to Shinori in 2116. His D6 is okay so far I guess, as far as content : # of posts goes.

So let's add that up- it totals to around 50 posts. You can give him a few more here and there of me mislabeling stuff, but that still comes out to just a bit more than a 20% ratio of useful posts, which is stupidly low, even for Manix. And all that is just talking about how much white noise he has. Sometime later I'll get to how many times he fence-sits on his own arguments.

[BBM]

Holy shit that was longer than I was expecting it to be.

Anyways, I guess it being MYLO from the start makes 5/3/1/1 at the beginning of the day make more sense. We have unexplained daykills on D2, D3, and D6, so I don't think an even-day killer makes sense. If I had to guess, they might have an X amount of kills they can use in the game.

Marth, IIRC when Paperblade and I were discussing what Rein could have been (since Inventor doesn't really specify much), I said that I thought it could be a JoaT, and he said that if that was the case, town had a lot of JoaTs. So it's easily possible that both him and Shadoweh were jacks, just with him being more unorthodox.

[BBM]

tldr on that Manix wall; When he does produce content (most notably D2, and kind of D5/D6), it's for the most part pretty good. But he just has huge periods of posting while not really saying much of anything at all that I don't like.

[Grace]

too tired to respond entirely right now, but here's what you're getting

but that still comes out to just a bit more than a 20% ratio of useful posts, which is stupidly low, even for Manix.

so in other words, a meta point that isn't actually an alignment tell? i'm having a shit time irl, and i don't care what you say about all my white noise etc, but at least you can hold me accountable for if i say i'm going to do something, and then i don't, and stuff like that

Sometime later I'll get to how many times he fence-sits on his own arguments.

then bitch at shinori for doing the same damn thing and don't isolate it just to me. don't be such a hypocrite

and reality check, you've fencesat yourself, and if i wasn't so damn tired i could get all yours as well

But he just has huge periods of posting while not really saying much of anything at all that I don't like.

go check everyone else. it's funny how you mention me out of everyone else in the game, when there's easily some others (dead/alive, doesn't matter) who did the same damn thing

[Grace]

in fact riddle me this; if you were going to use my scummeta on the activity/white noise front, isn't it normally the case that I just sit around, not even really try to push much at all, or even tell the thread that I'm going to do this, that, and the other? (mind you, i'm not a good judge on my past scummeta play but it seems accurate enough)