Thousand Names Mafia Day 4

[Shin]

You guys really don't understand the "I'll post tomorrow, just got back to uni" thing!

Woah, hold on cowboys, don't be jumping the gun just yet. I've actually explained my vote on Snike, something Excellen's conveniently forgotten to mention. I am not Janus, I'm assuming that Janus is a town player, because I don't see why scum would have a role that protects a member of town and I don't see why in a 9/3/1 set up, that an ITP would have a role that weakens mafia by removing a hypothetical mafia Janus.

Prims, in one of my D2 posts I commented on why I thought Excellen was lynchable, it was after where I mention it might be his playstyle. Shinori's vote boils down to me voting his slot. Considering I've spent the last two days prepping to go back to uni, it might explain why I haven't posted quite as much. I think we're all forgetting that Snike was scum, and I voted for him. Sure, it may have been an early vote but the rest of my phase would have been some extreme bussing. I never said that Vhaltz is clear, I said I find it highly unlikely that he's scum, which considering the circumstances is pretty fair.

I've got a lot to do this morning, so I'll be back later. My wagon boils down to Excellen's case ignoring a lot of details and Shinori and LG sheeping. I'm still trying to understand in what world where helping lynch scum and removing an ITP who said themselves that they could win alongside mafia are scummy plays.

Actual reads will have to come in a couple of hours, I have classes to attend, but I really needed to point out the things that were wrong with my wagon.

[Shin]

@The Janus part, I mean to say why would I be scum with a role that protects a town player. Either Randa is the biggest jerk ever or it doesn't make sense.

[Excellen Browning]

I read your ISO and I couldn't find your reasoning for the Snike vote. Could you self quote it.

[Randa]

Shinori (2): Shin, Vhaltz

Excellen Browning (2): Executive kirsche, Eurykins

Lord Gaius (1): #HBC YOLOSWAG (1)

Shin(4): Prims, Shinori, Excellen, Lord Gaius

There are 12 hours left in phase.

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch at deadline and 7 to hammer.

Shin is at L-1.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Randa

[Excellen Browning]

Not that it matters to the lynch and hammer numbers, but I'm pretty sure there's 9 alive.

[Randa]

Whoops. That changes something's.

[Vhaltz]

Prims' case is fine but I don't like the sudden sheep by everybody under fire. The only part of the case I really liked is how Snike doesn't directly address Shin, but iirc Shin didn't really bring up any significant points on Snike beyond what I said in #137? He just disliked the fact that Snike did a huge switch on me, and Snike already addresses that issue by retroactively justifying himself. The sudden switch also happened the exact same way for kirsche so I'm skeptical of everybody bringing that up as a point against him.

This might be a kneejerk reaction but I feel like Shin's getting wagoned as town like he usually does.

Gaius' new posts don't really change my mind on him. His #410 misreps my issues with his Yolo and Shin cases by saying I'm scumreading him for townreading Excellen and scumreading Yolo/Shin because unpopular opinions. I stated that I think the Yolo/Shin scumreads cater to paranoia rather than being paranoia, specifically catering to Prims' early D2 posts where he specifically mentioned being iffy on Shin and Yolo among the people in the wagon. The reason the Excellen read is weird is that there are multiple steps needed in order to justify not only clearing them of any wrongdoing, but also townread them for it. Simultaneously there are also several steps taken to pursue targets that are more likely town by virtue of being on the wagon so it all reads like decision-first-justification-later.

His switch onto Shin is also the most potentially dishonest out of the three because Shin never waffled on the Snike wagon. I would've expected somebody scumreading Yolo as town to pressure him significantly more outside of just posting the early case too, since Yolo is clearly not giving much of a damn about the game and that'd feel grimy as shit if I were actually scumreading them.

##Unvote

##Vote Gaius

Don't know what to make of Shinori and I doubt there's going to be a consolidation wagon on him over "he isn't doing anything" because it's Shinori. I'd say I'd be fine with an Excellen lynch but it'd just be 'cause I'll find myself second guessing myself about their Snike interactions for the rest of the game otherwise. So I guess it's Gaius or go home.

[Vhaltz]

I should probably read better before I post because Gaius did post some snippets on Yolo, it doesn't really help that they're incredibly unmemorable though.

[Prims]

I don't know if I'm going to be around to see Shin's reads. I'm really really tempted to switch to Gaius because I hated his switch post too and found it odd how easily he dropped Eury when he found Mancer legit scummy. now suddenly that was a prod vote? and honestly I've just found Gaius' content scummy all day ain't gonna lie

@vhaltz the reason I consider kirsche and Shin's switches different is cuz kirsche posted like he found Snike scummy, Shin posted like he was convinced by your case.

[Vhaltz]

I still feel like his wagon position and his role speak in his favor though? and I mean I've also not been giving much of a shit about the game while voting Shinori and waiting for him to do stuff so I can get why he hasn't been super active this day phase.

I'm mostly just annoyed that I can easily see him flipping town and then I'd be exactly in the same spot as earlier in D2 in terms of finding out who scum is within Gaius/Shinori/Excellen. Is Shin's passive posting this game very different from how he posted in Shovel Knight?

[Vhaltz]

Woah, hold on cowboys, don't be jumping the gun just yet. I've actually explained my vote on Snike, something Excellen's conveniently forgotten to mention. I am not Janus, I'm assuming that Janus is a town player, because I don't see why scum would have a role that protects a member of town and I don't see why in a 9/3/1 set up, that an ITP would have a role that weakens mafia by removing a hypothetical mafia Janus.

Like, posting this from scum!Shin's POV would be weird because people have already been taking this into account since lateD1 so he'd know it's not something that's going to save him in a turbowagon situation. It reads like town!Shin going "dude, my role makes no sense as scum, wtf?". Similar stuff with the wagon deconstruction because scum!Shin wouldn't find the votes on him so unwarranted and handwaveable considering that people were giving him scummy mentions earlier in the day.

Assume I'm not going to vote Shin at deadline I guess.

[Prims]

I looked at Shovel Knight and FE DLC and thought Shin was more of a go-getter in both games, even while in the hot seat in the former.

The main reason I didn't buy the role defense is that we don't know that Janus is actually town, we don't know that Shin isn't actually Janus, we don't really know anything about that situation. It is totally plausible for the set-up to be geared toward scum wanting to off the assassin for whatever reason.

You'd be better off selling me on why Gaius is scum. granted it's very tempting to do the Bad Play Thing and just switch to Gaius to force the wagons between my two top suspects atm and let everybody else sort the day out for me, reminder that sheeping is a talent #BestTownie2015

[Prims]

or I could do that because lynching the scummy people with no Snike interactions first is probably better for gamestate. I'm gonna admit I don't have a good grasp on this game right now and voted Shin in hopes of moving a stagnated day forward and generating interactions (don't get me wrong though Shin is scummy). but it doesn't seem like I'm gonna be up for Shin's content to make a final judgment and I can't say I want the sub slots in LYLO

##Unvote

##Vote: Lord Gaius

Sorry For Staying Up Until 6 AM Again

[Vhaltz]

Shrug man, I think it's just extremely obvious that Shin is way more likely to flip town than Gaius is.

Paper's D1 was pretty underwhelming and Gaius didn't do anything D1. Then Gaius' D2 stances are weird and feel unnatural, he abuses buzzwords in several instances when it comes to calling people scummy "most of his posts relieved on WIFOM/Meta reads instead of relying on scumhunting which should be a town player's greatest pursuit" (wrt Mancer) "Already said I didn't like the waffling on the Snike wagon" (switch onto Shin) and the whole switch onto Shin feels opportunistic considering how easily he townread Eury (for no given reason) and gave up on Yolo.

And looking back his Shin case doesn't even make sense?

Shin is kind of off settling for me. Unlike Vhaltz, I'm a bit more wary of his turnaround on the read. Like, he seemed like he was still pushing Vhaltz in the post where he initially votes Snike, but later on says that the need to make it a 1v1 was enough to switch his vote. I didn't really feel that send rof urgency from Snike until Chaltz replied later on in the thread, and it seemed like an easy way for Shin to switch off a losing battle. Also I think the assassin kill role is alignment null.

How do you even get that from this?

This was the smallest Eury wall I've ever seen. We have like 5 hours and I don't see much happening other than a Snike lynch, which I'm still cool with, he hasn't said anything that makes me feel better about him. He decided to turn it into a 1vs1 against Vhaltz and hasn't really given me much conviction other than he'd rather lynch Vhaltz than himself?

That's the only Shin post that mentions the 1v1 and it's very obviously not what Gaius was talking about.

[Prims]

well if gaius is scum that wouldn't have happened without me voting shin and i take full credit for his lynch

[Blitz]

/sub, if you still need any

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

LYNCH GAIUS/SHINORI PLZ

not shin or excellen. gaius/shinori. the ones who went the entirety of d1 without voting and barely scumhunting. gaius is -2 so please provide us with a 1 2 punch. 2days play is mad obvious hence me not talking about a bunch of things that dont matter

/contribution

[Shin]

[spoiler=Why Shin voted Snike: The Movie]

First of all, are you scum Vhaltz? It worked when Mitsuki did it, I sware.

Looking at your interactions with kirsche, I think your vote extended a little bit beyond RVS. And if it didn't, why did you keep it for so long?

Whilst your latest post is an improvement over your initial reluctance to participate, I don't like how defensive you are responding to Prims and YOLO. If you're getting worked up by a mafia game, it's best to take a step back for a while. I don't want to get into a debacle about it, but it's not helping your case. I mean, the reads below the vote make some sort of sense.

Snike's actually worth bringing up, I can kinda see where Vhaltz is coming from. It's a massive flip from unsure to scum, especially since he pretty much admit's he's using Via's metaread on Vhaltz to justify it. Witholding a vote to keep one on Rapier, which still hasn't been particularly well explained, looks a lot like supporting a lynch without wanting to be directly associated with it.

##Unvote
##Vote: Snike

This may seem like a massive turn around, "lol Shin, you're scumreading your top scumread's scumread. Scumreadception.", but looking back, his list of one liner reads are incredibly shallow. Snike, how about we have some FUN.

For the record, I still think Vhaltz is pretty scummy, and I really don't think he could be scum at all with Snike.

My swap to Snike isn't because I don't consider Vhaltz scummy any more, it's because I consider Snike's approach to Vhaltz turned around massively very quickly but there was no real commitment. I never got why Snike was still voting Rapier, their reasons were really bad and it seemed like they were backing a Vhaltz lynch way more.

Snike's made this pretty forceful between himself and Vhaltz. Vhaltz's case made it sound like he was scumreading Snike, but Snike's making it like Vhaltz has to be scum based on Snike's own alignment. There's no evidence that says one of them 100% has to be scum,which are the vibes Snike has. "If I'm town, Vhaltz has to be scum, rite".

This was the smallest Eury wall I've ever seen. We have like 5 hours and I don't see much happening other than a Snike lynch, which I'm still cool with, he hasn't said anything that makes me feel better about him. He decided to turn it into a 1vs1 against Vhaltz and hasn't really given me much conviction other than he'd rather lynch Vhaltz than himself?

I'm still not sure why people consider voting scum who flipped scum is considered bad. Whilst admittedly, there's no proof that I'm not Janus other than my word, I really don't like how Prims is trying to cast doubt on me because of it. Truth be told, that's probably the reason I'm feeling off about Prims. It's true that there's no guarantees, but it reads a lot more as fear-mongering than portraying some degree of scepticism.

Shinori's reasoning still bothers me massively, he's purely looking at the vote I made and agreeing with the plethora of questionable points against me. I didn't vote the slot because it was inactive, I voted it because it was detached from the game and when it did post there was no content. I even said that I appreciated that Shinori hadn't had a chance to post yet.

Vhaltz is totally right, Lord Gaius seems to have completely misinterpreted my case. I didn't like the fact that Snike had declared it a 1vs1 between him and Vhaltz, I'm not the one who suggested it. Man, it's like I'm gay for Vhaltz or something. I'm just finding it incredibly unlikely that he was scum alongside Snike. I'm not really defending him, it's not like everyone who doesn't think he's town is scum, but I just think from what I've seen that scum!Vhaltz would have to be playing major mindgames.

Truth be told, I don't like either of Lord Gaius or Shinori, especially with their latest content. Whilst this could entirely be mistaken for "Wow Shin be voting people for voting him" both of them have really questionable votes. I can appreciate suspicion from Prims and Eury,

I would prefer a Shinori lynch to Gaius, I don't really have much more to add to it other than the fact Gaius sheeped massively and didn't read the post right.

[Shin]

I need to go out to buy TROUSERS, but I'd like to point out Excellen's voteflopping. I'm not entirely sure why he voted me in the first place, faking activity is a really funny way of saying that I've been busy.

[Zkirsche]

I am hyper unmotivated atm sorry.

Would rather lynch Gaius than Shinori. My gut likes Shinori this game fsr and Gaius defended Excellen so prime scumbuddy potential right there.

[Zkirsche]

We should: still lynch Excellen though.

[Vhaltz]

There's like, 4 hours left I think. Wagons are 3/3 for Shin and Gaius so people should hurry up and consolidate before we end up with no lynch.

[Eurykins]

Okay, so SF decided to eat my post (again) like a jerkface. :/

Looking at those open for being lynched today (assuming that Excellen is NOT an option, due to only Kirsche and I really supporting/hard pushing for it currently):

LG >> Shin >>> Shinori (I still don't fully buy this slot as being scum, and there's very little chance I'd wind up voting/supporting this wagon today. :/)

Also, a side thought: If LG/Shinori slots both flip town (I don't think this is a high chance tho), I wouldn't put Vhaltz/Shin/Snike(dead) scum team out of the picture/possibility. It would explain the defenses, interactions, and ultimately the D1 "gambit"/1v1 that occurred, along with certain interactions (IE. Shin 'townclearing' Vhaltz almost instantly ED2).

But we'll save those thoughts and others for the later incoming day phase once this one concludes.

[Eurykins]

*And because I'm dumb and forgot to vote swapperino, I need to post again. GG me.

##Unvote

##Vote: Lord Gaius

[Vhaltz]

Decided to do actual votals since I missed Excellen being at 2 with kirsche/Eury before

Lord Gaius (4): #HBC YOLOSWAG, Vhaltz, Prims, Eury
Shin(3): Shinori, Excellen, Lord Gaius

Shinori (1): Shin
Excellen Browning (1): kirsche

There are 3 hours 30 minutes left in phase.

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch at deadline and 7 to hammer.