Thousand Names Mafia Day 4

[Zkirsche]

Governor is a pretty balsy claim though? If we tell her to prove it she can't and it's all over.

[Eurykins]

Goddamn it. Internet has been lagging to high hell and I've lost several more posts trying to get this one post out. Ready to kill some internet providers soon. >8[

((I've also been failing to connect to SF forums quite a few times, so there's that as well... ))

OKAY, gotta re-write this shizz 'cause stuff is amazing.

Vhaltz's ISO:

> ED1: I don't really have an issue with his notions wrt Excellen's Mafia Gameplay comments. But I think the whole miller/baker thing was sort of silly and weird to pick at?

> Snike case/Vote and other shizz:

~ The case/vote on Snike is pretty decent, so no complaints there.

~ I do question the townread on PB though, based around "whiteknighting" himself.

> Kinda feel that D1 responses were a bit more prickly/minorly salty (wrt a prior game) than maybe necessary? But on the other hand, he pushes people to consider/re-look at his vote(s)/case(s) (especially surrounding Snike) to question their notions against him, which I don't feel a scumbuddy would necessarily do to another scum buddy who isn't already in hot water (unless he was THAT determined to like, avoid garnering more votes on his wagon). Specifically this post feels more town-esque than coming from scum, imo.

> Snike initiating the 1v1 with Vhaltz was either to see if he could pull down a townie with him (since both had semi-prominent wagons in D1), or a very high risk gambit. Not sure if PB's post/reaction was legitimate or part of the possible gambit.

> However, this is once again like, serious bussing of a scumbuddy in terms of interactions if Vhaltz flips town. Also defends against Shin's wagon, and as scum I could see him having easily supported the Shin wagon instead of pushing for LG's one.

> I do not agree, though, with the notion here that scum!YOLO wouldn't drive a counter-wagon to Excellen and 'post so much words/effort'. For one, he'd KNOW (as scum) that Excellen WOULD flip town, and especially with how much Kirsche and I were gunning for him, it wouldn't be hard to create that distance from the Excellen wagon and aim to go for the next highest lynch priority (to line up incoming day phase lynches), especially with Shinori killed last night phase in order to prevent anyone else from being cleared. (And I mean, I've wall posted as both scum AND town, so having lots of words/"effort" can come from either alignment.)

In terms of Scum buddies interactions:

> Snike: Chooses to stay off of the Vhaltz wagon, and then kinda relies on Via's notion of Vhaltz's meta for some reads here? But then flipped things around later after Rapier's death and proceeds to 1v1 Vhaltz.

> PB (when he was still playing) openly objects to the Vhaltz wagon/cases, and otherwise defends him for as long as he's in the game. LG subbing in - he pretty much opts for a townread on Vhaltz quickly as well, and doesn't say much else wrt Vhaltz.

All in all:

There's not a lot of conflict in terms of interactions with the flipped scum, in the sense that Snike wagon/vote was done well by Vhaltz, as well as the LG lynch. While I may not agree with some of the notions in his posts (as pointed out above), I'm not feeling like he'll be the remaining scum (at least not above my prior post wrt YOLO), and I'm hoping that the 1v1 Snike pulled wasn't a true gambit and giving Vhaltz a "get out of jail free" card in terms of reading him. :/ (IMO, if Vhaltz flips as the remaining scum this game, he's damn well worth labeling as like, "SB 2.0" 'cause that's some major scum buddy bussing happening throughout his ISO.)

Moving onto Kirsche's ISO now.

((Also finding it weird that YOLO literally has no other considerations/thoughts aside from voting for me and then saying nothing...? Like, tunneling's cool and all, but when the game boils down to what it is now (not quite yet *YLO, but getting pretty damn close to it), I find the lack of effort a bit odd?))

[Vhaltz]

YOLO voting is not a town thing to do

YOLO voting is bad

Remember this!

[Vhaltz]

I'm here kind of, don't really have much to say though. I'd request an extension if it didn't mean lynch rules changing weirdly and maybe not getting a lynch with 3 people.

I guess kirsche could claim and I can claim afterwards, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't really get us anywhere.

[Eurykins]

Mkay, this will the last ISO I'm doing today (as I do not see Shin as a plausible slot to be scum at this point).

Kirsche's ISO

> I don't see his ED1 (ish) casing on Vhaltz as being half bad- same with his Snike vote.

> The way he keeps prompting Bossanova and pushes his scum reads in terms of pressure seems good, and seems to spell much more #effort in town-side spectrum than scum. He also applies a good amount of questions/pressure towards PB + Snike as well, which makes me feel like he's less inclined to being their scum buddy.

> Does a good job of counterpointing cases (especially here wrt Excellen's casing of him), and this explains his follow-up with aiming for Excellen come D2, And for as much as he tunnels on Excellen, he actually does a lot of prompting of "What do you think of my case(s)/points on you, Excellen?" and "Excellen: who is scum?" (so he legit feels as though he wants to garner a larger conversation, as opposed to just vote dropping and just saying, "I want Excellen dead, kthxbai".

> The only issue I kinda had with Kirsche slot was D3, in terms of him not really saying a whole lot at all. Don't get me wrong- I was very supportive of the Excellen lynch due to the circumstances/interactions with scum his slot had (and partially due to the way he was playing/reacting/etc.), but would've liked more thoughts to come out and play that day phase.

> I'm okay with most of this post, but I do have one question: Why would scum!YOLO not care to make a case against me (a townie), whilest defending someone who flipped town (Excellen) despite his horrid in-game associations with flipped scum members? Secondly, I was second on priority behind Excellen, so shoving a vote my way would be, from my PoV, an easy way to push a mislynch forward. I'd be more curious as to why he was reading Excellen as town as he was, because according to his post/tl;dr of his read on Excellen: "excellen started off green townie to me to questionable back to pretty logical plus shes voting eury" ("She was okay, but then she did stuff that didn't make sense, but then it was ok logic + Eury vote" [i have an odd feeling that this, above most other things Excellen chose to do, is what got YOLO viewing Excellen as a townie/good in his books]).

Looking at Scum interactions:

> Snike: Speaks of minor suspect of Kirsche early on (but comments that he'd only look at his slot after Rapier case/interest was bypassed), but otherwise doesn't really say much else about Kirsche (As far as I can see).

> PB/LG: PB kinda ignores Kirsche for the most part? (I don't see much at all in terms of interactions with him.) LG also seconds this for the most part, and the only thing he comments on is the Excellen tunneling (and asking for more information from Kirsche).

All in all:

If I were to read Kirsche purely off of his own gameplay, I feel as though he has a much higher chance of flipping town than scum, given his effort, his pushes/interactions with people, and his overall contributions to the game.

However, looking at the interactions, there is some reason to eye his slot with mild speculation, given that he almost seems to not exist to both slots that have flipped scum thus far. Either he was unmemorable enough to not be mentioned (which I didn't exactly get from the feel of his D1/D2 posts?), or there is the possibility that there was a great amount of distancing/disassociation happening between the scum parties, which would have caused them to not mention him at all in their reads/thoughts/cases/etc.

In the end though, looking at the 3 cases/ISO's (Vhaltz/YOLO/Kirsche), he is definitely not the top priority for me, though I admit it is difficult to discern who is lower down the priority between himself and Vhaltz.

[Eurykins]

So this will probably be my last post for this day phase, as I have work from 4pm-9pm tonight (and I believe the phase will end around 7pm or so CST [where I am], according to the last time update posted), so I will NOT be around for deadline.

I WILL be online for another hour or so before I have to head off to work though, so if there is anything else that needs to be said/done during that time frame, then I'd prefer it can be done. Otherwise, I'm pretty much done in terms of contributions/thoughts.

>> Priorities for today:

YOLO > Vhaltz ~ Kirsche

##Vote: YOLO

**This should be vote #3 on him, and according to Randa, 3 votes are needed for lynch/ 4 to hammer this day phase.

Also, if the whole, "Testing the Governor claim" thing is legit, and/or the group/majority of the players still alive around me wish me to do so, I will. But I need to know BEFORE I go into work in order to send things through, and do NOT expect an actual response (unless I can somehow manage to phone-post it, which will be difficult 'cause the internet/connection around work sucks pretty bad and I will have 0 breaks to do shizz) during that time if you guys holler at me to do so after I leave.

[Zkirsche]

I guess i just don't see it coming from scum. I suppose you could argue that Excellen would have been lynched regardless of what he said so he was just defending a townie, but it wasn't the first time he said he was ok with Excellen IIRC so it made sense chronologically. It'd be easier for scum to go with the flow that write a ginormous wall about why everyone's top scumread is actually town.

Reading the post gave me the impression that he genuinely thought town was going the wrong way and we'd have better results lynching you. I don't see why he's continuing to go after you now that you're confirmed town as scum, you'd be more careful as scum.

[Vhaltz]

I don't see why he's continuing to go after you now that you're confirmed town as scum, you'd be more careful as scum.

This is the kind of reaction he was aiming for with those posts imo. If he had enough time to read through my D4 post and question the legitimacy of my case you'd think he'd have read the first post of D4 from his top scumread, and spend a minute or two more to write out more than one line to defend himself and push his case.

[Vhaltz]

I don't see why he's continuing to go after you now that you're confirmed town as scum, you'd be more careful as scum.

This is the kind of reaction he was aiming for with those posts imo. If he had enough time to read through my D4 post and question the legitimacy of my case you'd think he'd have read the first post of D4 from his top scumread, and spend a minute or two more to write out more than one line to defend himself and push his case.

[Refa]

3 hours and 22 minutes right

Edited June 23, 2015 by Refa

[Randa]

so SF is being kinda flakey today so im gonna be lenient on the deadline, just stop posting around 9 est or 3.5 hours from this post.

[Randa]

Yolo has been lynched.

Dear YOLO you are Khotaba, the Khandari Godfather

And with that the rebellion has been stamped out. I'll do a post game whenever I find the time or the site stops being flakey.

[Prims]

good job town

while the shin/eury dynamic was probably vital to balance the set-up really didn't need a lyncher let alone one so underpowered. idk why people like lynchers anyway they're even dumber than vivors

[ZoesMad]

I just wanna stop rolling scum tbh. I think the game was pretty well balanced.

[Prims]

scum got kinda fucked D1 because this playerlist was pretty good and all the obvious mislynch targets weren't around enough to make cases on, rapier getting vigged just sealed the deal. then it turned out the two easiest mislynches were actually the power roles

also lol i was like "snike is a good player" to yolo before the game started then snike got lynched as his buddy D1 RIP. i never brought it up but a heavy factor to snike being my second main scumread D1 was just that i expected him to go harder as town given this was just after seeing him in AM/PM2.

i'm kind of burnt out on mafia, had a hard time getting concrete reads this game. sorry shinori for screwing over your scan. was really surprised people talked about suspecting bossa D2 because context made his shot on rapier very obvtown once snike flipped. shout out to shin and vhaltz who played pretty well, and kirsche had a good day 1.

though @ vhaltz i'm serious that i think it would've been the pro-town thing to do to vote me when you left ED1. don't know why people are so conservative w votes

but gg people

[Grace]

[17/06/2015 6:07:35 PM] Manix: that moment when shinori is more on point than the rest of the town and not having read all of the game

[Percivalé]

.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Quote

[Prims]

to be fair, Shinori's read on yolo was the one actual salt-fueled read in this game.

[BBM]

it was kind of a bad move to claim when you were pretty sure your target was town but your role sucked so SHRUG

it also screwed over mafia because shin/eury became obvtown and they were both lynchable

Shinori, your attitude sucked this game. You subbed in; it's your job to read the thread, especially considering that this was by no means a large game thread. If you don't want to read up, fine, but then don't blame other people and yell at them for not giving you a summary. You got hooked as cop and that sucked too but that doesn't mean you just throw your hands up and quit.

[Percivalé]

well there was literally no way i could have won anyway, shin probably wouldn't have gotten lynched and if he was going to he would have claimed and people would know of my existence, or he would have gotten lynched and then my existence would have been pretty much modconfirmed. mafia got fucked over early after the rapier shot so even if i DID want to joint with mafia that probably wouldn't have been an option either. and i'm pretty sure eury technically had a lynchproof too. and eury hates itps and was yelling for my death the entire time after i claimed. i was fucked no matter what i did and i knew it so i just yolo'd

plus shin's role implied i was more powerful than i really was so either way he (or someone at least) would probably have been convinced i was lying about just being a shitty lyncher because lol rolespec

Edited June 24, 2015 by Quote

[BBM]

The lynch target having a governor was super lame; you would basically have had to get her lynched twice and if she claimed as janus then shin would probably claim to back her up and she wouldn't even be lynched once. Still, not claiming and having a 0.00001% chance would have been better than claiming and having a 0% chance.

you needed to be like a 1x assassin who lost if you misfired or something

[Percivalé]

i love quoting my posts instead of editing them

also never mind i don't wanna talk about this anymore gg town

Edited June 24, 2015 by Quote

[Randa]

So not defending the role, because I was very poorly done I will continue to admit that, but in my defense most of the problems with the role came from balance changes and I messed up and forgot about the viability of you winning. I have a qt that explains it in depth that ill post tomorrow.

[Prims]

Overall this was still much more balanced than I expected a game with "I have been convinced by my checkers not to include a hidden" in the OP to be

[Percivalé]

i kinda wanna know what the hidden was