ZemZem Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/18/charleston-church-shooting/28911595/ Last night, a gunman entered a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina and killed nine people inside. He was caught this morning in North Carolina. The article above states all the information. This is depressing news. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I came across this when browsing twitter this morning. Its truly terrible when you find that you can't feel safe even within the walls of church. And there's another thing to add to the list of places to be wary. Purely, utterly despicable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I've heared about it in the news and it really depressed me. Unfortunately it's not the first time that a tragedy like this happens in a place, no one would expect it. Idk, how many rampages in American schools happened in the past years. I know this comparison might be a little bit unfitting, but it shows that no place is safe anymore. Edited June 18, 2015 by Mister CatTeaDawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 My prayers go out to the families and friends this affects.. It's really tragic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 So, Wednesday evening we've had this really horrible, disgusting case of a 21 year old gunman, identified as Dylan Storm Roof, opening fire at a historically black church on the city of Charleston, S.C., killing nine1. ALL of the victims were black - six women and two men. The criminal (more like a terrorist) was arrested in Shelby, N.C. So, what bugs me more about this case is that Charleston's police chief called the attack a hate crime. I can't imagine the turmoil this would cause if a Muslim person killed 9 people that were praying - he would be INSTANTLY labeled as a terrorist. Worse, Dylan's profile is clearly one of a white supremacist, with his profile picture2 sporting two flags - Apartheid-era South Africa and Rhodesia, which leads us to the conclusion that it was all premeditated. Double standards? White privilege? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meowcakes Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) it would carry more meaning if the media would just call it "white terrorism" Edited June 18, 2015 by meowcakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I have to admit, I wasn't aware of (or possibly forgot) the distinction between hate crime and terrorism in the first place, so I was initially a little confused about the significance. Upon consulting the internet, I think you're in the right. Something else of note is the historical context: that it's the anniversary of a planned slave revolt, and that the attacked church was burned down in the aftermath of the failed revolt. Edited June 18, 2015 by Severlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) This incident was indeed awful, and I think the manager of the store I work at is related to one of the victims. It was mentioned today that he left to deal with a family tragedy that occurred on the same day, and the shooting was brought up right after. But I hate that every time some blacks are killed, it's called a hate crime. Sure, some times a black is targeted simply because, but NOT ALWAYS. The kid was a stupidhead whose stupidhead father gave him the gun for his birthday, and the kid had been in trouble with the law before. Obviously that was going to lead to more trouble. It had nothing to do with race. I heard this all from the radio recently and my stepdad told me the same thing later on. He's pretty damn smart about this political stuff too, he's been educating me lately, kinda. Don't believe anyone that says this was a hate crime. It wasn't. Also, nobody ever calls it a hate crime if it's a bunch of white people getting killed! Yet blacks can be just as racist against white people. I should know, because guess who I, a white girl, was bullied by growing up? Black kids. No white kids ever teased or bullied me. Only the black ones did, and it turned me racist for a period of time. Thankfully, I changed my mindset. Edited June 18, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Are hate crimes and terrorism mutually exclusive terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 This incident was indeed awful, and I think the manager of the store I work at is related to one of the victims. It was mentioned today that he left to deal with a family tragedy that occurred on the same day, and the shooting was brought up right after. But I hate that every time some blacks are killed, it's called a hate crime. Sure, some times a black is targeted simply because, but NOT ALWAYS. The kid was a stupidhead whose stupidhead father gave him the gun for his birthday, and the kid had been in trouble with the law before. Obviously that was going to lead to more trouble. It had nothing to do with race. I heard this all from the radio recently and my stepdad told me the same thing later on. He's pretty damn smart about this political stuff too, he's been educating me lately, kinda. Don't believe anyone that says this was a hate crime. It wasn't. Also, nobody ever calls it a hate crime if it's a bunch of white people getting killed! Yet blacks can be just as racist against white people. I should know, because guess who I, a white girl, was bullied by growing up? Black kids. No white kids ever teased or bullied me. Only the black ones did, and it turned me racist for a period of time. Thankfully, I changed my mindset. Were it not for the Rhodesian and South African flags, it would be debatable whether the attack was motivated by racial characteristics. It's pretty clear he murdered them for their race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) This incident was indeed awful, and I think the manager of the store I work at is related to one of the victims. It was mentioned today that he left to deal with a family tragedy that occurred on the same day, and the shooting was brought up right after. But I hate that every time some blacks are killed, it's called a hate crime. Sure, some times a black is targeted simply because, but NOT ALWAYS. The kid was a stupidhead whose stupidhead father gave him the gun for his birthday, and the kid had been in trouble with the law before. Obviously that was going to lead to more trouble. It had nothing to do with race. I heard this all from the radio recently and my stepdad told me the same thing later on. He's pretty damn smart about this political stuff too, he's been educating me lately, kinda. Don't believe anyone that says this was a hate crime. It wasn't. Also, nobody ever calls it a hate crime if it's a bunch of white people getting killed! Yet blacks can be just as racist against white people. I should know, because guess who I, a white girl, was bullied by growing up? Black kids. No white kids ever teased or bullied me. Only the black ones did, and it turned me racist for a period of time. Thankfully, I changed my mindset. The murderer had pictures with the flag of the literal racist State of Rhodesia and the literal racist State of South Africa before 1994. If THAT is not a hate crime and he's not racist, I don't know what or who is. It had everything to do with race. If some black guy went and killed a dozen white people just because they were white, then yeah, it would also be a hate crime, specially if they found in his facebook stuff like "I hate whites. Kill the whites" or whatever. About your last paragraph, anecdotal evidence and all. There are surely plenty of black kids who are bullied by white kids, and no kids from other ethnicity just like plenty of people from any ethnicity being bullied by people from other ethnicity. Your double standard is pretty noticeable. "This guy who had racist flags and started a shooting in a place where everyone was black was not a racist, but those black kids that bullied me were". You can't see any contradiction in that? That said, I think that arguing semantics is not that important. Call it hate crime, call it a terrorist attack, it doesn't make much difference, what happened was absolutely disgusting and this man is hopefully rotting in Jail for the rest of his life. Punishing him and preventing absolutely terrible events like this from happening is way more important than deciding what to call it. Discussing what to DO in order to prevent stuff like this from happening is what authorities should and hopefully will do. Edited June 19, 2015 by Nobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The kid also had past drug issues, which is what he was arrested for several months before this. Then his dad got him the gun, and then this happened. Maybe he did hate blacks, but I still don't think it was entirely a hate crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I mean, yeah, it's possible it was a crime of passion, no one's disputing that. SOMETHING had to motivate him to kill these people. But it's naive to assume that the killings were not at least probably motivated in large part by race. Edited June 19, 2015 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Statistically, the least trusted people are always those that look the most different. This harkens back to the Ugly Duckling fairytale. If you're white, you distrust blacks, and vice versa. You're more likely to trust an Asian than a black person simply because the asian looks like you, just with different facial features. The best way to remove this distrust is peaceable mingling with those of different races and ethnicities. Was he a white supremacist? Possibly. Well, probably, based on all the evidence. The real question we should ask is why? Is it because blacks are bad? Of course not. Is it because he thought all blacks were bad? More likely. I mean, we all have that one racist grandparent, uncle, etc who rants about how much better the days were when 'the coloreds didn't mingle with regular folk'. Perhaps this guy was raised in a family setting like that. Frankly, I found college and Job Corps to be the best way to get rid of distrust for people of other races, whether it be black, asian, etc. Having to work on a class project with other intelligent people of all manner of backgrounds helped me formulate this idea that we're not all that different. That's really all this kid was probably missing, and it's awful it had to come down to a violent outburst like this. Bad parenting is the cause of many ills in our modern-day society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) it turned me racist for a period of time. Thankfully, I changed my mindset. Apparently not. Edited June 19, 2015 by Defeatist Elitist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This incident was indeed awful, and I think the manager of the store I work at is related to one of the victims. It was mentioned today that he left to deal with a family tragedy that occurred on the same day, and the shooting was brought up right after. But I hate that every time some blacks are killed, it's called a hate crime. Sure, some times a black is targeted simply because, but NOT ALWAYS. The kid was a stupidhead whose stupidhead father gave him the gun for his birthday, and the kid had been in trouble with the law before. Obviously that was going to lead to more trouble. It had nothing to do with race. I heard this all from the radio recently and my stepdad told me the same thing later on. He's pretty damn smart about this political stuff too, he's been educating me lately, kinda. Don't believe anyone that says this was a hate crime. It wasn't. Also, nobody ever calls it a hate crime if it's a bunch of white people getting killed! Yet blacks can be just as racist against white people. I should know, because guess who I, a white girl, was bullied by growing up? Black kids. No white kids ever teased or bullied me. Only the black ones did, and it turned me racist for a period of time. Thankfully, I changed my mindset. Ana, your job is to read the article from the newly-merged first post. Then, keep the "BUT WHY NOT WHITE PEOPLE" out of here. This is not the topic for it, and it is extremely insensitive. If you feel so very strongly about it, start another topic in Serious Discussion. I mean, yeah, it's possible it was a crime of passion, no one's disputing that. SOMETHING had to motivate him to kill these people. But it's naive to assume that the killings were not at least probably motivated in large part by race. Given what I've read, I'm pretty sure this was racially motivated. --- This is an awful situation, and my heart goes out to the families that were affected. . .including the extended church one. One of the victims was the pastor of the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 For the record: the man has admitted, outright, that he did this because they were black and they were doing things he didn't like black people doing. That is, almost comically so, the very definition of a hate crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 For the record: the man has admitted, outright, that he did this because they were black and they were doing things he didn't like black people doing. That is, almost comically so, the very definition of a hate crime. Which is disturbing to me since he took out his anger and frustration due to the actions of thugs and delinquents on innocent people in prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is just too foul to contemplate. The fact that the media yet again showcases this guy as some sort of "troubled child" type thing makes me fucking vomit. This is a hate crime. An act of terror. Its vile. How can a person walk into a place of worship where he was welcomed with open arms and do this? Things like this make me not want to live in this nation anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Welcome, friends, to the MSM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) As much as I am worried and praying to the families and the community itself, I'm also concerned about what backlash may follow up this case. Given media portayals, its only going to lead to more and more outrage from Black America. Then we'd be takin further steps into the wrong direction of the issue, as a whole, to the point that it'll eventually become irrelevant. That is, of course, assuming it's not already going down that way Edited June 19, 2015 by Lord HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 As much as I am worried and praying to the families and the community itself, I'm valso concerned about what backlash may follow up this case. Given media portayals, its only going to lead to more and more outrage from Black America. Then we'd be takin further steps into the wrong direction of the issue, as a whole, to the point that it'll eventually become irrelevant. That is, of course, assuming it's not already going down that way Right man? Fuck this guy, not for what he did, but for the inevitable response from Black America™. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Right man? Fuck this guy, not for what he did, but for the inevitable response from Black America™. I already expressed my discontent with what he did. Not sure what you're trying to imply with my words here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Of course Black America™ is gonna be fucking pissed. How many african-american young men got shot by the police after doing way less than that shithead did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Of course Black America™ is gonna be fucking pissed. How many african-american young men got shot by the police after doing way less than that shithead did? That. . .is going to be a hell of a subject, because there's a power dynamic when it's police vs. civilian. The shooter in this case was a civilian (IIRC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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