General US Politics

[Sunwoo]

Every side, every faction has its extremists. Every "group" has horrible people somewhere, that's just a fact of life. I'm kind of surprised that more people don't seem to realize this, honestly.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Sunwoo

[blah the Prussian]

Ever heard of the horseshoe theory?

But horseshoe theory refers to Stalinists and Nazis having similar beliefs. Both Alt righters and SJWs would be more towards the opposite extremes of the horseshoe.

[Tryhard]

But horseshoe theory refers to Stalinists and Nazis having similar beliefs. Both Alt righters and SJWs would be more towards the opposite extremes of the horseshoe.

I would say that they still have authoritarian tendencies, which I do despise more than the dichotomy between left and right. Edited November 11, 2016 by Tryhard

[blah the Prussian]

I would say that they still have authoritarian tendencies, which I do despise more than the dichotomy between left and right.

You're not wrong, but it's not the horseshoe theory. Still, though, I hate the supposed dichotomy between left and right with an absolute passion. Generally speaking, though, I'd say that the alt-right are distinguishable from radical SJWs in that they only whine when you call them racist; they don't want to ban that. Then again, I think SJWs are misguided while the Alt right are outright wrong, so it evens out.

[Tolvir]

right, but do you think it should be that way? is that a desirable society? is there something wrong with wanting to live in a society where people don't need to resort to violence to solve problems?

No there is nothing wrong with that, and I think most people would love to live in that society.

But that is the problem. That society is a dream. A fairy tail. It might as well be in a children's book, because reality is Humans love confrontation, they love violence, they love war. Maybe not an individual, but as a group, as the race called humans? We are evil. Having a gun is just the harsh reality of this world. You will have to defend yourself sometimes. There are times that a situation can be diffused with diplomacy, but when it can't you want you will want something to defend yourself with, because otherwise you likely won't survive. It's the harsh situation of the world. We can't go around and try and be peaceful with everyone.

Have you noticed no one has tried to negotiate with isis. Try to diffuse the situation peacefully? Because it can't. No matter how many olive branches you extend, that group is looking for violence, and will find a way to do it in any way they can.

So yes, the desirable society is one of peace and harmony, but as long as we live on planet earth with a race called humans, that day will never come.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Tolvir

[Irysa]

I think you may have missed the context of that quote, considering it was responding to him telling people that he has a gun to deal with bigots rather than whether humanity is defined by conflict.

Complete peace and harmony might not be realistic, but is it seriously that unrealistic to expect most people (at least in liberal democracies) not to perpetuate racist attitudes? I don't see it as any more unrealistic than many other ingrained regressive things we've managed to progress past. To throw our hands up in the air and say "hey man it's just human nature, we can't do anything about it" at best will see us stagnate, and at worst see us potentially regress from what we've achieved. We don't have to shrug our shoulders at crap like that just because it happens, we can do something about it. This isn't curing cancer or achieving world peace man.

Not tolerating bad behaviour doesn't mean there's a lack of acknowledgement of it's existance, it's a stand against it to limit, prevent, and eliminate to whatever degrees possible.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Irysa

[Tolvir]

I think you may have missed the context of that quote, considering it was responding to him telling people that he has a gun to deal with bigots rather than whether humanity is defined by conflict.

Complete peace and harmony might not be realistic, but is it seriously that unrealistic to expect most people not to perpetuate racist attitudes? I don't see it as any more unrealistic than many other ingrained regressive things we've managed to progress past. To throw our hands up in the air and say "hey man it's just human nature, we can't do anything about it" at best will see us stagnate, and at worst see us potentially regress from what we've achieved. We don't have to shrug our shoulders at crap like that just because it happens, we can do something about it. This isn't curing cancer or achieving world peace man.

In a way you misunderstood his point. He isn't saying that gun is there to deal with bigots. It is there to deal with people that would wish to do him harm, which is completely reasonable.

And with what I said, I will admit I left out my point here, which makes it easily misunderstood. My point isn't world peace or anything, my point is that there is always going to be that one individual that harms someone or tries to do something bad. So being prepared for that, in his case owning a gun, is completely reasonable. It isn't so much about trying to resort to violence first, as it is being able to defend yourself from those that won't. It's no different than a club having a bouncer, a celebrity having a body guard, or a shop owner having a security camera. Someone, somewhere is going to get the bright idea of acting like a total dick, and you want to be prepared for it.

So sure, not thinking everyone is out to get you is a good thing, and to quit and say human nature is wrong too, but to not be prepared for that one asshole isn't going to help either.

Not sure if this is what you were looking for. Tired so my thoughts are scrambled.

[Irysa]

Yeah uh

I was targeted by anti-semites which is the only form of discrimination that is acceptable on some level. Being "anti-Israel" or "anti-Zionist" in today's era is a façade for hating Jews but because it's Zionism/Israel, it's objectively OK. You want to play the oppression game? I basically trump you all by being a Jew.

​Here's the difference. I don't cry about how I need special protection and how you are all terrible people for not giving it to me. I simply protect myself with a gun.

He's decrying people who think we shouldn't tolerate bigoted attitudes and behaviour and implying that because he can shoot bigots if they attack him he's fine with it. I was trying to press him to confirm whether or not he really thinks that such a state of affairs is okay. If so, well, not much to discuss at that point, if no, then what's so transgressive about saying it's not okay? If his beef is with "state violence", then what about just general social movements against such things?

Basically, what the heck is objectionable about wanting people not to be assholes to each other?

EDIT: I mean seriously, prejudice isn't just a problem with regard to violence...people's livelihoods can be assaulted indirectly via discrimination too.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Irysa

[Anacybele]

http://louderwithcrowder.com/california-anti-trump-rioting/

​It's almost as if you endlessly call people bigots and racists, they're going to get fed up and turn on you. In the absence of evidence of racism, Ana must clearly be racist.

I'm backing Ana on this one. You guys are kinda unbelievable.

And hell just froze over.

Seriously, I never thought I'd see you defending me. We always kinda took opposite sides in the past, so to speak. But thanks, I really appreciate this.

I would've looked for the article last night, I swear, but it was really late here and I was tired and feeling miserable and just wanted to go to bed...

[shadowofchaos]

It's still pretty appalling that you have mindset of what is and isn't American sounding with names and use that as a basis for questioning the legitimacy of someone's birth in a certain location.

I'm the opposite when it comes to people's situations.

People think my name is "Ray" and just pass me off as born in the US. I'm a naturalized citizen. While my cousins have same situation that Sunwoo and others in this thread.

Edited November 11, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

Whether it was wrong or not, I certainly never intended to offend anyone or upset anyone. I wouldn't ever do that on purpose. You guys know I have this problem, where I unknowingly say the wrong thing like that. I try my damndest not to, but there are just still going to be times where I have zero clue that what I'm saying is problematic and think it's perfectly fine. I feel bad that this happens, I honestly do, because I don't want to be thought of as a bad person.

Still, apologies. I feel better now that I've gotten a good night sleep and time to think over what I've said.

[shadowofchaos]

That's the thing. You not intending it to be offending doesn't excuse it. Ignorance is something that can be fixed.

Sometimes, you are so sure of your views you never leave any room for others. It's not the kind of mindset you should have posting in the forum "Serious Discussion".

It's like when you posted in a unit evaluation thread for Lunatic Mode advocating Frederick in Awakening despite never playing it. Not expecting to get ripped apart without being aware of the subject is pretty out there.

Edited November 11, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

That's the thing. You not intending it to be offending doesn't excuse it. Ignorance is something that can be fixed.

Sometimes, you are so sure of your views you never leave any room for others. It's not the kind of mindset you should have posting in the forum "Serious Discussion".

It's like when you posted in a unit evaluation thread for Lunatic Mode advocating Frederick in Awakening despite never playing it. Not expecting to get ripped apart without being aware of the subject is pretty out there.

Well this "ignorance" can't be fixed for me. I've tried to fix it, believe me. But when you have a disorder that makes it harder to comprehend what's wrong to say and what isn't, that just doesn't happen. And it's not like you can just cure me.

Maybe so, but have you ever been so sure of something that you just can't possibly be wrong, only to have someone suddenly debunk this later? It kind of hurts, honestly. I mean, you were so positive you were right! Only to find out you weren't. What a big disappointment.

I don't remember ever doing that. If I did, I have no idea why, as that's a pretty stupid thing to do.

[shadowofchaos]

Then you shouldn't accuse people of bullying. When you participate in a thread in Serious Discussion of conflicting views, you agree implicitly that you're pretty much walking into a place that won't be comfortable for you.

It's like going into a serious smash tourney and then accusing people of being meanies for 2 stocking you. What is normal for you may or may not be questioned. So much it hurts. If you can't take it, you shouldn't be here.

Correction: It was a Lunatic mode recommend me pairings thread. You based recommending Frederick on pure hearsay.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=47679#entry3089482

Edited November 11, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

Yes, but that doesn't mean it's okay to be rude or insult someone. I felt like someone was doing that to me, even if what I said wasn't 100% nice either. The thing is, I didn't know what I said was wrong. The other people were flat-out and purposely calling me a shitty racist. Not word for word, but that's the implication I got since they used the words "shitty" and "racist" to describe what I said.

Oh, that. I do remember that. It was "hearsay" from what other SF members said in the past, you know. But still, I shouldn't have said anything there.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Anacybele

[Moblin Major General]

Whether it was wrong or not, I certainly never intended to offend anyone or upset anyone. I wouldn't ever do that on purpose. You guys know I have this problem, where I unknowingly say the wrong thing like that. I try my damndest not to, but there are just still going to be times where I have zero clue that what I'm saying is problematic and think it's perfectly fine.

Bullshit. I have Aspergers, and while I too have had several moments, especially on this forum, where I failed to hold my tongue (granted, the other guy was kinda being a dick), but I'm not so asinine to say that I can't adapt to the situation at hand. Have I said some offensive things? I don't know, nobody's called me out yet. Aspergers isn't an excuse, Ana. Granted, you seem to lack the open-mindedness that I conduct during most conversations, even in Serious Discussion. Make an effort, because I have, and I am proud to say that I am faced with a different point of view every day because I am willing to admit I'm wrong, especially when I realize I don't even know what I'm talking about.

[Anacybele]

Bullshit. I have Aspergers, and while I too have had several moments, especially on this forum, where I failed to hold my tongue (granted, the other guy was kinda being a dick), but I'm not so asinine to say that I can't adapt to the situation at hand. Have I said some offensive things? I don't know, nobody's called me out yet. Aspergers isn't an excuse, Ana. Granted, you seem to lack the open-mindedness that I conduct during most conversations, even in Serious Discussion. Make an effort, because I have, and I am proud to say that I am faced with a different point of view every day because I am willing to admit I'm wrong, especially when I realize I don't even know what I'm talking about.

Wrong. Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it should be easy for me. Everybody, even people with the same disorder, is DIFFERENT. What may be simple for you can be super complicated for me and vice versa. Deal with it.

I also admit when I'm wrong. Sometimes I might still think I'm right, but when I find that I'm wrong, I admit it.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Anacybele

[UNLEASH IT]

I know that this is coming from a bunch of /pol/ memesters, but it shows how blatantly disconnected the mainstream media was from what was actually happening.

Edited November 11, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[Tolvir]

Beginning to think we need to get a mod in here, this is getting a bit ridiculous here. All of you need to take a look in the mirror, because your preach attitude is getting you no where, and just making you look like asses.

[Tolvir]

double post, lagged a bit.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Tolvir

[Anacybele]

I know that this is coming from a bunch of /pol/ memesters, but it shows how blatantly disconnected the mainstream media was from what was actually happening.

Ha, this is pretty amusing. lol

Beginning to think we need to get a mod in here, this is getting a bit ridiculous here. All of you need to take a look in the mirror, because your preach attitude is getting you no where, and just making you look like asses.

I don't wish to continue it, because you're right. My attitude wasn't right, neither was that of a few others. I don't want anymore trouble, I really don't. Like I said before, I'm sorry.

[Moblin Major General]

Beginning to think we need to get a mod in here, this is getting a bit ridiculous here. All of you need to take a look in the mirror, because your preach attitude is getting you no where, and just making you look like asses.

Better yet, this thread needs to be dead and gone. This thread has brought out the worst in all of us, and it would just be best if it were closed and deleted. I hope we can all move on and enjoy this Christmas, because this year has been absolute shit.

[shadowofchaos]

Wrong. Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it should be easy for me. Everybody, even people with the same disorder, is DIFFERENT. What may be simple for you can be super complicated for me and vice versa. Deal with it.

I also admit when I'm wrong. Sometimes I might still think I'm right, but when I find that I'm wrong, I admit it.

You just proved their point with this post, Ana.

You're essentially saying no one understands you and so no one can criticize you.

If someone who also has your disorder can't criticize you, who can?

If that's your mindset then you really shouldn't be here in this subforum.

Edited November 11, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Tolvir]

Better yet, this thread needs to be dead and gone. This thread has brought out the worst in all of us, and it would just be best if it were closed and deleted. I hope we can all move on and enjoy this Christmas, because this year has been absolute shit.

That would be the ideal solution. No reason to have this around anymore like you said.

And the turkey hasn't even been served yet! Thanksgiving is the gateway to Christmas, lol. ( though I will admit, I have been listening to Christmas music already. Lol)

[Anacybele]

You just proved their point with this post, Ana.

You're essentially saying no one understands you and so no one can criticize you.

I never said any such thing. Of course I can be criticized. There's just some things I cannot change, even if you criticize me for them.

And yeah, this election has brought out bad sides of a lot of people, not just here, not just irl. This thread should be locked. I've been temporarily banned from a forum because I argued with someone who was being bitchy to me (she was banned too) about this election. I don't think I was as nasty as she was, but I did argue, and did deserve some form of punishment (but not such a long ban...wtf).

I just want to move on, and I'm sure a lot of you do too.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Anacybele