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OK, let's correct the first real issue that I have with the middle tiers. Jaffar v. Isadora. Honestly, I think Jaffar's better. Isadora comes in Kinship's Bond as a level 1 Paladin. We already have Marcus who should be sitting at around level 4-5 based on how much you've used him so far. So let's have a quick comparison: Isadora - Level 1 Paladin - A Sword, B Lance, D Axe 13 Atk, 29 Acc, 16 AS, 6 Crit, 6 Con - 28 HP, 42 Avo, 8 Def, 6 Res Marcus - Level 5 Paladin - A Sword, S Lance, A Axe 16 Atk, 36 Acc, 12 AS, 8 Crit, 11 Con - 33 HP, 33 Avo, 10 Def, 9 Res I'm not trying to say Marcus > Isadora. What I want to point out is that the only reason why Isadora will be played instead of Marcus at certain points is for Exp purposes, which isn't saying much considering that both are promoted units. Aside from that, Marcus beats her in most stats and while it looks like Isa's AS is wonderful, don't forget that she has 6 Con, lowering that AS drastically. Based on the above comparison to Marcus, a unit with the exact same skills as her who gains the same amount of Exp, it's safe to say that Isadora won't be regularly fielded for a bunch of chapters until thanks to Marcus being better than her but gaining roughly the same amount of Exp. However, I'm going to assume in this case that Isadora sees quite a bit of combat in order to prepare for the end of the game. I think that ??/8 sounds fair by NoF though it may be a bit high. Isadora - Level 8 Paladin - A Sword, B Lance, C Axe - C Harken 15 Atk, 39 Acc, 19 AS, 11 Crit, 6 Con - 33 HP, 56 Avo, 9 Def, 8 Res Jaffar - Level 13 Assassin - A Sword 19 Atk, 55 Acc, 24 AS, 12 Crit, 8 Con - 34 HP, 58 Avo, 15 Def, 11 Res Well, Jaffar's killing Isa at combat. He's got 4+ Atk on her and his 24 AS/8 Con guarantee that just about everything gets doubled. He hits Silencer about 21% of the time with a Killing Edge on which is pretty good odds considering that he never misses his opponent and always doubles with 28 Atk. On the defensive side, they tie for HP and Avo but Jaffar's raw Def absolutely destroys Isadora by beating her by 6. But what about Exp? Jaffar must be getting less Exp than Isadora, right? He is a higher level, of course. Wrong, grasshopper. You have much to still learn. Jaffar belongs to the Assassin class, allowing him to gain Exp at the same rate as female Bishops and Valkyries. All three classes have a significant Exp increased due to formula used to calculate Exp. For example if both Isa and Jaffar killed a level 6 promoted enemy, Isadora would gain 36 Exp while Jaffar snags 47 Exp, even though he is 5 levels ahead. Nifty, huh? But wait, we're not done! Jaffar can OHKO his enemies with Silencer, giving him a 1.8x bonus to Exp gain. That same level 6 enemy now delivers a whopping 84 Exp! Now considering that Jaffar hits Silencer 21% of the time at base level (love how enemies have 0 Luck), he's averaging about 65 Exp per kill with the Silencer bonus added. That's close to almost double what Isadora gets, which is fucking insane. Jaffar destroys Isadora when both exist. He's better at combat and has higher defenses. Even at high levels, his Exp gain is much more than Isadora's. Then there's the fact that he has 42 Crit at base level which allows him to hit at least one crit 82% of the time, ensuring a kill. All Isadora has is join time and her contribution during it is quite questionable considering that Marcus is statistically superior to her in Kinship's Bond. Therefore, Jaffar > Isadora. Anyone care to disagree?

True dat. But it's also because I implied that nobody was reading my thread and everyone wanted to prove me wrong. I wasn't trying to get attention, I was actually apologizing to the people who follow my runs slightly religiously (Integrity and Bal so he can look at my EHM numbers). I figure that I might get more traffic once I start HHM and give detailed reports with pictures (which is what I'm planning to do). Chapter 25 - Pale Flower of Darkness Team: Eliwood, Marcus, Rebecca, Hector, Guy, Priscilla, Fiora, Legault, Ninian, Heath, Hawkeye, Pent, Karel (Turn 10) There are three things I hate about Fire Emblem in general. Deserts, FoW in deserts (23 in HHM) and snow. Especially Kenneth's map thanks to the Bishop who likes to snipe away with Purge (and has really good accuracy with it). Everything else is fine. Kenneth's map in Eliwood's story is completely magic based with a bunch of Wyverns coming from the north and east. The Purge Bishop sits deep in the main structure, just blasting away at your party. I got Pent to Silence him on Turn 2 (I had to keep redoing the chapter over until Pent landed the Silence with 46 Hit) so that I could rush Marcus to the Bishop and kill it before he could speak again. Rebecca soloed the Mage room. She sat on the forest outside of the room and picked off each Mage one by one. As she did that, Fiora, Hector, Marcus and Priscilla went east to deal with the structure while the rest of the team went north. Fiora and Hector cleared out the mages sitting in the opening room while Marcus rushed to the silenced Bishop. He managed to kill the Bishop on Turn 6 with the Brave Axe, since he couldn't double the Bishop without it. I love Marcus' B Axes and also the fact that he's still sharp since the last chapter he fought in was Dragon's Gate. As that happened, the rest of the team moved north through the snow. Hawkeye and Heath became an indestructible wall, thanks in part to Pent's healing. Once the major force was whittled down, Guy lured out the Eclipse/Nosferatu Druid and killed him while most of the force went east into the building. Legault opened the door to Hector's team on Turn 7, allowing Marcus to rush across to kill Kenneth. Which was funny because Kenneth was actually targetting a full HP Legault with Purge rather than taking out Marcus with Aura. Eliwood recruited Karel on Turn 10 and was rescue chained to the throne in order to seize on Turn 13. So yeah. And Hector promoted at the end of the chapter, which was nice. I brought along more promoted units than I wanted to but that was because I needed guys who could take Res hits (Marcus, Pent) or had high HP (Hawkeye). Oh and Pent for High tier. He's been vital on all 3 of my runs so far and I haven't even hit HHM yet. The man can do it all. Eliwood 19.44 |35|13|20|13|12|13| 8| Marcus 4.71 |34|16|16|11| 9|10| 8| Rebecca 18.45 |28|13|15|18|11| 4| 7| Hector 1.00 |41|17|16|15| 9|20| 8| Guy 15.13 |31| 8|17|18|11| 8| 2| Priscilla 16.44 |21|12|12|16|16| 4| 8| Fiora 15.44 |27|11|16|16| 8| 9|11| Legault 16.53 |29|10|14|18|12|10| 5| Ninian 13.45 |23| 0| 1|20|22|10|14| Heath 17.18 |37|15|13|10| 9|12| 1| Hawkeye 5.77 |51|18|14|11|13|15|10| Pent 8.19 |35|19|21|18|15|11|16| Karol Capel 8.00 Base Chapter stats: Tactics - 13/18 Exp - 1551/1550 Run stats: Tactics - 195/232 (5 stars) Exp - 24385/21550 (5 stars) Yeah. I beat Exp by 1 point. Hey, better than a chapter where I lose ground.

I know that the teams are completely random but it really wouldn't be fair if it was us 3. Toss in Bal vs. 100 townies and we'd still probably win.

Double post but I gotta do this. More Terrance Howard. Did you know that 3 Six Mafia won an Oscar for this song? An Oscar for Best Original Song (in Hustle & Flow). Ridiculous.

That's got the lead singer of Linkin Park in that rap group, right? Anyway, wanna hear real rap? This is the one song that I absolutely love that isn't Eminem or Kanye in the Rap genre. It's worth a listen. EDIT: Actually, I lied. There's also Terrance Howard from Hustle & Flow. Probably his best performance ever and yet he's never won an Oscar...

Personal TV that I've been using all year. Cost like $80 back in September so it wasn't much. Once I get a job and start making money, I'm going to buy another one that cheap rather than repair it. I might take a picture of it and post it in the Picture Thread to show how badly I fucked with it. Technically, there are a couple of incentives to use Rebecca enough earlygame until Genesis rolls around. AKA all the Peg Knights in HHM. If she can be sitting at around level 12 at Genesis, she's usable for the rest of the game. To clear Genesis quickly, Kishuana needs to be sniped safely (Longbow) in case he's out of reach from a 1-2 range weapon. After that, it's two chapters of Wyverns which is a godsend for an archer. I don't hate Heath. I despise Heath with all of my heart. That doesn't keep me from using him when he's useful or when I'm trying to make a point. I just don't use him most of the time. Just got to keep plugging away, I guess. Oh and thanks for all of the comments now, guys. Hopefully I can finish EHM by the end of this weekend which would be nice. Starting PFoD now.

I don't usually do efficiency runs but I'm considering speeding through this game to see if I agree with you about positions and stuff. What's the average turn count in this game?

I just looked at the supports and was instantly floored. How do you do it? Honestly, I feel a little down that you can get so many supports while Eli/Hector refuses to go to a B on this run (it's a C right now). Everything. My first try at S Ranking HHM was basically me following the advice of GFAQs at the time. Promote like 5 people, keep rotating very low level units near the end of the game, use Iron weapons, go as fast as possible and spam Physic. It worked but I had no idea how.

Why isn't Duessel above Cormag? Does it really come down to the fact that Cormag flies? Duessel is a mobile tank. He's got WTC and he's not fighting for a promo item like Cormag (unless Cormag gets the 15 Master Seal).

Point well taken. Mind you, your 0% run stuff is incredible. Have you done an FE7 run like that yet because if you have, I'd love to look at some of your strategies.

You know I'm kidding with you, Narga. But the point still stands that you've had more people post in your playthrough log than me. I've already beaten this game 2 1/2 times in this thread while you're halfway through yours. So I get a little bit depressed. Besides, I basically suck at all non FE7 FE games. If I can pull this off (S Ranking HHM), I'll be really happy because it means that I didn't S Rank it via luck like last time.

Guys, I want to apologize for being away so long. I've been working on my 7/7 completionist run on Tales of Vesperia (7 runthroughs of the game, using every character and gaining every single achievement) and I was at the last dungeon of Part 2 when my TV broke (the screen cracked). Which means I need to go back to FE to stave off my boredom. Yeah. Sorry guys (AKA the two people who read this topic) for the long delay. Chapter 24 - Unfulfilled Heart Team: Eliwood, Rebecca, Hector, Serra, Matthew, Erk, Lyn, Sain, Canas, Dart Ninian, Isadora, Heath, Rath, Pent (Turn 1), Louise (Turn 1) Notes: I'm loving the Silver Card. Snagged a bunch of Killer Weapons for really cheap from the Armoury and a couple more Heals/Elfires for the road. Pent, Louise, Hector and Eliwood managed to hold off the Wyverns. To anyone who actively debates tier lists, I promise I'll never sandbag the FE7 archers ever again. Wil was awesome last run and Rebecca's becoming quite handy (a Steel Bow ORKOs Wyverns but an Iron Bow leaves it in critical HP for another unit to mop up). Not to mention that I love Geitz and his B Bows. Can't wait for his HHM bonuses, along with a bunch of other units. Matthew finally rammed 20/0. Since I haven't promoted anybody yet, I could potentially promote him instead of abusing Jaffar which would be nice. However, I'll need to do a Funds analysis to determine who gets promos and I doubt Matthew's going to enjoy reading the Fell Contract. Right now, Lyn, Hector, Rebecca and Priscilla are guaranteed promotions. Heath looks like he should promote along with one of Lucius/Sain which brings my total to 80k before Nino. I'd love to have Raven promote too but I highly doubt that's going to happen. Oh and loving my tankish Eliwood. +3 HP, +3 Def and +2 Res. Coolio. And Ninian is unkillable. Eliwood 19.44 |35|13|20|13|12|13| 8| Hector 19.37 |37|16|13|12| 9|18| 3| Rebecca 16.54 |27|12|13|16|10| 4| 6| Serra 17.43 |31|10| 8|12|17| 4|12| Matthew 20.00 |37|11|10|20|15| 6| 5| Erk 13.16 |24| 7|11|16| 8| 4| 8| Lyn 17.33 |26|14|19|20|12| 8| 3| Sain 13.33 |30|14|12|11| 7| 7| 5| Canas 11.39 |22|11|10| 8| 7| 5|10| Dart 15.76 |39|16| 8|13| 4| 7| 1| Ninian 12.13 |22| 0| 1|20|21|10|13| Isadora 1.96 Base Heath 15.81 |35|15|12|10| 9|12| 1| Rath 12.19 |29|10|12|14| 5| 8| 4| Pent 6.92 Base Louise 4.55 Base Chapter stats: Tactics - 12/11 Exp - 1706/1500 Run stats: Tactics - 182/214 (5 stars) Exp - 22834/20000 (5 stars) 32 turn and 28.34 level surplus. Pretty good so far. My goal is to stay within Bal's own stats for turns and Exp. So far, I'm looking good but I'm also playing really careful in my unit choices. I've been spreading around a ton of Exp but once the late chapters hit (Sands of Time, Victory or Death), I'm going to pull out units like a level 10 Wil to clean up some kills. Plus I'm promoting Nino which is a good 2500 Exp right there by the end of the game. Fun fact: I've never promoted Nino.

Actually, you did the right thing. Had I been in your position, I would have also role claimed Deputy. But I would have pushed harder. It seemed like you just gave up once I came up with my "perfectly explanation". You could have called me out, pushed much harder for my lynch and then get the doctor to keep you alive or better yet, confuse the mafia by telling Hika to alternate posts between the two of you so that we don't want to guess wrong and hit the guy who's actually being saved. You could have stayed alive at least 3 more nights this way (Bizz found the Doctor and Nurse back to back).

I like your thinking but I'm more of a Ninetales fan myself.

Jackal, Donnie's right about the crit rates. Hell, I had Matthew and Guy tank Luna shots on my EHM run while you guys worry about 2 crit (might be from common enemies but I was dealing with 20 crit).

Actually, it was Attila's bow and sword that beat Alexander. And considering that one of Alexander's weapons was a crossbow... Yeah, I'd say it was more skill. Not to mention that the guy handling Attila's Sword of Mars was doing some sick swordwork.

I got unlucky that Tables found me on the first night. Either way, I single-handedly got the town to lynch Mordy. And I loved it. No hard feelings, eh Mordy?

Wow, I'm 1/3 for picks this season. How did Al Capone's gang not win? I for sure thought that the Tommy Gun would destroy the Colt Revolvers based on the fact that we're looking at 50 bullets shot in less than 10 seconds. Should have brought back the Mafia guys to do the Capone demonstrations. Oh and the bow demonstration for Attila the Hun was absolutely incredible. Blew me away.

If this was efficiency, Athos would be nowhere near the middle of the list. But since this is ranked, he's basically a +100 in Tactics and -100 in Exp. I'm pulling out random numbers but what I'm trying to say is that his Tactics contributions are countered by the fact that not only does he keep others from getting Exp, he himself doesn't get any Exp. I don't agree with Smash's logic for Sephiran being perfectly neutral because it seems to me that there is no downside to using him when the only thing you care about is efficiency. But it works for Athos because what he gives out in Tactics pluses, he kills in Exp gains. In fact, it's just a bit more. As for Lyn, I honestly don't know what happened. This topic started with Lyn at the bottom of Upper Mid as a repost of a tier list that Bblader found somewhere (on GFAQs maybe?). I reposted the list on page 6 with Lyn still at the bottom of Upper Mid but the list on page 15 is a copypasta version of what was here on SF. And somehow, Lyn dropped down at least a tier in that time. I've been saying that those two tiers (Upper Mid and Lower Mid) have been messed up for a while. But all my concerns about it have been drowned out by Merlinus, Matthew (on GFAQs), Hector (still on GFAQs), Raven and Marcus.

The argument that I used to put Athos on the list was "Athos is basically your Tactics rank in Light". If you 10-11 turn Light (including the Dragon), it's all thanks to Athos. That being said, he's a pure negative for Exp in a chapter where we need 3000 Exp. If we're going to abuse him to make sure that we come under the required number of turns, we have to make sure that we've already beaten Exp before walking into Light. My goal was to put him near Hawkeye. Athos is a positive for Tactics and negative for Exp. The two almost weigh each other out, meaning that he should be near the middle. It's similar to Smash's idea of Sephiran being considered neutral utility.

I know I'm dead but... Spoon, if you're dead, don't say anything to anyone. Period. There's no excuse for this. I personally don't care if you make someone infer something or not because dead men don't tell tales. As in they don't fucking speak at all.

King Russell

Yay! No Sleep Claus in my gym!