Naglfar

FYND ENYTHING

When did Fire Emblem go wrong? We need moar of this. Excalibur!Snacky.

HUSH YOONAE

SAWTH

Why? MistxIke 8D

Don't worry, Crash...

Jill x Jill. Also, I really need to get around to the earlier games. WHO THE FUX IS ISHTAR DLFKHOASDKHRF lolninja.

JillxLyre.

Haven't looked into why Rolf (T) should make such a huge jump, but as for Sanaki > Lehran, sure.

prtymuch? Gay!Mist~?

Lol Kannadzuki. I got nothing.

OFFISAR?

Wrong. If it lasts one turn it's because Ike auto-killed the Burger King and neither of our Lions did anything for the completion of 4-E-2. Giffca's advantage here only happens when we play the chapter out a bit more because then ability to kill enemies means something. It's a tie otherwise. How does any of that give Mufasa an advantage? If we set up a defensive position what would've been a player phase advantage is eliminated. Actually (Thanks Narga on this one), since I forgot about Giffca's superior performance against Lehran, 4-E-4 is more even as well. E-1 probably isn't an advantage either since most of the Generals do not have range, and so they'd suicide into Giffca on enemy phase anyway. Yes, there's the space, which can be a pretty big advantage in this comparison given the space you have, and also the fact that Giffca can use Parity and still double instead of Nihil, which is good because Nihil is more highly contested for. Eh? I might not use Laguz royals, but I find it hard to get rid of all them even by the end of turn 2 sometimes. When you take missing and starting positions into account, I really doubt you can get rid of all of them by turn 1. It isn't impossible, but IIRC, it requires a very specific team (there's a video on Youtube of it, I think it's Vykan's) and might also require stat abusing via Battle Saves, etc. I'm actually beginning to think Giffca should be > and not just =. Hm. you have a point with 4-E-1, I forgot how Burger King auto-kill eliminates the advantage for 4-E-2, must have underestimated Sephiran's ability to make a difference between the two in 4-E-4, and had no idea 4-E-5 could be that hard to eat through. But I still can't see myself needing more than two turns... perhaps you not using royals contributes to you needing a third turn. Okay, your arguments for Giffca have convinced me that Giffca > Caineghis. I mean, sure, why not? As long as we can established that they're not equal. This is Fire Emblem, people. It's too complex for units to be of exactly equal value.

4-E-2, hm? If it lasts one turn, Cain wins, obviously. Giffca will likely not get to attack on the player phase, and enemies would surely choose units who they can actually damage to attack. Even if he does get attacked, what does it matter when he's not helping to get Wishblade? If it lasts two or more turns, Cain's lead dwindles. Simple as that. However, what if you use a siege tome to kill Levail? Not only are you running out of time to use them, but Blizzard and such aren't helping 4-E-3 like Bolting is. Surely you can spare two or three uses of that one, and keep the rest of your team in a defensive position while you wait for Ike to kill the BK? Turns out 4-E-2 is very slightly in Cain's favour. From what I can gather, 4-E-1 and 4-E-2 are marginal wins for Cain, 4-E-3 is even, and 4-E-4 is another small win for the king. It comes down to how much Giffca's AS lead matters in 4-E-5. Not much. Caineghis can't double them without Nasir, but of course, with Nasir, he can. And I can't think of many units who would benifit more than he would from this. His attack is just so high. Still, it takes up one of the spaces from which White Pool can be used. The auroras should probably all be gone, or mostly gone, by the end of turn one anyway. Beating Ashera on the first turn isn't impossible either. No matter what kind of team you have, you can't really expect to need turn three, and without a heron, Giffca doesn't even participate in turn one. Giffca's doubling ability becomes a moot point here, too. Somehow, I'm leaning towards Cain again.

Yes, it's obvious. But if I don't mention it, it won't be addressed. Reading your points there, I'm starting to see what Giffca's AS lead can really do. Turns out I'm leaning the other way now. Oh, and my point when mentioning Formshift was that they're not the same. That's the most important point I can make here, next to perhaps which one is better.

Really? That's all? That's like saying Aran should go up simply because he has high Def. You've seen my post from earlier. We've established that Formshift gives Cain a lead, albeit one player phase per chapter. As for stats, it's mostly Cain's more or less unnecessary HP, strength, skill, luck and defence leads versus Giffca's slightly less unnecessary speed and resistance leads. However similar they are, they're not the same. The point of tier lists is not to say units are the same. That's a cop-out. We have: Cain: Formshift, slightly better concrete durability Giffca: May suffice with a laguz stone thanks to lion transformation gauge, higher AS thanks to both base and growth So, an extra few player phases, or an extra double attack or two? I'm leaning toward the lion king here. Finally, I don't see how you can draw a parallel between this and Aran. He's not given as equal to anyone; nobody's going from below a unit to above. I'm trying to point out how they are not equal.

It seems to be a combination of both. Also, Cain =/= Giffca go. Just for now, I'll give the simple point of Formshift so as to not make things too complicated; and that already proves they're not the same unit.

That one isn't nearly as clear-cut as the other ones. The real tier list has them as = right now. I'm aware of this. But surely Formshift has to mean SOMETHING, even if you do have laguz gems at that point. I figured godly units ready from turn one > godly units ready from turn two. Also, gems are limited; Reyson, Ena and Kurth all want them too, and all of a sudden the unit who doesn't use up your precious gems becomes much more appealing. Vigor doesn't factor either, because the one attack on turn one for Giffca could be two attacks on turn one for Cain instead. It's not clear-cut, no, but there's a difference there. Perhaps I should take this up on the proper tier list thread...

Nobody else is competing for the Arms Scrolls or the three magic swords, as far as I can tell. She's the most awesome glass cannon I've ever used, she can heal, and she gets a pony when she promotes. Lol @ burden. Little concrete durability =/= burden. One, she doesn't need babying. She needs protection. Like pretty much every healer before her. Two, she has magic swords; with far higher might than most tomes. I don't see what the problem is.

Oscar < Titania Caineghis > Giffca Ranulf < Volug Sort out your = rubbish first, then add the missing units, and fix your Callil and Kurthanga typos. Then we can worry about fixing the list itself.

lolTauroneo Brom?

lolsure. Septimus?

Rolf, maybe. And in any case, yes, I know what Tails looks like.

what are you talking about what the hell is testedich.de and no thats just weird EDDDDDDDDDDWARD That's what your image appears as. Icing a cake!Jill