Seazas

No they wouldn't. You assuming stuff like this is why I called your point nothing but circlejerk. Everyone in his army have something to do with their lives. Unless Clair decides to check with her pegasus to confirm then there's a chance. Made leader despite being inexperienced with battle and making dumb decisions like trusting Anthony. At least Jedah was a high and mighty priest of Duma with Halcyon being the former one and he was a good guy when Celica met him. Anthony was some random shady kid.

Actually it would because Celica did what she did out of desperation and the way it was set up. She thought if she sacrificed her life everyone would at least be okay underneath Duma taking care of Valentia. Because again, gods were held with the most priority and Mila just being GONE caused shit to go sideways. Imagine a mad Duma with nothing to hold him back lol. It isn't just Clive, everyone has a moment of doubting Alm, no one doubts Corrin BUT Takumi. No, Corrin knows nothing about war except fighting which Corrin hates. Xander kicks Corrin's ass all the time until Elise is killed where he just... gives up. It's kinda sad. Hinoka would totally have more experience in fighting and commanding than Corrin though.

Just for the sake of Valentia since he is the king now and Duma was mad. No, as long as there's darkness in human hearts. Alm managing to secure lasting peace for literally thousands of years. His decision was the reason Valentia survived. She was desperate and no other options showed, it was the only lead to Mila and she regrets it immensely. So it's not like she's willing to repeat the same mistake.

No, they would doubt him as well. Faye... not sure but she didn't have faith about him surviving a war and was hesitant about joining him as well. Yeah Birthright Corrin is alright but Revelations is specifically the canon route and the other Corrins don't really matter unfortunately. He isn't supposed to, he's only supposed to share ideals with Duma. That's it. He's above Corrin and got criticized and doubted, with Alm having to prove himself every single time. There were way better options to put as the center front of the army who knows more about war but Corrin was put as forefront anyway and it makes no sense. It's just Takumi and you do know that they show that Takumi always loved Corrin and that the possession truly screwed him over right? Alm had to always PROVE that he was in the right to multiple characters and had to earn respect. Once Clive put the slightest backing into Alm, Clive was mocked upon and doubted upon by everyone except a few who witnessed Alm's skill. So Alm wasn't feared as a foe until he had to prove it. Corrin gets it off the get go due to being a royal. Mycen teaches Alm more than how to fight. "Sir Mycen has been teaching me to use a blade since I was a boy. I’ve received tutelage in military tactics, medicine, weather, terrain… I know as much about war as any man who has never seen one can. Let me fight for you with my grandfather’s gifts. I’ll prove he’s no cowardly old man. He’s a warrior who trains warriors." All Corrin was taught is how to fight, and it shows. Even then he's not as skilled as say Ryoma or Hinoka.

Alm would never be able to convince anyone to jump off a cliff for him. He gets called insane just for going out to war and gets doubt for making a risky decision. Also seriously...? Alm is as bad as Corrin? Now THAT is some circlejerk. I'm impressed... If Alm screws up in the alternate scenarios the game doesn't constantly try to wave the issue away and makes sure to put Alm in the right like Corrin, Clive calls out Alm for being the reason his wife dies, and Clive's more displayed in the right to do so. (The game couldn't expand upon this because it's a side project and it lines up with Clive taking part of the blame because he never took action to begin with) Alm is actually experienced with war from the teachings of Mycen, Corrin despite being UTTERLY inexperienced, is handed the major roles of the army like leadership and it's... seriously?

I disagree to this disagreement. Tobin and Gray became noticeably skilled from the war so isn't just that. They fought throughout the whole thing and lived to tell the tale, they would've got some sort of credit for being apart of Alm's strength and being major players. Mycen wasn't born a noble and he's considered a famous war hero and he didn't ride off of Alm's success so sorry but... That kinda turns your point about "no one can become a hero" really moot... That's not counting Lukas rising above his merits and getting far despite being a "backwater noble" and Forsyth getting his efforts rewarded by being a lieutenant and an advisor. Alm's special points only really shine when it comes down to handling a god, anyone could've done what Alm did (besides the god slaying part) and would be crowned a legend. All it takes is skill on the battlefield. That's wrong actually, he has some of Mila's positive traits but he follows Duma's ideals, even then in Act 5 when you get Celica back: she comes to regret acting out of desperation and believing what she was born to believe. She grows out of that, accepts Alm's offer to help him fight Duma and she starts to believe humanity can make it without gods. So she takes some of Duma's ideals to heart but has more of Mila in her. I find it a fitting end for her character and it lines up well. Rudolf's plan is fine, prophecies are a big thing in those times, we're literally in a franchise where chosen ones and blessed heritages (like Marth's family for example being blessed to use the Falchion and no one else) are okay. Prophecies are fine. "Damselifcation" that's more of a nitpick than anything. A lot of the female chars despite being in a shitty situation beforehand turn out to be likable badasses than their entire character being a helpless princess: Mathilda, Faye (battlefield wise though her A support with Alm was nice before her ending), Clair, Mae, Sonya (one of the best chars of Echoes writing wise), and Delthea. Celica being a flawed protag goes well with Alm and Alm even says himself in Act 5 that without Celica, Alm can only look what's in front of him. That exact situation of Alm not thinking for a bit and going in guns blazing against Rudolf despite something itching him nonstop proves as such (Celica would've said or tried something in his shoes which something could've happened since Rudolf won't bring himself to attack). Negative use of it's setting...? Lmao.

He literally stood up and was willing to work just as hard if not harder in the fields to provide food if he had to. Humans being bad as the gods...? That would make zero sense, because they're supposed to be independent from the gods, the gods aren't bad but completely relying on them has proven to the destruction of a lot of things. Celica has context to back her up, she comes to regret how she acts in Act 5 and accepts Alm's offer to help take down Duma. Which is something she never would've done earlier on because she was believing what she was raised to believe in.

I just want a discussion so why not? I see this point quite a bit, but the things people criticize about Echoes story regarding themes is "commoners can do it too but Alm's a prince" or "Alm doesn't match Duma" or something like that. From what I gathered the actual theme early on is "all lives matter and that anyone can be a hero", Random villagers helping Alm's cause (Tobin literally becoming a famous general with a castle despite being a nobody, Same for Gray but without the castle), and Alm having to work his way to even get to the position of his princely title supports this. Alm remains the most farmboy king ever, he's the only king you'll ever see plowing the fields. It took years of training and teaching by Mycen for Alm to get his skill in battle. He wasn't handed stuff automatically, he had to prove his skills. That's what truly convinced Clive to begin with and proved that he was truly Mycen's grandson. Clive exists to give insight that he can't relate to commoners despite being the most understanding, Some of Gray's dialogue about him assuming knights are snobs and the way Lukas acts slowly convincing him they're a minority, also Python in his and Clive's support. Despite it being DLC it was made with the story in mind so it counts. Alm being a noble and a commoner is perfect, since he's the one preaching that nobles and commoners both matter. Then it leads up to the point that man must unite together and that they can stand without a god. Which brings an excellent foil to Celica and her upbringings. Then there's the other theme. Alm shares Duma's ideals to a T as well so it doesn't throw Celica off. Alm wanted humanity to stand strong without depending on gods and that's exactly what Duma wanted. Duma proves to be an alright guy so making Alm ultra aggressive is unnecessary. This actually makes the plot make sense now and what they were aiming for. Now that makes the only true flaw of the plot is the random scene of Nuibaba's sprouting from the earth hands.

Alm killed Duma because he was forced due to the dragon curse and he was far gone. How does that make Alm a dick? It's the very same reason why Rudolf downed Mila early and wanted to follow the prophecy as well. I prefer Duma and Mila being connected to Naga because it makes more sense and it explains the existence of the Valentian falchion. I prefer Berkut how he was, the entire point of him was falling from grace honestly. The entire point of Celica was to make a mistake, pay for it (with her allies not slipping it under the rug but instead calling her out on this and some of her other risky decisions) and she grows and regrets her actions in Act 5 after you save her. The way she raised, she believed there was no future without gods. Mila was a gamebreaker and Zofia would've ended up okay if Celica got her back. I like the fact that she's more of a flawed protag than a well balanced one.

Actually from the DLC, Alm was Fernand's breaking point he already started to doubt the Deliverance when they went against his ideals and morals when they put innocent people hostage threatening to kill them. He clearly had a problem with that with his dialogue.

...Berkut? No the entire point of Berkut was being a victim of Rigel and falling from grace. Not being this feared badass. Him being "finest general" was an ego boosting title and there's ways to get that title outside of just battle. His entire theme is "pride and arrogance". Said pride and arrogance crafted by Rigel is the cause of his downfall. Berkut saying himself these standards were forced on by his parents in game. The developers say themselves that if Alm was raised in Rigel he would be no different from Berkut... Shall I give the link? It's in my bookmarks somewhere so I can go search for it if you like. Also what's wrong with Alm?

Yeah they're good except Lianna's and Rowan's for me. Rowan just made his character worse. Lianna feels all over the place.

Hopefully Tharja loses ....

SOV only makes Gaiden relevant and worth something now

Really hope that's not true because I want to see Arran, Samson and Sheena get cards already! But if they do Macellan, Dolph and Tomas BETTER get cards!

Ayyy I was right~! Though it's a shame Binding wasn't included as well... At least Archanea was saved of having to overlap with Switch Emblem...

People who deny that Lyn and Celica were forced didn't read the reddit post where Koei said it themselves...

You're wrong dude. Intelligent Systems is the entire REASON Lyn and Celica got in the game. Basically confirmed by Koei themselves where they also revealed their intentions to hold Roy and Ike back.

Can we make spoiler topics as long as we make it clear it's spoilers?

Hasha no Tsurugi pretty much touched all it's OCs that are notable and exist on their own anyway. I highly doubt we're seeing anymore of those guys. Annnd of course Archanea and Elibe have the most they were basically shafted by this card game. Crossing my fingers Tellius and Genealogy become close to finished at least with it's characters after set 12.

Yeah Celica's route was shafted but to say he doesn't contrast her in anyway is simply bullshit. He doesn't need to be like his awfully written inaccurate to the original Awakening version just to contrast Celica. Alm is more reckless and willing to fight than Celica. Plus this picture supports my point too.

People use the "t-they're two entire different games!" excuse when Radiant Dawn and Galaxy are nothing alike yet it got completely snuffed in the west.

Odyssey easily snatches a lot of sales from this game though...

@NoirCore You can be childish without being flat out unbearable like Rowan.

"My heart only has Corrin" I proceed to hate Camilla more and more everyday! Rowan is legit one of the worst characters in this franchise now. Sure there was naive tools and full of themselves people but usually not this bad and they have an arc that resolves this issue or shows more of them in a support. I have never SEEN a character that flat out dissed a tactician like Robin or tactics in general and then proceeds to act like their skills was the reason they won. If I didn't hate Rowan that much already I sure hate him 100x over now. Can we please have Alfonse back?