Makaze

Fable listed you as his second favourite lynch. Didn't quote posts or anything

No one has cased you, I just said you were scum out of the gate and you haven't proved me wrong lol

Why does this behavior look bad for Athena and not for Fable (FMPOV Fable is doing the same thing but with more self-pres).

I think it's reasonable for you to look for scum there, I just happen to think it's all towns on that wagon. lol I don't believe Fenrir is independently scummy, including for reading too much into your joke, so your conclusion is flawed since you are assuming there is a scum when there might not be.

This I would agree because if Evan is town he will be a good asset later on, and his lynch is pretty much a modkill at this point (no content). He's just high on my PoE because I don't have any reasons not to suspect him (hence PoE instead of casing).

I don't understand your last question. Can you quote what you're talking about?

The last three can be in any order, it's hard for me to pin down priority there. Wouldn't lynch them today anyway.

I think it's a fundamentally easy vote for scum even if they are partners, but the absence of other pings and the way he presented it in that post just makes me think it's a lazy switch because he hasn't done his reading after moving off of Xdranoj, but it doesn't read as agenda'd to me. It's lazy at worst (which is not alignment indicative). Finally ISO's Fenrir. I feel like he is town as well, just from the pacing and complexity of his thoughts, which puts my PoE at: Fable Satsuma EvanManManMan athena Bartozio Mack From most to least scummy. What do you think of Fable? Is there anything you want to ask them?

##Vote @SatsumaFSoysoy I have an hour starting now. I just re-read Bartozio's ISO and I definitely don't get strong impressions either way, and don't feel especially bad about the way they voted Fable either. @Bartozio What do you think of people other than Fable and Xdranoj? Offically making a ##Votals call.

I just ISO'd Mackc2 to get some context and with the stuff Zeonth pointed out and the way he has responded to me, I don't feel like he is doing it intentionally. Posts like this don't read as scum motivated to me (especially given the lack of prodding between the posts to cause the change): I'm officially dropping my suspicion until further notice. Also ISO'd Satsuma. Some stuff pings me: He never followed up on this or even got a read off of how I responded (I replied with one word "No"). "Not quite on board with" pings me as hedging and qualitatively different from "I'm going to need sold on" and things like that. He's also not trying to interact with Fable himself, which makes this look worse. I don't like this sideways shading because what he is doing is not actually testing his theory or engaging with athena, and I really don't see the town motivation in talking around someone instead of at them when you aren't sure about them. Athena's case looks especially good with this. Leaning Satsuma/Fable buddies based on the weird way they dismissed a Fable lynch, so this lynch is fine with me, and gives more information than Fable (might also help convince you guys if he flips scum and provide some evidence to go with my gut read).

I wasn't really casing Mackc so much as prodding him, but I think I explained my thoughts fairly well. There is one thing I will say: I think Mackc's behavior is intentionally cautious, but I haven't gotten a feeling that he is lying or being ingenuine either. He's just being very careful about what he's doing. I think this is more likely to be scummy, but any case I made would be easy and not gut based, so I prefer not to get "tells" from behavior that I objectively can't read and subjectively don't have feelings about. I'd prefer to see him come out and risk something by making a reads list or something. Not hold himself in check.

I get off work at 8edt so 8 will be here for lunch and last break but not EOD. I am willing to consolidate on either Bart or Satsuma if necessary.

yeah um dude you don't need to ragequit to find the mafia and you definitely shouldn't consider makaze's way of mafia the site meta lmao i barely even play

Going to update with text fixes. Sorry guys, didn't mean to spam the thread...

my bad, i had to copy paste from the white theme because my post got garbled and auto posted and forgot to clear formatting on the repost

Zeonth town. @Zeonth @ The Mackc2 comment: Now that you put it like that, you're right, he did ask him why he town read athena. I read like this "Why do you only have one town read?" That's the question I thought he was asking. Now that you've pointed out there is another interpretation, it does change how I read it a bit. He did ask what he meant to ask (kind of).

I can buy that their argument is town v town (especially after reading Bart's last post), but who are you actually suspecting then? i.e. Are you okay with me being the top wagon right now? lol

gdi still forgot someone in the switch meh Going to go a little more in depth. My PoE at the moment: Town @RADicate (Mentor: @Walrein) // General town pings and lack of agenda made me feel pretty good about them. my weakest read in this category though @Rapier (Mentor: @eclipse) // Pretty strong argumentation and way of presenting that shows constantly evolving opinions as they read each post. doesn't state conclusions, states progressions @XnadrojX - Bomb Moss (Mentor: @undine's breath - Lenny) // Not much to say, town pings all around Town Lean @Junk (Junko) // I haven't gotten the feeling of ingenuine motives or randomnes I usually get from Junko which suggests they are more relaxed than when I have seen them (usually as Mafia) and that reads good to me. Mixed Pings (Townsided) @athena_57 (Mentor: @Refa) // Some posts strike me as town and others have blatant misreps. Part of me thinks they are just odd or trying things out, and I liked their Satsuma case. While some content has an agenda, some does not, so it is hard for me to pin down his motives. Town with agenda is possible. Mixed Pings (Scumsided) @Mackc2 (Mentor: @Magnificence Incarnate - Marth) // Seems to ask a lot of useless questions and avoids taking strong stances. In general doesn't touch real content with a ten foot pole. If this continues, going to call it more than caution, but I don't like this when I have more decisive pings. Null-ish Scum Lean (Haven't done homework) @SatsumaFSoysoy (Mentor: @Vi-astra) // I liked athena's case on them. I haven't had any especially good pings about them, so I'll have to make a read of my own later. Scum Lean @EvanManManMan (Mentor: @Shinori) // His entrance was bad, but then his posts later weren't terrible, but he dropped off the earth. sticking with first impressions until further impressions exist @Bartozio (Mentor: @SB.) // Several of their posts and questions rang hollow to me and I haven't seen anything that jumps out to me as town. I'll comment on specifics tomorrow (this is where I would consolidate despite Evan being stronger early because Evan isn't even around.) Scum @Fable Null (No homework) @Fenrir Aesir (Mentor: @Fenraiser) @Zeonth (Mentor: @Alette)

wtf it posted out of nowhere. sigh list incomplete, finishing My PoE at the moment: Town @RADicate (Mentor: @Walrein) @Rapier (Mentor: @eclipse) @XnadrojX - Bomb Moss (Mentor: @undine's breath - Lenny) Town Lean @Junk (Junko) Mixed Pings (Townsided) @athena_57 (Mentor: @Refa) Mixed Pings (Scumsided) @Mackc2 (Mentor: @Magnificence Incarnate - Marth) Null-ish Scum Lean (Haven't done homework) @SatsumaFSoysoy (Mentor: @Vi-astra) Scum Lean @EvanManManMan (Mentor: @Shinori) // His entrance was bad, but then his posts later weren't terrible, but he dropped off the earth. sticking with first impressions until further impressions exist Scum @Fable Null (No homework) @Fenrir Aesir (Mentor: @Fenraiser) @Zeonth (Mentor: @Alette)

My PoE as the moment: Town @RADicate (Mentor: @Walrein) @Rapier (Mentor: @eclipse) @XnadrojX - Bomb Moss (Mentor: @undine's breath - Lenny) Town Lean @Junk (Junko) Mixed Pings (Townsided) @athena_57 (Mentor: @Refa) Mixed Pings (Scumsided) @Mackc2 (Mentor: @Magnificence Incarnate - Marth) Null-ish Scum Lean (Haven't done homework) @SatsumaFSoysoy (Mentor: @Vi-astra)@EvanManManMan (Mentor: @Shinori) @Fable @Zeonth (Mentor: @Alette)

Okay. I don't need to talk to you to observe you talking to others, which is where pings will be more helpful anyway.

I'm actually only interested in how what you say feels not the content. If you do the same shit as both alignments then you're being intentionally NAI with that play, and I'm here to tell you I can read which you are through the BS despite you having the same basic content because the way you say it has different connotations and emotions. If I'm wrong, then so what? Why are you so bothered by it when no one else is sheeping me? Why so defensive, why so angry? On second thought, don't answer that, I don't really care; my point is, I'd rather see something that pings me town, than argue over stuff that, at best, you think shouldn't ping me at all, but still does. You are not going to change my mind about what pings me in the past. You are going to have to ping me town with new stuff starting now. No way around it.

I skipped over that post originally because it doesn't contain a question, and actually only states the facts. I don't see what kind of response you expected, since your statement was correct. I wasn't trying to discern your alignment, I was asserting what I thought your alignment was, with confidence. Not having active doubts and waffles after already discerning your alignment is not something I am uncomfortable with. Before you have a fit about "how can you refuse to question your reads", notice I use the word active. I play with a style where I am constantly confident I am right, but I change what I am right about as the need arises. You saw this first hand, and I can adapt to new information. I just don't doubt myself until new information arrives. You had and have chances to prove me wrong, but you could not do that by answering any questions I had. You would have to do something I did not expect you to do to change my mind. I don't think I ignored RAD, but I can't remember who I actually answered, so I probably ignored several people until I finally answered. I stand by not answering when I said no because I have gained more info from people reacting to my gauntlet throw than I would have if I gave my reasons and saw lazy "I don't agree" or "I'll sheep that" posts. I had reasons to throw down and not answer until later similar to how you had reasons to throw nothing down and then come out with reads later. I think my method is more investigative because I am actively affecting how much information is gained before I reveal things instead of just waiting until a certain time to say anything, though.

He is correct that I have only played the one game, but I am also confident in my experience, and I have no reason to doubt my strongest instincts in both games. Small sample sizes are irrelevant when it comes down to how I feel about it. It's disingenous to say I think shitposting makes you scummy. I've denied that several times. It's your tone. You can't do anything to defend against that aside from show genuine solving and town motivation like you had last game, but that doesn't mean you can defend yourself against something I didn't say. You can't shake me by misrepping me.

What reads are you re-evaluating? As of which post did start you have reads/what set you on your path? What felt tonally off about Bart to you? How does it fit in with this town vs town narrative? You know my stance, but: If he can get away with it as town, he can get away with it as scum. If he can get away with it as scum, then it's not necessarily a bad play. This is WIFOM at best. You have to decide what you think is actually happening in this game instead of what you think makes sense in most cases. That said, I've said this before: it is not that he is hiding his reads and being uncooperative. There are cases where doing those is a valid town strategy. What's scummy about it is the way he's going about it and how he is handling challenges. His emotional range is defensive, self-preserving and not investigative at all. Just for shits and giggles, I'm going to reply to Fable's posts, to make sure I didn't miss anything. He said he asked me two questions. Hopefully I've already answered them. This gif was his first post in response to my vote on him. Assuming this broad question was directed at me, I personally don't need the content of a post to be game related for the reason for making the post to be game related. I try to reason out why you made a post instead of what the content means, so I can read into anything, including when, where, how and why you made a shitpost. Depends on the person making the post. If the behavior is unpredictable, it's different from being predictable and alignment indicative. I don't think anything I have commented on qualifies as random or independent of motivations related to the game. I assume this was the question asked to me. I got strong scum vibes from your entrance and re-entance posts, and see distinct differences in tone and intensity compared to the last game, where I knew you were town right off the bat. I've said this to others several times. Not a question, but I did reply to it. I responded to this question by actually explaining what I meant by thunderdoming or what I think people will see as thunderdoming, so think it's kind of weird if this is the second question he was talking about. Not a question, but I did reply to it. I'm struggling to come up with what I ignored except for the leading "Why are you obsessed with me?" question, which has been answered a few times over.