zahlman

We're doing Eirika's route btw yes?

The point is to force people to eliminate or at least minimize their use. Leave units at low HP and keep them out of combat until they can be healed, where possible. Take some chances. Put that "ohshitohshithowdoImakethiswork" feeling back into FE, the kind you got on your first FE6 HM run. Besides, theming. I'd really prefer to alter this as little as possible - and keep the discussion to people who have joined. Unless you're indicating that your desire to join is contingent on this. Which it isn't, because you already said you don't want to draft HHM (unless I greatly misunderstood). Horace: All of us already knew you were insane. I'm insane, too, just not quite as good at being insane. :D

Wow, started already? Franz.

So, completely standard? I'll play.

Thought about it some more. How about this: - Only Serra uses staffs - Anyone can use Vulnerary, Pure Water and Antitoxin, but they may not be purchased; you have to rely on what you can steal and the ones that come with characters. - Either: No Elixir, period. (It's not like Serra will generally need them with her typical HP totals) OR: a significant turn bonus for each Elixir use available at the end (so you have incentive to steal them or find them in chests); you can still use them but still can't buy them.

As many of you know, I'm a programmer, but I don't really have meaningful experience with reversing ASM. Anyone happen to know offhand where the routines are for damage calculations? I have no doubt about my ability to determine what they do currently or how to alter them (I have an idea for a hack) but I also have no real idea of how to go about locating them in order to make the changes. Ideally I'd like to replicate this for 6, 7 and 8. TIA

Damn it, hit 'quote' instead of 'edit'. I can has delete-own-post button?

Yes. Very much so. But that's okay; it often takes people a long time to get through this stage even if they're smart. Many, many new programmers have unrealistic expectations. Programming is not some menial task; it's a kind of crafting, a professional skill. And like all professional skills, it takes a long time to get really up to speed with them. It's the kind of thing that you can legitimately be an expert at. Being an expert at things is often estimated to take about 10,000 hours of practice spread over a good ten years or so. Until you start looking at real OOP languages instead of toys like the ones that are currently popular. That's kinda trolling, but OOP means many different things to many different people. The ideas can be taken much further than languages like Java take them. Python, for example, doesn't have integer primitives (so there is also no auto-boxing as there is no need for it), so you always have reference semantics instead of value semantics. Also, functions are objects and you can pass them around as parameters to other functions with no extra work. (You can sort of do that in C++ with function pointers, but the type annotations get very annoying, and they don't really behave like objects because you pretty much literally just have a pointer to code within your executable.) But that's child's play compared to some other languages. In Smalltalk, often cited as the original OOP language, there is actually no construct in the grammar of the language for if statements. Instead, booleans are objects that have an ifTrue and an ifFalse method, each taking one parameter which is a function that gets called if the internal state of the boolean is true or false respectively. (For hopefully obvious reasons, this is implemented at the language level rather than the library level.) You're not at all full of BS, but I thought I'd blow expand your mind further. Python is not hard. It was designed to be easy - but in the good way, where it grows with you instead of eventually just getting in your way. It just looks a little unfamiliar to people who have already learned some other popular languages. In many ways, it makes more sense. For example, iterating directly over containers (instead of working with an index) is default; you have to go a bit out of your way to get indices (which is good, because you generally don't really need the index, and shouldn't confuse the reader of the code by pretending you do). FWIW, Guido van Rossum actually counts contemporary versions of BASIC among the inspirations for early versions of Python. Also, Python is older than Java, even though it took longer to get anyone's attention.

The neat thing IMO about Ragefest is that the community actually collectively figures out things about good challenging game design through the process. We're forced to elucidate why we find certain things to be a legitimate or illegitimate source of challenge and/or frustration.

Well, Serra has 2 MAG and E staves to start, and I figure she's kinda irked (pun intended) that a common preparation available at almost every Shop is 5/6 as effective as she is. Really, though, I did want to make something where it will be challenging just to get through. There are a lot of rewards (literally hundreds of turns available to each team) for a reason. It's also very much the sort of challenge I used to try for myself a while back. I can confirm that LHM can be done pretty effectively without Vulneraries or Serra, BTW. Story time: the first time I ever played through HHM, I was completely broad-sided by Cog of Destiny. Didn't have any Pure Water and I hadn't really sought to obtain Barrier or Restore, either. I also didn't know anything about how the reinforcements work for the chapter, and I had been taking things one chapter at a time without really thinking about building an effective team. I was also still in the "lol use your growth units so they can be pwnsome at the end and bench Marcus" stage (it used to be hard to avoid that kind of advice, or get advice to the contrary). I eventually figured out a way through, though. So I'm pretty confident that this sort of thing can be done. I can change it to a turn penalty for Vulnerary specifically if everyone agrees, though. Say 2 turns per use? P.S. I think the idea of skilled players struggling to avoid turn penalties on defend chapters is hilarious. I did say this would be sadistic. And yes, I will be torturing myself with this draft. It's only fair.

Listen up, folks. This is not your mother's draft. It's Serra's. Which means a whole new level of annoyance. Fortunately, Serra is merciful (thank Elimine!) and there will be many opportunities to accumulate turn bonuses. Some of them are automatic if you don't completely derp, but OTOH you're going to be playing HHM, paying for Marcus' assistance, and dealing with some other unique constraints. I really have no idea how the turn counts are going to work out, but a lot of thought has been put into the rules (both to fit the theme and to make them playable... the exact numbers have been given a fair amount of consideration). I'll hand the mic over to Serra now. (EDITED WITH FIXES. I even fixed Serra's introduction because I care so much. In case I messed up the flavour-text somehow, the table summary is authoritative.) Helllll-ooooo~~~~! [Ed.: Emphasis on "hell", IMO] All these would-be drafters are here to see ME? How wonderful! *nod* Let's get started then, shall we? This draft is for five brave adventurers, who will escort me through Lyn Hard mode and Hector Hard mode. It is a SOYO draft which will be conducted in the usual way... 1 picks for 2, 2->3, 3->4, 4->5, 5->1, 5->4, 4->3, 3->2, 2->1, 1->5. There are a total of 30 draftable units once everything else is sorted out, so we'll be doing that back-and-forth thingy three times. What? No, that totally was not innuendo! I'm innocent I tell you We're using zahlman's usual procedure for what undrafted units can and can't do. Units on the field have no restrictions once they get there, whether it's because they're forced, recruited in that chapter, common, or a fielded draft. Undrafted units can't be fielded at all, unless otherwise noted. Everyone gets to use me, of course. [Ed.: She just can't avoid innuendo...] Also Merlinus and Athos, because that only makes sense. We'll toss in Hector and Lyn, as well, because they're the lords (even though I know I'm the REAL star of this story). Besides, they're awesome! Lyn is such a strong woman and Hector is just dreamy. Hmm, who else... well, I couldn't leave out my beloved Erky-poo, of course, and we'll need that charming rogue Matthew, too. Hmm? 'rogue' is an FE8 promoted class? Oh, never mind. Anyway, he's in, too. You're going to neeeeed a thief for this one. Trust me~~~ How about Marcus? Hmm... well... I didn't really want to give any breaks, but I'll cut you guys a deal. You can field Marcus for the special low price of 3 turns per chapter where he's used. This is the only time I'll let you field an undrafted unit! And only because you're really going to need the help~~~ [Ed. I tried Ch 14 with everyone but Marcus, under the given conditions, and it's slow and hellish to recruit Erk and save the south village.] But I still want to reward people who can do without, you know? Tee-hee! Hrm, what else do we need to deal with... some of these guys have special recruitment requirements, so let's take care of that. We'll take out Bartre, Priscilla and Nils from the draft list, and add them automatically to the teams that need them. So if you got Karla you also get Bartre; if you got Ninian then you also get Nils (okay, that's not a requirement, but they're really the same unit anyway - SHHHH! ); if you got Lucius or Raven (or both), you also get Priscilla. Not that she'll do you any good~~~ [Ed. The team with Lucius does not need or get Raven, because he's usable in that chapter anyway once Priscilla recruits him. Similarly, Nino and Jaffar are separate.] We'll get rid of Geitz and Wallace because they always cause problems, and hrm... one more... okay, Fiora. Those three may not be recruited! Hmph! [Ed. The reason for excluding Fiora is that we'd have to give Florina to that team in order for her to be recruitable, and that would be an unfair bonus. Or else that team would automatically eat a non-recruitment penalty and lose a draft slot, which is also horribly unfair.] Okay... that leaves 30, exactly! I'm glad I was paying attention in numbers class, unlike Hector On to the special requirements First off, since I'm the star of the show, you have to field me in every chapter I'm available and you can't let me die, even in Final. Also, I will claim the last point in Chapter 6, and at least one point in Chapter 25. [Ed. If you've never had her claim the last point in Chapter 6 before... I hope you enjoy the quote.] Oh, and there's this little matter of Afa's Drops... you'll be giving those to me, right? Riii-ight~~~? I mean, who else would you rather see on your combat results screen than adorable, perfect MOI? Healing people, and using non-combat magic, is my job, as your representative of St. Elimine. Therefore, only I will use staves. Sorry, Prissy. You can still meatshield and stuff after you're done with your recruitment. OH WAIT tee-hee And yes, of course I can use Warp and Rescue, why wouldn't I be able to? Healing items will also have to be severely restricted, of course. I'm not going to allow you to purchase any, so you'll have to make do with what you can, er, beg, borrow or steal. I understand, I can't be everywhere at once, so you'll need them sometimes. With careful planning that should be enough. IT BETTER BE Ahem. I also want to see you guys make only the most effective uses of rescuing, so I'm assessing a 1-turn penalty for each use of the following commands: Rescue, Take, Drop, Give. Unless of course, I'm the one being moved around. After all, I'm the star of the show, why shouldn't I be able to travel in comfort and luxury? (Even if it is with that creep Sain...) Finally, I can't let you guys slack off, so it will cost 15 turns for failure to recruit each member of your team. That includes Erk! Don't you dare leave my Erky-poo alone by himself with all those dangerous Knights and Cavaliers D: Okay, okay, that's enough mean talk. Time to offer some rewards! Remember that bit about Matthew earlier? I'm looking for gems. Pretty, shiny gems for my jewellery collection. Oh, and those rings Ninian uses are pretty, too. Let me have those, please. I'll pay you 20 turns for a White Gem, 5 turns for a Blue Gem and 2 turns for a Red Gem. For the rings, I'll give you 1 turn per remaining use, so up to 15 per ring. Obviously, those gems don't count if you sell them. You can have 5 turns per use of Elixir as well (so 15 for a full one), because collecting those and not using them shows me that you're really dedicated to the cause. Thank you~~~ It also gives Matthew a little more to do. Silly boy [Ed. I'm pretty sure Matthew is actually older than Serra.] I should also get lots of support from my, er, "special" friends. I'll give you 10 turns per support conversation with me, no matter who it's with. NO THAT DOES NOT MAKE ME A WHORE IT MAKES ME A SOCIALITE! Hmm, what am I forgetting~~~ Oh, right, there are some formalities about turn counting and so forth... We're going to count turns for chapters as the game counts them. So if you get rid of that pesky Eubans on the last turn, that'll actually be worth something Also, every gaiden is optional. Even 31x! Instead of a turn allowance for each one, I'm going to give a 5 turn credit for each completed gaiden (so 31x basically costs you a turn). Did you get all that? Heavens, I do tend to ramble, don't I? Sorry about that. Fortunately, zahlman was taking notes while I was speaking, and prepared a summary. Drafting: 1. This is a SOYO draft for 5 people. The game will be played as LHM + HHM. 2. Hector, Lyn, Serra, Erk, Matthew, Athos and Merlinus are common. 3. Fiora, Geitz and Wallace are banned and may not be recruited. 4. Marcus is not available for drafting; he may be fielded for a special 3 turn cost. 5. Priscilla is added to the teams with Raven and Lucius; Bartre is added to the team with Karla; Nils is added to the team with Ninian. Thus, available characters for drafting, in alphabetical order, are: Canas Dart Dorcas Eliwood Farina Florina Guy Harken Hawkeye Heath Isadora Jaffar Karel Karla Kent Legault Lucius Louise Lowen Ninian Nino Oswin Pent Rath Raven Rebecca Renault Sain Vaida Wil Procedure: 1. Chapters are counted as the game counts them. Ch 4 is 8 turns, etc. 2. Undrafted units other than Marcus may not be fielded. Once on the map, a unit may do anything (subject to the common restrictions), no matter whether the unit was forced, common, fielded as a drafted unit, or recruited during the chapter. 3. You pick your path through the game and every gaiden is optional. There is no turn allowance, but instead a turn credit. 4. Only Serra may use any staff, or any Vulnerary, Elixir, Pure Water or Antitoxin (the items with staff-like effects). This means Priscilla is effectively useless beyond recruiting Raven. 5. Serra must claim the last point in Ch 6, and at least one point in Ch 25. She must be fielded at every opportunity, and not die, even in Final. 6. Vulneraries, Elixirs, Pure Waters and Antitoxins (the items with staff-like effects) may not be purchased. (I guess technically I should have excluded door keys, but really who cares) Summary of bonuses and penalties: (negative numbers are bonuses... signed arithmetic for the win) -20 White Gem -** Dancer ring: 1 per remaining use, so up to 15 each -** Elixir: 5 per remaining use, so up to 15 each -10 Support with Serra (each conversation, regardless of level or character) -5 Blue Gem -5 Completed Gaiden -2 Red Gem 1 Rescue/Drop/Take/Give (Except Serra). You're responsible for counting these up as you go. 3 Marcus fielded 15 Failure to recruit (includes Erk!) GTFO Other undrafted unit fielded GTFO Purchase of Vulnerary, Elixir, Pure Water or Antitoxin GTFO Unit other than Serra uses a staff GTFO Serra doesn't claim a point in Ch 25, or the last point in Ch 6 GTFO Serra is not fielded in a chapter, or dies in Final. 'Ooh! Why me? This is SO annoying!' GTFO Afa's Drops not given to Serra Of course, you can just restart if you mess up; I won't care if you mention you had to restart several times to keep Serra alive or whatever. To qualify, gems and dancer rings must be in your possession at the end of the game (either in Supply or in some character's inventory). Some notes: 13x costs you 3 turns. Whether that's worthwhile for early gold in HHM is up to you, but I doubt it personally. Jerme's map has a White gem; Kenneth's map has a Blue Gem. But Jerme's map obviously takes a fair bit longer, depending on your team, and is annoying. Choose wisely. You might not be able to avoid taking the hit for Marcus in 28. Oh well. You have the option. 28x has a dancer ring and a Blue Gem, so you can get up to 25 turns of credit for that gaiden. Warpskipping 32x might allow a net gain in turns. 23 has a White Gem (Jasmine) and a dancer ring (sand); you really don't want to miss those. Of course, this being the HHM desert... good luck Lyn can get a White Gem if you are frugal in LHM. You may have to make tough choices. Florina obviously still saves a bunch of turns in LHM, but not as many as normal. Healing items have moved to a prohibition on purchase plus a turn bonus for Elixirs, so try to conserve them, but don't worry about the few maps where you don't have Serra (not that they're really a problem...) I hope everyone noticed that last one I snuck in! Participants, now in actual drafting order: General Horace: Karel, Jaffar, Oswin, Eliwood, Ninian, Kent(, Nils) Whitefang: Renault, Farina, Legault, Vaida, Harken, Raven(, Priscilla) Naglfar: Louise, Wil, Dart, Guy, Heath, Sain Zahlman: Nino, Rebecca, Rath, Dorcas, Isadora, Lowen Silver Harpoon: Karla, Canas, Lucius, Hawkeye, Pent, Florina(, Priscilla, Bartre)

I actually have been idly pondering the idea of putting together one long mega-story. Such a marathon could be extended even further: I was thinking the FE6 and FE7 tutorials could be replaced with something set in the time of the Scouring (where you play a few chapters as the Eight Legends versus Dragons), as well as having something set in the far future that's alluded to in the FE6 epilogue. Oh, and Cecilia's tale as filler in between EN and 6 (or maybe EN chapters could be "meanwhile..." gaidens to Cecilia's tale), and a Lilina mode for 6 analogous to Hector's tale in 7. Pipe dreams...

brb, dreaming of how awesome I will look when I rewrite the whole thing in like 1/10 as much python

Well... it might not have to be that 'hard' coded... if some unused bit were found in the item struct, it could be used to indicate the 'negate effectiveness' property, and then the delphi shield coding could be rewritten to check for that bit in each inventory item, instead of checking for the delphi shield and only for fliers. Actually, wait, I guess it'd have to be a separate bit for each effectiveness type, since otherwise you could give the delphi shield to an armor and it would be like 'lol armorslayer, no problem, I have an effectiveness-negation item'.

Oh, it's only for crit evade. Never mind, then. Although I still don't really see the argument for giving mooks Luck. I guess, but they can be given other advantages. I think it's just more that steel is exceptionally heavy. Or at least, that's the intent, anyway. With tomes, they also get strictly more powerful by the rank, except for dark which is weird. Whereas with weapons you have iron/steel/silver and then everything else is special purpose. Oh, speaking of which: Blades are also stupid and pointless, and don't make swords any better overall. Yes, you have to survive EP to have an EP. I think tome users are supposed to accomplish this by having decent speed growth so that they can just sit in a forest and tank once trained. They also almost never face WTD.

>mfw people actually play, or ever played, Link Arena. o_O

Let's bring back x3 effectiveness. Horseslayers are completely loltastic in 7 because even against cavalry, they do the same damage as silver and are heavier and less accurate and more expensive per use. That's just stupid. Compare to 6: Horseslayer!Miledy OHKOs the cavs on her join level and does massive damage to the pallies. Fuck yeah. x3 effectiveness would also help Eliwood and Lyn a bunch, as their Prf weapons have WTD against the things they're effective against while Hector has WTA and effectiveness against the same enemies. Granted that makes the Wolf Beil even stronger, but it's already OHKOing all over the place so it doesn't really matter. Finally, it's kind of sad the way that, when Bartre finally gets access to an Iron Bow, it's barely any better than a Steel Axe even against peggies. If some weapons become OP with x3 effectiveness, their Mt can be scaled back a couple points. Re bows: I support the 2-3 range change. Also, get rid of Longbows (since they're no longer meaningful) and Short Bows (which are just stupid and useless anyway), and add one with infantry and/or cavalry effectiveness (EN-style Cleave Bow). This doesn't give them a meaningful enemy phase (and they shouldn't and never will have one without 1-range, except (a) against other archers (b) in very specific map situations where a bunch of 1-2 range enemies can't get adjacent to them, in which case they deserve to pwn), it just gives them a player phase so they don't suck. I also like the idea of better speed bases for Wil and Rebecca. Louise is fine. The "hell for the player when the enemy has lots of archers" problem is fixed by map design: don't put lots of archers on rout maps, and on other maps, stick them behind walls (which also actually makes sense). Archers should continue to have crappy resilience because they aren't enemy phase units. Crit boost for Snipers is good. Also for FE8. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than that stupid Sure Shot skill. Speaking of which, I'd also give it to Falcoknights, instead of the Sword rank which is pretty useless for them. That way, there's one class with Critical for each weapon type. Luck for generic enemies is a really bad idea IMO. Having to restart because of random 1% crits is rage-inducing, and it doesn't really make the game more challenging in a meaningful way. The Wallace/Geitz choice is... eh, to be honest, I don't really like the whole choosing alterate routes thing in the first place, so meh. Double meh because it's for a single chapter at a time. At least in FE6, the Sacae vs Ilia thing (a) is meaningful since you get 4 or 5 consecutive different chapters, and (b) makes sense for the plot in a way that doesn't just seem like a hand-wavy "well, it could have happened this way, or that way, and it doesn't really matter". Roy has to go east to get to Bern, and he can take the high road or the low road, so... Eliwood and Lyn. Yeah. Agreed that the legendaries should have reasonable weights (I don't think Roy and Lyn taking AS loss from a Silver Sword is really that big of a deal, since they're supposed to be fast units), and give Lyn better Str growth and Eliwood better Def growth. Maybe nerf Hector's Def base a bit. The Dragon battle has issues. There's lolLuna, and then there's "you must accumulate 38 or 40 hp to survive" which is silly for basically the same reason that lolLuna is. I like the idea of dragon breath having insane Mt, but being mitigated by both Def AND Res. Also, it shouldn't be dodgable. I know Lyn is a ninja, but when she sidesteps and it somehow protects her from a giant cloud of flame, it just seems ridiculous (I mean more so than dodging ordinary magic does). Maybe the Dragon could also be immune to crits? (It would be silly for the Dragon to be wearing a human artifact like an Iron Rune for this purpose, IMO; it should just be an intrinsic immunity, the same as how Silencer doesn't work on everything.) Or have some kind of area attack? Something to actually make you think tactically? The mages in the towers seem intended for that purpose, but they're kinda lame, and their presence is a plothole. (Ditto the General reinforcements in pt 1, btw.) Battle Before Dawn's luck-based-ness is very irritating, yes. I don't think Zephiel needs to be more durable. It does need to take longer for enemies to get to him. I don't think Jaffar needs to be more durable, if he can be made less stupid somehow (e.g. make him less aggro, raise his HP threshold for using an Elixir). I don't think Nino needs to be more durable, because nobody really goes after Nino except that one Monk. Although it would be nice for Nino to not suck so much just so that she's more useful in the subsequent chapters. Speaking of which, it would be nice if Nino wanting to talk to her brothers in CoD were, you know, not a trap. Karel does need a buff to compete with Harken. The Wo Dao is a completely silly thing to cite as an advantage for him, as it has a magnificent 20 uses, and has no advantage over a Killing Edge except for even moar critical rate (which is silly as a swordmaster with a KE already has a crit rate high enough to be relied upon), unless you're giving it to one of its other potential users and the prevention of AS loss somehow makes the difference between doubling and not doubling. Seriously, you might as well say Guy > Raven simply becomes he comes with a KE, except that would actually make more sense to me. Tome weights... making them lighter is a good idea. Using the FE6 values is not. With FE6 values, tome weight would be pretty much irrelevant most of the time. Let's break it down: Anima - Excluding magic that's only available for the final chapter, and long-range magic (and I actually like the idea of that continuing to have a Wt of 20 because it lets you use actual strategy against Ursula and Sonia and Limstella), even Nino would see no AS loss from anything once promoted. Fimbulvetr would still not slow down Pent with its 8 Wt. Light - Excluding magic that's only available for the final chapter, and long-range magic, you again wouldn't be weighed down with anyone, unless we somehow decided to leave Shine at a Wt of 8 while Lightning weighed 1 and Divine 3. Dark - Again with the same exclusions, Canas would not be weighed down by Flux or Nosferatu. He would still be weighed down by Fenrir, but does anyone really use Fenrir? And you'd still have to decide what to do with Luna's weight. FWIW, though, I do like the idea of Nosferatu not weighing four-fucking-teen. Finally, the lightning round: Yes. Hell yes. Hell no. Yes. That first one makes more sense to me. But sure, why not. Actually, one idea I was toying with is that Nergal drops a Dragonstone that Nils can use. Ninils could actually have a real Str growth for the rest of the game, and then it would finally actually have a purpose at the end. I already said no, damn it. Why do so many people like this idea?

Oh god and you only have one unit with double-digit DEF. Good luck sir. I guess Dart should be able to handle the wyverns if he doesn't get too unlucky.

I can't imagine this being done except by actually handing out a patch. In which case Nightmare is irrelevant except for the person actually making the patch (which only needs to be done once); you only need... any UPS patcher.

Tana was already taken.

The teams were: Dr. Will (i.e. Baldrick - took me a while to clue in on that one): Lott, Lugh, Astohl, Miredy, Igrene, Fa Naglfar: Marcus, Allen, Rutger, Saul, Echidna Second Pronoun: Lance, Bors, Ellen, Dorothy, Zealot, Treck, Noah, Wendy, Barth, Oujay, Fir, Klein, (Ray), Hugh, (Zeis), Niime, Juno Eclipse: Wolt, Dieck, Chad, Clarine, Geese, Wade, Merlinus Lorddomu: Cath, Douglas Ray and Zeis are in brackets because those characters are impossible to recruit per the rules and the way the drafting worked out. Read the thread for context on why the teams are so random and unfair. I also did it with no drafts just for fun: only Roy and Cecilia, plus every forced or recruitable character only for the chapters where they're forced or recruitable (i.e. only Roy and Cecilia can be fielded, but there are otherwise no restrictions). 528 turns. P.S. I noticed that your FE7 generic rules have different free characters (serra vs ninils) for normal vs hard mode. It might be worth adding a note that the 'units remaining' list needs to be edited accordingly.

I can prepare sheets for portraits given the ripped graphics. I'm good with that sort of thing.

The problem was my Roy was actually Str screwed the whole way through in addition to Def screwed (although Spd and Skl blessed), and caught up majorly in Str in Ch22. It caused some real problems in 12 and 13 (although the extra avoid from the Spd was appreciated, since he basically was forced to be a ninja dodge tank for large portions of the game, especially those two chapters).

Unit analysis tiem! ATHOS Is Athos. Did most of the heavy lifting in final. 'Nuff said. MARCUS Marcus gonna Marcu. He capped exp in an LTC run while most enemies gave him pathetic exp. That kinda says it all. No idea how Baldrick only got him to lv 15, really. I'm guessing Horace capped him during final? HARKEN Basically MVP from his recruitment onward. Even without HHM bonuses his stats are just ridiculous. Marcus and Lowen have to rescue-chain him in a couple of places because of only having 6 move. The only downside is that you get him (instead of Karel) by "doing poorly" on those maps, but that didn't really matter since I wasn't about to open a bunch of doors early on Ch 20 anyway - too hard to move around. LOWEN A solid effort. He built up a pretty decent buffer for tanking stuff, but it wasn't good enough for final (so I benched him) because of bad Speed, and his bad Str also meant he couldn't do much more than chip in other late-game chapters. ELIWOOD The King. The most important unit, but also rather weak. He was OHKOd and doubled by the Dragon, even though he was HP-blessed (missing only one HP gain out of 15 level-ups - granted, he's expected to make 12 of them). I used him quite a bit less than other teams managed to... but yeah, compared to averages for 13/4, he had (with some rounding) +2 HP, -3 STR, = SKL, -1 SPD, -2 LUK, +4 DEF, -1 RES. So fairly average overall, but really weird overall. SERRA Yay for not being screwed out of a healer. I used her more than most other teams, and she got to fight in Ch 30 and even take out a couple of units. She was also massively MAG-blessed, with close to average stats everywhere else. I should have used her in final. BARTRE YO DAWG I HERD YOU LIKE BOTTOM TIER UNITS SO I PUT BARTRE ON YOUR TEAM SO HE CAN COST TURNS WHILE HE FAILS TO SAVE TURNS. I can't believe I actually tried to make use of this guy. He did, to his credit, make the 5-turn possible on Ch19 by OHKOing some Knights with the Hammer that were in the way of Marcus and Eliwood's march. However, I failed to 5-turn Ch13 even though I had him to break the snag, and because I let him get more exp than Serra + Canas, he effectively cost me like at least 10 turns by giving me Jerme's map. I also brought him to final, where he did nothing except some rescues/drops. Bosses all doubled the shit out of him and 10 def/res is not really that much against the legendary weapons. I should have brought Serra to final instead. CANAS I couldn't get Luna efficiently in Ch 19, and I missed it in the desert (apparently it's dropped by a shaman, but I guess Pent picks him off first). And that's the only thing that really makes him awesome. As is, he was still decent, because he could Nosferatu-tank fairly effectively, and had decent speed and not horrible durability even without Nosferatu. LOUISE I stole her away from Kngt_Of_Titania >:) She mostly used Killers and got lots of crits, many of them unnecessary. She also picked off some key units with the Longbow, which was very much appreciated. Although in many cases she could have done better if she just had an extra point of movement :P RENAULT Better known as "Fortify". Although I let him use it instead of Serra in final because I figured he'd actually be able to not die if he had to face a round of combat. Turns out that keeping your healers away from the bosses is not so hard, and I should have used both. WALLACE Saving the "best" for last. I think I should get honourable mention for actually semi-intentionally roleplaying this guy. He basically was always wandering off, never moving forward with the main pack. When there was somewhere else he could go with enemies (wyverns on Jerme's map, center on VoD) he was amazing (although really only necessary for Jerme's map). When there wasn't, he was completely useless. He picked off the Bishop in Ch26 basically just so I could listen to Victory Road a bunch. And then he got himself killed in the final chapter, a true general's death, because he wandered off too far and couldn't get back to safety.

The weird thing about this exercise is that it forced me to gain an appreciation of Cecilia. She's a weird unit. Her bases and growths are bad (and the fact that she starts in the middle of nowhere being practically unable to move) but everything else about her is amazing. I didn't even really think that was possible until I tried actually using her. But she has 8 mov, the ability to heal, and A anima (and anima is clearly the best magic in this game because dark is actually meaningfully heavy and light is still weak like in FE7) which gives her access to Aircalibur (7 doesn't have effective, non-legendary magic, so this makes anima seem even more awesome). And those bad stats always seem to be good enough once she's levelled up (as she was obviously forced to be in this playthrough). She always seemed to have just enough speed for me, ending up with 16 (with 2xSpeedwings) which actually doubles a lot of enemies even in late game. Also, I would characterize her start as more sandy than rocky. ;P My Roy got 6 levels more than yours in Ch22, and ended up with 2 points less of Def. Now that's screwage. He did eventually manage 21 str though (including one Energy Ring) and 24 Spd and Skl.