Sunwoo
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Posts posted by Sunwoo
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I ... um.
Sigh.
I know I just posted about voting and shit, but the switch to Refa kinda rubs me the wrong way, since he just put Refa at deadline lynch when we still have almost a day left in the game.
Also, it's just so damn weird that despite replying to BBM defending his stance on votes, he immediately switches over after my post. Like how he tabled going after BBM after I told him he looked like he was tunneling.
I feel like I'm tunneling now, but I just don't feel better about Makaze. His behavior doesn't really make sense for either town or scum, but considering that people are kinda letting him get away with it I could still see this as coming from scum.
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*unhelpful in pushing the game along
I miss being able to edit my posts ;/
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4 minutes ago, Makaze said:
My vote should move when impacts the elimination, and I don't see a reason to change it for appearances
I really hate this logic.
People get scared by having votes on them, which can sometimes get them to crack or slip or otherwise produce more telling reads. Putting your vote on someone helps other players see where your priorities are, pick apart your reasoning if it's bad and decide if it comes from scum or not, and get an idea of where they need to consolidate. What you're advocating is being useless and helpful in pushing the game along, and being passive.
Are you guys absolutely sure you don't want to try lynching Makaze today? Are we no longer testing lynchproof claims now? I'm advocating a vig shot on Makaze if we don't lynch him today.
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2 minutes ago, Makaze said:
You guys place a lot more emphasis on vote parking than post analysis, and I'm not sure why you think votes mean anything unless they lead to an elim. Votes are performative unless they change something, and I don't see a reason to move off of Bluedoom except to save one of my town reads, who are not at the top at the moment
What kind of logic even is this
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I'm here, but I feel like I'm going to pass out so I'm not going to stick around for too long.
Refa: The current votes on Marth are Makaze and Snike, right? I don't have an issue with Snike's vote, I think he explained it well enough. As for Makaze ... I don't even remember why he's voting Marth, so ... He's doesn't even really seem to be pushing the vote either, so ... ;/ PEDIT: Cam's post reminded me that reasoning for the vote was "general weird feeling and could be scum with BBM". Okay yeah, Makaze's vote is pretty bad and I don't think I liked it earlier either.
If there was anyone else who'd been on the Marthwagon in the past you wanted me to discuss, please specify.
Gut/meta read, but I feel like Percivale is townie as of now to me. He would've been busy IRL regardless of alignment, but he's putting in efforts into giving reads despite that. A hypothetical scum!Percivale probably would've used being busy to justify putting off reads, which isn't what he's doing.
Speaking of Cam, I guess his latest post makes me feel a little better about him, but I can't really explain why right now.
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Just now, Shinori said:
Does town!Refa really go Makaze in that situation if they are getting wagon'd? I kind of don't want Refa lynched personally but I'm gonna think on it more, I'm sitting on close to 20 ish hours of no sleep or something so I maybe in a haze.
Go to sleep, dude -
2 minutes ago, charlie_ said:
I don't think Marth has been focusing you very much tbh, but why do you think their read on you should've changed? I don't see a scum benefit in particular for keeping hold of the read and it's not like Marth is only focusing you because they've been pushing other reads on me and Refa today so it's not like they'd struggle to find something to do if they switched off.
It's not so much that I think it should've changed, but that I get this feeling that they've come to a conclusion first and are giving justification for why what I do is still scummy rather than actually reevaluating and deciding that despite everything my slot still feels scummy.
Also, I'm very aware that Marth isn't kirsche, but the way Marth's later read on me is explained gives me hard Inception scum!kirsche vibes. (A game in which you, j00, and I were also scum.) He would gives reasons for why people were scum, tiering them in order of scumminess, and even after various interactions and flips happened he'd never actually change his reads, arguing "actually, X could do this as scum too". It's mostly this post of Marth's that rubs me the wrong way and gives me Inception scum!kirsche vibes.
I don't think he needs to take a 180 on me here. But for someone who stated earlier that all I'm doing towards him is saying everything he does is bad and that I should look at it from the other side, he sure refuses to extend the same consideration to me!
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Just now, Percivalé said:
I talked about it last night, I can pull up the posts if you want and elaborate later. I've been flip flopping on him all game
If you're able to pull up the specific posts, that would help a lot.
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1 minute ago, charlie_ said:
I did get your reasoning for it ftr, it's just a weird vibe to me. Do you have any thoughts on Prims' more recent posts since then?
I'm pretty happy with him now. Would not vote, would not lynch, would not consolidate.
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Percivale, when you are able to, could you explain why you were iffy on Shinori earlier? Admittedly I might just missed it, but I don't remember you saying anything about him in prior posts.
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Sort of back, but I'll be less active today because I have some things I need to work on IRL. I'll still be checking the thread every once in a while, so feel free to ask me things.
I just feel very meh overall about Marth's slot. I don't really get a town lean from him but I'm not feeling scum the same way I do for other players. The SB-to-Refa vote is ... well, if I understand it correctly it's because he misattributed something Refa said to SB. But is SB still a scum read in anyway or no?
My biggest issue is his tunneling on me. It's just gives me the feeling of someone who's made up their minds and instead of actively trying to reevaluate their reads is just coming up with reasons as to why this thing I did is still scummy. That said, I actually don't really see it as scummy but it reads like a Marth thing. If I recall correctly, kirsche also played like this often. I do find it annoying even if not scummy though, so it's hard for me to form an objective read here. I wouldn't vote him personally and he's not my top D1 lynch choice, but I also wouldn't be upset if people consolidated on him.
SB just doesn't really stand out in my mind. I can't explain it, but I'm having a hard time remembering their stance on people and their reasonings. This could be on me, this could be the result of not playing mafia for like half a decade, but it kind of fucks me up that I'm reading SB as unmemorable. I could try reading them again later, but ugh. SB, I don't know if I missed it or something but how do you feel about Shinori now
Not interested in going after Elie and Cam as of now (unless they show up and do something lynchworthy), would advocate a hypothetical vig shot though. I'm trying to cut Percivale some slack because he's trying and stated outright he was busy.
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I should not be awake right now, but I'll be afk for some 1.5-2 hours in a little while so this is the best time I'll have for a catch up post.
Wish Makaze would stop being so cagey about everything. His "it will not be possible to eliminate me today" sounds like it could be a lynchproof claim, but with the amount of WTFery he's spewed out since the game started he could also be bullshitting us into believing that. His response to Prims on "pleading the third" and to j00 are making me doubt their claim is actually a claim even more. Like, nothing he's done has changed my read on him and I want him gone. Vote stays.
Question to thread, is Makaze actually a role that can't be lynched D1 or a bullshitter? And if you think he's scum, would you be willing to lynch him D1 even if he might be lynchproof? (PS: Autocorrect is stupid, it corrected "lynchproof" into "lunch-roof". How do you turn off the autocorrect on this site)
I didn't really touch Refa's big post earlier because I was super tired. I think Refa was always going to have vastly updated reads from what they last had just because a lot of stuff had happened before then. Honestly, I'm still not wholly comfortable with them because they just feel like they haven't been in the thick of the action, if that makes any sense, so you don't get to see their reads evolve in action so much as they post updated reads after everything that had happened. Still a slight scum read here, would consolidate but not vote at the moment.
Weapons Rapier case and the way he backed off it just didn't feel very good to me, it kind of felt like he was going after someone he felt was "caseable" and then dropped it when he couldn't defend it any longer, and ... well, voting Elie sure is a choice when he's been barely around. Would vote, would consolidate.
I, uh, need to go right now and haven't formed enough of a read on my one read through of SB's new stuff. To answer your question, I called out Prims's earlier lack of presence specifically because I'm used to Prims being generally more active early on, and because most of the other people who were gone had explicitly given reasons for being sparse so I didn't expect them to be around.
More later when I get back. Which is whenever I'll be back.
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So, uh, my last ticket summons ended up with a Brave Gullveig pull.
Please send help
(I've also had some other really lucky free summons/first pulls since that bonkers pull with four 5-stars, I'm worried that I've burned out my luck before the legendary banner already.)
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7 minutes ago, Prims said:
I hate using quotes now, but what stuck out to me to solidify this impression was that he is ambivalent about me in a way where he doesn't want a repeat of arguments from past games, because from my point of view my interactions with him in this game haven't been the same as in previous games? For one I wasn't really suspicious of him until he said that me not starting conflict with him was tilting, which was oddly self-conscious on his part. Like, there is this weird push-and-pull where he acts conflict avoidant with people then is pinged when they don't start conflict with him (I've pointed out him doing this with BBM and Snike in my past posts). Also even though I'm in his PoE, his responses to me seem more focused on shaking me off.
My read on this leans toward self-conscious scum, but I'm not sure if something happened to change his personality in the last however many years. I do admit it is difficult to tell where "Makaze the human being" and "Makaze the player with an alignment" begins and ends wrt responding to attacks on his play.I would like to add that on page 10, he said he was willing to table his BBM suspicions "for now" when I told him that I felt he was tunneling and I didn't think the basis of his BBM vote was good. Not sure if you'd consider it "submissive", but it still rubs me the wrong way that his immediate reaction was to drop the topic after a single post callout.
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6 minutes ago, Snike said:
Question: What do people think about the 1-2 of Rapier's RVS triple?
Honestly, I read it as Rapier being overly excited and not as anything alignment indicative. This is also the same person who once truthfully claimed doctor in RVS and confused everyone on whether it was a joke or not, so ... I mean. It doesn't really feel like anything to me.
24 minutes ago, Shinori said:@SunwooHow does weapons vote swap and complete 180 of their views towards rapier affect your read on them?
By "them" do you mean Weapons or Rapier or both?
If you mean Weapons, I think the 180 on Rapier in a vacuum isn't necessarily damning because a lot had happened since his "town lean on Rapier" post. But his actual read on Rapier feels ... questionable. If I understand correctly he voted Rapier because he's unreadable scummy but also thinks he might be using his reasoning manipulatively and because he "lacks doubt"? Can't say I quite get it.
I also wish I had a better handle on how he felt about everyone else? It feels like Rapier went to being their biggest scum read, but I am not sure where they stand on anyone else. I'm not great at reading Weapons, but if I had to make a flash decision I guess I'd say it leans more scummy than townie.
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Snike: Americans, of course XD
Makaze explaining that they're used to viewing games as a spectator does put some stuff in context, but ... I mean, like half the game had expressed frustration with his play/inability to understand his reasonings for reads and he either doubled down on them without explanation, or states in a rather passive manner that we just don't understand. And while a part of me thinks it's pretty audacious for scum, he's ... not getting nearly as much flak for it as I would think? I mean, yeah, he's getting some but only three people are voting him for it (and one of them has disappeared from the thread after making two posts).
I'm also just ... really frustrated by the alignment read stuff, the whole "X and Y are not likely to be on the same team" stuff. There's not a lot of reasoning as to why in these posts, and relies way too much on associative reads before we ever have a confirmed alignment reveal. The BBM stuff I've already stated so I don't see a point to saying it again. Overall I just feel like even though there are some improvements in his play, he just feels very passive about either pushing his scum reads or asserting his town reads. Even taking into account play style and trying more, I still don't get a town read from this.
To answer Weapons, I'm currently not getting scum intent from Rapier and his logic, but I will admit that I don't actually know how to read him. Currently not too interested in pursuing Rapier, but I will give him another read soon(ish).
Honestly, I'm kind of in a spot where I feel like my reads are stagnating and I'm not really getting anything new. I think it's because I feel like it's the same group of people clashing against one another so all my reads continue to be on those same people. I know there are other players in the game who haven't been able to post all that much, but because they're not currently present and their reads/interactions may be outdated now, it just seems to me like I'm missing too much to have reads I'm consider remotely complete. If you guys want me to elaborate on anything specific feel free to ask, but I'm gonna go inactive for a bit.
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So, here's a fun fact! I was making a post on how I feel about each player expressed via Sabaton song, but posting all those links there not only crashed SF, but my entire computer.
SF is too lame for amazing heavy metal, confirmed. Trash site.
BBM
Marth
BT
SB
Cam
Elie
j00
Makaze
Percivale
Prims
Rapier
Refa
Shinori (the Swedish version is better though)
Snike
WeaponsAnd on that note, I'm gonna do something else for a while. Be back later, I guess.
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2 minutes ago, j00 said:
Too-wack-to-be-scum. But I just think there's a massive culture clash here.
That's fair.
I still stand by my case that Makaze's not contributing to the game state in a meaningful way though, and it really doesn't improve my read on him that he keeps on doing more of the same stuff that I voted him for.
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j00, just for clarification's sake, are you reading Makaze as town/more-likely-town-than-scum or do you think he could be scum but he's just not a priority for the time being?
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Just now, Prims said:
I'm not a background presence the game has literally been going on for less than 24 hours. Rather the people posting too much are insane.
I do not contest that I am insane, and that I need to post less. I don't want to have the third highest number of posts here.
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I read Rapier's later posts. I don't really have an issue with them because I feel like he is making a town effort to give his reads on things and people. Can see his initial logic on Shinori, even if I don't agree with it, but I didn't have a problem with his reply to Shinori either. Still feel Rapier is more townie than not.
On reread I don't have an issue with Snike, although I'm struggling a bit to remember that he is playing. That said, that's a "me" problem and not a Snike problem, so for the time being I'm fine with him. Would not pursue.
3 hours ago, Makaze said:Is there a specific type of content that would help you relate to me?
Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner. Basically, it's hard to understand why you're scum reading someone when your main reason is that you're getting "weird vibes" and "gut feelings". The post you made right before this quoted one (which I failed to address at the time) made a better effort at explaining the BBM and Marth reads, by explaining why you think their actions or lack thereof felt scummy. But overall, it feels like your reasonings aren't very concrete. (I also don't agree with your BBM read, but that's neither here nor there.)
It's also odd that despite BBM being apparently your greatest scum read (even now) you're not really pursuing it and were even willing to table it when I called you out on tunneling.
Some other updated thoughts.
Prims and Weapons' absences are not amazing. As stated earlier, I didn't have an issue with Prims' actual content and stuff, but his lack of presence is just really concerning me at this point. I'm willing to give Prims up to D2 to establish a presence because I know they sometimes have trouble getting into the game D1 even as town, but still. Weapons felt like Weapons earlier in the day, but they seem to have just fallen off the radar. I'd say that his sudden disappearance and lack of content reminds me of Kirby mafia where he was scum, but that game is 12 years old and probably not great for meta. Either way, it's not a good look.
Would like Refa to explain why voting Makaze doesn't seem like a scum!me thing to do.
BT is fine. To answer your question from earlier, on why I couldn't see what the scum intent in Makaze buddying up was, it was mostly because of how early in the game it happened. He was doing it in a way that seemed so blatant and inexplicable that it felt like it was more likely to draw negative attention than not.
2 hours ago, charlie_ said:For future reference you should probably take “iffy” as synonymous with “kind of scummy” in my posts ftr. It’s just a phrasing thing.
Noted.
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Not actually back, sorry.
Slight negative gutread on SB. It's minor and not something I'm interested in pursuing now, but I think it's because of the amount of times they say someone (or something) is "iffy" or "weird" or "confusing". Like, it feels like they're noting that something bothers them but avoiding a more definite stance so they can go either way based on the thread's general opinion. I guess I just feel slightly worse about them than I feel good about them.
26 minutes ago, charlie_ said:I will say I'm not super sure on why Boron is shifting off of Refa now when their read sorta seems the same. Can you explain why Makaze is higher priority for you now because it feels like a bit of a toss-up.
In response to this though, it's because I felt that Makaze's faux-contributions just seem worse than what Refa is doing. Like, Makaze just has a higher content-to-noise ratio and gives a stronger illusion of actually contributing, which I thought was a bit worse.
Elie has basically one content post. It seems kinda rushed and feels a bit weak as a result. I'd like them to explain why they feel BBM is scum that's not just vibes. I don't disagree with their case on Makaze though. That said, Elie do you feel that Makaze and BBM interactions are coming from scum/scum or could be scum/town? I'd also just like to hear more from you in general. Overall, I'm not feeling terrible about Elie but I also feel like I don't have enough to work with either. Hope he reads pages 10/11 and comes back with updated thoughts.
1 hour ago, Bluedoom said:-I'm frustrated with Boron because it feels like I'm just being told that everything I said is bad when its like. Dude. Even if I'm wrong about you think from the other side lol. Doubling down and saying that everything I said sucked all along isn't conducive to discussion if that is your intention.
Do you not see how this could apply to you regarding me though? That this is how I think you're acting towards me? This applies to you just as much.
Don't really feel like analyzing Rapier's more recent stuff yet, will get to that later.
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I wasn't sure what to think about Makaze earlier in the game because the one game I remember playing with him, he did a bunch of things that felt scummy to me and was actually town. Reading back on his content though has made me realize how little substance he's actually had. The only thing he really seems to have committed to is "BBM is scum" for ... /reasons/, I suppose? His Marth vote also feels like it wants to be a BBM vote. His reasons for voting Marth are "all kinds of weirdness" (like what?) and "could be scum buddies with BBM". Yeah, uh, I could see Makaze being scum.
The BBM stuff also doesn't really contribute to the game and move it along either, because there are no actual reasons for it that someone else can go look at and decide for themselves whether they agree or not, but it can /look/ like they're contributing because they're still technically posting stuff about the game and its players.
You know what, it's definitely worse than I initially thought.
##Unvote
##Vote: @Makaze
Not contributing is one thing. But making it look like you are when you're not is a whole other thing.
PEDIT: Makaze's post above me kinda reinforces why I'm voting him, so.
Still have a scum read on Refa, they haven't really done anything to change my mind. I have no idea what their actual scum reads are currently besides still parking a vote on me. Their last post doesn't really give any actual thoughts except justifying their vote on me and that they wouldn't vote Marth despite not feeling great about him and not scum reading Shinori. I realize they haven't read everything, but even so it bothers me that I literally have no idea how they feel about other people they've asked questions/replied to.
Getting massively annoyed with Marth, so I think I'm going to step back from this until I'm less irritated. More interesting stuff has happened now that more people have posted, and considering that my biggest issue with him now is the tunnel vision and abrupt flip on me I think it's best if I look at that at a time when I'm less cranky.
I'm not gonna lie, I've got nothing for Elie and SB because I've been trying to reply to other stuff and their posts never really stuck in my brain. Throwing Elie and SB into the "read later" pile with Snike.
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1 minute ago, Snike said:
That wasn't me. Those were Prims positions. Just to be specific:
These are the reads I gathered from the post I linked. Bold is my emphasis.
and then I read the rest of the blurb and realized you were most likely talking about this bit:
Again, this is a distilled summary of what I understood of Prims reads at that time.
Will get back to you once the wall gets broken down.
Ah fuck, I've completely misread your post then. Sorry about that. I'll read through your stuff again, but it'll be a while later. I have this one extra post I'm trying to get out, and after I do that I'm going to do something else not mafia-related.
(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins! - Post Game is up!
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Hammer is 10 and ends the day instantly, but it takes 6 votes minimum to have a lynch at deadline.