Lord Raven

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I think a cheap Bowgun handles the laguz quite nicely.

The appearance of the Mercs was pretty much the only thing that it had going for it; I had thought of that, admittedly. At any rate, I'll look into Ike/Elincia's conversation a bit more. Part 2 seemed to be more like a "let's see how Crimea is doing after FE9!" type thing as I think about it more, which isn't totally relevant but it does give us more desired info on the continent.

Am I the only one who can't wait to see it? I can honestly see it being "so bad it's funny."

If it helps, the EU version ran a lot more smoothly and less crashes than the JP version.

Aside from his HUGE availability and his HUGE utility during most of that availability, right.

I never looked into FE5's plot too much; I know the basics, not the specifics. FE4's is definitely darkest. Although, I'd say the darkest part of FE9 is drugging the Laguz (a whole race of people, no less) and Ashnard's insanity.

Oh, lol I forgot Oscar only loses 2 move in Oliver's mansion, and I always have Geoffrey take the east in the swamp.

Mercenary/Ranger/Heroes/Vanguards. I like to think they're all in the same group.

Titania and Oscar are good, Kieran and Geoffrey are decent. Sigrun sucks, but Marcia, Elincia and Tanith are good... You're not bringing Pallies to Micaiah's route anyway unless you're mentally unstable.

Still unreliable. If you want to really challenge yourself, try going through the game without Haar, Sothe, or Nolan. Taking Jill away is relatively minor in comparison to taking the latter two away.

His avoid isn't that great. The thunder mages have maybe 50 or 55 hit on him, at least, last I recall. You recruit Jill to Ike's team? Why... the Dawn Brigade needs her. >_>

It helps her a lot... other characters being better at it is irrelevant etc but her speed is still quite a bit ahead even with heavier weapons. "She doesn't have to be" sounds like a huge copout for her lack of defense and evade. Cavaliers can die pretty easily, Knights might require two rounds. It's still better than all your other physical units and Rapier drains less AS than Armorslayer. Nope, you said "who was better at her job," which deals with offense. Level 20 in Hard Mode? Unless you give her a lot of specialized attention, it's hard to get. I barely got her to Level 20 when I played WITH specialized attention; seriously you gain like 15 EXP per kill in hard mode.The second 20 is tough to get without specialized attention because she's got all of... four chapters... Chapter 6 is where she's too busy healing (12 EXP per mend staff, which means it takes like 9 turns to get a level up). Chapter 12 has her too busy healing with a Physic or a Mend although she can fit an occasional attack... which I don't entirely doubt; only somewhat. Chapter 13 doesn't really let her attack so all she can do is Physic, Sleep, or Purge... I think I'm missing a DB chapter in there somewhere, but I don't think she has that much of a chance to get levels. Level 10 at best after all this, and I'm being pretty lenient; the kill EXP in FE10 isn't hot. Part IV, she'll be focused more on healing than attack. DEFINITELY... she's too frail. She can still probably fit an occasional (god damn how the fuck do you spell this word) but she'll be, once again, focused on healing or getting to Stefan's spot. Being lenient again, Level 15 after this chapter. So 15/15/1 makes sense by her promotion time. How fast does staff EXP grow iunno? Matrona is somewhat useless of a staff after you get fortifies or physics anyway, but it gives you a level up so... Micaiah has a hard time doing that after Part I, once again. Weakener at best, but other mages can one round (Callil) pretty easily because of their doubling capabilities.During Part I she's the only candidate. But they're not very high in number to begin with (cavalier classes at least), at least not until Chapter 10 or 6-2. 6-1 has a few here and there too. (7 has none, I'm sure 8 has one or two, 9 is a shitty chapter lol) Situational scenario. That doesn't apply to every single instance that ever happens in FE10 ever. Lute can dodge here and there, Ross can't until he promotes once and gets a few levels in that promotion. Ross' best weapons are in melee anyway, and a Hand Axe takes two off his AS (four before promotion) - which is already low to begin with. The Hatchet doesn't do much damage anyway, at least it starts to lag (it breaks eventually, despite 50 uses or so) so he pretty much relies on Iron Axes after his first promotion.Vanessa... is irrelevant now. Considering we agree she's better than Eirika. She performs on more or less the same level as her team until they all promote, which is at like Chapter 12 or 13. And once she promotes, she doesn't have a hard time catching up. On the enemy phase, Melee > Range considering how 70% of the enemies attack from melee on enemy phase anyway.Micaiah can one shot? Aside from Armors and Mounts, what the hell kind of parallel universe do you live in? And...? 1-2 levels is just an increase of Speed to 7. This isn't doubling, sir. Garcia has NO speed, lol. He can't double, which is a detriment to his entire offense. On top of that Garcia eats a lot more enemy attacks than Eirika does because of his lack of evade and Eirika's damage still tends to be even with his due to her ability to double. Clearly you don't know me

Chapter 1-2. Steel Sword weighs her down. Everyone else's offense isn't that much greater if it's greater at all unless your name is Seth, so the Steel Sword's boost in might is negligible. Her speed picks up later, and then she can afford heavier weapons. And Micaiah isn't?Cavaliers don't even show up for a while. When they show up Eirika's durability is decent enough to allow her to get out of the situation decent, and her supports are built up by this time as well. The rest of the knights are random enemies and bosses, which shouldn't be too hard for her. Being better at offense for 2/3 of the game > better better for 1/3 of the game. Eirika's offense is clearly superior.Tier list was arguing the overall quality, the original argument (from you) was that a million other people did better than Eirika in offense. God damn I'm too lazy to get the actual numbers. I see Micaiah's promotion being something like 15/15/1 while being lenient on the second 15. To get from a C to an SS in the span of five chapters requires heavy, heavy abuse and heavy, heavy use of Arms Scrolls. And a Fortify staff isn't already helping you because...? Yes, it would. Because her main use, as far as I'm aware, is using Thani to one shot enemy mounts and armors. Her damage with the Thani tome is probably a two round, even though she's restricted to the player phase for attacking anyway.Sacrifice? She heals 14 HP with it. On average she gets another HP point at Level... 4. So now she heals 15. The most she'll ever be healing is 21 with Sacrifice, and she's still dead in another hit if you go full way. And she's very close to death even if you go part of the way. If you decide to rule characters like Vanessa (heavily bow weak, heavily axe user weak and you'll be seeing axe users for a little while if my memory serves me correctly), Moulder, Ross, Natasha, and Lute then sure. Swords can't hit her fairly often, and they're not even doing that much damage despite the low/average defenses. Oh come on, she does have supports.No ranged option is only a minor strike against her overall. Micaiah has no real melee option unless she's up against an archer, because she gets raped at melee range. Same goes for Eirika? Eirika can probably do more on the enemy phase than Micaiah can, overall. And? She's still not doubling and Bows have just as much might as Swords. I'm pretty sure that Garcia, at best, has a negligible lead. Eirika ends up evading more (the chapter he arrives in is primarily dominated by Axe users) and hell, Garcia's 20% Speed means he can't reliably double as you go along. In select cases against armors, but not against common enemies. I dunno about you but in order to get Ross to Level 10 by Joshua's chapter I had to give him some pretty specialized attention. But she sucks against the Brigands. This doesn't matter anyway, since I clearly stated that Vanessa > Eirika afterwards.

I'm getting lazy, we're coming to somewhat of a consensus here (Ephraim/Eirika is not quite as good as Eirika/Eirika which is something we can all agree on) but I hardly see Eirika/Eirika as worse than Micaiah. Only proportionally worse at best, but if you can handle your own game, you're better than someone who has a hard time handling her own game even if proportions are different between the two; something I adhere to. Also, to be somewhat on topic: did anyone see any point in Part II? Notably plot wise. I'd be happy to hear any reasons why... Something tells me that there would still be Crimean involvement in the war even without Part II happening because they were treading on Crimean borders in that battle, but is it just to see the state of Crimea or what? Because plot-wise, Part II is really close to Part IV as least favorite. Only countering Micaiah/Eirika relevant points now. Including comparisons and such... so the entire Pent thing I no longer care about because I can't get that point across (the main point was "why is Micaiah in the backlines? Maybe it's because she's FRAIL not entirely because she's a mage that can attack from a distance.") It never happens. Give me an instance it will aside from giving Eirika a Steel Sword at the very beginning (where she has a Rapier anyway). 22 x2 is still a lot of damage early on, subject to increase. So she can handle the axe users fine. Franz and Gilliam can take care of the Lancers while Franz helps out with the Axe users. And...? The Boss still gets killed pretty easily by Eirika. With Seth you'd have to waste uses of a Silver Lance + about a level up's worth of EXP that can EASILY go to Eirika. I guess you're missing the point where I'm comparing Eirika's job, offense, to everyone else who has a job in offense (ie, everyone in the entire game at some point or another) in just the role of an offensive unit. I'm not comparing quality (Moulder wins here) as a whole, I'm comparing quality of offense. Where Moulder loses. She's not doing decent damage to white dragons at all. Matrona implies you managed to get her to SS in staves by then.There's an Ashera Staff in this game? She doesn't "shine" in the toughest parts of the game. I prefer to use her when she's really low maintenance in the latter parts of the game as opposed to really high maintenance in the earlier parts of the game. Can't say the same about Eirika can you, where she's consistently a low maintenance character. ... uh...The only reason she has for seeing enemy phase action is if you put her in a pile of mages or if you screw up in defending her. Neimi's range capabilities are not "decent," she doesn't do that much damage and doesn't double for like five levels.Garcia can't double. Eirika can, and they end up doing more or less the same damage as a result. Ross isn't doubling either, and his ranged capabilities aren't completely reliable due to accuracy. He's also getting doubled by certain enemies, while I'm at it. Vanessa's performance in Chapter 2 sucks, that's what I was getting at. From there on, after a slight bit of help, Vanessa is indeed > Eirika. Especially with an Anima support triangle.

I don't think he even gets EXP to be translated into BEXP in the first place.

No, Pent is the one mage that everyone needs to be like. But they can't. They won't always suck, but it says a lot about what a Mage can't do if Pent can do it. So? You get a lot of Gold in FE8 that it doesn't even matter. There's no ranks so sell away! The heavier weapons also lower her evade negligibly because her speed is damn high anyway. She does, actually. about 22 attack x2 at base level is pretty good. I haven't played FE8 for a while but I swear to God this isn't right. He's also the best candidate to kill every enemy there. But you're not going to do that, are you? Outperforming in offense. Ephraim route Eirika is still doing better than Neimi because Eirika's offense still leads and she's still doing better. Except I'm not judging the entire character, I'm judging one aspect of their character. You're missing the point. And she's still not going to be one rounding the dragons.(I'm judging on Normal mode then jacking them proportional to the 2/3 of HM I've played, since I'm too lazy to finish too). So can Mist. Sacrifice fails. Sothe support is okay.Part IV being where things get easy doesn't excuse anything. If she's not helping the team much, she's not helping the team much; no excuses. Eirika's not as good as one thirds of the game. And you've yet to fully refute this.She's just as useful when it counts. She's frail as all fuck in Part I (which is still harder than Part III) and can't heal. And has a weak offense because it's player phase only. At the beginning you just have... Seth and Franz. And Vanessa, who has WTD for a while anyway. Eirika's pretty much with the pack as you start out, and her only real lagging time is before chapter 16 - don't forget, she has a ton of good supports to make use of as well. Cross game tier list isn't relevant. Relative position in the tier list is. being bottom of high in your game. > Being bottom or middle of mid in your game I'd rather not. If anyone else wants to jump in feel free, because the open field is where the real debating occurs.

Eirika's not in Tellius either.It means more to what she can't do, and shows how frail she really is - reduced to the level of an archer because she has poor defense. One more hit and she's dead~ Swords are a lot cheaper than Light magic. In both games.Eirika can afford to use a better sword to help one round because her speed is just that damn secure. Micaiah won't be one rounding no matter what weapon you give her because of her lack of speed. Eirika has bonus damage too. Rapier, anyone? I always thought Chapter one had both. Chapter two has a load more axe users, I know for a fact.Seth is technically better than every single person against every single enemy in the early game so I don't see why that matters. No, you said "who was better than her at her job," her job being offense. Before promotion lasts 14 chapters out of 21. After promotion lasts 16 chapters out of 21. So that's two chapters where Neimi has a noticeable lead, 5 where it's trivial if it even were to exist. In your untrue circumstance, being better for 2/3 of the game > being better for 1/3, and Eirika's apart of the former. I'm pretty sure if you look back, you see that the point primarily dealt with offense. And who's doing Eirika's job as an offensive character better than she is. Natasha and Moulder have no real offense until the last thirds of the game and Colm's offense is pretty bad. You've yet to play hard mode. When I recall playing the red dragons had like 45% hit on her on easy mode, which is subject to increase even more especially considering Micaiah is probably like at a low level, due to many premature promotions and still not being at that high a level. How can you expect her to get SS in Light magic? Then there's Ashera that she'll have a hard time doing damage against. Offensively speaking, she does a relatively poor job in Part IV. Offensively speaking, she's doing alright in Part I only due to the fact that she has Thani and high magic. Offensively speaking, she's not doing much worse than Part I, if at all; I'd put it below Part I because enemies are a lot stronger. Mist can take care of that job with better movement to boot. How easy they are is irrelevant, how well they're doing in both is more relevant. Micaiah isn't doing that much damage and is still healing (oh come on, you're shitting on what you're trying to defend) but Eirika's starting to do more damage and is mounted... and has access to many a silver sword by this point. Micaiah's the detriment shortly into Part I. Eirika's fine in all her chapters. Both are forced, and Eirika's pretty good for a forced Lord. No.. Micaiah's pretty bad. Eirika's either in the bottom or the middle of high tier in her game.I've only said enough when one of us is proven wrong. I know and believe that - in both relative and overall terms - Eirika > Micaiah. Therefore, Micaiah exists mainly to make Part I hell. I can't think of a more out of fit Lord for this game than her.

The point flew over your head.You're saying that Micaiah should be on the backlines because of her 1-2 range right, being able to use the 2? I'm saying that Pent can take both the front and the back, because of his making full use of the 1-2 range. Because he's not frail. The only reason you restrict a mage to the back is because they're frail, which is a point against them for many reasons: no counter attack, and general frailty. No, it's not. Have you seen her HP stat? At best it's good for abuse because of Sacrifice -> Laura using a Staff so they both get EXP, but it's not even worth mentioning considering how Vulneraries do a better job. Worse than average. She can't counter attack properly or double. Eirika can do both. Laura's not even reaching promotion unless you go completely out of your way. Against axe users? She's probably the best candidate for the second boss too with that Rapier. Colm's thief utility is only a utility step, the main point was that people did Eirika's job better. Eirika does her job - of being an offensive person - worse than 1/3 of the game whereas Micaiah does her offensive job worse than 1/3 of the game. The comparison was initially due to offense, and I believe should stay that way. For the 13 or 14 chapters before that? Eirika wins. Eirika > Neimi because even if Neimi has one more weapon type available, Eirika can use stronger swords and win in offense that way. And her evade gets consistent enough that any weighing down won't affect her - Neimi has to sword to that spot with Iron or Steel Swords, I forget which. Offensively, yes. That was the original point I tried to argue, and I'm sticking by it. I don't think anybody's using Rexaura at all, and I don't think she'll be having much use of it anyway. I'd rather she not do mediocre (especially in relative terms) damage to the dragons and just sit back and heal; she's risking getting killed that way too. (15 uses is NOT cool).Micaiah's "hitting heavily" against armors and mounts with Thani at best. Everything else takes about a quarter damage to a thirds of their damage from her by part IV. Healing not being needed as often later equates to her use dropping substantially. You still have room to kill a lot in the later parts and Eirika does a pretty decent job at it. Being useful in some way, shape or form in all chapters > Being a forced detriment to your team in all chapters available. She's a helper against select enemies in Part I due to one shotting armors and such, and in part III because of healing but not much much.

And now I'm using Pent to compare to Micaiah to prove a point. See how that works? Problem: Micaiah doesn't heal in Part I.Another problem? Their offenses really blow (in Micaiah's case, it goes from somewhat decent in Part I [only due to Thani's one-shots] to mediocre). If Laura even gets an offense. Frailest but second quickest. To Seth, of all people. Thief utility is not Eirika's job. He's not apart of the comparison if you're strictly comparing the offense of both of them.Neimi can't attack at melee range until promotion, Eirika can. Neimi's not bad and all but... only one potential attack per turn is really not as good as Eirika's especially because Eirika probably doubles more and does more damage as a result. The rest of your post seems like a cop out anyway. Right I miscounted.If you discount the ones I already discounted/refuted you probably do still get something close to 13/33. I was pretty iffy on Gerik and at first iffy on Artur - I'd class them as about a half each, but I don't feel like it. Since I wasn't thinking straight and was talking strictly offense, I'm taking another two off so it's 11/33. Moulder and Natasha are healers for at least two thirds of the game. She's needed for her healing utility in three or four chapters (give me a sec to think, how many dawn chapters are there in Part III?), and in Part IV not necessary and in endgame, not wholly necessary either. They're a large three chapters but... that's her standout moment as a healer. And just a healer, not an offensive unit.

You've splattered the point of a Micaiah vs Eirika debate here as well. They're two completely different characters in completely different games too. If the job is getting killed easily, sure. Full support is the only pro in this statement. Her chapters being the tougher one really doesn't help her cause one bit, especially since she's a very frail mage with low AS. Early on Eirika is surviving plenty fine, then. When her supports and speed build up, it's cool.Colm's offense is terrible. Even worse than Eirika's supposedly is. Tana's not as good as Eirika for about a quarter of the game. You know, the quarter where you have the two of them at the same time and have to help build up Tana. Cormag is on the same boat as Tana, only with less evade and more defense. Artur and Gerik were people I forgot, though I was on the edge with Gerik. Garcia has poor AS; Ross, while not too hard to baby, is still annoying to baby and his offense is decent. He's really not much better than Eirika by any means, especially because he's pretty much promoting at the fog of war chapter (I forget the number). Eirika sustains a solid level lead for quite a bit. Even if most of that's right, you're talking about a thirds of the chars here. I'm sure a lot more than a thirds of the chars in FE10 are better than Micaiah.

Do you even know what the point of that was? To compare. It makes it easier for me to say what I wish to say.Let me start my argument over, since it's definitely easier for getting my point across... it just feels repetitive going against another post of yours which is why I copped out... but screw my earlier statement, here goes something. Why would you have Micaiah in the backlines? Partly because of the extra 2 range, the other part is because she's frail as hell. However, Pent can easily hold his own, and he is a mage with 1-2 range as well. Micaiah is good even though she can only afford to attack from the backlines until the end of Part I (after which, only like three chapters become relevant anyway - they get progressively easier too) which is also only because she's frail? Eirika is good because she can afford frontlines (not backlines because then she can't attack!) and can dish out a counter attack against what she already weakens. That covers both offense and defense, let's not forget that Eirika's either there for 3/4 or 100% of the entire game and thus has a chance to support with good characters in the game which boosts her usefulness... Basically, enemies can gang up on one and they'll be alright, whereas enemies can gang up on another and... she'll get raped really badly. You can't possibly say that Eirika's worse than Micaiah even on a relative level. Hell, I was too hellbent on disproving that... I forgot to even ask you this! Who is outclassing Eirika exactly? I can think of Joshua, Seth, Franz, Ephraim, Tethys, Natasha, Moulder, Vanessa, Lute, Kyle, Forde, and who else? How good each is for their own pile is irrelevant to how good each is overall, which is what should be measured. I myself would rather look at the scratched diamond than the golden crap; I'd rather overlook the crap as a whole and just stare at the scratched diamond.

To be fair, some of them did have cool names... Not like there's much personality in this game anyway.

Oh, I have been proven wrong. Is it even possible to make only four people kill in this game, though? Or you can get a lot of people to kill and get all of them killed right...? In which case, you don't have to be insane. Just trying to prove a point, lol.

I felt Pent was relevant because he was a magic user who could take the frontlines. You don't restrict someone with 1-2 range because they can't take the frontlines, you do it because they're too handicapped to do so which Pent really isn't. After all, it can take both direct and indirect counters while dishing out indirect damage (the former being useful, the latter being used most often). Which is irrelevant because the scratched jewel is still good.

You get a Heron on your top five by basically getting 0 kills with everyone else, or just getting kills with five people and getting them to get into a lot of battles. I don't think anyone here is insane, no.