Vykan12

I'll go either way (no pun intended), though if you want Elincia, that's fine with me.

A somewhat funny debate on lamefaqs Also, no one ever carried out that Elincia vs Tibarn debate.

I don't think the 4-3 purge bishop is really a bad thing for Leanne. She's helping other units reach that enemy sooner, and thus the 4-3 bishop is being a nuisance to other units (not just Leanne) for fewer turns. So I see it as working in Leanne's favor in some regards. Also, I didn't think of this before but Leanne comes for free in all of her chapters except for 4-E, so everything she's doing isn't even at the expense of a unit slot. Again, if Haar gets the speedwing in 2-3, he can double just fine in part 3, and his flying generally has him accessing enemies much sooner than Ike is (3-4 and 3-7 come to mind). So, if Haar is 2 rounding enemies before Ike can even attack them, Haar is invariably doing better. True I suppose. Also a valid point. This shouldn’t be credited towards Ike since you benefit from it whether he’s used or not. It’s like giving credit to Caneighis for getting you the Urvan, even though you don’t need to use him in any single chapter to make use of Urvan anyway. No, not really. Haar has quite a deal more strength than Ike due to being promoted. Ike with the ragnell at max strength has 45 Mt whereas Haar has 44 Mt at --/20/4 with a hand axe. So, Haar’s still wins raw damage output if he’s using a short axe, a tomahawk or any 1 ranged axe. And just for kicks, Ike gets the ragnell at the bridge, a chapter practically designed to make fliers shine. No, Haar quarrels over the urvan, a forged silver axe, a brave axe or a brave lance. Also, Ike wouldn’t mind using Urvan for the +4 damage, +8 when besides Nasir. Indeed. Plot related stuff is kinda irrelevant, otherwise Ike would be auto-top for being able to seize/arrive as a necessary function to advancing in the game.

Certainly, although I think him getting the 2-3 speedwing is very likely, so by promotion he already has 26 spd, which combined with nullify (only people weak to bows really want this), makes him capable of soloing pretty much all of part 3. At the cost of 2 resources (though even just the speedwing would suffice), he's easily the best unit in part 3 thanks to being able to ORKO just about anything with a hand axe compounded with his amazing durability and movement capability. Because of being able to bless the brave axe, he only really dwindles in the very last chapter, which is maybe 5-8% of his total use. That being said, I agree with Mekkah, I could potentially see him < Leanne.

Anyway, I'd give the victory to Red Fox. Hero basically tried to make some disgustingly exaggerated arguments about Gatrie failing because of his poor mobility, and some of his other points such as Gatrie's doubling issues were similarly blown out of proportion. As for his Aran defence, he brought up some pretty weak points involving resolve and probably could've introduced some more numbers to give his argument some more substance. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh. As for Red Fox, she made far fewer blunders and gave more solid support to her arguments. For instance, her point that Gatrie would make better use of an avo support than Aran would was a good defence against that whole Aran/Nolan support hype and she set him straight on a lot of part 1 misconceptions he had, such as the laguz alliance only being good in 1-7. Sorry if that's a bit of a half ***ed critique, but it's 4 AM and I read this whole debate in on shot, so my judgment's probably a little out of whack.

Here’s my tl;dr opinion. I’ll give a brief summary of what I thought in the next post. Hero’s stuff Even if his bases are balanced, his growths are far from it. 50% hp, 75% str, 10% mag, 75% skl, 35% spd, 35% luck, 70% def, 25% res. It’s pretty clear that Aran will have amazing physical defence at max potential but will have utterly fail speed, avoid and resistance, so he deviates quite a lot from the definition of balanced. Although that is ascertainably true, you have to compare Aran to your other frontliners to fully prove your point (saying Eddie fails alone doesn’t cut it). And he can only be your third best tank in 1-3 because of Sothe. This is nothing special since Meg fails and you can deploy about 80% of your units at this point. Again, stat comparisons would help here. For one, Volug beats Aran in durability quite easily just looking at his huge hp and avo lead, and also leads defence for quite a while without ever losing that by a significant margin. You also didn’t make mention of more temporary competition like Nailah and the laguz alliance. No it’s not. Rolf has 19, Soren has18, Mist has 15 and Rhys has 14. Also, Oscar and Titania only have a 1 spd advantage over him and you made no mention of Gatrie’s 60% spd growth. Red Fox did counter this suitably, though, so kudos for her. Why? There’s many more ways to work around offensive flaws than any other. Killer/brave/other special weapons, stat boosters, skills (mainly adept) and most importantly, a master crown are all possibilities to help him. And at --/16/1, he has 25 speed, enough to double most part 3 enemies. There’s 2 problems with this statement. First, swordsmasters in early part 3 have 23-24 spd, so Gatrie is rather easily *not* getting doubled, especially after a few levels, and even supposing they do, you’ve presented no proof he’ll take any significant damage. Again, Fox addressed this. On to your chapter by chapter analysis, you didn’t consider at all the fact that you can ferry Gatrie to have him keep up. First, you’re giving Aran 13 levels in 7 chapters, or an average of 1.85 levels per chapter, which is ridiculous considering how bad his offence is for most of part 1 along with the fact that we’re talking about HM and the DB have below average exp gains in their chapters relative to others. Also, you’ve provided insufficient reasoning as to why Aran is supporting Nolan. I’d go along something like earth x thunder giving 30 avo and 2 def makes for a nice durability bonus and it’s one of Nolan’s quickest supports. Once again, Fox gave a good rebbutal to this point. You haven’t looked at Gatrie’s bases recently then. He only needs to reach --/16 to cap str, spd and def, his 3 most important stats. That’s 6 levels he needs to finish his statistical growth in second tier. So even if he may not be reaching as many enemies as, say, Titania, he’s not suffering much because of it. This doesn’t say anything relevant about how Aran is performing against those laguz. “tanking with Nolan and Tauroneo” isn’t an argument. Gatrie a liability? He has 44 hp, 24 def and 11 res at base level, along with high growths in all 3 of those stats, in addition to a 150% avoid growth. Gatrie being a liability is an oxymoron. You gave Gatrie 4 levels to Aran’s 26? Are you out of your mind? Gatrie only has 1 less move than Aran and has a much better joining situation than him, along with slightly better availability. Seriously, I’m almost willing to proclaim Red Fox the winner based on the epic failure of this point. Ike’s route is the hardest one due to the enemies having elevated stats and coming in greater numbers, so Gatrie doing his best here is actually a point in his favor compared to Aran. Also, bad mobility in a chapter like 4-4 isn’t the end of the world since some units get a movement penalty or can’t climb a ledge, and you can encounter quite a lot of enemy reinforcements without having to move very much. This point has no basis… if the competition consists of “who’s getting which SS weapon”, then Gatrie has the same competition as Aran due to specializing in lances. Also, Gatrie has access to 2 other weapon types, so he can opt to use a blessed brave weapon or something, meaning he has a lot more flexibility in weapon choice, and thus less competition to worry about. Bull****. There’s no reason they don’t “shine” in 1-7, 1-8 and 1-E more or less equally. Fox covered this. Not if you refrain them sufficiently. Most of the weapons mentioned are buyable and Geoffrey can solo 3-9 with a brave lance, so I don’t see where you’re going with that. Gatrie’s job isn’t to defend his comrades (that’s a collective job of your frontliners assuming you even use squishy units), it’s to help complete a map efficiently, which usually involves killing enemies quickly, helping out his support partner, etc. You wanted to give Aran paragon in part 1 AND resolve in part 3? Massive limited resource dependence ftl. Wtf? He could kill every enemy in the map by having Micaiah attack then have him finish, or just 2 round the enemies. Guard sucks. Red Fox’s stuff That’s irrelevant, if Aran has better durability relative to his teammates, it doesn’t matter how poor his durability is relative to the enemy. If everyone is 1HKOed and Aran is 2HKOed, then he’s top tier in terms of durability despite being a huge liability. Hero did challenge you on this point, in any case. Good thing forged weapons are rather inexpensive, and with Aran’s non-doubling, will last him a very long time. Hero brought that up, fortunately. Again, irrelevant for reasons already explained. Gatrie could be 100HKOed, but if everyone else on his team is getting 150HKOed, then Gatrie’s the least durable unit on the team. You’re slightly incorrect here. Gatrie’s spd cap is 31 while Aran’s is 33, and spd is the most important stat in just about any FE game, so Gatrie having better caps is arguable. Though, Aran reaching max spd is a different story entirely and I don’t see it happening on HM since there’s not quite enough BEXP floating around as there is on NM to permit the kind of abuse he needs to improve his paltry spd. Because of ½ chapters where both have crap move? Remember that Sigrun is forced, Tanith’s probably in play and most of your fliers/laguz are probably taking this route, so they can easily be ferried into combat. Wut? Haar can take the south route better if the bolting dude is bothering him, and is the only person who can really reach any enemies in the southeast corner of the map, at least the non-wyverns in any case. And that bolting guy isn’t really that deadly considering his accuracy, how Haar is probably not at risk of dying if he gets hit by it AND a few other enemies, and that he can take nullify or something since no one else is using it in any meaningful way (yet). You don’t have to assume it is, though the BEXP gained is pitiful, so I can see where Hero is coming from in saying it’s better to just kill them. Say what? There’s nothing stating that BEXP is distributed communistically between you units. If you require more than the average unit, then it’s a negative based on excessive resource consumption, and vice versa, simple as that. That’s not the only way to properly use BEXP (eg/ BEXPing a laguz or a fail unit to 99 and having them level up from the first kill in the upcoming chapter) but wtv. You’re assuming Aran even gets targeted for elsleep, and restore staves say hi.

Your units start spread out, and the only enemies you have to chase after are the ones to the east. Sothe can actually reach the boss on turn 2 if given celerity and is shoved by Muarim and Vika, so reaching all the enemies really isn’t an issue. I’m not saying she doesn’t, though a transformed Muarim has absolutely no trouble killing things. Volug will admittedly have spd issues, though. This is pretty much cancelled out by support benefits (thunder x thunder = 3 def and 15 avo) while others more than overcome this (earth x earth, for instance). You can ferry him with Volug or Muarim, and Rafiel vigoring helps too. That depends on who you use. Though, even a wimpy character can take on some of the reinforcements by attacking from atop a ledge. Their durability is fine in this level. All that means is he loses player phases popping grass while still wtfraping anything at 1 range on enemy phase. The hawks are statistically superior to everyone you named. Some of those people are arguably better thanks to being statistically close but obviously having 1-2 range and constant player phase, and that’s about it. Anyway, just think of it this way. Nailah is marginally better than the hawks in her chapters (9 total, less if you weigh 4-E as <5 chapters) while the hawks have 3 more chapters than Nailah. I don’t like introducing arbitrary numbers into this but supposing Nailah = 90 and Janaff = 80, then (90-80)9 = 90 point advantage that Nailah has, whereas Janaff gets 240 for his extra chapters, edging Nailah out by 150 points. Of course, one could argue until the end of time what the gap between their performance really is, and how valuable extra availability is when you’re an above average unit, so this essentially comes down to a judgment call. 150 attacks is 75 kills from 3-7 to endgame, or an average of 10.7 attacks per chapter. Considering how good they are, how quickly they reach enemies and the fact that part 3-4 maps have like 50+ enemies, I don’t think that’s unreasonable. As for Nailah, in my experience laguz royals gain exp half as fast as normal laguz (think it has to do with formshift) and laguz CEXP gain on HM is crap enough as it is, so I doubt she’ll gain more than a level. Though, it won’t really change much in the comparison since her growths are pretty awful (60% hp, 30% str, 15% mag, 20% skl, 20% spd, 45% lck, 30% def, 30% res). Yeah, he’s not nearly as good as he should be in part 1, but he’s very, very useful beyond that. 4-1 is a FOW map so he might only be used on the first turn and then savior’ed, but he gives the necessary push to get your units out there and attack the main body of enemies. And this map is really annoying for prolonging your turn count because of reinforcements showing up where you can’t even see them, so finishing the map before such things happen is imperative. Rafiel makes the biggest contribution to this just from his first vigor, and he can be used more if you have any idea about enemy placement or use torches. In 4-4 he’s once again best used on turn 1 then ferried up to Oliver’s part of the map, where he’s a major help in getting to dispose of all the stationary enemies in that northwest part of the map, and if all your units are too far from the reinforcements, he helps them get there much sooner and hopefully end the map before the reinforcement numbers start to get ridiculous. And in 4-E, he is better than Reyson in low turn count runs, and without a doubt your best unit. I believe he said that the gap between Mia and Zihark should be less, unless I’m mistaken. That could mean Zihark down more than Mia up. That depends on playstyle, really. The more you aim for efficiency, the more enemy phase matters since you can only kill as many enemies as you have units on player phase (discounting heron contributions) whereas there’s no limit to kills on enemy phase.

Well pretty much all of high tier needs some re-arranging. I won’t oppose Zihark and Sothe’s position as Reikken has done that already, but I really cannot see how Shinon is > Titania, or even in high tier for that matter. Titania may lose to Shinon in terms of player phase offence because Shinon can actually double, but she still wins offence overall due to mobility giving her easier access to enemies and being able to have an enemy phase that doesn’t consist of crossbow phail. Plus, at lv --/16, she promotes rather quickly, which gets her enough spd to double part 3 generics, and with her superior strength, she wins offence easily for the rest of part 3. Shinon only starts winning again when the double bow shows up, but that’s only 4-E, which is reasonably short (most agree it has the weight of 2-3 chapters instead of 5). Leanne and Rafiel are both underrated on the list. I brought up most of what makes FE10 herons win in my Reyson vs Haar debate, and Rafiel and Leanne are basically Reyson with less move, durability and availability, so they shouldn’t be too far separated from him. In particular, I can’t see any of the herons losing to any royals. Mia is also quite overrated on the list. Currently she’s above Gatrie, someone with much better durability than her. Offence is arguable, but I believe smash has brought up numbers on gfaqs showing that Mia does about as much damage, if not less, than some other GMs do in one hit, and she doesn’t ORKO either way. I can only see her that high by overhyping her adept potential, and there’s so many other people who can make good use of it (Ike/Shinon/Ranulf/hawks/anyone who can double), so I don’t see Mia’s strong use of it as being a major selling point. Well I can’t see anyone being between the hawks because they are so close on just about everything. Even if Janaff leads on damage output, Ulki can gain another point of att from supports (eg/ he supports Mordy), he can get +4 str from an energy drop (since stat boosters are best used on laguz for double stat gain), adept/tear is win and so is the crossbow -> wrath/resolve type options. Each option individually might not seem likely, but the chance of Ulki getting just one of these things is pretty high, so Ulki can easily surpass Janaff’s base might of 40 and do just as well as him vs generals, which are a single enemy type in any case. Then Ulki wins durability, but I made a post on gfaqs as to why Janaff never has to worry about durability himself (2 in fact, this is the first one) And no, Ulki's avoid is not overkill unless you're giving him an earth support or something. Even then, when you have a weakness to bows, there's no such thing as too much avoid. Uh, yes it is. I took some of Int’s HM data from 3-8 Warriors average 39 attack and 118 hit there. Janaff’s avo at base level is 113. If Janaff is getting 4HKOed at 0.55% true hit, how can Ulki’s avo NOT be overkill here? Meanwhile, Janaff does 46 damage to warriors while Ulki does 38. Janaff kills the enemy cleanly while Ulki’s short by 4 damage. What seems more significant here? It doesn’t end there. Halbs average around 130 hit. Zomg fail at Janaff getting 7HKOed at 6% real. As for offense, Janaff does 38 damage, which is actually short of a one round, which means Janaff will get the 38 hp halbs while Ulki’s well into 3HKO range. Okie, let’s take someone a little more accurate. A swordmaster with a steel sword has 146 hit, so my poor, frail Janaff is facing 22 real. Oh, but wait, their attacks practically tink off of Janaff, doing a hilarious 3 damage to his 57 hp. Wtffail at being 20HKOed with a 1/5 chance of getting hit. Well how bout them dang archers? Ok, they admittedly 3HKO Tibarn’s eyes, but it’s at only 20 true hit. OMghorrible for Janaff to face a 0.8% chance of dying in 3 hits to his class weakness, especially when he’s constantly facing 3 consecutive archers. Oh yeah, offense. The archer dude has 40 hp, Janaff does 42 damage, Ulki does 38. I think you get the picture by now. Really, the only case where Janaff is at ANY risk of dying throughout a chapter is crossbow enemies. Okay, the lone 3-8 crossbow d00d has 158 hit, so Janaff is admittedly facing a 41% chance of dying against these buggers while Ulki’s is only 14%, but like I said, these enemies are rare, nullify exists, and most importantly, Janaff’s offensive lead vs everything is the bigger win IMO. I dunno if they should go above Nailah or not, though I think you’re overrating Nailah a little. She’s indeed win in 1-8 and 1-E, but those chapters can be beaten more easily/efficiently without using Nailah than part 3 chapters can without the hawks since you have the BK/laguz alliance/Rafiel/Volug/Zihark/Sothe/etc powering your offence already whereas the GMs aren’t quite as broken. As for 4-E, Nailah’s only real advantage over the hawks is not needing a laguz gem, and those aren’t even heavily competed for in the first place due to the existence of 3 of them, the fact that laguz stones/grass still suffices for other laguz such as dragons, etc. Oh, and there’s no point in selling the gems since you have a metric ton of money in the 4-E base, especially if you do intelligent things like selling the balbeirth and rexthunder, assuming you’re not using any mage characters. Anyway, onto stats: Janaff lv 32 (A Ulki, SS strike): 59 hp, 55 Mt, 40 skl, 36 spd, 32 luck, 29 def, 19 res, 127 avo Nailah lv 33 (SS strike): 66 hp, 54 Mt, 46 skill, 38 spd, 35 luck, 32 def, 26 res, 126 avo I know I didn’t give Nailah a support, but you can see that Nailah isn’t really doing that much better than Janaff. The only thing she’s demonstrably better at is mastery activation (46% savage > 36% tear). G2g to class, I’ll finish this up later.

Even supposing they are better than the last 2 picks on the GM’s line-up, they are hurting the DB’s efficiency by a far greater magnitude through their departure. I suppose it could be argued that the 3-13 turn count wouldn’t change (aside from pursuing Ike, but that’s unlikely), but having them leave makes it more difficult to complete that chapter in a safe manner, thus them leaving causes strategic inflexibility that didn’t otherwise exist, hence a negative. As for 3-12, the enemies aren’t quite as lolworthy as you claim, particularly the promoted generals. With only Volug, who has no laguz stones, Nolan and Tauronoeo, who needs at least 4 more speed to double generics, as the people powering your offence, you’re definitely losing turns with the absence of Jill/Z. Are you out of your mind? Jill lv 20/9 (A Zihark, steel poleax): 33 hp, 34 Mt, 19 skl, 24 spd, 22 luck, 22 def, 13 res, 135 hit, 115 avo Ulki lv 28 (A Strike): 59 hp, 36 Mt, 34 skl, 36 spd, 25 luck, 22 def, 20 res, 198 hit, 132 avo Ulki completely destroys Jill statistically at the generous level you gave her, and he’s only at base level and unsupported. Actually 24 AS is pretty borderline. Most of the enemies in 3-7 have 20 AS, some of the warriors even have 21 AS, so Jill can’t double them. And the enemies in 3-7 are actually below average compared to most other part 3 enemies. Understatement considering it’s 26 hp and 17 avo we’re talking about. Agreed. Actually it’s tied. What’s your point? Ulki isn’t 1HKOed by crossbows, in fact getting him hit by crossbows is probably ideal for his offence since nothing else has any chance of hitting him, meaning he can make incredible use of wrath. Plus, he can probably heal with an herb or perhaps even a vulnerary and stay within wrath range, while not risking dying if somehow an enemy manages to hit him despite having like 10 display on him. Really, the odds of Ulki getting hit by a crossbow (they have ~30-40 display) compounded by a generic enemy hitting him all on the same turn is virtually nonexistent. Plus, it’s a situation easily worked around because of how few crossbow users there are per level, as well as the existence of nullify. Jill, on the other hand, has to fear about twice as many thunder mages as Ulki does crossbows, and risks a much higher hit rate against the average enemy, plus gets hit pretty hard by other mage types as well. So, she’s easily less durable than him. I’d contend that’s not true, since Ulki not only gains a fast +2 atk from a Janaff support (and +3 def and res, and +8 avo, but that's besides the point) but also strike levels rather quickly. Since 3-7 has a pre-set turn limit and you won’t even reach half the enemies in time, Janaff and Ulki are free to go attack whatever the please off in the distance, which alone already gets their strike level to 33-50% of the way towards S. It certainly helps that they double everything and have high mobility, so I could see them hitting SS as early as mid-part 4, at which point they have >50 Mt, which is comparable to a 20/7 Ike with the Ragnell. Also, you didn’t make any mention of adept (they have the best activation rate on the team of any unit in part 3) or tear (gained with 1-2 levels of BEXP, depending on the hawk), which put together, gives them an >80% chance of killing an enemy at neutral biorhythm. All that >>> Jill, and I lol’ed at the idea of Ulki being upper mid (I think Paperblade said that somewhere).

So, 3 posts each, does that mean it's judging time nao?

3-5 is not a small map by any means, though I don’t feel like counting out the dimensions of the level to prove my point. I guess you meant it’s small to play defensively since then you’re just limiting yourself to within the confines of the castle, but I think it’s just as likely you’d go at the enemies aggressively, especially if, say, you want Lombroso’s energy drop or want to end the map quickly. Enemies are coming from every side of the map except the North, so Reyson’s undoubtedly helping someone, if not numerous people, to get enemy phase exposure. 3-6 is a Dawn Brigade map so I’ll assume you meant 3-7. Believe it or not, plenty of people can get fairly far in various ways, though mainly by having your 3 fliers do lots of ferrying. It’s really only Oscar, Titania and maybe Gatrie + Brom who can’t do much of anything here, but even staying on the northeast island, they can take care of reinforcement wyverns. So, pretty much everyone’s getting some action, and Reyson’s doing what he does best. Indeed, this means that aside from non-heron laguz, Reyson has the best move on the team, so keeping up isn’t a concern for him, which bodes well for vigor strategies. Going around the trees, so to speak, isn’t a concern since the distance to reaching the northeast enemies is the same regardless. The only advantage raw flying gives is going south to north across the trees, but most of the enemies aren’t situated in the middle of the map, so it’s more of a defensive maneuver than anything. K. Then again, you have Elincia, Tibarn and possibly pplz like Jill and Tanith who are doing fine. Also, I don’t think beast laguz suffer movement penalty in 4-2 grass patches, and Ranulf is forced. And Reyson helps Haar reach enemies sooner. Really, the better your combat units are, the better Reyson is looking because he’s feeding off the performance of the people he’s helping to re-move. Yeah sure, he has ways to work around bad criticals or damaging mage hits, but a good chunk of your GM frontliners don’t really ever have this concern. Ike has nice def, a +5 def bonus from Ragnell and wtfavoid from supports, Oscar also has amazing avoid and later sol, Gatrie is like impossible to kill without a hammer and even someone slightly more mediocre pplz like Brom or Mordecai don’t really have these concerns. He doesn’t even need to. Look at where dancers like Lara, Ninian/Nils, FE9 Reyson and Tethys are ranked in their respective games, and they cannot remotely compare to Reyson’s abilitites. He could, but that involves taking savior from other people, which is okay in itself I guess but compounds with him taking BEXP and possibly a speedwing, none of which Reyson asks for. The only thing he ever has to compete for are laguz stones whereas Haar has to compete for means of exp gain, stat boosters, special weapons, healing services, etc etc. Also, Reyson can save you from situations where you’d need savior. Generally you rescue someone who is in danger of dying but if you can just vigor them, that unit can retreat, or take a concoction, or perhaps you vigor Mist and have her use a physic heal. If Reyson is 2-3 times better than the average unit, he might only be, say, 1.2 times better than Haar, but the assertion still remains that he’s better. People in the GMs who can’t take counters? You’re kidding, right? Durable people in the GMs Ike Titania (particularly after supports and when in third tier) Oscar (again, after supports, which are lightning quick in this game) Shinon (43 hp, 20 def and 78 avo on a sniper is hilarious win) Gatrie Haar Brom Mordecai Kyza (55 hp and 20 def isn’t half bad) Ranulf Janaff Ulki Whoever’s left has more questionable durability, but people like Kieran or Lethe certainly don’t have the fail durability of a unit like Fiona. Part 4 is a little more hilarious because of all the royals you get, particularly in 4-E when you can have them all together, plus deploying your 10 best units will likely all be very durable units. Ok fine, you got me. There’s not much Elincia can do about the bottom having 2 archers and a crossbow unit, at least within the first 4-5 turns, so point taken. What makes you say that? Warriors only average say, 10 less hit than most other units, and there’s no weapon triangle on hard mode. You’re also underestimating Elincia’s avoid, though I’m too lazy to bring up the numbers at this point. That hammer guy is pretty far away, so even if it take Calill 3 turns to kill the hammer dood, who cares? She’s not exactly going to be frontlining or healing, so she has nothing better to do than to fit in some safe attacks that help your units survive. 23 base actually, and he only averages 26 speed at 20/20, which is pretty mediocre. You need at least 30 speed to double anything consistently in 4-4 on normal mode, so you can see that Ike is skating on a slippery slope with his spd. If even the slightest spd screwage occurs, his offense suffers tremendously. Though even if it didn’t, Ike gets a better shot at doubling swordsmasters, bosses, etc, so he cannot be overlooked for the speedwing just because he has good base speed. So you’re openly admitting that Titania has almost a 50/50 chance to take the speedwing from Haar… that’s just one GM cutting Haar’s odds at the stat booster rather heftily, and you didn’t make any counter towards my mentioning Rolf, Boyd and Mordecai wanting one as well, and those were just a couple examples. Yeah, that’s a waste since the CRKs fail at life. Do note that in 2-E, Haar still has to compete with Neph, Brom and Mordy for that speedwing if you’re looking to use it immediately but also effectively. Nah, that just makes it legal, but the age discrepancy still makes it gross. My point stands. In 3-5 (and in general), using Reyson and not Haar > using Haar and not Reyson, and as far as I’m concerned that’s one valid platform on which to measure a unit’s worth. No, the ones directly south, as in just east of where the BK is sitting. Also, I think you meant without Reyson’s help, otherwise you just gave me a freebie. This is 3-7 we’re talking about, your units have had 5 chapters to level up, and each unit is likely getting at least one level per chapter. So, let’s look at who can really double: 20/7 Neph Base level Lethe Ike 20/20/1 Titania 20/17-18 Oscar Base level Shinon Gatrie (if crowned) Mia Ranulf The hawks 20/11 Rolf That’s quite a lot more than 2 people who are doubling :) You’re vastly underestimating the offensive capabilities of the GMs here. Titania ORKOes wyverns at base strength with a steel poleax, as does Janaff. Then you have wyrmslayers available for ppl like Ike and Mia, and one adept floating around, and some killer/brave weapons you carted from the CRKs. Giving Shinon a killer bow, he has 68-70% crit in 2 hits, and more than 75% when besides Rolf. I could continue, but I think I made my point at showing how you were underestimating the team’s doubling potential. Here, I have a for you. If you mean saving Elincia from getting mauled, then anyone with 9 move can perform the same function. And again, you almost seem oblivious to the fact that Haar depending on Reyson for that function is as much, if not more of a point for him than it is for Haar. You can’t assume that we’re piling on all your weaklings onto team 3 so they can power level in 4-5. If that was our prerogative, why put Haar on that route in the first place? Pretty sure I countered this already. You have 2 forced fliers (Elincia,Tibarn) and 2 forced laguz (Reyson, Ranulf), in addition to whatever other mobile units you chose to bring along. The terrain isn’t that big of an impediment, though even assuming it is, it’s not stopping Reyson, so he’s just being more useful in getting your slowpokes to keep up than he might normally be. That’s not countering the second sentence, which stated “Or, if you’re willing to reap the chapter for some exp, Reyson is netting you plenty of ranged attacks against those deadly tigers.” If hawks and ravens are getting past your defensive line, then so are tigers and cats since they have the same move, just that they can’t fly across trees and rivers. At that point, I question how you can even beat the chapter with such an approach, much less use Reyson and Haar. The difference is Naesala has a way to work around this flaw that doesn’t involve any major resource consumption or detouring. For Haar to eliminate risk from mage attacks, he either needs spirit water or nullify, though more likely both, whereas Naesala just has to avoid a single enemy in 4-P and use his mobility properly in 4-3. The snipers only do about 30-35 damage to him, so if a sniper hits him, he can still take on anything else that comes at him in a given turn. Also, Naesala won’t face many bow threats going north so long as someone takes out that bowgun ***hole. 3 turning 4-E-1? I’d hardly think so. Anything below 4-5 turns involves massive luck manipulation, which you can’t really assume applies for hard mode. And I stand by my comment that Rafiel’s crap move and durability will hurt his flexibility of use enough that Reyson is competitive even in a low turn count setting. Ike: D’oh, we forgot about that general with the tempest blade General: I got really *****y accuracy with my 55 hit weapon but I still pwn joo! Rafiel: Nooooo! *dies in 1 hit* General: Whoa… that was about as difficult as ripping a paper towel in half. Reset Ike: Dang it, there’s a bolting dude up there. Sage: The power of thundah compels you! Rafiel: Gaaah *gets doubled and dies* Ike: Why the hell did I bring this walking tissue in the first place? Neither of those would work. Shinon cannot target the bolting sage from the middle area even with 3 range and Tibarn cannot take out the blizzard sage since he is on a lone tile, meaning you can only attack him at 2 range. The feeling’s mutual. Fix’d for accuracy.

He’s beautiful. http://fireemblemblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/oliver.jpg How can you possibly look at such perfection without considering changing sexual orientation? Whereas Haar would either fall in love with Oliver’s magnificence or simply fall asleep, Reyson sees past Oliver’s amazing aesthetics for the crooked man he truly is. All this shows is how intense he is, which is much cooler than Haar being the epitome of laziness. And Ashera can turn almost everyone to stone. That doesn’t automatically make her awesome. More like angry, heavily burdened but ultimately badass heron vs some pedo pirate with major fatigue issues. No, silly, he’s not taking away exp from your other units, which means fielding him = more kills and thus exp/levels for everyone else. It really just comes down to some simple math. Even if Reyson only gets to vigor an average of 3 units for 5/10 turns, that’s still 15 player phase attacks he’s responsible for, whereas Haar himself is only responsible for 10. Sure, he can produce a lot on enemy phase, but so can the people that Reyson’s vigoring since they can reach enemies much sooner than had he not been there. And of course I’d argue that Reyson is vigoring more than half the time and averages more like 3.2-3.5 vigored units when not popping grass, so there really is no contest. This isn’t bad how? Every time he gets hit by a thunder type mage, he probably has to heal, which means hogging the attention of a healer or popping a concoction. And they’ll hit him pretty often since his avoid is far from superb. Plus, a lot of time mages come in groups of 2 or 3, so he can easily face 20-30% chances of dying, which is horrible. The point about criticals was mostly concerning mages, since every mage that has a critical% chance on him has a chance of killing him instantly. Though, now that you brought this up, a halberdier doing 30 damage from a crit is a lot since Haar has maybe 50-60 hp depending on his level. Losing >50% of your hp to a lolberdier is pretty lame. What you’re describing is situational. If you want to play that card, look at 3-8. There’s 2 druids and a fire mage all located in the same general area as the boss, and I recall there being a thunder and wind mage close to each other in the middle area of the map as well. Or we could look at how sleep mages in 3-E, 4-3, 4-4, etc sabotage Haar’s ability to go solo parts of a map even when using spirit water. I’d assert that there’s more situations where Haar risks getting mauled by mages than there are ones where he can pace himself between singular mage attacks, though feel free to prove me wrong on that. Availability alone isn’t worth much at all. Is Ilyana hax because she has the highest availability in the game? Yes, it’s quite clear Haar wins availability, but Reyson is exceeding Haar’s performance by huge factors when their availability overlaps. Also, your comment about “offence kicking in” is grossly oversimplified. Haar cannot be attacking all the time. Occasionally, he’ll be ferrying, or taking a concoction, or spirit water, or he won’t be able to reach any enemies with 9 move, or you’ll want to have other people attack first, etc etc. I’m assuming Reyson kicking in only 70% of the time refers to how much time he won’t spend popping addictive hallucinogens/stones. But, if he’s allowing 3-4 people to attack, or heal, or reach a destination sooner, one could easily claim his offence is in effect 210-280% of the time. I’m sorry but there’s no way any individual unit can compete with someone who is producing 2-3 times as much as the average unit, Haar included. Agreed, though I don’t think you realize that base level Elincia does 32-36 damage to Ludveck, and can kill him if she activates stun just once in four attacks. Plus, if you play your spacing right, Elincia could attack Ludveck twice in a turn, so Haar isn’t quite the only bosskiller in the level. I generally have Elincia hit & run those crossbow dudes since she can 1RKO them in 2 hits via the amiti, have her vigor’ed by Leanne, and do it again. Once all the bow threats are gone, she’s free to do as she pleases on offence, at which point my claim stands. Okay, Elincia depends on the aforementioned hit & run strategy, but are you seriously going to use Leanne on anyone but fliers if she’s not ever going to descend the ledge until all the enemies are gone? Who said anything about Brom needing to kill the enemy? He just needs to keep those suckers at bay. If you’re not using anyone in part 2 seriously, you might as well disarm whoever’s guarding the chokepoints. But of course I suppose Haar is likely to be used, but he can fly around and find targets at will anyway to gather exp for himself. One hammer user, and you can just dispose of him with a Calill meteor attack or something. Even if Mordy is popping grass every turn, he has the best raw durability on the team and is 2RKOing anything that attacks him at 1 range, so it’s hard to be displeased with his performance. I never said he was doing better than Haar, just performing more than adequately at his role in the chapter, which is preventing the enemies from further passage. Haar > Kieran, Mak, etc indeed. However, you’re forgetting that if you save the speedwing in 2-E, you get it back in 3-2, and there’s a lot of people in the GMs who want to up their speed. Titania, Ike (can get spd screwed with his 35% spd growth), Boyd, Rolf and quite a few others definitely want the speedwing, and Reyson allowing anyone to take the speedwing > Haar hogging it. It’s a lot more helpful to have options to beat the most durable enemies in part 3 versus using it on part 2 enemies you don’t even need to kill anyway. Eg/ Boyd can 1HKO gens with a hammer, which is good for him considering how bad his offence is vs most other enemies early on because of his spd issues. 33% chance of critting is 57% in 2 hits. That’s far from guaranteed, and the largest stat deviations occur when you’re closest to 50%, so there’s a very good chance of getting screwed out of criticals, though there is also the chance of getting a large string of criticals. All to say, it’s just unreliable to depend on the killer axe for kills and saying he one rounds every other general he comes across is undoubtedly flawed. You made it sound like he landed a critical every 3 hits, which is a different statement entirely. Wth does this have to do with my point? And again, sex with Jill = wrong, and I doubt you can show that Haar engages in coitus with other partners as well. Anyway, here’s my rebuttal. http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress....ng_it_wrong.jpg I wasn’t arguing he couldn’t, all I said is that there’s methods to kill Lombroso efficiently that definitely involve Reyson but don’t necessarily involve Haar and putting celerity on Titania is one of them. Though now that we’re mentioning celerity, Reyson easily makes the best use of it. With it, he has 10 move transformed, meaning he can keep up with even your most mobile units, he can vigor & run more easily and he has more flexibility in setting up quad vigors, all of which is way more useful than Haar just reaching enemies sooner. I was talking about really distant enemies, like the ones close to the BK, that won’t reach your party by turn 12. Besides, everyone and their mom will kick *** in this level because of how under-levelled the enemies are, and since they suffer from bad movement as much as you do, it’s very easy to pace yourself vs just getting swarmed at once. Though most importantly, Reyson is the one most responsible for allowing your units to actually meet those enemies who are otherwise too far to reach normally in 12 turns. I don’t see what this has to do with whether enemies will reach Reyson or not. Snipers would have 2 move in the water + 2 range, meaning Reyson would have to be 4-5 squares into the water, but this just means he can move 4 spaces towards your units, vigor, then move 4 spaces in another direction. Or, if he has celerity, there probably won’t be any concern at all. I meant Jesus in a metaphorical sense. Think of it as meaning some character with legendary/mythical ability or something. That’s nice, but the enemies in the northeast corner of the map are all stationary before turn 5, so it’s best to get as many characters down there as soon as possible, which is where Reyson comes in handy. I wasn’t claiming Haar wouldn’t make it onto Tibarn’s team (or any team for that matter), just that his combat ability wouldn’t stand out as much because of the sheer amount of competent fighters you now have available, even if they’re spread in 3 groups. Without Reyson, it takes at least 4 turns to beat Izuka, possibly more. With Reyson, it takes 2 with some clever planning, and 3 turning is amazingly simple. Or, if you’re willing to reap the chapter for some exp, Reyson is netting you plenty of ranged attacks against those deadly tigers. Again, Haar has no way to match this. Seriously? I’ve never had an issue with that. Hawks and ravens are the most rare enemy type in this level, and are also the easiest to kill. A simple crossbow or arcwind attack kills them instantly, then you might’ve acquired birdfoe, and the ravens in particular have really pathetic attack power. Reyson has nothing to ph33r. There’s no doubt Haar is useful here, you just went on as though he was crucial or something. There’s only one crossbow user in 4-P, and he only poses about a 50% chance to hit, it isn’t fatal, and Naesala has a good 40ish% chance of landing tear for an insta kill. In addition, if you just get rid of that lone crossbow dude with someone else, Naesala has nothing to fear for the rest of the level aside from archers, which 2-3RKO him and have maybe 40 display hit. As for the desert, Naesala simply out-mobilizes everyone, so his durability is of no concern unless you’re making really careless moves. So? That doesn’t make Reyson any less valuable if you choose to use him. Reyson would get a slight negative for taking a better unit’s slot, but he destroys that negative by being made of pure, un-distilled win. Plus, Reyson has much better move and durability than Rafiel, so it’s not indisputable that Rafiel’s being used even if you’re aiming for really low turn counts. He has 7 move with celerity whereas Reyson has 8 without when transformed, and Rafiel can get ORKOed by long range tomes, in addition to not having canto, so he’s much more of a defensive liability than Reyson. Say what? [insert predictable concluding statement summarizing why Reyson > Haar]

What's the point of a list based purely on subjectivity?

Aw, don’t be such a party killer. Haar has really inappropriate shmecks with Jill whereas Reyson had the guts to punch Oliver so hard he broke his fist. http://keiiii.deviantart.com/art/HERON-PUNCH-84676569 As cool as Haar’s pirate-ness and sleepy habits are, he cannot possibly compare to the raw manliness that is Reyson. This is incorrect in more ways than one. First of all, Haar isn’t going to be at base stats when Reyson joins, which means you’re understating his stats, but you also have posted Reyson’s untransformed stats when he likely will be transformed almost all the time on every chapter he’s in, meaning you’re vastly understating his stats. This is irrelevant in the big picture anyway, since comparing these units statistically says nothing about Reyson’s unique function to the team. He can vigor up to 4 people at once, and since there’s always many good units with canto, setting up a 4 unit vigor is trivially easy. So what you should be comparing Haar to is Janaff, Ulki, himself and Mist. Obviously Haar can only tie himself and begins to lose massively when considering the presence of the 3 other characters, at least as far as player phase is concerned. No disagreement there. However, Reyson has an exp pool that’s even less limited than the healing pool. While attackers are limited by the enemies on a map and healers are limited by the number of injured units, Reyson’s only concern in regards to exp gain is the turn count of a chapter, which he’s helping to lower significantly in any case. Now why exactly would Reyson ever be untransformed? He’s available in 12 chapters, 5 of which have laguz gems, the other 7 of which there are 6-8 laguz stones available, depending on what you did with your part 2 stones, which are more than likely saved. Though, even if Reyson didn’t use a stone in a chapter, he can still lay on the backlines for 2 turns popping olivi grass and won’t risk untransforming for the rest of the chapter. What? How? If Reyson gets hit transformed, there’s no police dictating that he must get healed immediately, just that you need to use him more carefully in regards to avoiding enemy exposure. Considering that Reyson is by far your largest offensive catalyst on player phase, he’s actually responsible for enemies ahead to either be dead or blocked from a clear path to him. And thunder sages, and elthunder, and arcthunder, and he also gets hurt pretty badly by mages using other magic types. Not only that, his luck is a bit low, so some enemies have a critical rate on him in the early going. Again, Reyson’s offence (and defence, healing, mobility, etc) manifests itself in what he gets vigored units to do. I’d say Reyson being able to allow units to move twice in a turn, or have them at peak biorhythm, or fill a unit’s laguz meter, all the while providing some healing through blessing is quite a ways more useful than Haar just being wtfhax as a combatative unit. This map is basically *wait for 8 turns and kill whatever you can, not that it matters anyway because exp gain is crap*. Even though Haar is your best unit here, it doesn’t matter in the slightest because of the nature of the chapter. Again, this is a wait for x turns type of map, there’s not much point in killing Ludveck right away because you don’t lose BEXP waiting out the 15 turns and get a lot more CEXP for your units, which I suppose is important if you’re considering using Brom, Neph or Haar in the future. So, Haar’s only use in the map that isn’t just selfishly soaking up kills to better himself is to chokepoint enemies from passing any further, but people like Brom, Mordecai and even Elincia can do that just as well. As for using the hammer, that’s generally a weapon you’d want to save for later. Part 3 generals are pretty hard to one round, and 4-E-1 is a general-fest, so wasting the hammer here for somewhat frivolous purposes is going to ultimately hurt you in the long run. It would make more sense just to say he has a 33% chance of critting. In any case, the killer axe just gives him a more unreliable way of killing enemies, so I don’t see much value in that. Since this is HM we’re talking about, plugging Haar with BEXP won’t quite get him to lv 19-20 and he has a high risk of not reaching the required 22 spd to double Ludveck. That is, unless you give him the 2-3 speedwing, at which point Haar’s resource consumption is becoming quite hefty. And of course, any BEXP Haar chooses to use is BEXP that Reyson doesn’t need, meaning he’s allowing other units to use more BEXP by being a member of your team. Advantage -> Reyson. Lolno. You’d be surprised how much of an impediment the NPCs are to the enemies, and Elincia, Brom, all the laguz you have, etc can more than handle this chapter. Okay… all you did was show me Haar’s updated stats. You didn’t compare them to Reyson’s, or to any upcoming enemies, so that was a complete waste of time as far as I’m concerned. Soz, my counter-argument is that Ike has 7 move, 9 with the boots :P Indeed, I can’t really counter this since it’s ascertainably true. I’d think it’s more effective to have Haar, Titania and Oscar defending the south area, in which case all 3 of them can canto into a v formation after attacking so they can all get vigored. This is useful in so many ways I probably can’t name them all. Suppose Oscar got hurt pretty badly from an enemy you thought wasn’t going to land a hit on him, with a vigor he can lay to rest any risk of dying by taking a concoction. Or in Titania and Haar’s case, they get their durability increased by being able to take on more enemies at range with a hand axe. Plus player phase kills always > enemy phase kills since you get to control who gets the exp better instead of having the enemies all bully a single unit. Oh, and Reyson is vital to any strategy that involves taking out Lombroso efficiently whereas Haar can be overlooked to say, Titania with celerity. Haar killing enemies that no one else will even reach is again, only benefiting himself and has no real value outside of that. Reyson is doing more for you by allowing your newly joined hawks to access enemies sooner, since that gives them strike gains, or he could help people like Ike and Boyd reach enemies they normally wouldn’t through vigor time. It’s a good thing the level is basically a huge ocean with piles of land, and non-wyvern enemies can only move 2 spaces to Reyson’s 8, so there really is no reason for him to be attacked. It’s like saying Leanne would ever get attacked in 4-3 supposing there weren’t any long range tome attackers. Reyson couldn’t care less if Haar was lv 1 or lv 20/20/20 or was Jesus, since he’s contributing to Haar’s output on one phase as well as others. That’s all I needed to hear :D Is this still assuming Reyson’s offence = daemon cards? Sure, Janaff, Ulki and Ranulf make for good competition for the laguz stones, but Reyson is arguably making the most use of it because of the h3x nature of vigoring, so I’m willing to argue he gets first dibs on it. I C what u did thar. Actually, proper use of Reyson allows you to reach almost every enemy before the CRKs do, so him getting your team more exp as well as lowering your turn count and every other redundantly stated benefit of vigor is pretty win. Even if Haar isn’t there, Reyson has plenty of subjects he can be a boon for whereas again, Haar depends on Reyson to really reach enemies before anyone else can. I can’t say anything for Reyson when he’s not around, so conceded. Just like in 3-10, using Reyson effectively means you can reduce the amount of kills that NPC laguz get while also reducing turn count and him improving the entire team > Haar going on a killing spree. Large maps play in Reyson’s favor since he’s increasing team mobility by getting multiple units to move farther than they usually would in a turn. Seeing as how we can choose who goes in what army, there’s a lot of good units one could potentially put on any given team, thus reducing the value of Haar’s combat ability. So he has great mobility? As does Jill, and she’ll probably be on Tibby’s route due to being underlevelled. Then you have Tibarn, Elincia, possibly Tauroneo, Ranulf and so many others (like any non-forced GM, for instance) that make Haar seem like just another pwn attacker. On the other hand, Reyson is guaranteed to reduce turn count, which thus leads to more BEXP, or at least more flexibility in what you do each turn, which I cannot stress enough is of paramount value. Skrimir too, but that’s arguable. The “weaklings” don’t really need that much protection in any case. Aside from Sothe having great durability (very good speed and an avo affinity = major avoid), the level is composed of a 2 square chokepoint to the north and a 3 square chokepoint to the east, so you’d only need 5 attackers to hold off the initial enemy burst – the 2 you’re already provided in Skrimir and Naesala (and Leanne but in a different way). Supposing you beat 4-E chapters ultra fast, then any heron is crucial to use except in 4-E-2. Haar, on the other hand, is arguably at his worst. You’re choosing your best units 10 units out of about 73 choices, and you have people like the royals, marksmen, reavers, trueblades, etc that probably take priority. Not only that, his lack of spd makes him stand out as meh in 4-E-2, 4-E-4 and 4-E-5, maps where most units are 1RKOing everything in sight. Now supposing you take your time with 4-E chapters, then Reyson's vigoring potential is at its peak since he doesn't have to worry about taking olivi grass. Plus, now Reyson gets to vigor some of the most overpowered units you have, so giving Tibarn, Caneighis and Naesala an extra attack is incredibly valuable. Not really. 4-E-3 white dragons and 4-E-4 to 5 spirits target his paltry res, and there’s plenty of people who either match or beat Haar’s durability at this point. Too bad that’s one of the most heavily competed-for SS weapons. Not by a long shot. Speedy characters with low attack will likely have adept + a mastery to depend on for their offensive output whereas Haar is stuck not doubling, and having a near certain kill > almost certainly not killing the enemy. Though, going by each class; Reavers have more attack power and can attain up to 36 speed, so no doubling issues for them. Trueblades double everything, including auras without the assistance of Nasir. The hawks and Ranulf also fit into this category and even if they have say, 10 less attack than Haar, they’re doing almost twice as much damage to auras + spirits thanks to doubling. Nope, Haar cannot double an aura even when using Nasir, which is pretty sad. Then marksmen have –you guessed it- more speed, and that wondrous 1-3 attack range with the double bow. I could go on, but it’s pretty obvious that Haar’s well past his prime and the higher altitude of the tower is somehow causing him to fall into a distant sleep. ??? Maybe you should’ve brought this up earlier. It baffles me why you’d want to rescue anyone besides maybe Micaiah in 4-E seeing as how they’re among the easiest chapters in the game. Now just reverse the inequality sign and I agree :)

They were all manipulated. I mean getting say, a 30% crit chance twice in a row is a 9% chance, which is really high when you can re-try an attack many times per minute using savestates + arrow movement to burn RNs.

Don’t tell youtubers this but I don’t have the patience to make an entire playthrough just to get a few boss kills recorded. I use codebreaker to hack in character’s stats but I’m very careful to make sure everything is legit. I’ll only cap out the necessary stuff like strength, skill and sometimes speed and every other stat I hack in is based on the character’s 20/20 averages. Basically, even though I was technically using cheats, everything you see is possible on a regular playthrough, minus that little promotion blunder with Vanessa :/ I’d go more by how many different strategies you could use to kill the boss with minimal risk. There is a lot to consider in an Idoun vs Fomortiis comparison. -Idoun gets killed normally by Roy and Fa, assuming they have decent stats. The same can’t be said for Fomortiis unless you give Myrrh some body rings. -Idoun cannot counter at 2 range, which makes it virtually harmless to swarm her with ranged attacks. However Fomortiis has a pathetic hit rate of 130ish, and you’ll see in the video that many characters only face 30-40ish display hit. Another thing is that Fomortiis for some reason calls in reinforcements instead of attacking on enemy phase sometimes. -With the exception of FE6 berserkers and snipers, Fomortiis generally faces larger critical rates than Idoun. He is also more easily damaged because of the overpowered nature of the S rank weapons in the game, whereas Idoun is actually somewhat hard to damage with non-Roy-Fa characters. In fact, I’d say Fomortiis would be easier to kill if you didn’t bother with supports, for what it’s worth. I might’ve forgot some stuff, but meh. Berdo is harder to compare to them because he’s incredibly easy to kill thanks to the critical coefficient system, but he’s also pretty annoying with his stone spell (or was it fenrir?). That would involve showing Ivaldi/Excalibur animation again, which makes the video more redundant than it already is (I’ll openly admit the video is a bit repetitive :P) The red dragon is actually a pretty hard kill if you don’t use Nils, though you’d have to specify what constraints you were using. Wyvern kn/lord and Pegasus/falcoknight have very similar animations so I only included the triangle pierce critical, since it’s arguably the coolest way to take Fomortiis down.

Every promoted class in the game can ORKO the oversized bat monkey. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMKCMzMuxWE...re=channel_page So is Fomortiis the easiest endgame boss in FE history? I only see him, Idoun and Berdo in contention, though I hear the FE4 final boss is rather trivial if you acquire the narga tome.

You could add one in by using codebreaker.

There's also thieves and snipers that cannot ORKO Idoun even with a double crit. Edit: Updated the Idoun 1RKO collection to include Sue.

I apologize, didn't know that aurolea had effective MT versus dragons. I was assuming the Luce was the best tome when I did my testing which only did up to 16 damage per hit. In any case, the Red Dragon 1RKO video has been updated to include Renault.

Why would you use Renault for anything but staves?

That's rather arbitrary. Shouldn't the weight of a chapter depend on the number of enemies, the size of the map and the difficulty, among other factors? You can't possibly equate Lyn's prologue chapter to chapters 8-10.

Again, it’s a weighed decision. If the player feels the need for extra weapons and items, then sure, playing an optional chapter is ideal. On the other hand, if the gains from beating an optional chapter are at best trivial, then there’s no point in wasting your time. I’m not sure if all the gaidens need to be beaten for S ranking, but if they’re not, do you see any reason a player should waste a bunch of turns levelling Nils just to get 19x and 19xx? Now, I suppose you do want to vouch for as many levels as you can in order to be able to meet all your S rank criterion (exp rank aside) with some breathing room, so I can see a strong case for Lyn mode inclusion. By time I mean turn count only. There’s no value in how fast a player can move a cursor or perform trades in regards to comparing the merit of 2 units. I can’t say much in regards to enemy levels (I’m only on chp 19 in HHM) but if Eliwood/Hector get stuck on lv 14-15, just give them a boss kill or use the arena (assuming everyone else is working towards beating the chapter efficiently). I would contend that if Geitz weren’t going to be in play, then the effect is nonexistent (aside from losing a killer axe), and Geitz is only slightly above average, though Wallace sucks either way. I’d say the same in regards to Harken, Karel’s negative impact on the team is the difference between a brave sword and a wo dao, which Reikken argued on gamefaqs quite convincingly to be rather small, and I don’t think the difference between Karel and Harken’s performance is really that large just based on looking at their averages. And again, if Harken isn’t being used, Karel’s not going to be punished for it. All to say, Geitz vs Wallace and Harken vs Karel isn’t quite the same thing as Sety vs Cyas where you’re obviously losing out if you take the latter option. Though, even then, they have the same staff rank, so all you’re losing out on is the offensive production of holsety, but having great offence in that game isn’t difficult because of the counter critical coefficient system. Tl;dr I can’t think of any A vs B recruitment options where the inferior option is hurting you significantly just from the act of forcing a superior character to not be on the team. Probably a more appropriate argument for moving Karel up and not for discussing to Lyn or not to Lyn. Anyway, I agree with everything else you said, so no need to quote everything.

True, though there exists a conflict when you consider efficiency. On the one hand, the TP gets a red orb (I think) from S ranking Lyn mode along with several better developed characters. On the other hand, the TP is essentially playing 10 avoidable chapters, which is increasing playtime significantly. I think the best route would be just to consider both possibilities in a comparison. Eg/ Suppose Kent is about tied with Lowen in HHM but beats him when adding in LHM. Since Kent has one outcome where he is superior, he thus emerges higher on the list. Of course, things get complicated when you consider a character slightly beating another in HHM but then slightly losing when LHM is added in, since the result would be roughly a tie. Though, no one ever said tiering were easy, otherwise we wouldn’t be having these discussions 5 or so years later :P Huh? The requirement to meet Geitz is 50 combined level-ups between Hector, Eliwood and Lyn. That means you could train all 3 characters and have them each at lv 16-17 or train 2 of them to lv 20 and have the third member used as a filler to reach lv 10. That doesn’t sound particularly difficult. If anything, Wallace gets punished for forcing you to have under-developped lords, though I guess benching one of Eliwood/Lyn isn’t too unrealistic. Nah, probably something arbitrary like only counting a unit’s performance when they’re “blue”. Or maybe I used the example of FE9 Stefan being bottom tier because he’s pretty impossible to recruit without a treasure map, or how considering character recruitment was similar to considering the weapon they brought as a positive. Aren’t you the one who said game difficulty doesn’t make a difference in a tier argument? I think you pulled that card several times in the Sacred Stones tier list.