grandjackal
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Posts posted by grandjackal
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LOL well played.
Ymir's "backstory": Just recycle Gonzales'
Maybe they're preparing us....
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Again with missing the focus of tier lists.
Just because it's optional doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the optimal version of the character, especially if it's not hindering other characters at all, only helping them.
Same with battle saves. You don't have to, but it's there, why not use it? It's simple, it's easy, and makes things MUCH more efficient. Only difference is instead of being an option for 10 missions, it's an option that's with you the whole time that makes the game so much simpler. Be it making some units stronger or being able to plan out each turn without consequence, it still makes the game easier and more efficient.
No.Lol.
EDIT: And I TOLD you it doesn't help Matthew XD
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Not doing Lyn's mode =/= efficiency.
Lyn's mode does nothing to hinder Eliwood/Hector mode units. It can only help you, especially the Lyn mode units that hang around before Lyn shows up again. Having a decent leveled Matthews is one of the biggest favors you can do yourself for starting a new HHM file.
Besides that, if it isn't considered, all it would do is make a bunch of units lower on the tier list, except for maybe Rath who doesn't really benefit from Lyn's mode at all. It just isn't useful information.
It's still optional. That's all I can say. That was my point to begin with.
So can we just drop it? We obviously won't agree on this.
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And why is that such a bad thing? Why is it even applicable to arbitrary limits? Lyn's mode isn't even limited to ranking, since it can be used to an advantage even if you're not trying to rank the game.
It's like saying that the only way the FEDS tier list is the way it is, is because we level characters up. If we didn't level up characters, it would look way different.
Because it only really effects the use of two characters in the reality of it all, those being Erk and Florina. Just not doing Lyn's Mode is faster. Especially with how boring Lyn's mode is...
But you guys return to the subject at hand. This is getting out of hand.
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Only if you passed it down to him via Midayle, Jamka or (lol) promoted Arden.
The biggest issue with Adean x Azel and other pairings is just that: he starts with only an iron bow as weapon.
I keep forgetting about that, that only people who can use the equipment can pass it down/receive it....
Ok, so he won't always have the killer bow.
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He wasn't added yet. They had been trying to rank each child with each possible father against itself, and then try and add those in.
Either way, he'll have at least the killer bow. Stands for something at least.
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That one? I usually use it up, then sell it (broken) to Adean or Levin to minimize money wasting.
Well me too, but I thought you meant you were abusing it for Diadora...x.x
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Yes you're missing the point.
And judging by a lot of points you make, you're missing the point of a tier list in the first place.
Just saying, only reason FE7's list is the way it is is because the optional Lyn's mode is used.
But I suppose I should drop it. It's going nowhere, and the point seems to be going over my head.
Besides, I'm not great with lists, but I'd like to study character balance for various reasons. The messes I made in the FEDS topics was just to learn more about the game, I suck at the Jugdral games in all honesty, only FE I can really argue about is FE3, and even then I'd probably suck at it. I'm surprised I'm even being taken remotely seriously here. XD
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I'm talking about GOOD infantry and mounts. Not just making it all one way or the other for every other chapter. Of course you won't make every unit worthwhile in FE, but you can at least make the best units of each class comparable.
Yeah, wonderful.
TOO BAD DISMOUNTING DOES FUCKING NOTHING TO HURT THE TOP TIER MOUNTS AND NOW THE LOW TIER MOUNTS SUCK EVEN MORE.
I get the point but....
*gives MightyZagaro a tranquilizer*
Chill dude. You get angry...Can't we all just get along?
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Live staff - 5000 per 50 uses. 15 experience per use. 7.5 levels per full staff. And she can also do a couple arena rounds without trouble.
I'm not following you there, sir.
*facepalm* Man, I am fucking stupid today, I thought you were talking about abusing the freaking silence staff...I'm so used to not giving her anything because she wouldn't be around long anyways. I always gave the silence staff to Aideen.
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Point being Azel is win when you throw ranks out the window.
Gufah! He's basically no better than a standard archer for how fragile he is. He promotes to do what Midayle's been doing the whole time. He isn't dodging anything either until he gets Wind or Thunder, at which he goes from not dodging to not dodging too well.
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When super smash bros 4 comes out, another fire emblem will probably be on the way. Roy got replaced, chances are Ike will be replaced because Marth is a ho'bag.
Wolf ain't coming back either, people were PISSED when they saw him instead of Krystal. He was also last minute.
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It's actually easy as hell to abuse her, since she uses staves.
Although it isn't really needed, as she caps her relevant stats (magic and res) rather early.
Show me the money for how she can manage it enough to get to 30. Staves are expensive to repair, Sigurd can give her a bit, but not all the money in the world, even whatever Dew nabs to give to her isn't enough.
Still seems a bit overkill even if it's just to max her magic and resistance rather than getting to level 30...
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Sorry to change the subject but, on the site with the averages, I find that Celice's base strength, magic, skill, speed, def and res are too high. When I do the math I get this for his base stats
Celice
Hp: 31
str: 8.2
mag: 1.7
skl: 8.7
spd: 8.1
luck: 10.1 (if the random # selected was 50)
def: 7.6
res: 1.7
I used the averages for Celice using the average stats for a lv.30 Sigurd and Lv.30 Diadora.
Either I did the math wrong or the site listed the base stats too high?
That is never happening. Ever. Thinking of it happening is hilarious.
Diadora has VERY limited time, isn't exactly the greatest unit in that time, and getting her to level 30 in that time is some serious abuse.
EDIT: Re-read your post and now I get the point, my bad. There's a point here...
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I pity Lena.
At least he doesn't look THAT bad in FEDS. He lost his cross-eyed look.
We all pity Lena...
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IIRC you could just use Grandtrain for the Meltdown effect, and you could use items to give Aura's effect. Neither are as broken as Hero Drinks, though.
The card game is the only reason I didn't rant about drawing spells due to the Card Mod ability, heh.
Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the summon system in FFX as a plus too. It was the first time where Summons weren't just a more fancy version of Black Magic and even had tactical value.
Doomtrain's rather unnecessary on single enemies though. Meltdown just single enemies. Only time he's nice to use on a single enemy is Red Giant. As for Aura...it's not like you need Aura in the first place, but when it arrives in some shape or form, the game is just...ugh....never thought I could 1 shot Ultima freaking Weapon...
Card Mod was useless with all the various mods anyways and with all the crap enemies drop.
Much more use than FF8 summons for sure. You still don't need them though...unless a no sphere grid challenge.
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Just so you know, Lakche isn't getting the Hero Sword. It belongs to Patty!Holyn (Bridget's best husband) or Nanna.
That's why I facepalmed. I'm aware.
Weapons and rings don't belong to anyone. You can't count the Silver Sword for Celice and you can't count the Hero Sword for Lakche. Compare them both with the same weapon, and look who is superior - probably Lakche slightly early on, though giving 20% avo to everyone in 3 spaces around you more than overrides her offense lead. And once Celice promotes it's gg.And I forgot about the leadership! Damn, I'm all thumbs today...
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Read my post again. I never said anything in support of factoring FE4's save system.
If you're going to compare the save system to something, Lyn's mode is not it.
Sorry, I have a hard time with words. Sometimes I miss the point.
IF it has to do with efficiency...Matthew is likely only to be faster than he already is, and he's doubling anyways. Matthew's still crappy, it isn't like he's suddenly gonna be uber killing, he just pinches a bit harder at best. Lyn has a hard time not sucking anyways. Kent and Sain are meh since Lowen and Marcus should be supporting by then and aren't that bad themselves. Sure, Marcus sucks later, but not for a good while. Serra's usable regardless because healers are nice to have. All it does for Dorcas is make him hit harder, since his speed growth is miserable. Rath joins late when he comes back anyways and Wil sucks. Only people it helps is Erk and Florina.
Or I'm missing the point again...
Wait...why the hell are we arguing? Didn't I just agree that what Mekkah said makes sense now with what you said?
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It's not that, you're countering one point at a time but you're not making individual quotes for it.
Anyways, I'll counter later.
Oh that...
...Laziness? ^^;; Sorry, I'll do it one by one next time.
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http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=celice&game=4x
http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=la...lex&game=4x
Almost comparable in terms of stats. Higher HP, Str, Mag, Def, Luk and Res.
While Lakche has Meteor Sword, Celice ought to have Critical.
Not really. Celice, with a 50 kill Silver Sword, is going to be pretty damn good. He gets to level 20 very easily, and he wants the Elite Ring + Leg Ring.
If you want to be efficient, you'll want to pass on a Elite Ring and Leg Ring to be more durable and conquer castles faster (and at the beginning of the game). Celice will reach level 20 quickly.
You get it like halfway of Prologue, so it's not a problem to get 50 kills.
I keep forgetting about those rings....
Now looking at those stats, why do I always think Lakche is so much better?...*looks at each character inventory, realizes Lakche still has Aira's Hero Sword* Oh. *facepalm* doy...
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How is Lyn's mode an arbitrary condition? There's absolutely no reason not to go to Lyn's mode if you're playing for efficiency not unless you like playing Hector's first chapters with a crappy Matthew or Lyn being even MORE of a liability than she already is.
If anything, it's not a condition, it's flat out common sense.
No reason to save every turn other than to ensure you'll win. Doing Lyn's mode in FE7 is just more reasonable, but FE4's battle saves is MUCH more pronounced.
FE4's battle save function is no more common sense than doing Lyn's Mode for Hector Hard Mode. Both are optional, but both make the game easier.
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Should I go into more depth as to why I think FFX factually has better battles than FFVIII? I shouldn't have to go in-depth like this, but it looks like I do.
- FFVIII is about limit break spamming. Magic is nearly useless unless you're using them with Selphie's Limit Break or casting the occasional Cure Spell, which is easily obsoleted by items.
- FFVIII rarely has battles that call for interesting strategies, especially when all you need to do is limit break everything.
- Even if you abuse the game's junction system, all it does is make the above much faster. Even without it, battles still don't take much thought, they just take longer to complete.
- Characters start out pretty much the same, and never diversify outside of limit breaks.
Here is why FFX is better in the battle department.
- Characters have different focuses in the beginning, and thus have different abilities much like FF4. Though the sphere grid allows characters to become similar, it is a far better system than the games where characters start out the same and never become different.
- A lot of the boss fights in the game have sub-mechanics that require a different approach to fight them with. Though these are never complex, it gives bosses more diversity and individual tactics for defeating them. FFVIII only has a couple bosses like this.
- Even random battles can take thought and some effort, especially if you don't have uber equipment that has every status protection available. Early game, character switching is used often because some characters are better at exploiting enemy weaknesses than others, especially flying enemies, which makes FFX one of the few games where accuracy is actually a useful stat to have.
- FFX has a ton more depth. People have irrpronouncable names for challenges they come up with, most notably no sphere grid. The game allows such strong preparation (using customization) and item strategies that it's actually possible to beat bosses with extremely low stats with the right setups. This, my friend, is good game design.
You forgot to mention the all out broken spells, the only useful spells in the game, those being Aura and Meltdown. Or the abilities like Revive and Recover. Along with the pointless stuff like the damn Card games. The story and characters sucked too. Lets not forget the only usable summon being Doomtrain, who basically comes in and rapes the enemy mindless. One cast, you win any battle. That game absolutely SUCKED with summoning too, thanks to that stupid summon friendliness nonsense.
Those were the highlights of FFX though. A good game is one where you can do so much with it. Its why games like Starcraft rock and games like most JRPGs suck. When I say JRPG games, I mean games like Musashi and Kingdom Hearts.
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In a game that has a "save automatically at the beginning of every turn" feature?
Talk about arbitrary conditions.
Not any more arbitrary than Lyn's Mode included in HHM for FE7. It's there, but nothing is forcing you to do it.
Looking at Chainey's post though, it makes more sense then...
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I would bring up problem hitting with Johan, but with 4 shots available and ambush, arguing against Johan being pretty cool is a losing battle. Johalva might have great defense and bows for fighting the dragon knights later (Johan doesn't wanna go toe to toe with Trabant either), but Johan slaughtering the legion of dragon knight generics>Johalva helping to kill Trabant...But with Johalva's strength, wouldn't two shots of the brave axe be enough? He's got more durability too and has great strength and skill growth (now thinking about it, with Lakche supports, neither are having too much trouble hitting things...). Johalva I don't see as bad or good. Lower mid at the least.
Johan? ...Well, no one else wants the pursuit ring. But one thing to consider is axe weight. He's pretty much only ever gonna use brave ax, but it weighs as much as most lances, and Fin screws up eventually with lance weight and can't double eventually. Johan will run into the same problem. Only difference is Johan is helping Lakche be an even deadlier fighter, has ambush, and a bit better growths. He's at LEAST above Fin, or in his general area. Above Fin, below Oifaye. In that general range, IMO at least.
I could actually see Celice going lower. Miserable start, a meh skill, takes a while to get to par with the various psychopaths on your team, gets Tyrfing rather late. He promotes and gets a horse, but he has to get to level 20 first. Only thing he can rely on is Sigurd's Silver Sword, which might or might not have 50 kills on it by then. He isn't keeping the Hero Sword Patty gives him because with how bad his start is, he'd whittle through that sucker too quick every battle. He'd much prefer his daddy's silver sword along with maybe a magic blade as ranged back-up.
The "new tier method" applied to FE4
in NES and SNES Era
Posted
Because Lyn's mode CAN be abused, but it is chosen NOT to. The white gem is more important than having a killface early. The game gives you a reason NOT to abuse a mode that can be abused for HHM. Battle Saves however, make the game a cakewalk since you can just trial and error the game. Battle saves don't just make the game efficient, they make the game unable to actually beat you. Ranked game or efficient play, battle saves make the game fail safe. Lyn's Mode is fair, battle saves is kiddy rails. What's the point of efficient play when you'll just use battle saves to win all the time? You can pull off unrealistic feats with battle saves, not just ensure you play efficiently. I had it so Lex!Skasha could defend Lenster from the javelin cav siege with the mage knight, the 3 sisters AND Ishtar by himself with nothing more than a thunder blade and a silver claymore by himself with the help of Lana's Libro every now and then. My whole army could continue to Conote without worry, they quickly took out general Muhammud's army (at least I think that's his name) because I had more units to spare, and they continued to take out the rest of the map. It was a completely unrealistic way to handle the situation, but it's efficient, right? It makes chance a nil factor. Fire Emblem without chance being a factor is just a game of "Watch Me Bulldoze the Enemy with No Effort".
The point is, battle saves make ANYTHING efficient and thus makes the game trial and error rather than actually thinking it through.
FE4, Geneology of the Holy Mulligan