Vhaltz

Mitsuki never told me anything wrt her weapons suspicions D1, we were both null on him and then she found him suspicious when she was making her D2 opener post. There was nothing that made me think Prims was scum individually, I found you scummy and the interaction felt suspicious so I commented on it. Also meh @BBM pointing out that naive doesn't make sense, I wanted to check if Poly would retract something through questioning before I outed it but w/e. At this point I'm not really sure if there's 5 antitown left like Blitz said because if Poly is still town then Weapons' godfather was a red herring unless there's another cop. I also know that the ITP isn't investigation immune because Weapons' PM said "one person" and I'm technically immune as part of the negative utility of my role I commented on here, so it's unlikely that there's a non-investigative immune SK/cult in a game with a mafia rolecop and two town cops. kirsche's flip also points at cult unless it's a red herring so something in the PMs so far is lying or Poly isn't really naive cop. Poly how do you know you're naive?

Heads up I'm probably gonna be the posting head again, idk if I'll be able to handle both the motk game and this one considering that we have a lot of shit going on until the 20th but if I can't I'll probably sub out of Mitsuki's game since they have people who missed the signups and wanted to play. That said I have to do lab work on monday and try to get accepted by an investigation group by the 18th for a masters degree (this I just found out today) so my attention might be divided for the next few days. I'll request V/LA as a last resort if I think I can't make it for one or two days, I don't want to sub out considering that FFM hasn't gotten a sub yet.

It doesn't look like FFM is going to post and I don't really see anything more happening this phase so go ahead I guess. @Refa Manix got almost lynched D1 as the only wagon in NOCers after deadline spread so fite me.

Mitsuki is like the only person who ever reads me correctly, you guys suck. Two no lynches end in universal loss and there's like an hour and a half left if I counted right so you should vote for an actual lynch instead of voting offwagon and leaving.

There's precedence for Cam disliking big wagons at least in the last few games, I was his mentor in Training and he spent all of D3 antagonizing both scum wagons because he thought they were easy and the third scum who wasn't getting any attention was scummier. I don't know if he was actually serious wrt the case on me but I know Cam doesn't really rely on conventional scumtells much and has trouble wording his suspicions as town so I don't see how "Cam has no cases" is anything but regular play from him. Idk I just don't think Cam turns off his brain enough that he would've immediately white-knighted Blitz!town with very little reasoning as scum knowing that people would scumread him for it just like in every other recent game. I'm not sold on Euklyd but he at least seems like the kind of nervous player who would try to coast by as scum with agreeable content (i.e things that other people have already found suspicious)

Blitz is totally a doublevoter because I forgot to remove his Poly vote. I'll switch to Cam if there's no other possibilities but I'd rather not have to

The lack of votecounts in this game makes things very confusing, I was under the impression that Cam was a major wagon over Euk fsr. Hammer is needed to lynch and that needs 8 votes so people should get a move on NOW.

Not sure what to make of Proto posting up an ISO and rolePM spec then disappearing while being completely oblivious to deadline, I'd lynch him over Cam but feels like a crapshoot atm. Rereading Euklyd I feel dumb for townreading him earlier, his only noteworthy suspicions throughout the day were Blitz and Cam by virtue of sheeping the general consensus at the time, his scumhunting on the side had wording that I don't really like. Is Euklyd normally passive aggressive about his suspicions like this? It's okay to find Weapons and Proto suspicious for something but Euklyd didn't really do anything with it and his Proto suspicion completely disappears in this post after some people commented that Proto's playstyle matched his town meta. It's not particularly strong but I'd lynch Euk > Proto ##Unvote ##Vote: Euklyd

"Vhaltz, are you suggesting that BBM/Blitz are cult then? Because masons with cult totally seems like something this game would have in it" No I'm saying it's like the only scenario in which I could see BBM/Blitz being scum with that claim and I don't think it's likely considering the way it came about. I'm in the middle of ISOing can somebody get a votecount?

Tbh a big chunk of the reason why I dislike the Cam/eclipse wagon is because I'm pretty sure she was trying to claim PGO and I figured scum would be trying to lynch that claim off a cliff. I didn't think there was cult earlier but it's looking more likely with 3p masons, if this is a Town vs cult game and the cult leader is amongst the lurkers I'm gonna cry. BBM's masonqt also doesn't make sense as cult because starting 12/3 with recruitment ability every night (implied from having two cultists) would be too OP. There's like the very remote possibility that Blitz/BBM are 2p cult and they lied about having a 3rd member only to have them claim after getting recruited N3 but that would be ##bigplays and I don't think its the case siince the vanillizer jokeclaim contradicts the "cult" sample rolePM having an actual role. anyway brb reading

I'm laughing right now but I want to cry

okay if Poly is actually a cop that last question is dumb but why the hell would you counterclaim a cop like that anyways it's clearly made to be an alternative way to call a mason

Don't think that's a fakeclaim, it's too risky, elaborate and actually gives a purpose to D3 start from a mod standpoint since I don't think using "theoretically town neighbors" as an alternative would've worked for the "you should doubt everything" flavor that this game seems to have. I didn't get any info from N1 and N2 actions but I'm guessing my role doesn't really need any? ##Unvote I'm going to go reread now because idk if there's any other real lynch alternatives to Cam. Why did you wait until 4 hours to deadline to claim this? (this is not a real question) Also did you ask Paper/SB if you would've theoretically vanillized a godfather/investigative immune with that role? Having scum in a pseudomason QT like that would be incredibly bastard but I could see it happening if there's a particular kind of investigation role that could out them.

To clarify I'd probably go Blitz >> BBM atm, Mitsuki isn't supporting my case and I've had enough spectator chats with Kaoz where I've been wrong about BBM being scum.

Not true because people with sparse content like Psych have gotten lynched D1 before and I was talking about people with sparse content like Proto and Kay along with the more no-content-ish lurkers. I don't like that you've been weighing cases in relation to whether or not people are getting lynched today (end lynch targets should have been fairly unpredictable in the 24 to 48 hour window of the day with the votals so spread out), but fair enough wrt the rest. I'm pretty sure we're staying home for most of the afternoon so we'll be around for deadline and checking the thread every now and then.

Also @Prims EM chat also said Shinorikins were having some sort of issues with Eury not actually staying at Shinori's anymore or something. They will probably have content soon as opposed to other unpredictable slots and Shinori is an easy read anyways so if you're going to shoot an inactive I don't think it should be them.

I couldn't do my lab work today because my primers weren't in yet so I'll have to go in again some other day gg. I know I said your point was good earlier but now that you've rephrased it like this I'm looking at eclipse's post and I don't think this is actually true thougH? I'm reading this more as eclipse being unsure about Refa and doubting one of the arguments in Weapons' Refa case. More like "this doesn't make sense, are you sure Refa is scum?" than "hey don't you think Refa is scummy?". It doesn't really make any sense either to think that eclipse had scum intent in trying to call Weapons' attention onto Refa when Weapons was already voting him at the time. Don't see how Cam's recent posts are scummy. If anything his "asking for ISOs is a scumtell" is bad logic but I don't really see scum intent in his posts. Unless he's buds with Blitz and had the guts to charge head on into the game by hard defending him his actions don't make sense as scum. I know scum can white-knight town wagons and etc but Cam in particular already defends big wagons as town enough and gets suspected a lot for being antagonistic that I figure he would be more cautious about it as scum. Leaning town. Eh, that said I've never actually seen Cam being scum so Prims or somebody else who used to play with him back in the day should give me their opinions. I think BBM is twisting something logical into something scummy here. There were 30+ hours left in D1 at the time I posted so there was no reason to work under the assumption that lukers weren't getting lynched, specially considering that the wagons were nowhere near being consolidated. His reason to argue my eclipse read is also literally just the same argument I used for eclipse!town not feeling the need to switch votes (because of case strength being similar) only reversed into a reason why she is scum with barely any explanation. I had a bad feeling about his earlier interactions with Prims and disregarded it because D1 scumteamspec is dumb, but I found it odd how he voted Prims and immediately found somebody else to go after once he posted, he dropped stating priorities after his #78 and I can't tell what he thinks of Prims anymore. His eclipse read in particular feels very weak considering that he's voting her above other suspicions he's been voicing since, which feels like scum leaving their options open with deadline approaching. wrt Blitz meta I know he posted odd logic as town in MLP but I don't think he'd make a case as convoluted as the one on Proto as town? My issues with him are less about the rolespec/general scumminess that everyone is handwaving and more about his cases sounding really forced, his latest post also reads like he has zero suspects and went for an easy vote so I'm not seeing how he is particularly efforting as opposed to just making large fluffy posts. atm I'd go Blitz ~= BBM >> FFM > others > Euk >> Cam > Refa Keeping Proto out until he posts actual content but he'd be alongside FFM. I initially assumed FFM lurking hard through D1 would be non-alignment indicative since he'd probably be doing it on purpose to avoid getting lynched early like in all other games, but his "I'll read and play later" feels more like an excuse to get away with not playing the game seeing as he checked out Furet's game and signed up for it.

Blitz is my only strong read, I've read the other active posters and don't find them scummy atm so I need to at least have an idea on which of the lurkers appear more likely to be scum. I don't see how establishing priorities is unnecessary. I skimmed and have to wake up early tomorrow so I'll be back once I'm done with my lab work.

lol SB Mitsuki shouldn't have died N2 because she correctly identified Junko as a shooter and should've roleblocked+killed him back.

I felt similarly wrt her weak townreads and nullreads as I was reading through, what I meant to say is that going from there to "this whole thing feels like town infighting" felt like jumping to conclusions way too early, which she did as town in NOCers and stuck out to me a lot. In retrospect kirsche's point about eclipse cheerleading a Refa lynch is good but I still don't think it's particularly telling, there's not much difference in read strength between "Blitz is rolespeccing for no apparent reason" and "Refa got a scumread from little content and it's suspicious" so I could see town!eclipse pointing out her issues with Refa while not moving her vote. I'd much rather lynch Blitz today, specially considering that eclipse is probably getting a replacement. Mitsuki thinks my explanation is dumb but #yolo wrt priorities I don't really know who I'd lynch besides Blitz, there's too many people with sparse content (FFM, Poly, Shinori, Kay, Proto) and if I had to choose I'd probably lynch Proto/Shinori if they don't post more by phase end. Agree with Weapons' feeling that Proto layed low after he stopped getting early attention and I'm pretty sure wallposter extraordinaire Eury would've bapped Shinori on the head repeatedly by now to post more, but atm they feel more like crapshoot lynches than anything. Wouldn't lynch Refa or Euk, I'd normally reread more now but Mitsuki is here so I can't spend all day on mafia ignoring her. I would appreciate it a lot if somebody put up ISOs. Mitsuki's lynch priority is Blitz >>> Eclipse > Proto/lurkers. She still thinks Proto is scummy but doesn't think that he can be buddies with Blitz. She thinks some points that were brought up against Eclipse were good, particularly wrt finding Refa getting scumreads from 4 lines bad when it was page 3 and it could've applied to almost everybody else.

Wow I read this completely wrong, apparently Mitsuki read it the way you're saying the first time around and was trying to tell me the whole time. Go me. ftr I read it like "Proto is townie and Weapons is scum everybody who is voting Proto should tell me why Weapons isn't scummier" and it read like a very weird combination of a hard defense on a badly based townread and a hard push on a weak scumread hence my thinking there were additional intentions etc. Anyway what I was holding back was this: That said I've been mulling things over during our commutes and I'm not really convinced Refa is scum anymore, seeing his earlier flurry of posts he could've posted that forced-sounding post earlier as a result of tryharding, and I didn't really have any other issues with anything else in his posts (his reasons for Euk townread are k). I also have trouble seeing him posting this as scum considering that it only serves to gather more attention upon himself and the cases on him, META ALERT I'm pretty certain Refa!scum would've waited it out and replied to the cases on him later to try to get people to reconsider while avoiding any additional attention in between. ...Which I intended to post right after my reply to Prims but figured I'd wait for you to post in case my reconsidering was dumb. ##Unvote ##Vote: Blitz Because his play at that point could've come either alignment and I thought your reasoning to call him town was way too stretched.

Eh don't claim imo, it's only slightly over 24h into the phase and at least one of the votes is RVS.

Wait there's one thing that I did want to post. Last time I checked eclipse voting people for bad play like rolespeccing was her standard modus operandi, much like Bard's. Her assumption of town in-fighting in her first page 2 post also felt very much like her jumping to conclusions about Conq being town very early in NOCers so I'm not really seeing the cases on her atm. Also BBM what did you not get about our Blitz comments? I was going to argue that Proto being the only active player holding an RVS vote at the time was wrong because I thought Euk was there at the time too but apparently he posted like 20 minutes later so I can't say with full confidence.

I finally got my replies from SB and just like I suspected I'm part postive utility/part negative utility as well. Inclined to just ignore the negative utility claims since bastard games are a thing. Also wrt all spec by Blitz/BBM and others, the Illuminati thing obviously points towards cult existing in this game (flip is coloured yellow instead of red) but with my limited knowledge of what Paper is like and the wording of pretty much all that the mods have posted it feels like this game is just intentionally trying to get people to speculate about literally everything. There are rules that imply roles involving dead people, there are rules that imply alignment changing roles, there are outright uncertainly-worded rules/mechanics and my PM in particular is a clusterfuck of paranoia. I don't think there's a cult as much as mods are trying to make everybody believe there is. No it wasn't? Refa was attempting to get people to weigh Proto/Weapons which is ok if you're trying to push your own scumread like you're saying but in context Refa's case on Weapons was weak enough that it didn't make sense to me that he'd do it for this purpose. It felt like he was forcing the hard-pushing type of post at a point of the game where it made no sense in order to get people to look in a certain direction (weapons/proto). What This reasoning is ??? Why would Proto act scummy on purpose for something that scum would gain no benefit from doing? As scum you can't predict where people vote so drawing attention to yourself is an awful move in almost any situation. This reads to me like Blitz is trying to twist Proto's actions into being somehow scummy in order to keep his vote when most of what Proto's been doing is posting weird game opinions. I'm pretty sure Blitz and Proto aren't scum together. Both Mitsuki and I agree that Blitz is more likely to be scum than Proto atm. Mitsuki has a hunch that Prims is town from this post as well but she needs to see more from him. I have some stuff in a notepad but need to see posts from a few particular people before I update anything else.

I pretty much ignored it because I assume there's an eclipse/Weapons old mafia interactions injoke I'm not getting.