Anouleth

Silencer is gone, dude. Can't let people abuse crits.

I would have thought that Sol and Soiree would be pretty decent... Discipline seems like a great skill.

On the other hand, it's not really Ike's fault that they won't give him a chance. In the end, Ike ends up vindicated. It's not like they left because Ike screwed up a mission or made a serious mistake because of his inexperience. How was Ike supposed to know that Nasir was a spy? It's not like Soren shows him some evidence, and Ike dismisses it because he doesn't trust Nasir. But it is an endearing character flaw. It gives Ike lots of opportunities to bravely stick up for his friends and show off just what a great guy he is. In the same way, Bella's clumsiness in Twilight only serves to give Edward opportunities to catch and show off just what a great guy he is. Hence why everyone calls her a Mary Sue despite that token flaw. "Sanaki Now then, Ike. I fully understand your feelings. Your passion for your employer is truly a beautiful thing. Would that my own fawning vassals shared your commitment." "Elincia No. I...What you said, you said in my defense and in my honor. It made me very pleased. Ike Huh? Elincia To see you so angry on my behalf...Your words filled my heart." Sure fucking sounds like he's being applauded. Soren agrees that the customs are "madness". Nasir admits that him not being executed is a "miracle" (i.e. Ike is Special because he's just so darn shucks good and sticks up for Elincia). And he's fully justified. Ike's "flaw" is that he's TOO passionate in sticking up for his friends when they're being mocked and shat on by Sanaki. Some flaw. And who are the people who get angry? The eeeeeeevil Senators, of course. ¬_¬ Wasn't one of Ike's "flaws" that he was too reckless and overconfident in earlygame? Tell me, when did Ike lack for confidence? Really? Please, is there any challenge that the Ike of Chapter 1 could not overcome due to a personality flaw? How is he different from the Ike of Chapter 28 in terms of personality? Oh sure, he's a better fighter and more knowledgeable and more respected, but how is he different, specifically, in terms of personality?

Actually, that's not true. Gender identity is formed by more than just "the way you are raised": you can't raise a boy to be a girl. There have been cases of babies with genital abnormalities (almost always male) being given gender reassignment surgery and then raised as the opposite gender, and they usually end up identifying as their original gender.

Yes. Didn't it also give bonus WEXP for killing an enemy?

Wouldn't you give it Giga Drain from Erika?

Except that despite these "flaws", nothing bad ever actually comes of it. Sanaki forgives him for speaking out of turn, because he's just sticking up for his friends because shucks darn he's such a nice guy. It's like how in Twilight, Bella being "clumsy" is a flaw that only serves to make her more endearing, to give male characters a opportunity to catch her when she trips, and it's a flaw that even gets taken away later on. In the same way, Ike being blunt and outspoken only serves to make him more likeable. When he's outspoken, he's always criticising and telling off characters who deserve it, it's always to show off just what a great and caring dude he is, that he doesn't care about petty things like birth and rank. And he's NEVER punished for it. Okay, he gets told off for it. So we're "told" that this outspokenness and his lack of experience are flaws, but they never actually serve to hinder him in any way: in fact, they are used to show how awesome he is. And what about all the ridiculously awesome stuff Ike does? Everyone loves and respects Ike by the end. Even Gatrie and Shinon willingly follow the "greenhorn" once they give him a chance. Sanaki gives him an entire army. Ike has a unique fighting style that's super awesome and powerful. He has a unique god-blessed super powerful sword that is the only thing that can harm the villain. Before he's 20, he's one of the greatest swordsmen in the world, and one of the most accomplished and respected military leaders in the world, admired by beorc and laguz together.

That's... really not true! FE6 in particular has really slow weapon ranks, hence why certain characters like Niime and Percival end up highly rated. Have you not heard the complaints about Tate/Zeiss/Clarine? So like Saul/Clarine in FE6?

I think that's a beautiful Barth you have there.

I can testify that this hack is interesting, that I've played the first two chapters and it's good. I will hopefully get on to playtesting chapter 4 on Sunday.

The sad part is that that's the same speed as Lowen. And less than Franz. Fucking cavs.

Even if Aeine proves this thing (and I don't see why it wouldn't be true), it would have zero impact on the tier list. That being said, I have noticed that Titania actually is in her own tier on the tier list. I think that at least should change. Oh, I don't fucking know, maybe because that's the whole point of this thread? "If anyone has suggestions on how to make the playthrough's goal more valid, feel free to post. " What Aeine said in the very first post. No, it isn't. What specific strategy is assumed by the tier list? Please, do tell me, because I try not to assume specific strategies when talking about the tier list. I really don't see how anyone can think Oscar is better. Even at really high levels (like, 20/15 Oscar and 20/20 Titania), he doesn't beat her. Ike is meh in earlygame and midgame... and I wouldn't really consider him better until he gets Ragnell.

Temporary flaw. Only exists to make him look better later on. No, he went to help Mist and Rolf because he just cares *so damn much* about his friends and family.

I like it when they're evil. Give me Ashnard and Lekain over Lyon's wishy-washy lameness any day.

From what I understand, at 10/15, Henry is only about 4 points behind Sariya's speed. Since Sariya is apparently capable of doubling just about everything, I get the impression that Henry isn't going to get doubled all that much with a good double partner and so on. He backs that up with leads in other areas, namely, everything except resistance, which he loses by one point. He has 6HP and 5DEF, for example, and a huge accuracy advantage (14 more skill and 8 more luck).

What are his flaws in FE9 again?

He might mean removing counter-attacks entirely. That would certainly make the game more like chess (where it's impossible to fight back on your opponent's turn).

Isaiya - Hot and cool as get out of here. Kezhda - ^ Catalena - Badass. Lekain, Izuka, Valtome - There's no such thing as being too evil. Or too crazy.

No, they were wrong. It's one thing to have outdated standards, but as I recall, many older tier lists were atrocious at actually applying those standards in any rigorous way. I remember the days of bottom tier Syrene, of FE10 Soren being considered good, and so on. There are still people who defend characters that seem to us, undefendable under anything but the most warped tier list standards imaginable (like Wendy, who barely beats Treck in 20/20 stats). It's fine to have different standards. The problem is that when you get down to the bones of the issue, most people really do apply efficiency standards, even if it's in a different way or inconsistently, or they don't call it that for fear of association with inflexible tier list standards. Killing enemies is good. Completing chapters is good. Not dying is good. Reaching objectives quickly is good. Even you agree with all of this. So basically, you want the scope of the tier lists to be even narrower, right after complaining that they're too specialised? You want the tier list to focus like a laser on the absolute minimum turncount possible, in which Titania is not useful because she lacks the weight to contribute meaningfully to a 2 turn strategy on 17-2? And really, Aeine is not the first person to consider Titania being below Marcia/Jill, so don't act like this is some dramatic paradigm shift.

It can't be used against her. Titania is not unique in that when she kills an enemy, the experience does not go to another unit. That is true of every single combat unit in the game. I accept your premise that Titania's lower weight means she cannot do certain tricks later on in the game, and that is a minor advantage that Oscar and Kieran have over her, and it means that if you are playing absolutely optimally they will take preference for BEXP/CEXP. But by that same mark, every character is an exp hog that should never be used. Using Oscar makes it harder to train Kieran, just as much as using Titania does. The important difference between Oscar and Titania is not that Titania gains less experience or that there's a smaller "benefit" or any of that vague woolly bullshit, the difference is that 4 points of weight. If Titania had 35 weight instead of 31, this entire thread would be so much trash and you wouldn't care about Titania gaining 2 exp against Oscar's 30. So really this thread should be titled "Titania doesn't weigh enough". Because Titania has 4 less weight. Which has nothing to do with her being a Jeigan. And Titania certainly does have potential. Like, the only difference between her and Oscar is that small amount of weight, and I think some supports, because her high axe rank makes up for his better strength. What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Guess who else levels up quickly? FE10 Astrid. Whoop dee fucking doo.

If we did it your way, you would be penalising other characters for having high availability. After all, in 1-6, Tauroneo is a very capable fighter, that doesn't require any previous investment, just like Caineghis. However, he's not really so great after he rejoins in Part 3. Essentially, you'd be saying that existing in a chapter and being below average is a negative (which is what smashfanatic thinks, hence putting Lehran in the middle of every list he makes). This is also referred to as "net utility", because we are adjusting the rating of a unit based on how they contribute compared to the other units on the team, rather than "gross utility" which just adds up all a character's contributions. Moreover, I don't think that current lists/RTUs really penalise low availability or reward high availability. Units like FE9 Rolf and FE10 Ilyana have great availability, but they're still shafted on the tier lists. Yes, it can't possibly just be a difference of opinion.

All combat units "take" experience from other units. Why does this matter? Titania could gain 200 exp per battle and it wouldn't affect this comparison, since even if she gained 200EXP every battle it wouldn't meaningfully affect her performance. Except that Titania doesn't need to increase her stats and promote. All you have proven is that Oscar needs exp and that Titania does not: I do not see how that is a point in Oscar's favour. Except that Titania is not weaker than Oscar in midgame or even lategame. The only advantage Oscar has is having 4 more weight. Unless you are trying for a minimal turn count, this is not a particularly useful advantage. The smallest amount possible to use Titania is not at all. You are, to my knowledge, never forced to have her enter combat.

In FE5, there's also a 1RN system, so you don't get dramatically diminishing returns on skill like you do in other games. And it affects some skills too, like the sword skills.

I agree that the hyperbole that people use to describe them can get excessive: especially FE9 Titania who, while good and arguably the best character, is not even close to being in a league of her own.

A good example is Ashnard. Ashnard is not really very complex. He gets little character development. But he still makes for an engaging and effective villain. His reason is well established: he hates his son and will do anything to stop him being king. Of course it's irrational. That's why they're called emotions. But he's not cruel in other senses. Aside from his son, he never does anything to hurt anyone. And he is kind to Guinevere. So it would seem that he doesn't have a cruel nature.