Your problems with Christians

[Blacken]

But the thing is, Science DOES have an explanation to how life originated.

It's not a particularly good one. More evidence and experimentation is necessary to flesh out the abiogenetic explanations.

[Florete]

His way of saying it is correct. He should not change it because you are incompetent.

Evolution has been observed at the genetic level. The mechanisms for mutation are known and understood. Falsifiable hypotheses have been tested and found to hold, whereas countering hypotheses are not falsifiable and have not been demonstated to be true experimentally.

Gravity has been isolated and the physical interactions necessary are known and understood. Falsifiable hypotheses have been tested and found to hold, whereas countering hypotheses are not falsifiable and have not been demonstated to be true experimentally.

God is neither falsifiable nor testable.

Now see, that makes perfect sense to me. Thank you.

It is not a flame to call stupid and irresponsible statements stupid and irresponsible.

You are capable of using the Internet to do your own research. If you will not, it is not my responsibility nor anyone else's to do what you should be doing yourself.

And, yes, I am a smart person. I do my own research and I take the necessary steps to understand it. Perhaps you should seek to emulate it.

It's not your responsibility, so why are you bothering with me? If you're smart enough you have no reason to go out of your way for such an incompetent one as myself.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Defeatist Elitist]

The primordial soup concept? I have a basic idea of it now, but I will try to read most (if not all) of that at some point, I don't have time now. I am goig to go ahead and post a preliminary response though, subject to change upon reading, should I be incorrect in what I currently know about it. Heck, my point could even be explained in the article.'

Primordial Soup does not explain where the soup came from. I'll concede that life coul have been sparked from that. It doesn't matter though. Where did anyone of these elements come from? How can you possibly say it has always been there. Human minds can't grasp eternity or forever, so it seems logical to say that the earth is not forever. I just don't see how primordial soup would explain that. How either something came from straight up nothing or how the earth has been here forever.

Duuuuude. Ever heard of the Big Bang? Yeah, that's pretty well supported to. Go Wiki it as well.

[Blacken]

The primordial soup concept? I have a basic idea of it now, but I will try to read most (if not all) of that at some point, I don't have time now. I am goig to go ahead and post a preliminary response though, subject to change upon reading, should I be incorrect in what I currently know about it. Heck, my point could even be explained in the article.'

If you don't know what you are talking about, do not post. You shit upon the discussion by not doing due diligence.

Primordial Soup does not explain where the soup came from.

Abiogenesis does, though it has not been significantly tested.

I'll concede that life coul have been sparked from that.

What you concede is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter though. Where did anyone of these elements come from?

Light elements were formed during the Big Bang. These coalesced into protostars and early stars, which create heavier elements through nuclear fusion.

How can you possibly say it has always been there.

Nobody is.

Human minds can't grasp eternity or forever,

Bullshit.

so it seems logical to say that the earth is not forever.

Nobody is saying it is. The fact that you do not understand is not my nor anyone else's problem.

I just don't see how primordial soup would explain that.

Entirely different topics. Your "point" is irrelevant.

How either something came from straight up nothing or how the earth has been here forever.

Neither has been claimed.

[Defeatist Elitist]

It's not a particularly good one. More evidence and experimentation is necessary to flesh out the abiogenetic explanations.

You're right, but at least it has something backing it, as opposed to nothing.

[Janissary]

I think what you're failing to realize Janissary is what you're trying to do, and how you're going about doing it.

You admitted you didn't want to be classified with the generic type of Christians on this board, and not be taken seriously just because of your religious beliefs. When if we didn't know you were Christian and didn't know your religious beliefs, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Not to mention you joined two days ago, and a majority of your posts are in topics talking about religion, where you bluntly stated you're Christian and your Christian beliefs. You basically said you don't want to be categorized like any of the other Christians so you do it by stating you're Christian instead of just keeping that bit of information a secret.

It's defeating the purpose...

This is true. I should probably have been a better member and more known before I delved into stuff like this, but I really like philosphical concepts.

I can direct you to another site I used to frequent til it dies if you are curious about whether or not I troll about religion. I was under the impression I knew more people around the forest than I do, so I made a mistake. Sorry.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Now, to all you guys who want big explanations to this, instead of explaining, I'll just tell you to Wiki them, then find more from there. Wikipedia isn't perfect of course, but it would be MUCH better if you had a basic understanding of these concepts before trying to argue about them. So yeah, get reading plox.

[Cynthia]

This is true. I should probably have been a better member and more known before I delved into stuff like this, but I really like philosphical concepts.

I can direct you to another site I used to frequent til it dies if you are curious about whether or not I troll about religion. I was under the impression I knew more people around the forest than I do, so I made a mistake. Sorry.

Well I'm only saying you created your own problem then complained about it...

[Agro]

Preachers. I'm Christian (Catholic, to be precise) and there is nothing that pisses me off more than a preacher. Not necessarily the doomsayer, but the guy who stand in front of the station and hands out brochures saying that I'm evil.

Honestly, some people.

[Steven Tyler]

On a lighter side, I'm a bit annoyed by black pastors in a more conservative, old-style church who breath heavily, and end their words with like this: "And the Lord say-dah! That men-dah! Should not hate-dah!"

[Loki Laufeyson]

Heh...

I was raised a Catholic and well, i dont really believe in most of that anymore..im more of a spiritual person (which means many things to many people)

Its the Christians that push their views on people that bother me..other than that i dont have any problem with it...what you believe is what you believe, whether it be God or science...

[canas is back]

And the sun revolves around the Earth.

they revolve around each other, the sun also revolves around the other plantes and satellites in this system, it's universal gravitation.

[Blacken]

they revolve around each other, the sun also revolves around the other plantes and satellites in this system, it's universal gravitation.

Excellent attempt at sounding smart. Too bad the gravitational force of sub-solar bodies is nearly unappreciable on a solar mass.

[canas is back]

Excellent attempt at sounding smart. Too bad the gravitational force of sub-solar bodies is nearly unappreciable on a solar mass.

I failed to mention that part, but I was never refuting that it was neligible, I was merely stating that they do in fact revolve around each other, due to gravity being universal.

[Original Alear]

My fault with his logic is he never really explained where this stuff came from, only how it got so diverse.

Well, it's not Darwin's responsibility as a biologist to explain the big bang or earth's formation. That's the job of like, astrophysicists or something. You can't say that because Darwin didn't explain these things, science is no good.

You can't point at a guy from the 1800s and criticize him for not explaining everything in science, you need to criticize scientific theory today. Whereas with people who hate religion, they can point at the bible and get at the core of Christian thought. The bible is where christianity is rooted and you can make a pretty good attack on most christian denominations by focusing on it.

If Bereshit is an untrue story of the creation of the world, christianity is wrong.

The problem, of course, is proving it wrong w/ 100% certainty is impossible. Simply because all our data proves the Earth is older than we think doesn't mean it is if there's really an infinite power that can do anything. He could have easily manipulated the data just to fuck with us.

Of course, that doesn't seem like something an all-powerful, all-loving, infinitely just god would do but we know from job that humans can't grasp god's justice. Simply because it seems cruel doesn't mean it is.

EDIT-Since other people have shared their views, I am entirely unspiritual and think that life isn't sacred.

Edited February 27, 2009 by SeverIan

[Rodykitty]

On a lighter side, I'm a bit annoyed by black pastors in a more conservative, old-style church who breath heavily, and end their words with like this: "And the Lord say-dah! That men-dah! Should not hate-dah!"

I don't see much wrong with this. Just a church culture.

Preachers. I'm Christian (Catholic, to be precise) and there is nothing that pisses me off more than a preacher. Not necessarily the doomsayer, but the guy who stand in front of the station and hands out brochures saying that I'm evil.

Honestly, some people.

Well, we humans are capable of evil, but then also realize we're capable of very good things.

If he's flat out calling everyone evil (which I honestly don't know), then he may not be fully competent in what he does. There are preachers out there that are competent, I'm sure.

I also want to say that a lot of the hypocrisy and corruption also gets too much attention. I hope we can start looking at Christian churches that do it right.

Its the Christians that push their views on people that bother me..

Let me ask people this, because I've been wondering for awhile.. How do Christians spread the good news of Jesus and not force their views on others?

Even if they aren't being forceful and are understanding, those they are speaking to may still feel like they are forcing their views on them.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Chainey

[Esau of Isaac]

To be fair, gravity in itself isn't exactly proven, it's really just a theory, even if it does make perfect sense.

Gravity is a fact; the theories and laws that encompass it are our means by which to explain it.

Giving the "Well they're only theories" spiel is akin to saying that we're only mildly sure the moon is not made of cheese. It's braindead at best.

The way I see things, there is no definite way to prove that gravity, evolution, or God are truth.

So then you're not educated on the processes of gravity or evolution.

There's no other excuse as to why you would state such a thing.

[Florete]

Gravity is a fact; the theories and laws that encompass it are our means by which to explain it.

Giving the "Well they're only theories" spiel is akin to saying that we're only mildly sure the moon is not made of cheese. It's braindead at best.

So then you're not educated on the processes of gravity or evolution.

There's no other excuse as to why you would state such a thing.

Thanks for addressing things that have already been addressed. <_<

[Original Alear]

On a lighter side, I'm a bit annoyed by black pastors in a more conservative, old-style church who breath heavily, and end their words with like this: "And the Lord say-dah! That men-dah! Should not hate-dah!"

I actually find their oratory more entertaining and interesting :) At least they get into it, even if I personally suspect they are dead wrong.

The best preacher ever is the fictional preacher in Joyce's Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man. As far as I'm concerned his images of hell are far more vivid and beautiful than those in Johnathan Edward's Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. Of course, I'm sure there's a great deal of tradition Joyce is drawing on in part III for those sermons, but the fact is that the famous American fire and brimstone preacher is probably pretty mediocre compared to some of the old world preachers.

Honestly I have very little experience with preachers since I have prolly been in a church service less than 20 times in my life (I'm jewish). So maybe all you christians think there are preachers today who are way better than good old Edwards.

Edited February 27, 2009 by SeverIan

[NoNameAtAll]

Since this was completely ignored I shall diverge into it deeper in saying: personal beliefs should be just that, personal.

I was tempted to make a tier list reference, but I refrained from doing so.

Anyway, I don't care. If one wishes to spout their beliefs, I won't stop that person. Just don't expect me to agree.

Just my two cents.

[Esau of Isaac]

Thanks for addressing things that have already been addressed. <_<

Clearly Blacken is a time traveler, that's all.

[Herr Wozzeck]

I also want to say that a lot of the hypocrisy and corruption also gets too much attention. I hope we can start looking at Christian churches that do it right.

This; there are quite a few churches I went around in my younger days (I'm a veteran of a Methodist church orchestra and I used to be a devout Catholic before high school tore down my visions of God.), and most of the ones I went to did do a good job of keeping up with their scriptures. I remember maybe one incident where a pastor was rude to my sister when she and I used to be involved in the church's music ministry (and after that, we were all 'fuck you, you're not seeing our asses again') and that's about all that I've encountered. But once high school rolled around, I got rather skeptical, to the point that I lost my faith in God by the time I graduated.

And as for my biggest problem with faith, how did it get to this point where the only things that everybody remembers are the corruption and the money? Televangelism, Fred Phelps, molestation, misinformed political activism, terrorism (at least in the case of radical Islam); how'd it all get to this?

[lolDeath]

I have many.

Raised into Christianity, too stupid to see beyond what you were told all of your life.

Buy into Christianity, you started to believe something with 0 proof as opposed to things with some extent of actual backing. Taking a pleasant fairy tale that helps ease the fear of death over accepting reality.

The fact that it makes no sense and people believe it is very important to me, it just shows how weak and desperate they are. Slapping "God works in mysterious ways" and "the devil caused it" on everything is easily the most pathetic thing I have seen in my entire life, you worship what would have knowingly caused all of your problems if you were right.

But like I said, it applies to all of you and everyone of any religion, really, so I naturally don't care as much now as I used to. I don't even bother trying to prove you wrong much, I mainly just discuss it when it ties into another issue like someone thinking that homosexuality is "evil" because their God told them so.

[Blacken]

Clearly Blacken is a time traveler, that's all.

outside ur light cones pwnin ur argumentz

[Steven Tyler]

I don't see much wrong with this. Just a church culture.

Well, we humans are capable of evil, but then also realize we're capable of very good things.

Eh, it's that I've spent all my teen years at a church with a white pastor as the Head Pastor (despite a good mix of black and white pastors within the church) and you get used to not hearing a black, old-style pastor that when you go back to that style, you find it annoying. You gotta get used to it again, the black pastor breathing hard, putting heavy endings with his words and such.

Seeing here, I guess most of ya lost faith in religion because a few assholes within the Church where being hard asses and forceful with their views. I wish I could kinda pity you guys, but then, I might get flame.