FE Pairings

[ReformBlade]

As I said before. Just because I prefer Ike/Elincia doesn't mean I can't see evidence for other pairings. I can see evidence for Geoffrey loving Elincia, can't I? I simply don't see Elincia loving him back, but loving Ike instead, is all.

What.

Elincia shouting his name 3 frickin times upon his arrival in 2-E, caring about him and his honor... SHE MARRIED HIM, FOR GOD'S SAKE! He's a rank and file soldier (granted he has perks, but still), and yet she MARRIED him. Nope, no love there, only 'pity' because he likes her, rite?

[Anacybele]

Is that all Soren feels? You're very willing to conjecture about any possible romantic hint between Ike and Elincia, but very quick to dismiss the possibility that these feelings could be in Ike and Soren's relationship.

I think that is all Soren feels, yes, seeing as he doesn't feel the same way about anyone else.

Certainly there's loyalty and trust there yeah. What I'm not seeing how and Ike and Elincia are true lovers forever and Soren and Ike are very clearly not.

And I still don't see how Soren and Ike clearly are and that it's completely impossible for Ike and Elincia to be in love.

Then why couldn't Boyd come along? Perhaps you might say because of Oscar and Rolf, but why couldn't they and the other GMs accompnay them as well? There isn't really a good answer for this, other than perhaps Ike feels more comofortable spedning his life with Soren than anyone else.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure that's too much of a crowd. The Greil Mercenaries are the top fighting force in Crimea, so why should they all leave? Ike leaving is one thing, but everyone? Yeah no. Also, Ranulf can go with Ike too. I guess this means Ike would rather spend his life with him if he's the canon choice.

The point is that neither of Elincia's endings mention Ike, both of Soren's do.

Yet only one of her endings mentions Geoffrey and both of Geoffrey's mentions her. That's another reason I think it's possible only Geoffrey was the real lover in this pairing.

It says "after stability returned" not "after Elincia gets married". This implies that Ike was just done with Tellius, anything relating to Elincia is pure conjecture and not very well supported (if Ike likes Elincia so much, why doesn't he hang the palace after he becomes a noble, after rescuing Lucia etc.? If he really liked her you think he would actually like to be around her. This requires some rubbish explanation of how all the nobles hated Ike or something.)

Perhaps Ike heard they were going to get married and left out of heartbreak, as I've stated. And maybe Ike wasn't able to stay a noble, even if he wanted to. Besides, Elincia really wanted him to stay, actually. Perhaps he loved Elincia enough to leave so she wouldn't have to deal with nobles quarreling about letting a mercenary stay a noble. I'm not saying they hate him, its his background. Ike's not of noble birth, so this could cause conflict about whether or not he should stay. Not to mention Geoffrey most likely wouldn't like the competition (both for Elincia AND fighting prowess). Ike could have sensed that as well.

As for Elincia marrying Geoffrey, couples in medieval times didn't always marry for love. The same could be in FE. Elincia could have only married Geoffrey because she would eventually need a husband and produce an heir if she remained on the throne and he really is her best choice if she can't have Ike. Geoffrey may have loved her all he wanted, but it's possible Elincia never truly returned it. And while nothing says they separated, nothing says they didn't either.

Also, I'm not saying anything in this post is fact. It's just what I believe and what I've theorized based on my research. I must say though, Cynthia, you've given me some ideas on how to revise my FE fic's seventh chapter. Thanks. :3

Edited May 13, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Narga_Rocks]

What.

Elincia shouting his name 3 frickin times upon his arrival in 2-E, caring about him and his honor... SHE MARRIED HIM, FOR GOD'S SAKE! He's a rank and file soldier (granted he has perks, but still), and yet she MARRIED him. Nope, no love there, only 'pity' because he likes her, rite?

You do realize that it is possible to believe that the designers were inconsistent or did something that doesn't work with the rest of the story.

I mean, if they had've made Elincia marry Rolf be a possible ending (without changing anything of the rest of the story) would you be supporting that pairing (and saying she loves Rolf more than Ike)? Hope not. It would be a dumb pairing and calling Intelligent systems on it would be fine. I really don't see why "they get married" is any kind of proof that she loves Geoffrey back. Or at least as much as she may love Ike.

[Anacybele]

That's exactly what I was trying to say, Narga. Couples don't always marry for love. Rumors went around in the nobility that Geoffrey and Elincia were sharing a secret romance as well. And even if it wasn't true, it could have influenced Elincia's decision to marry him. Perhaps Renning saw it fit for them to be together and arranged the wedding. Elincia would have the power to turn it down, but knowing her, she wouldn't dare do that, especially since like I said, Geoffrey's her best choice for a husband at the time since Ike is gone.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Narga x Eternal Bond forever :D

I really don't see why "they get married" is any kind of proof that she loves Geoffrey back. Or at least as much as she may love Ike.

If you read the FE9 support conversations of Elincia and Geoffrey, you'll see that there's no doubt that she does love Geoffrey. Though it may not be your intention, by stating the bolded, you're implying that her marriage with Geoffrey is the same or at least extremely similar to Hardin and Nina's and it isn't.

Furthermore, Elincia apparently cares so much about Geoffrey that she hastily considered taking away his Knighthood simply to keep him alive. Ike and Elincia's support conversation look more like she just admires and considers him a good friend.

Honestly, you 2 are just picking at the smallest details that hint at possibilities while dismissing what's already there.

[Anacybele]

I've seen and actually did their support convos instead of Ike and Elincia's. It seemed like Geoffrey might have been smitten with her, but Elincia talked to him as if he were just another retainer. Honestly. :/

Now Elincia giggled at and actually flirted with Ike in actual SCENES of the game. She loved him at least in PoR. The two also spent a lot of alone time together. Who sweetly held hands with Elincia at the end of PoR? And who saved the life of her milk sister in RD? Who DIDN'T almost fuck up and fall for a trap set by Ludveck? Who fought to protect her when she was being attacked by senator Valtome while Geoffrey just sat beside her and didn't fight at all? (seriously, all Geoffrey and his knights do is surround her. That's nice and all, but also a bit lazy since I was the one who did all the fighting. Even if the knights weren't there, Ike and company could have taken care of the whole thing themselves, I bet you) And who isn't a lame pansy? Who agreed to accompany Elincia home once the conflicts ended? And whose name does Elincia cry out (and with the words "my noble" right before it no less) in her death quote in part 4 endgame of RD? That's right, Ike.

Also, I swear, the first time I played RD, I figured Ludveck set a trap for Geoffrey. Geoffrey really should have been able to anticipate such a predictable move. He seemed cool at first, but now I think he's just lame and a pansy.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[-Cynthia-]

I've seen and actually did their support convos instead of Ike and Elincia's. It seemed like Geoffrey might have been smitten with her, but Elincia talked to him as if he were just another retainer. Honestly. :/

She wants to take away his knighthood (something very important to Geoffrey) so that he doesn't get hurt. That's not how one normally treats their retainers.

Now Elincia giggled at and actually flirted with Ike in actual SCENES of the game. She loved him at least in PoR.

The flirting is very debatable, and if laughter= love, then Makalov is in love with Bastian (he says ha ha an lot more in their support convo than Elincia laughs in hers).

The two also spent a lot of alone time together. Who sweetly held hands with Elincia at the end of PoR?

You can't really say the first one definitively, we don't really know how much time characters actually spent together. The second part could very easily just be two friends supporting each other, she's nervous so Ike is there to give her a helping hand. Friends hold hands (just as you pointed out with Soren, hugs don't necessarily = romance either).

And who saved the life of her milk sister in RD?

The entire Greil Mercenaries, at the request of Bastian. It's not as if Ike stormed off and was like "OMG it's Elincia's sister we must save her!"

Who DIDN'T almost fuck up and fall for a trap set by Ludveck?

That just means that the creators decided to make Ike more perfect than Geoffrey, not adding to ikexElincia or detracting from GeoffreyxElincia in any way.

Who fought to protect her when she was being attacked by senator Valtome while Geoffrey just sat beside her and didn't fight at all? (seriously, all Geoffrey and his knights do is surround her. That's nice and all, but also a bit lazy since I was the one who did all the fighting.

This is a gameplay mechanic, not actually signaling anything about relationships.

Even if the knights weren't there, Ike and company could have taken care of the whole thing themselves, I bet you) And who isn't a lame pansy?

Your opinion that Ike's more awesome really has nothing to do with how valid IkexElincia is.

Who agreed to accompany Elincia home once the conflicts ended?

Like I said before Elincia was also accompanied by all the GMs, all the CRK, Neph/Brom/Heather/Calill. Them going home together isn't ver special, since they're both from Crimea. That line is meant to indicate that their journeys are over, not anything about their relationship. Plus, only the CRKs, Lucia, and Bastian actually follow Elincia home, to the palace, whiel Ike goes off to the GM headquarters.

And whose name does Elincia cry out (and with the words "my noble" right before it no less) in her death quote in part 4 endgame of RD? That's right, Ike.

That's because Ike is guaranteed to be in the tower. It doesn't make sense to call out Geoffrey's name when he's outside fighting disciples.

Also, I swear, the first time I played RD, I figured Ludveck set a trap for Geoffrey. Geoffrey really should have been able to anticipate such a predictable move. He seemed cool at first, but now I think he's just lame and a pansy.

Geoffrey should have been a Gary Stu like Ike and thus doesn't deserve Elincia?

Edited May 13, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Anacybele]

She wants to take away his knighthood (something very important to Geoffrey) so that he doesn't get hurt. That's not how one normally treats their retainers.

Knowing Elincia, I bet you she would have done the same to Ike had he been in Geoffrey's place.

The flirting is very debatable, and if laughter= love, then Makalov is in love with Bastian (he says ha ha an lot more in their support convo than Elincia laughs in hers).

Going haha isn't the same as going hee hee. Ha ha is usually a casual thing. Giggling can be flirtatious, normally by girls.

You can't really say the first one definitively, we don't really know how much time characters actually spent together. The second part could very easily just be two friends supporting each other, she's nervous so Ike is there to give her a helping hand. Friends hold hands (just as you pointed out with Soren, hugs don't necessarily = romance either).

Yes, hugging doesn't equal love. But holding hands is another story. It CAN indicate love sometimes.

The entire Greil Mercenaries, at the request of Bastian. It's not as if Ike stormed off and was like "OMG it's Elincia's sister we must save her!

So you're saying had Bastian not asked them and they'd known about it, Ike would have just shrugged it off and done nothing? Yeah, I highly doubt that. It's not Ike.

That just means that the creators decided to make Ike more perfect than Geoffrey, not adding to ikexElincia or detracting from GeoffreyxElincia in any way.

I'm saying Geoffrey doesn't live up to the expectations he should. I know he only took command after Renning vanished, but if HE was the one to take command at all, I'd think he was at least deputy commander and had better experience.

This is a gameplay mechanic, not actually signaling anything about relationships.

I suppose, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway.

Your opinion that Ike's more awesome really has nothing to do with how valid IkexElincia is.

I know, I'm only saying I'm disappointed IS would pair Elincia with a pansy than a truly brave hero.

Like I said before Elincia was also accompanied by all the GMs, all the CRK, Neph/Brom/Heather/Calill. Them going home together isn't ver special, since they're both from Crimea. That line is meant to indicate that their journeys are over, not anything about their relationship. Plus, only the CRKs, Lucia, and Bastian actually follow Elincia home, to the palace, whiel Ike goes off to the GM headquarters.

Well yeah the Greil Mercenaries and Royal Knights went along, but Ike and Elincia actually state in dialogue that they will return home together and the way they were saying it made me get the impression that Elincia stood by Ike's side the whole trip instead of Geoffrey's.

That's because Ike is guaranteed to be in the tower. It doesn't make sense to call out Geoffrey's name when he's outside fighting disciples.

Is Elincia's death quote the same if you bring Geoffrey there? If it is, then I still say its valid evidence. Because if she loved Geoffrey, I'd think IS would change her death quote if he was present. Also, what about the "my noble" part? That makes it sound a lot like Elincia wants Ike to be hers.

Geoffrey should have been a Gary Stu like Ike and thus doesn't deserve Elincia?

Ike's not a Gary Stu. He has flaws and weaknesses. Food can be a weakness actually since Ike is shown to love eating (especially meat). In fact, I brought out that weakness in my fanfic by having Ike fall victim to poison after eating. Ike's blunt manner can also make him seem uncaring and that could turn people away. Not everyone likes him either (ie Shinon, Micaiah, etc.). I'd also say Ike rather lacks a sense of humor (though some of the things he says makes me laugh, I'll admit). Still, his big main flaw/weakness has to be the food thing. And that's one of the characteristics that makes me like him so much.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Is Elincia's death quote the same if you bring Geoffrey there? If it is, then I still say its valid evidence. Because if she loved Geoffrey, I'd think IS would change her death quote if he was present. Also, what about the "my noble" part? That makes it sound a lot like Elincia wants Ike to be hers.

I believe so. But I do also think that it's laziness on IS' part and probably assumed the player has no plans on deploying Geoffrey for the final chapter seeing as there's easily 10 units that are better than him in almost every aspect. I guess it' just one of those things we'll never know.

And while we're at this whole xElincia thing...Why isn't Tibarn a part of this argument? Tibarn has interests in her too.

[Chalis]

Soren: Then I finally found you.

Ike: But I'd...

Soren: Yes. You'd forgotten that day in Gallia. But I didn't care. My only wish

was to see you again. I just wanted to see the only boy who had held out a

warm hand when I had nothing.

Ike: Soren... Don't cry.

Soren: Don't cry? What? I'm not crying...

Ike: Soren, you're smart, but you're no good when it comes to your emotions.

Come over here.

Soren: D-don't treat me like I'm a child! I'm not that--

Ike: Come on.

Soren: Shut up! Shut up...

This is fanfiction, you guys. There's no way this scene was actually in Radiant Dawn.

I mean it. "I wanted to see you again." is a declaration of love.

[Anacybele]

How so? I don't see how wanting to see someone means you love them.

[ReformBlade]

You do realize that it is possible to believe that the designers were inconsistent or did something that doesn't work with the rest of the story.

I mean, if they had've made Elincia marry Rolf be a possible ending (without changing anything of the rest of the story) would you be supporting that pairing (and saying she loves Rolf more than Ike)? Hope not. It would be a dumb pairing and calling Intelligent systems on it would be fine. I really don't see why "they get married" is any kind of proof that she loves Geoffrey back. Or at least as much as she may love Ike.

You're very right. However, FE isn't known for thinking way out of the box in the games. One needs only to look at the various Archetypes they constantly reuse in every game. Is it such a stretch to think they'd go for the typical medieval Knight in Shining Armor getting the Princess? Marriage between 2 people in such a setting is pretty much, well... They're both in love. Do you honestly believe for a second that Elincia would've married the man if she didn't love him? If nothing else, look at it this way: Would Geoffrey have married Elincia if he knew it wouldn't have made her happy? He always wanted what was best for her, and I don't believe for a millisecond that he would have married her if he knew it would cause a rift between her and someone else she really liked. He may be boring, but he's not retarded.

[Anacybele]

If Elincia wasn't queen, then I'd agree with you, SlaveBlade. She's the last one in her bloodline besides Renning, and she would need to produce an heir to ensure that the royal bloodline continues. Sure, she could just remain single and let Renning take over when she was done, but by the time she dies, he'd probably be dead too (or at least be too old to have a child of his own), and that halts the bloodline completely.

Geoffrey would want what's best for Elincia, yes. If Ike loved her, then so would he. Perhaps Ike thought not staying a noble or her being married to a knight rather than a mercenary would have been best for her, no? And perhaps Geoffrey doesn't know of anything between Ike and Elincia. How can he support a relationship he doesn't know about?

Edited May 13, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

How so? I don't see how wanting to see someone means you love them.

May not necessarily mean love but remember that this is coming from Soren, who literally hates everyone else. Although I will admit it's mainly because of Ike's random act of kindness that saved his life so he does have to feel somewhat indebted/emotionally attached.

If Elincia wasn't queen, then I'd agree with you, SlaveBlade. She's the last one in her bloodline besides Renning, and she would need to produce an heir to ensure that the royal bloodline continues. Sure, she could just remain single and let Renning take over when she was done, but by the time she dies, he'd probably be dead too (or at least be too old to have a child of his own), and that halts the bloodline completely.

I don't think Elincia cares about preserving the bloodline tbh.

[-Cynthia-]

Knowing Elincia, I bet you she would have done the same to Ike had he been in Geoffrey's place.

She could call off his mercenary duties if she were that concerned about him getting hurt. She doesn't.

Yes, hugging doesn't equal love. But holding hands is another story. It CAN indicate love sometimes.

So can hugging!

So you're saying had Bastian not asked them and they'd known about it, Ike would have just shrugged it off and done nothing? Yeah, I highly doubt that. It's not Ike.

Ike also would have saved...idk Tormod or whoever, someone who didn't matter to Elincia at all. My point was that saving Lucia has absolutely nothing to doth with Ike x Elincia.

I know, I'm only saying I'm disappointed IS would pair Elincia with a pansy than a truly brave hero.

Yes, cowardly Geoffrey going into mortal danger to stop Ludveck, then doubling back to save Elincia, while Ike the true hero does absolutely nothing until after the battle is actually ove.

There are some valid complaints about Geoffrey, but "pansy" is a highly inaccurate term.

Well yeah the Greil Mercenaries and Royal Knights went along, but Ike and Elincia actually state in dialogue that they will return home together and the way they were saying it made me get the impression that Elincia stood by Ike's side the whole trip instead of Geoffrey's.

Wow this totally isn't another example of not actual evidence, but you choosing to interpret everything in the entire game as Ike and Elincia's undying love. Of course they're traveling together to some extent, they're friends who know each other and are going to the same place from the same place. It doesn't suggest anything else!

Is Elincia's death quote the same if you bring Geoffrey there? If it is, then I still say its valid evidence. Because if she loved Geoffrey, I'd think IS would change her death quote if he was present. Also, what about the "my noble" part? That makes it sound a lot like Elincia wants Ike to be hers.

I'm going to chalk that up to IS being lazy. No one has any special death quotes with anyone other than Ike or Micaiah in 4-E.

Caling him noble means she's in love with him? How? You're making a ridiculous list of assumptions yet again.

Ike's not a Gary Stu. He has flaws and weaknesses. Food can be a weakness actually since Ike is shown to love eating (especially meat). In fact, I brought out that weakness in my fanfic by having Ike fall victim to poison after eating. Ike's blunt manner can also make him seem uncaring and that could turn people away. Not everyone likes him either (ie Shinon, Micaiah, etc.). I'd also say Ike rather lacks a sense of humor (though some of the things he says makes me laugh, I'll admit). Still, his big main flaw/weakness has to be the food thing. And that's one of the characteristics that makes me like him so much.

Wow, Ike likes meat, what a gaping character flaw! No, it's not, that's less of a flaw than Bella Swan being clumsy. Face it, everyone and their mother loves Ike (except Micky who gets over it, and Shinon who's portayed as a douchebag), he wields sacred swords, and raises armies, almost never loses, kills goddesses etc. etc.

Ike's "everyone loves him" syndrome also makes any theories about Elincia not being with Ike for political reasons absolutely ludicrous. They made him a noble, which means that he has a higher political position than Geoffrey.

Edited May 13, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[ReformBlade]

If Elincia wasn't queen, then I'd agree with you, SlaveBlade. She's the last one in her bloodline besides Renning, and she would need to produce an heir to ensure that the royal bloodline continues. Sure, she could just remain single and let Renning take over when she was done, but by the time she dies, he'd probably be dead too (or at least be too old to have a child of his own), and that halts the bloodline completely.

Geoffrey would want what's best for Elincia, yes. If Ike loved her, then so would he. Perhaps Ike thought not staying a noble or her being married to a knight rather than a mercenary would have been best for her, no? And perhaps Geoffrey doesn't know of anything between Ike and Elincia. How can he support a relationship he doesn't know about?

The odds of Geoffrey, Commander of the Royal Knights and Brother to Lucia, a spy, not knowing of Elincia becoming smitten? Pardon my French, but that's fucking unlikely. Again, he's boring, but not retarded as you seem to keep imagining. And you hit a nail on the head with a comment you made, by accident. We don't KNOW what Ike is thinking. He gives no implication that he is romantic with Elincia. Everything he does for her is anything he'd do for anybody else who would be in that situation. Geoffrey I'm sure is a similar case, and yet... he CLEARLY shows extra special attention to the Queen, which is totally understandable.

But I'm getting off-topic here. You are making far too many assumptions and fantasies about this whole deal. Yes, there WAS something between Ike and Elincia in the first one, however, as is evident by RD, it died off, and yet Elincia is still happy and going strong, and so is Ike.

[Anacybele]

She could call off his mercenary duties if she were that concerned about him getting hurt. She doesn't.

She doesn't because Ike is her only hope. Dur. She can't tell everyone to lay off.

So can hugging!

Not as much as holding hands can.

Ike also would have saved...idk Tormod or whoever, someone who didn't matter to Elincia at all. My point was that saving Lucia has absolutely nothing to doth with Ike x Elincia.

Still shows he at least cares about her though.

Yes, cowardly Geoffrey going into mortal danger to stop Ludveck, then doubling back to save Elincia, while Ike the true hero does absolutely nothing until after the battle is actually ove.

There are some valid complaints about Geoffrey, but "pansy" is a highly inaccurate term.

I didn't mean Geoffrey was a coward. Sorry, that was bad wording. I meant that he's not as heroic.

Wow this totally isn't another example of not actual evidence, but you choosing to interpret everything in the entire game as Ike and Elincia's undying love. Of course they're traveling together to some extent, they're friends who know each other and are going to the same place from the same place. It doesn't suggest anything else!

So Elincia choosing to walk back with Ike instead of Geoffrey doesn't indicate she may love Ike. I fail to see how this makes sense.

Caling him noble means she's in love with him? How? You're making a ridiculous list of assumptions yet again.

You're misunderstanding me again. I'm referring to the "my" part, not so much the "noble" part. Elincia is saying "my" which means she's referring to Ike as her own.

Wow, Ike likes meat, what a gaping character flaw! No, it's not, that's less of a flaw than Bella Swan being clumsy. Face it, everyone and their mother loves Ike (except Micky who gets over it, and Shinon who's portayed as a douchebag), he wields sacred swords, and raises armies, almost never loses, kills goddesses etc. etc.

You totally missed my point here, I see, so there's no use trying to talk about it anymore.

Ike's "everyone loves him" syndrome also makes any theories about Elincia not being with Ike for political reasons absolutely ludicrous. They made him a noble, which means that he has a higher political position than Geoffrey.

BUT IKE IS NOT OF NOBLE BIRTH. GEOFFREY IS. How many times must I repeat this? Also, Ike is not a noble anymore anyway, so he is no longer in a higher political position.

But I'm getting off-topic here. You are making far too many assumptions and fantasies about this whole deal. Yes, there WAS something between Ike and Elincia in the first one, however, as is evident by RD, it died off, and yet Elincia is still happy and going strong, and so is Ike.

Exactly how are my "assumptions" "fantasies" when I've done research on this? I wasn't looking for Ike/Elincia because I like the pairing. I was looking for evidence to support my hidden romance theory and I found some whether you all like it or not. Also, you all are just assuming fantasies as well by saying Ike and Elincia's relationship simply died off. We don't know that that happened for sure. I don't know if my theory is correct either, similarly.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Narga_Rocks]

I believe so. But I do also think that it's laziness on IS' part and probably assumed the player has no plans on deploying Geoffrey for the final chapter seeing as there's easily 10 units that are better than him in almost every aspect. I guess it' just one of those things we'll never know.

And it was laziness on their part to not include the option for Ike x Elincia to get a special ending if they had an A support. What's your point?

Are there any quotes where someone mentions a name of a unit that doesn't have to be there? Maybe not in this game, but I know it does in other Fire Emblem games. Thany in fe6 says something about Tate (I think) whether she is present or not. I think she'll even say it the same way before Tate has been introduced, though I could be wrong on that one. The lack of Geoffrey's presence means nothing.

Well, there was my "Forgetful Elincia" theory, which explains why her deathquote would be about Ike when he's the only one present. However, Geoffrey can go to the tower. They made plenty of unique deathquotes for many different parts of the game. While they were lazy about pairings and some other things, they didn't hold back on multiple deathquotes. Elincia lacking something special for when Geoffrey is present says something about who she prefers when both are nearby.

Geoffrey is just lucky that for Elincia, out of sight is out of mind when Ike's not around otherwise he'd never have gotten her to wed him.

And it's not the "noble" part, Cynthia, it's the "my" part. MY Ike. Adding "noble" neither adds nor detracts from that statement. It's all about the possessive nature of the phrase. Like EB said. I hate getting Ninja'd, though.

[Anacybele]

Thank you, Narga. I'm always glad to have you backing me up. Your forgetful Elincia theory sounds very possible too, actually.

[-Cynthia-]

Still shows he at least cares about her though.

Ike cares about a lot of people, but that doesn't mean I'm shipping Ikex Tormod.

So Elincia choosing to walk back with Ike instead of Geoffrey doesn't indicate she may love Ike. I fail to see how this makes sense.

How is she not walking back with Geoffrey!? Obviously being commander of the knights means he's going back to the royal palace in Crimea, Elincia is going back to the royal palace in Crimea. They're walking together, for more of the distance than Ike and Elincia are.

You totally missed my point here, I see, so there's no use trying to talk about it anymore.

Your point was that Ike isn't a Gary Stu because he likes meat, which is apparently a character flaw. It was a poorly thought out point.

BUT IKE IS NOT OF NOBLE BIRTH. GEOFFREY IS. How many times must I repeat this? Also, Ike is not a noble anymore anyway, so he is no longer in a higher political position.

When is it ever mentioned that noble birth is important in determining a marriage partner in Tellius? Also, noble or not, Ike is the hero of Crimea at this point. For any noble to complain would seem incredibly petty. (btw if they actually loved each other, the whining of a few nobles shouldn't matter. They probably complained about Geoffrey too). Ike is like George Washington. Who the hell is going to tell George Washington he can't marry somebody? Nobody, that's who.

Exactly how are my "assumptions" "fantasies" when I've done research on this? I wasn't looking for Ike/Elincia because I like the pairing. I was looking for evidence to support my hidden romance theory and I found some whether you all like it or not.

The fact that you had a "hidden romance theory" to begin with suggests some heavy bias. FE romances are not subtle or hidden. They are sledgehammers of obvious (explictly stated in paired endings).

Also, you all are just assuming fantasies as well by saying Ike and Elincia's relationship simply died off. We don't know that that happened for sure. I don't know if my theory is correct either, similarly.

How did they have a relationship in the first place? It isn't stated. Also, evidence supports their relationship dying off. Ike leaves the court, returns for a very short time to rescue Lucia, then leaves again. Ike and Elincia are not distraught to be leaving other. Elincia marrying another man in the ending is the real kicker though (and no possible ending for Ike).

Yes, it is theoretically possible that Ike and Elincia are secret lovers. It's also possible that Ike is carrying Ashnard's demon baby, that doesn't make it likely.

@Narga By that logic, Haar/Jill, Mist/Boyd, Makalov/Astrid, Naesala/Leanne, Lucia/Bastian are all invalidated by the criteria that you must call out your paired support partner's name during 4-E. Everyone except Sothe/Micaiah either use a standard death quote or call out Ike's name during 4-E, so Elincia doing it means just about nothing. The my part is a little different I guess, but I really think that's how she refers to some people.

[Narga_Rocks]

@Narga By that logic, Haar/Jill, Mist/Boyd, Makalov/Astrid, Naesala/Leanne, Lucia/Bastian are all invalidated by the criteria that you must call out your paired support partner's name during 4-E. Everyone except Sothe/Micaiah either use a standard death quote or call out Ike's name during 4-E, so Elincia doing it means just about nothing. The my part is a little different I guess, but I really think that's how she refers to some people.

The rest of them don't call out Ike's name, though, do they? (Mist calling her brother's name doesn't count, and anyone else is responding to him saying something and don't use a possessive term, anyway) And does she ever call anybody else (including Geoffrey) "my". Or use "mine"? I don't think so. You are accusing Eternal Bond of coming up with stuff out of nowhere to support her theories (though I don't think she is, or at least not without cause) but what about your theory?

Ranulf in 4-2 and 4-5 I think comes the closest to calling out Ike's name in a similar way. Well, him and soren, but Ike is like his only friend. Having a best friend of the same gender doesn't make him/her your gay lover.

Ranulf: King Tibarn... It now falls upon you... Please tell Ike I said...th-thank you.

Soren: Ike... Please live... Even if all the cities burn, and the seas swallow Tellius... You mustn't die... Not you...

Basically, the only people calling out Ike's name when they die are Elincia, Ranulf, soren. And two of them have paired endings. hmm. (And yes, I'm aware that Elincia is responding to Ike in the tower, but saying "my" makes it mean more. Plus there is still 3-10 to think about.)

Actually, there's an interesting thing with Elincia. Geoffrey is right there in 2-E and guess what a dying Elincia says?

Elincia: Father... Please forgive me! I have failed...as queen...

Of course, the pansy says "what's the point of living without you" but we already knew that he was gaga over Elincia. Calill points it out in fe9 in a support convo. Geoffrey is right there and to whom does Elincia call out? Her father.

What about in 3-10 when Ike and Geoffrey are right there?

Elincia: Sir Ike... Please... Look after Crimea.

Now, maybe that's just because she knows Geoffrey is incompetent and wants to put a real man in charge, but I suggest that Ike and Crimea being her last thoughts has more meaning that just that. Ike is more important to her than Geoffrey. Elincia has only ever called out on her own (unprovoked by someone saying something to her as she dies) her father, mother, uncle, and Ike. Well, them and Crimea. The 5 people/things she loves the most, I suppose.

Elincia and Geoffrey don't even say anything to each other in 4-5, though I'll grant that Geoffrey isn't forced there. On the other hand, Reyson isn't forced in 4-5, either, but he has a special death quote with Tibarn. Hmm...

And yes, this is ALL Radiant Dawn. I don't want to pull stuff from PoR because you'll just say "well they grew out of it in 3 years".

Edited May 13, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anacybele]

Excellent points, Narga. That's some of the evidence I used to back up my hidden romance theory. And romances are technically always hidden in FE games. How often do we see characters specifically tell other characters they love them, plan marriages, etc? Like almost never. Heck, the rumors going around in the nobles suggested a SECRET romance between Geoffrey and Elincia (which is still possibly true, I won't deny it, no matter how much I wish it to be false).

Also, I only began to really like the Ike/Elincia pairing the first time I completed PoR and before I knew Geoffrey and Elincia had a paired ending in RD. I wasn't specifically a heavy supporter of Ike/Elincia until I played RD when I noticed the close relationship they had in PoR just up and vanished. Like it never took place. And that's where I got the hidden romance theory idea. After that, I replayed both games to find some evidence to support it. And I found plenty. That's why I believe it to be very possible Ike and Elincia were secretly in love the whole time.

EDIT: You know, I need to write an essay or something on this and put it on the website I was making and still need to finish.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Fia]

Yes, hugging doesn't equal love. But holding hands is another story. It CAN indicate love sometimes.

So can hugging!

Not as much as holding hands can.

...

Oh dear Lord... have mercy on me.

orz

[ReformBlade]

Excellent points, Narga. That's some of the evidence I used to back up my hidden romance theory. And romances are technically always hidden in FE games. How often do we see characters specifically tell other characters they love them, plan marriages, etc? Like almost never. Heck, the rumors going around in the nobles suggested a SECRET romance between Geoffrey and Elincia (which is still possibly true, I won't deny it, no matter how much I wish it to be false).

Also, I only began to really like the Ike/Elincia pairing the first time I completed PoR and before I knew Geoffrey and Elincia had a paired ending in RD. I wasn't specifically a heavy supporter of Ike/Elincia until I played RD when I noticed the close relationship they had in PoR just up and vanished. Like it never took place. And that's where I got the hidden romance theory idea. After that, I replayed both games to find some evidence to support it. And I found plenty. That's why I believe it to be very possible Ike and Elincia were secretly in love the whole time.

EDIT: You know, I need to write an essay or something on this and put it on the website I was making and still need to finish.

I'd just like to say a few thing about this whole 'secretly in love' business.

Is Ike really a guy to hold a secret crush like that? In almost every scene, he's blunter than a frickin sledgehammer. I mean hell, he yelled right at Sanaki's face despite the obviously bad repercussions. This alone (His bluntness) pretty much negates any secret feelings he has.

I would also like to say this: I do believe Ike would care more for his best friend than a Princess who might have had a schoolgirl crush on him. Bros before hos and all of that Jazz (Sorry Elincia, great unit but the phrase fits).

[Anacybele]

Fia: ...Okay.

SlaveBlade: We don't know, as we're not ever told if he does and we really don't have a confirmed idea of how Ike acts when he's in love. Which means I'm free to fill in the absent details based on the evidence I've gathered.