FE Pairings

[Narga_Rocks]

You're reading waaay too into these things... Why can't people just take things at face value, something this game does clearly?

How do you justify that, though? You ask me to take it at face value. What, should I be ignoring the circumstances that may have led her to say these things? Take everything out of context? That seems to be the only way to provide evidence that Elincia loves Geoffrey so much: ignore the circumstances. If taking something at face value means to ignore everything relevant, then no I'm not going to take it at face value.

And as for the thing with 3-10, it's both death quotes. She clearly doesn't think Geoffrey is remotely capable of taking care of Crimea otherwise when she dies she should be asking him to take care of the place. And when Ike is dying she doesn't want him leaving her. "Don't leave me". Now, sure, even if she didn't love him she wouldn't want him dying, but you'd think the quote would be something different, then, rather than "don't leave me". If I'm supposed to be taking things at "face value", then why can't you see that "Don't leave me" illustrates that she cares for Ike beyond simple respect/friendship? When I try to take that line at "face value", it doesn't say "just friends" to me.

[-Cynthia-]

Elincia taks about Ike taking care of Crimea because he's a hero, and she figures without their queen the people need a strong leadership figure. Obviously she also finds Geoffrey capable of taking care of Crimea, she leaves him in control after she arrives in Daein (end of Part 3).

Once again, you're choosing to interpret everything Ike and Elincia say to each other in a romantic context. Here are some other death quotes:

Micaiah: Ahh... I...can't... make it... Sothe...

Nolan: Wait, Micaiah! Don't let go... We need you... I need you! Why did this have to happen?!

I need you is even stronger than don't leave me. Micaiah and Nolan ae a romantic pair?

There are tons of other death quotes with don't leave! I need you! Don't die! This can't be happening etc.! Elincia's quote is pretty generic.

[ReformBlade]

How do you justify that, though? You ask me to take it at face value. What, should I be ignoring the circumstances that may have led her to say these things? Take everything out of context? That seems to be the only way to provide evidence that Elincia loves Geoffrey so much: ignore the circumstances. If taking something at face value means to ignore everything relevant, then no I'm not going to take it at face value.

Good. God... I... What?

Elincia married Geoffrey. The end. I'm sure she likes Ike, but she LOVES Geoffrey, it's made quite clear due to the fact that she married him. She's not a weak little bitch like she was in PoR, this was clearly done on her part as well. If she really wanted to go with Ike, why didn't she? If Renning is so damn capable, why didn't she just frickin go? Your assumptions have no grounds to them!

[Anacybele]

Kieranx Marcia is definitely plausible. They supported in PoR, and then Marcia stayed with the CRKS, so they could have spent a lot of time together. Plus, neither of them really have very valid other pairings (Marcia has Rolf I guess, and Kieran is rather...obsessed with Oscar). They didn't get any screen time together in RD, but a lot of the returning characetrs didn't.

Except Rolf is much too young, so that just leaves Kieran. :P

As for the death quote thing, Nolan is the leader of the Dawn Brigade, so I can see why he'd say "I need you." Simple as that. :/

[Chalis]

Except Rolf is much too young, so that just leaves Kieran. :P

*unleashes pure rage*

That's what makes the pairing interesting. :>

Keiran isn't the only viable option, there's also Tanith and Gaytree. I prefer Sigrun x Tanith though.

[ReformBlade]

Except Rolf is much too young, so that just leaves Kieran. :P

As for the death quote thing, Nolan is the leader of the Dawn Brigade, so I can see why he'd say "I need you." Simple as that. :/

Nolan isn't the leader of the DB. He USED to be, but Micaiah Mary Sued her way into getting what she wanted.

[-Cynthia-]

*unleashes pure rage*

That's what makes the pairing interesting. :>

Keiran isn't the only viable option, there's also Tanith and Gaytree. I prefer Sigrun x Tanith though.

Gatrie's ending specifically states that he finds many women, but no love. Except tree in skirt of course.

I guess there's Manith.

Elincia doesn't want Ike to leave because it would be bad for Tellius. See how easy it is to explain death quotes? They are very poor evidence.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Nolan isn't the leader of the DB. He USED to be, but Micaiah Mary Sued her way into getting what she wanted.

On a srs standpoint, he technically still is leader of the DB the entire game.

[Anacybele]

Elincia doesn't want Ike to leave because it would be bad for Tellius. See how easy it is to explain death quotes? They are very poor evidence.

And this may be true. However, there are a number of ways we can interpret the same kind of dialogue quote. Narga and I simply interpreted it differently than you. It's not that it's poor evidence, it's that it can have more than one possible meaning, so there's really no way to find out for sure exactly what they're supposed to mean (unless anyone has some way of contacting IS, of course, which I doubt).

[ReformBlade]

On a srs standpoint, he technically still is leader of the DB the entire game.

In name only, though... I guess that IS 'technically'.

[Cresneta]

I doubt what I have to say is going to change anyone's mind, but I just want to get this off my chest - so if you just want to ignore this and continue discussing other pairings, feel free.

The more I think about the "forgetful Elincia" theory, the less I like it - especially if you mean it as she totally forgot about Ike who she truly loved, and jumped at the chance to marry Geoffrey just because he asked her when Ike wasn't around. It seems to me, that if she really loved Ike, that she wouldn't forget him so easily, and that if she can forget him just because another pretty blue-haired guy is present while he isn't, then she doesn't deserve either Ike or Geoffrey since her love is obviously shallow. From what I've seen, heard, and to a lesser extent experienced (I have yet to find lasting romantic love myself, but what I've felt is in line with what I'm about to say), when a person is in love with someone they spend a lot of time thinking about the person that they love. If the person isn't trying to hide their feelings, and if they are not introverted, then they also spend a lot of time talking about the person that they love. Even an introvert will spend a significant amount of time talking about the person that they are in love with, but this usually is only done to a trusted friend or is written in a diary. All this time spent thinking, and speaking about the person's object of affection is typically done when the other person is not present (although it can obviously be done when they're present too, but it's not quite the same thing if you know what I mean).

If Elincia can just forget Ike when he's not around, then she obviously isn't spending much time thinking and talking about him - this indicates to me that her love for him isn't very strong and that she lacks commitment and devotion to Ike. As the great hero in the story, Ike deserves someone who is really in love with him and who won't just drop him for some other blue-haired pretty boy as soon as he's outside of Elincia's line of sight. The reason why I say she also isn't deserving of Geoffrey is because, although he is no Ike in terms of prowess and fame, Geoffrey is VERY loyal to Elincia and I can't see him doing anything to hurt her. Especially not forgetting her just because another pretty woman made a pass at him. Geoffrey at least deserves loyalty and love in return for his loyalty and love in a relationship.

If Elincia is really that forgetful, then she should be forgetting about a lot of lesser things than who the guy that she loves the most is completely - this is especially true if you're arguing that Ike is her one true love. If she was really this forgetful, then Luckveck's decision to convince Elincia to step down becomes much more legitimate and should've taken center stage as his reason for dethroning her instead of taking backstage to Elincia being too softhearted to be able to make the hard decisions that a ruler must make. Ludveck exploited Elincia's trusting and idealistic nature, not her forgetful nature after all. If she really is that forgetful, she shouldn't be able to run her court and frankly, should not be ruling.

To be honest, I don't believe Elincia is anywhere near forgetful enough to just forget than man that she loves the most just because another attractive guy is around, and I actually see claiming her to be that forgetful as an insult to her character. As I see it, she's demonstrated her ability to think too much in the games for me to believe she's dumb enough to forget who she loves without contracting amnesia or the like. After all, she had the self-control and presence of mind to not yell at the Apostle in PoR unlike Ike who just blundered on into it. She was also smart enough to not reveal who she really was in the prologue of part 2 in RD to the people who were trying to capture Leanne. Elincia is thoughtful, not impulsive after all - rather than contriving a way to get out onto the battlefield like Rolf and Mist do in PoR, she offers to help and eventually puts her foot down about going into combat with them before the battle even started.

Basically, I refuse to believe that Elincia is either dumb enough or impulsive enough to simply forget that Ike is her true love (which, I'm not totally sold on to be honest). However, I am willing to accept that she cares about both Geoffrey and Ike, and that she may even care for one more than the other. It seems much more plausible to me that she either gave up on Ike and settled for her friend Geoffrey, or that for a while she loved them both, but chose Geoffrey in the end because he showed more signs of actually loving her back. If she loved them both either equally or close to equally, it would make sense for her to call out to whoever was closest at the time when either they died or she died - and if they're both there, it makes sense for her to call out to Ike since he is the main character in the series and not everyone is going to do the ElinciaXGeoffrey supports.

[ReformBlade]

You haven't changed my mind, you've just put my thoughts down on paper correctly. I agree with your sentiments Cresneta

[BBM]

All evidence that I can remember (I may have forgotten) that seems to have been given for Ike x Elincia seem to be only from Elincia's side. Elincia flirted with him in PoR, Elincia says Ike's name when she dies, etc. If it is possible for Geoffrey x Elincia to be onesided, why can Ike x Elincia not be onesided, even if all this evidence you're giving is true?

Also, EB, basically the only reason you gave for thinking that the conversation between Ike x Soren is friendship and not romance, is because you didn't think it felt like romance. No offence, but what you think doesn't determine reality.

Personally, I don't think Ike is gay either, and I like Ike x Elincia more than I like Geoffrey x Elincia. However, I think that Geoffrey x Elincia is more likely, factoring in personality, the game script, and support endings.

Micaiah is the leader of the DB in all but name. I guess they made Nolan the leader because they didn't think some 16 year old should be the leader. Dunno why, it's plenty unrealistic already.

[Anacybele]

And I still think IkexElincia is more likely than GeoffreyxElincia regardless of Elincia marrying Geoffrey in the end. There are more reasons people marry other people than just love, after all, like I said. And to be honest, I have thought IkexElincia more likely since long before I actually began supporting the couple. I didn't actually fall in love with the pairing until the first time I saw PoR's ending, but I began supporting it while playing RD and noticing a few of the things I've used to back up my arguments.

And thus, I rest my case. I don't want to debate this anymore, because we're just going in circles. xP

I'd rather debate KieranxMarcia now! :D

I think they're quite likely, particularly because Kieran doesn't get closer to any other girl and he's only interested in Oscar as a rival. Kieran shows great loyalty to Geoffrey though. Still, obviously Geoffrey's not interested in him back, so that leaves Marcia (as I said, Rolf is too young lol). xP

EDIT: BigBangMeteor: To answer your question, I thought Ike showed signs that he was hiding how he really felt about Elincia. When Shinon (though drunk) accused him of being in love with her, Ike quickly changed the subject. I instantly thought the first time I saw that convo "Ooh hoo hoo, getting a little secretive here, are we, Ike?" :P Ranulf also seems to think there is something developing between them when he barges in on Ike and Elincia's alone time and we know he has a good intellect. And once again here, Ike quickly changes the subject! He seems to enjoy spending time alone with her as well. Plus, he practically jumped at the opportunity to return home with her in RD (albeit in a blunt manner, of course. XD). And what Ike tells her in his A support convo in PoR is the biggest indicator, imo. He says helping her means more to him than just mercenary work. MEANS MORE. That could definitely indicate that he loves her.

Note: I'm saying this as an argument to whether or not Ike might love Elincia. Nothing to do with Geoffrey here.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[PenandPaper71]

Kieran/Marcia is among the few PoR pairings that I actually have an opinion about, although I haven't fully made up my mind on it (Hearing that she ends up in Crimea, when she intended to return to Begnion at the end of PoR though is interesting. It doesn't actually mean anything, I know, but my shipper's mind has done more with less then that. :P Besides, that gives them plenty of time to develop feelings for one another).

Anyway, so far I'm finding the pairing very appealing. Their personalities seem to fit together well, enough so that I could see a romantic relationship between them working out well and being beneficial for both characters in the long run. Although I do wish that their supports were just a teeny bit more romance oriented, but, then again, neither character seems to really be the "romantic" type (Which could be another point for them as a couple since I think that they'd both drive anyone with that mindset nuts, but they probably wouldn't do that to one another).

Pretty fanart helps too. :P

[-Cynthia-]

Marcia staying in Crimea was a surprise in RD, since her support convo with Tanith says that she could be readmitted back into the Holy Guard.

Probably it's because to have actually have CRK chapters you need more than Geoffrey and Kieran (Makalov, Astrid, and Davned also stayed for fairly arbitrary reasons).

Edited May 16, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Anacybele]

Yeah. I wanna draw some KieranxMarcia fanart, for sure. I really like both of them individually too and that's saying something because I just can't get into the female FE characters as well as the guys. I dunno why, I just can't. xP

They're close behind IkexElincia as my second favorite FE pairing. :3

EDIT: Oh, and Cynthia, don't forget we had Calill, Nephenee, Heather, and Brom with the Royal Knights too.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

It says she governed Crimea and her reign was remembered as a golden age. That COULD mean she stayed, but not necessarily.

I know I'm late and all but those endings could be kinda like how historians write history books, in past tense. Or how people write fairytale endings. etc.

[-Cynthia-]

EDIT: Oh, and Cynthia, don't forget we had Calill, Nephenee, Heather, and Brom with the Royal Knights too.

Nephenee, Heather, and Brom were never part of the Royal Knights, they just help out Elincia/Lucia from the goodness of their hearts.

Calill's situation is weird, because Geoffrey tells her he doesn't want citizens involved before 2-3, but she just shows up in 3-9 and with the knights in 3-10. It would have made more sense fir her to rejoin in 3-2 IMO, but w/e.

Also all these characters are Crimean citizens, so it made sense for them to come back to Crimea.

Edited May 16, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[BBM]

I think that if there had been any stuff in RD to back up the stuff in PoR, I would agree with you, but alas, there isn't. Ike saying let's go home means nothing. They both live in Crimea, they're both important characters, and Geoffrey dying isn't a game over, nor is he a very plot important character outside of Part 2. IS being lazy seems much more likely to me than Elincia being forgetful. Seems to me that they just wrapped Elincia and Ike's farewell into one.

Without stuff in RD, losing your first crush after 3 years of not seeing each other seems more likely than a secret affair.

[Anacybele]

I don't think it was three years before they last saw one another. Ike was in Melior until half a year prior to RD at the soonest, so he had plenty of opportunities to see Elincia. And even then, nothing says he didn't go and do jobs for her after leaving Melior. xP

Also, the absence of stuff between them is exactly why I believe a secret affair to be possible after the closeness that developed in PoR.

But again, I wanted to end this debate.

Cynthia: I didn't mean they were part of the Royal Knights, I meant they fought alongside them.

[-Cynthia-]

And even then, nothing says he didn't go and do jobs for her after leaving Melior.

The script implies that Ike and co. haven't been in Crimea for a while (The Greil Mercenaries are nowhere to be found, We've been away far too long, etc.), so I doubt they've been hopping in and out of the palace the past half year.

[riariadne]

No particular sorting here. Also spoilers.

RolfXMist. No, screw you FE10, I don't care about your endings. Your ruined a cute pairing.

WilXRebecca I like this one a lot.

RoyXLilina

RoyXIdun as friends

EphraimXTana

EirikaXLyon before Lyon dies.

EirikaXInnes

L'ArachelXInnes

JoshuaXL'Arachel

JoshuaXNatasha

FlorinaXLyn as close friends.

LynXRath I really like this one.

WoltXSue This one too.

BriggidXHolyn And this one.

AideenXMidir

... I'll add more when I feel like it.

[Anacybele]

The script implies that Ike and co. haven't been in Crimea for a while (The Greil Mercenaries are nowhere to be found, We've been away far too long, etc.), so I doubt they've been hopping in and out of the palace the past half year.

They were nowhere to be found because they were hidden. It didn't say they left Crimea. If they did, where would they have gone? Ike explained this himself when he said in order to deceive enemies, you must deceive allies too sometimes. It hinted that this was all part of the job Bastian hired Ike and his mercenaries to do.

Lightning: I also don't care for RD's endings. In fact, the only ones I accepted were Naesala/Leanne and Haar/Jill. It ruined the cutest pairings ever.

[ReformBlade]

I find your theories extremely questionable if half of them are based on, "They didn't say they didn't do [something]..."

Just sayin...