FE Pairings

[-Cynthia-]

They still weren't doing jobs for Elincia because she didnt know where they were. If they had been around recently you think she would have been like "Oh, yeah I saw Ike last week/month" to Leanne/Nealuchi instead of just saying that they were gone (because it's pretty obvious she wants to ehlp htem, not be intentionally misleading). If they were still working for her, she would have seen them.

Edited May 16, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Anacybele]

I find your theories extremely questionable if half of them are based on, "They didn't say they didn't do [something]..."

Just sayin...

I'm not saying my theories are based on that, I'm only staying it's not impossible for some ideas to be true.

And Cynthia, I don't recall the game ever stating exactly WHEN Ike and the Greil Mercenaries went into hiding. They could have done jobs for Elincia before disappearing.

[BBM]

Them falling out of love is still more likely than a secret affair, and it still doesn't explain how they don't have an ending.

[Narga_Rocks]

Them falling out of love is still more likely than a secret affair, and it still doesn't explain how they don't have an ending.

Whatever you want to say about the first part of your statement, fine, whatever. I'll disagree, but that's not important right now. What I'm getting annoyed with is the utter hypocrisy of people saying "ignore deathquotes, that's just them being lazy and that's why Elincia doesn't scream out Geoffrey's name while dying" and then turn around and say about Ike x Elincia: "but they don't have an ending".

I.S. is either lazy or they aren't. PICK ONE. If the deathquotes thing is laziness, so is the ending business and thus I don't need to explain how they don't have an ending. It's obvious. I.S. is lazy. They could have just as easily given Ike x Elincia some sort of ending. At least, as easily as making their deathquotes better. Therefore, we should ignore the lack of an Ike x Elincia ending due to the creator's laziness.

[ReformBlade]

Therefore, we should ignore the lack of an Ike x Elincia ending due to the creator's laziness.

Or take it at face value and realize that is how it was meant to be? I doubt they'd completely forget to put an ending with 2 MCs or just go "Meh, I'm too tired"...

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I.S. is either lazy or they aren't. PICK ONE. If the deathquotes thing is laziness, so is the ending business and thus I don't need to explain how they don't have an ending. It's obvious. I.S. is lazy. They could have just as easily given Ike x Elincia some sort of ending. At least, as easily as making their deathquotes better. Therefore, we should ignore the lack of an Ike x Elincia ending due to the creator's laziness.

No. As SlaveBlade pointed out, the possibility of them forgetting endings for 2 main characters is indeed unlikely, specially when it shows that they put more effort into the character endings than in those death quotes and "support conversations" in the case of RD.

For example, take a look at the Shadow Dragon death quotes, you've got these:

Wolf:

Agh! Coyote...

Sedgar:

Nngh! Coyote...

Roshea:

Unnh! Coyote...

Vyland:

Rrgh! Coyote...

Dolph:

Forgive me...Princess Nyna...

Macellan:

Forgive me...Princess Nyna...

Barst:

Sorry, Captain Ogma...

Bord:

Captain Ogma... Nngh...

Cord:

Captain Ogma... Rrgh...

Then look at the endings.

Once again I'll point out Naesala x Leanne. Throughout the game the 2 show they care about each other, probably more than Ike and Elincia and NxL aren't as important to the story and yet...

Naesala x Leanne gets an ending. Neither mention each other's names in their death quotes.

What's happening here is that you and Eternal Bond are supporting a pairing and making claims by grasping at such small details that require interpretation while those that disagree with you are using evidence that is more apparent as well as what is officially stated in the game.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Cresneta]

Or take it at face value and realize that is how it was meant to be? I doubt they'd completely forget to put an ending with 2 MCs or just go "Meh, I'm too tired"...

Especially where Ike has a special ending with two characters already...

I half wonder if I.S. wanted to leave Ike single at the end of RD in order to leave things open for a third game with Ike in whatever distant land he went off to explore. I'm not saying that that guarantees a third game by any means - just that it leaves a third game with a new love interest open for him. If he found love or died while exploring other lands it would explain why he never came back to Tellius. The land that Nailah and Volug are from seems like a decent option for exploration, or at least a starting point.

As for MarciaXKieran - sounds interesting, if nothing else Marcia should like Kieran for being more or less the opposite of her brother... I actually don't mind AstridXMakalov because I think that love can make people that blind sometimes and I doubt there are very many other people who would actually take the poor lout.

[Narga_Rocks]

No. As SlaveBlade pointed out, the possibility of them forgetting endings for 2 main characters is indeed unlikely, specially when it shows that they put more effort into the character endings than in those death quotes and "support conversations" in the case of RD.

For example, take a look at the Shadow Dragon death quotes, you've got these:

Then look at the endings.

Once again I'll point out Naesala x Leanne. Throughout the game the 2 show they care about each other, probably more than Ike and Elincia and NxL aren't as important to the story and yet...

What's happening here is that you and Eternal Bond are supporting a pairing and making claims by grasping at such small details that require interpretation while those that disagree with you are using evidence that is more apparent as well as what is officially stated in the game.

And again, you'd have a point if not for the death convo between Elincia and Geoffrey in which she dies without mentioning him and he laments her passing. Unfortunately, it does exist so your point fails. If they can make a death quote in which Geoffrey speaks (clearly he isn't forgotten) then you'd think Elincia might mention him, too. she doesn't, though. And yet apparently that means nothing while them leaving out a couple of other things somehow means everything. One is "laziness" despite them obviously not being too lazy to have Geoffrey say "What's the point of living without you?" and yet the others where things are left entirely out are somehow not laziness but intent. Why are some things intentional if they support your viewpoint but other things are laziness when they don't support your viewpoint?

I said it before, if a death conversation had existed between Naesala and Leanne in which one character made their feelings obvious and the other didn't, you'd have a point when you keep bringing them up. They don't, though, so it doesn't really help you. The creators were lazy, I'll give you that. As a result there is no death convo between the two of them. That's not the case between Geoffrey and Elincia. Why does everything else that is in the game mean something except this one convo? Perhaps because it is damaging to your case? I can't see any other reason to completely ignore it as if it didn't exist. Why can't you take this one at face value? Elincia doesn't think much about Geoffrey but he thinks the world of her. That indicates something about her feelings to me. Why can't you "take it at face value and realize that is how it was meant to be"? This wasn't laziness, this was Intelligent systems telling you something.

And laziness isn't about forgetting. It's about how they have, what, 10 special endings total? There are how many characters? Clearly they were being lazy. I doubt they forgot about all the other characters and some of the other developing relationships that got ignored. It was just being lazy. If a convo that appears to be completed was somehow laziness when they didn't have Elincia say anything to Geoffrey then I could call just about anything laziness.

[-Cynthia-]

Elincia is dying and Geoffrey is reacting to her death. Remember that if Geoffrey dies, Elincia is clearly distressed (oh no, don't leave me alone etc. etc.) Now if Elincia had no reaction to Geoffrey's death that would be different. You're pretending as if Geoffrey said "I love you" and Elincia said nothing, where as Elincia saying that she's dying and Geoffrey is lamenting it, which is quite different.

Basically you're saying that to care for each other, the couple must call out each other's name while in the process of dying. This invalidates couples like Leanne/Naesala (though Leanne/Nealuchi is plausible under this criteria), because they don't call out each other's names while dying, despite clearly having feelings for each other.

I don't think "Elincia doesn't care about Geoffrey' is a valid interpretationn of that death quote. I can see 'Elincia cares about Crimea' or 'Geoffrey cares about Elincia'. Making a huge assumption that Elincia doesn't care about Geoffrey from this quote is preposterous, it really doesn't say anything about how she feels about him (the only way it does is if you have the criteria that love is calling out your partner's name when you die, which is stupid). Elincia's quote while Geoffrey dies on the other hand shows that she really doesn't want hm to die and that he's important to her.

Edited May 18, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

I'm just going to leave this here:

FF 00 Lucia

FF 01 Sanaki, Geoffrey, Leanne

FF 02 Ike, Tibarn

00 00 Renning

00 01 Caineghis, Calill, Kieran, Astrid, Marcia, Makalov, Bastian, Ranulf

This is a list of Elincia's quickest supports from top to bottom. Notice who's higher up on the list

And:

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/support_b.html

Look at Elincia's bonds, no Ike. I do believe they based bonds/support speeds off character relations here so this has to say something.

[Narga_Rocks]

Elincia is dying and Geoffrey is reacting to her death. Remember that if Geoffrey dies, Elincia is clearly distressed (oh no, don't leave me alone etc. etc.) Now if Elincia had no reaction to Geoffrey's death that would be different. You're pretending as if Geoffrey said "I love you" and Elincia said nothing, where as Elincia saying that she's dying and Geoffrey is lamenting it, which is quite different.

Basically you're saying that to care for each other, the couple must call out each other's name while in the process of dying. This invalidates couples like Leanne/Naesala (though Leanne/Nealuchi is plausible under this criteria), because they don't call out each other's names while dying, despite clearly having feelings for each other.

I don't think "Elincia doesn't care about Geoffrey' is a valid interpretationn of that death quote. I can see 'Elincia cares about Crimea' or 'Geoffrey cares about Elincia'. Making a huge assumption that Elincia doesn't care about Geoffrey from this quote is preposterous, it really doesn't say anything about how she feels about him (the only way it does is if you have the criteria that love is calling out your partner's name when you die, which is stupid). Elincia's quote while Geoffrey dies on the other hand shows that she really doesn't want hm to die and that he's important to her.

Of course he's important to her. Actually I did question earlier whether that quote (Geoffrey die, Elincia says "I'll be all alone") happens anywhere but 2-E. If it happens outside of 2-E then it's a really strong point in favour of Elincia loving Geoffrey. If it only happens in 2-E, it very much isn't.

And it's not that you must say the person you love while dying. It's that Elincia has multiple death quotes and she mentions 4 different people and one entire country and never once mentions Geoffrey. And one of her convos is even with Geoffrey. I can't think of any other characters (except Ike) that have a paired ending with someone but act that way. Leanne actually comes close due to calling out Ike, Nealuchi, brother, father in various death quotes but never Naesala. If she had a convo like Elincia's where she talks about random non-Naesala things and then Naesala complains about her dying I might actually start questioning that one, too. Well, I question it anyway, technically, but that's more from an ick standpoint.

The point is that Ike and Elincia are unique among paired people. Ike has death convos where he ignores soren and soren laments his passing. Ditto Geoffrey and Elincia. The rest simply don't have convos with their paired ending. I can chalk up the latter to laziness. Can't make a special death convo for everyone. I can't chalk up the former to laziness. The fact that convos exist between Ike/Elincia and the people in their paired endings and yet you don't get that type of thing coming from Ike or Elincia (but get it in droves from soren and Geoffrey) supports the one-sided-ness of the relationships.

Oh, sothe and Micaiah have death convos where they talk to each other, of course, but that helps my point. There are four pairings for which the designers weren't too lazy to have them talk to each other while dying. Of those, only one pairing shows a two-way relationship. The other three (Ike x Ranulf, Ike x soren, Elincia x Geoffrey)? Not so much. The other 6 pairings having no death convos is laziness. It doesn't mean the relationships are invalidated. Having conversations like the ones the above 3 pairings have? One-Way.

As for bonds, Ike is full already and he spends more time in-game with them than with Elincia. Notice that the three herons have no bonus to their support with each other and have no bond support. They are siblings. The other sibling or other familial tied pairs (aside from Marcia and Makalov) all have 10s. Does that mean that the three herons hate each other? As for support speed, Ike x Elincia is the same level as Astrid x Makalov. Are you invalidating Astrid x Makalov? They have no bond, and are FF 02. Just like Ike x Elincia. However, they don't have the excuse that one of the two is already full. They even start their part of the game already together and apparently have been for some time. And Lucia has no bond with Bastian, either, though they are an FF 01.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

As for bonds, Ike is full already and he spends more time in-game with them than with Elincia. Notice that the three herons have no bonus to their support with each other and have no bond support. They are siblings. The other sibling or other familial tied pairs (aside from Marcia and Makalov) all have 10s. Does that mean that the three herons hate each other? As for support speed, Ike x Elincia is the same level as Astrid x Makalov. Are you invalidating Astrid x Makalov? They have no bond, and are FF 02. Just like Ike x Elincia. However, they don't have the excuse that one of the two is already full. They even start their part of the game already together and apparently have been for some time. And Lucia has no bond with Bastian, either, though they are an FF 01.

Actually let's say you had an OscarxIke A in PoR and transfer it over Oscar's name never shows up in Ike's bond list but he still gets the transferred bonds bonus from Oscar.

The three Herons don't have bonds because they're never deployed together, what's the point of even creating bonds for them?

Astrid and Makalov may be an FF 02 but Astrid is the highest female on Makalov's list whereas Marcia's the only 01 on Astrid's list and then comes 02 with Sothe(Who is already with Micaiah) and Kyza(I don't know why they have a speedy support together but whatever) and then Makalov, once again, point invalidated.

Yes Lucia and Bastian have no bond because Lucia doesn't start developing feelings for him until after the game I believe or near the end of it.

But really though, it still says something when Geoffrey is higher up on the list and has a bond with Elincia whereas she doesn't have one with Ike

[Anacybele]

Especially where Ike has a special ending with two characters already...

I half wonder if I.S. wanted to leave Ike single at the end of RD in order to leave things open for a third game with Ike in whatever distant land he went off to explore. I'm not saying that that guarantees a third game by any means - just that it leaves a third game with a new love interest open for him. If he found love or died while exploring other lands it would explain why he never came back to Tellius. The land that Nailah and Volug are from seems like a decent option for exploration, or at least a starting point.

Except that Hatari is part of Tellius and Ike's ending says he specifically leaves Tellius. I believe he more than likely either went northeast past Daein or left by sea to the west of Crimea.

As for the rest of this, I wanted to end this debate. Still, as usual, I'm on Narga's side, although Joey has a point about the three herons.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Narga_Rocks]

Actually let's say you had an OscarxIke A in PoR and transfer it over Oscar's name never shows up in Ike's bond list but he still gets the transferred bonds bonus from Oscar.

And yet there is nothing like this from the beginning with no transfers. I'm sure you could get a 5 bond for Ike and Elincia if you transfer a game with an A support between them. The point is that they didn't create anyone to always have more than 4 bonds.

The three Herons don't have bonds because they're never deployed together, what's the point of even creating bonds for them?

And Elincia isn't with Ike nearly as much as the 4 units that are actually on his list. And since it seems the designers didn't want to create any units to automatically have 5 bonds, which unit makes the most sense to drop from the bonds? Besides, you realize there are bonds between units that aren't even on the same side. RD has Kurth and his daddy. sephiran has one with Zelgius. PoR has Petrine and Ashnard (though I suppose for trial maps blocking crits on Petrine is a uve...). Leanne in PoR has 3 (including Reyson) with units she'll never actually meet in battle since she is only present in 17-3 and 17-4. Greil has one with Ike. Griel protects Titania from crits. Naesala protects PoR Nealuchi from crits. The heron lacking bonds thing falls into laziness. They clearly didn't care about including all the bonds that make sense. Ike and Elincia lacking one can be chalked up to either laziness or someone deciding 4 is enough. The herons never being deployed together doesn't invalidate this point. 3 units not having bonds with each other (despite two of whom having a meaningless bond in the previous game) shows that Ike and Elincia lacking bonds has more than one potential explanation.

Astrid and Makalov may be an FF 02 but Astrid is the highest female on Makalov's list whereas Marcia's the only 01 on Astrid's list and then comes 02 with Sothe(Who is already with Micaiah) and Kyza(I don't know why they have a speedy support together but whatever) and then Makalov, once again, point invalidated.

You do realize that a 00 01 grows much faster than an FF 02, right? The FF 02 is basically meaningless in comparison to a 00 01. Astrid has a 00 01 with Kieran and Geoffrey. Makalov has a 00 01 with Elincia. Point not invalidated, sorry. Both Astrid and Makalov appear to have potential partners with a better support speed than each other. I mean, would you seriously say that the FF 03 and FF 04 are better than a 00 01 or 00 02? The FF doesn't matter, it's the numbers afterwards that determine the growth of the support points.

Yes Lucia and Bastian have no bond because Lucia doesn't start developing feelings for him until after the game I believe or near the end of it.

And the two that start together and have an FF 02 and no bond? What's your excuse there? I mean, aside from the whole "nothing speedier despite there being something speedier" excuse. Besides, "her affair with Bastian continues". Not sure that's saying there weren't feelings before. What is your basis?

But really though, it still says something when Geoffrey is higher up on the list and has a bond with Elincia whereas she doesn't have one with Ike

I don't think the lack of bond means much. They changed the system. Elincia had a form of bond with Ike in PoR. she prevented crits (had the same with Geoffrey). It seems to me that it was the lack of space rather than anything else. Now, being higher on the list is a problem, but Ranulf x Giffca does have higher priority than Ike x Ranulf. And Ike is closer to Nasir (FF 00) than soren (FF 01) and ranulf (FF 01) (apparently). Not sure how much it says when a few other units don't actually care about that stuff despite having paired endings.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[-Cynthia-]

And it's not that you must say the person you love while dying.

OK, then why is this whole death quote thing even relevant? You were acting as if 'wow Elincia didn't say Geoffrey's name while she died, that means she doesn't love him!" This doesn't happen with a lot of people. Lots of characters don't say the names of anyone, or say someone they only love platonically it changes in different chapters, yadda yadda. Death quotes have no consistency here or in any other FE, and to say things like "oh look these are one way so they're invalidated" is just stupid.

Once again, you're choosing to read far too into things. Do you honestly think that the programmers at IS set up that quote in 2-E to prove that Geoffrey/Elincia in one sided, then have them get married at the end of the game, with no possibility for alternative endings for either of them? That's both far too subtle for Fire Emblem, not to mention completely retarded.

Face it, the game developers clearly support Geoffrey/Elincia. That's why they have the paired ending. They do not support Ike/Elincia. Ike's only endings are where he leaves the continent, with Soren or Ranulf, he cannot possibly be with Elincia. No matter how much you prefer Ike/Elincia, there is not the evidence to support it, all the relevant evidence (clearly stated, obvious) is Elincia/Geoffrey.

Honestly, try applying your logic to real life. "ZOMG my mom mentioned her brother first in the will. Clearly she was in love with him forever, not the man she was actually married to!"

Edited May 18, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Narga_Rocks]

Honestly, try applying your logic to real life. "ZOMG my mom mentioned her brother first in the will. Clearly she was in love with him forever, not the man she was actually married to!"

Well, in the case of a will I'd rather look at who got the most. I wouldn't necessarily say she's "in love" with whoever gets the most, but at the time of writing it she could certainly be more upset with one person than another. Or she could be taking care of the one that needs it most.

Anyway, not necessarily real life but on TV they do this kind of thing plenty. It causes break-ups, even. Whomever a person is apparently thinking about the most often causes trouble for other relationships if they don't end up dead.

Besides, you seem to have ignored everything else I wrote there and took something out of context, so whatever.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anacybele]

You know, I think there's another thing we're all forgetting here. The developers control the series. They choose the pairings. We don't decide who they don't and do support. Although Cynthia is right in saying that they seem to support Geoffrey/Elincia now because they chose to pair them in the end, they are also free to overturn that pairing if they wish in a third game. And I can very well see them doing that, actually. Ike/Elincia seems to be far more popular than Geoffrey/Elincia (honestly, whenever I Google Elincia and even Ike SEPARATELY, I end up finding far more Ike/Elincia fanart than Geoffrey/Elincia. I also see a ton more of it on DA and this other site I found on Google didn't have a single Geoffrey/Elincia picture, but a few Ike/Elincia, one of which even showed them "doing it" believe it or not), so if IS wants to make as many fans happy as possible, I bet you they'd have better results if they overturned Geoffrey/Elincia for Ike/Elincia and they very well have the power to do so.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[ReformBlade]

You know, I think there's another thing we're all forgetting here. The developers control the series. They choose the pairings. We don't decide who they don't and do support. Although Cynthia is right in saying that they seem to support Geoffrey/Elincia now because they chose to pair them in the end, they are also free to overturn that pairing if they wish in a third game. And I can very well see them doing that, actually. Ike/Elincia seems to be far more popular than Geoffrey/Elincia (honestly, whenever I Google Elincia and even Ike SEPARATELY, I end up finding far more Ike/Elincia fanart than Geoffrey/Elincia. I also see a ton more of it on DA and this other site I found on Google didn't have a single Geoffrey/Elincia picture, but a few Ike/Elincia, one of which even showed them "doing it" believe it or not), so if IS wants to make as many fans happy as possible, I bet you they'd have better results if they overturned Geoffrey/Elincia for Ike/Elincia and they very well have the power to do so.

Great, you can find more pics of it. It's almost like people saw it coming from PoR and then they didn't get it in RD, which isn't even helping your view at all. What's the point of this random fact? Popularity has absolutely no effect on what is and isn't canon.

[Narga_Rocks]

Great, you can find more pics of it. It's almost like people saw it coming from PoR and then they didn't get it in RD, which isn't even helping your view at all. What's the point of this random fact? Popularity has absolutely no effect on what is and isn't canon.

Did you even comprehend what she was saying at all?

Now, I don't believe they'll make a third game, but her point was that if they did make a new game the developers may choose to give Ike and Elincia an ending. Not sure how they'd pull it off. To be a "golden age" you have to figure minimum 10 years of rule. A 30 year old Elincia could go off and search for Ike (oh no, it's like ffx-2) and have them end up together. I don't think they'd do it, though, and Ike certainly can't return (at least, not publicly and not obviously as himself. "He was never seen again" doesn't necessarily mean by any of the cast. The rest of the stuff seems more like a "from the perspective of the masses").

But her point was that the developers, in the event of a third game, would perhaps decide to go with the more popular pairing. And yet you think the fact that it is popular somehow doesn't help that view? Are you insane?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Still, considering all the interaction there was between Ike and Elincia, it's weird how they wouldn't consider Elincia and Ike a more popular pairing than the canons in RD.

[Narga_Rocks]

Still, considering all the interaction there was between Ike and Elincia, it's weird how they wouldn't consider Elincia and Ike a more popular pairing than the canons in RD.

I don't understand. I guess you mean that it's weird how they somehow didn't guess that many people would like Ike x Elincia more than their other options?

[ReformBlade]

Did you even comprehend what she was saying at all?

Now, I don't believe they'll make a third game, but her point was that if they did make a new game the developers may choose to give Ike and Elincia an ending. Not sure how they'd pull it off. To be a "golden age" you have to figure minimum 10 years of rule. A 30 year old Elincia could go off and search for Ike (oh no, it's like ffx-2) and have them end up together. I don't think they'd do it, though, and Ike certainly can't return (at least, not publicly and not obviously as himself. "He was never seen again" doesn't necessarily mean by any of the cast. The rest of the stuff seems more like a "from the perspective of the masses").

But her point was that the developers, in the event of a third game, would perhaps decide to go with the more popular pairing. And yet you think the fact that it is popular somehow doesn't help that view? Are you insane?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. You're calling me the insane when you two are the ones grasping at the tiniest of straws, making some pretty ridiculous claims (Oh, they didunt marree owt ov luv, duh!)... What both of you are extremely failing to recognize is that FE isn't exactly a series that ignores cliches. It thrives on cliches. You are conveniently throwing out any and all things that are pretty damn certain to happen given the genre. She married Geoffrey, she knew him since she was a child, he is INSANELY devoted to her, He's a very handsome man with the highest of moral standards, what the hell is there NOT to love about the guy from her perspective?! What, he's not roid'd up like Ike?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I don't understand. I guess you mean that it's weird how they somehow didn't guess that many people would like Ike x Elincia more than their other options?

Bingo. In PoR you see Ike and Elincia converse quite often and with all the stuff you and EB are pointing out, doesn't it become rather apparent that people who played PoR would see Elincia end up with Ike as the canon pairing? Relationships between main characters isn't something they'd easily forget yet manage to remember pairing her with a character of less significance to the story.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Narga_Rocks]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. You're calling me the insane when you two are the ones grasping at the tiniest of straws, making some pretty ridiculous claims (Oh, they didunt marree owt ov luv, duh!)... What both of you are extremely failing to recognize is that FE isn't exactly a series that ignores cliches. It thrives on cliches. You are conveniently throwing out any and all things that are pretty damn certain to happen given the genre. She married Geoffrey, she knew him since she was a child, he is INSANELY devoted to her, He's a very handsome man with the highest of moral standards, what the hell is there NOT to love about the guy from her perspective?! What, he's not roid'd up like Ike?

I was calling you insane for saying popularity has no effect on making decisions based on popularity. That made no sense at all. Your post had zero to do with her most recent post.

Focus on our words, not your feelings about previous posts.

"And yet you think the fact that it is popular somehow doesn't help that view? Are you insane?"

I made it pretty clear why I was calling you crazy. How can something being popular not help the viewpoint that the developers may make another game that follows the more popular side? You can question that they would be willing to follow the popular pairing, I wouldn't call you insane for that. I called you crazy because you didn't do that. You basically said "being popular doesn't help your view that Ike x Elincia may get chosen in another game for being popular". What? How does that make any sense to you? I would never call you crazy for liking Geoffrey x Elincia more than Ike x Elincia. Whatever one you like is fine. Notice I never called Cynthia or speedwagon crazy. What gets to me is how you treated her last post. That's what makes me question your sanity, or at least your objectiveness. You completely ignored her entire point in order to attack her. You tried to make her look stupid by ignoring what she was actually getting at.

Answer me this: how can being popular not help the view that they'd make Ike x Elincia in another game if they want to go with a more popular pairing? Would it help her point if they were unpopular? Is that even remotely logical?

Besides, it's two competing cliche's, you know. Hero + Princess vs. Childhood Friend. Plus, have you seen most of what comes out of Japan involving childhood friends or the older male figure to the young girl? Ever watch Cardcaptor sakura and look at how she acts towards Julian (or whatever his name may be in the original Japanese)? This is more how I would expect Elincia to act towards the "noble knight" or whatever that she grew up with. she should be falling all over him in at least one scene if you expect me to buy that particular cliche. she doesn't. she never does that type of thing. Coming from Japan, I'd expect if they are going to go with "girl falls for older knight she grew up with" that Elincia would be acting a lot differently around him than she does. Never once do I get the feeling that Elincia feels much of anything beyond deep friendship for him. The marriage basically comes out of nowhere.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Never once do I get the feeling that Elincia feels much of anything beyond deep friendship for him. The marriage basically comes out of nowhere.

This is what I find hard to understand. How can you say that "the marriage basically comes out of nowhere" when you look at the FE9 conversations?

Throughout the 2 games Geoffrey basically shows his devotion and love for her and she makes it evident that she appreciates all he does for her. Again, she was hasty to get Geoffrey out of the battlefield because of her concern for him but this doesn't exist in Ike's support conversation.

Even though Geoffrey and Elincia are childhood friends, wouldn't it make sense to show such concern for the guy you seem to be falling for as well? Maybe even more concern than that.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Speedwagon