H3 (Lunatic) Tier List

[Zakaerys]

Well, there is the last chapter utility for recruiting one of the bishops. So technically, you do need Merric to complete the game in the best way. Although I suppose you could just as easy use Warp and two rescue uses...

[dondon151]

I don't see you disagreeing with me. You haven't shown that Merric is necessary to complete the game. Whether or not he's ideal for a certain role should be reflected in his tier list position (a change that I won't disagree with), but right now you're just arguing against, well, points that I didn't make.

And I'd like to have easier access to Hammerne.

Hammerne is E rank, and last I checked, there is no staff rank lower than E.

Oh great, implying. I thought that was limited to 4chan.

I would expect for us at SF to have a greater capacity for subtle expression than the users at 4chan.

Well, there is the last chapter utility for recruiting one of the bishops. So technically, you do need Merric to complete the game in the best way. Although I suppose you could just as easy use Warp and two rescue uses...

Don't nitpick. Just kill Elice if you don't want to field Merric.

Edited August 11, 2010 by dondon151

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Although I suppose you could just as easy use Warp and two rescue uses...

Warp doesn't exist in Lunatic.

Don't nitpick. Just kill Elice if you don't want to field Merric.

IMO if you can promote Merric for Rescue Staff usage you might be able to make the final chapter easier.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Joey

[Mekkah]

Rescue is E ranked!

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Rescue is E ranked!

Oh derp, I wonder how I mistook it as a C Staff.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Can you buy warpstaves in a shop on insanity at least? Cause that is bullshit if they removed them completely.

[Tryhard]

As far as I know, there is no way to obtain the warp staff or silver card on Lunatic mode.

Meaning that you can't get the Aum or Hammerne staff.

Outside of hacking it in.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Kelsper

[Colonel M]

Don't forget the WiFi Shop. :/

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Don't forget the WiFi Shop. :/

Yeah but remember WiFi is never assumed. Besides, I'm sure there's people other than me who prefer to play the game without using WiFi Shop at all.

[fatgamecat]

I don't see you disagreeing with me. You haven't shown that Merric is necessary to complete the game. Whether or not he's ideal for a certain role should be reflected in his tier list position (a change that I won't disagree with), but right now you're just arguing against, well, points that I didn't make.

Hammerne is E rank, and last I checked, there is no staff rank lower than E.

Only Malliesia and Lena can use Hammerne, despite being an E stave.

I did forget to mention that you're required to bring Merric to the final chapter to recruit one of the bishops, so it makes a lot of sense to train him up so he'll be useful there. If you don't take Merric, not only will your end of game survival rank drop, but Medeus will heal himself at the point of death by eating one of the bishops. If you take him as an untrained mage, he's going to be totally useless instead of being able to use Again staves. So that's another good reason to use him. I never claimed Merric was necessary to complete the game, just that he's worth taking over Etzel or Linde.

The WiFi shop has several items that make Lunatic mode substantially easier. Rescue staves, Again staves, and hero weapons. You only get one hero weapon of each type in Ch 20, that's it. Imagine running around Ch 1 Lunatic with multiple hero weapons and rescue/again staves.. yeah. And don't forget the free drops they are offering - maturity and bond drops, and probably rainbow drops later. Rainbow drops are an unreleased item with 77 uses that increases all stats by +2 for a chapter. Combine all of that together and Lunatic mode doesn't seem very intimidating anymore. Also the rankings seem to be disappointingly low unless there's some amazing S rank qualification nobody has achieved yet. I've been beating Paperblade's turn counts pretty well (I feel bad for his My Unit female mage) and I've acquired every chest/item drop in the game and I'll probably get an A just like he did.

Based on that, I'd say FE5 SSS rank is still the most difficult game in the series. The only way Lunatic mode is a challenge is if you slap down some player defined challenges like no wifi, get all item drops, get faster than the A speed time, etc.

Edited August 11, 2010 by mjemirzian

[Dr. Tarrasque]

--/20 Etzel on average and fully leveled as Sorc will proc 11.2 HP and 5.6 RES, giving him 41.2 HP and 17.6 RES. Reclass to Bishop for another +3 RES. Throw him a Pure Water for a total of 27 RES. Gharnef has 46 ATK targeting RES so Etzel will take 19 damage twice, nuking his HP down to 3 if attacked at 27 RES or 1 if attacked at 26 RES. This isn't even taking into account the RES stat booster or any Bond/Potion that adds +2 RES for the chapter which no1 really cares about so if those are used, he could go Sage for a bit more damage.

There, Etzel survives against Gharnef, can be healed back up to full HP with one of the many Recover staves you should have at this point.

If you take him as an untrained mage, he's going to be totally useless instead of being able to use Again staves

Or hey, here's an idea: The guy's base level is 10, you could promote him at any time you want and he could use Rescue staff there while your Etzel could serve as an Again Staff user if used to heal often enough and reclassed to Bishop if necessary.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Sirius

[Paperblade]

Don't nitpick. Just kill Elice if you don't want to field Merric.

Elice is a free heal/Again/Rescue use and has a support with Marth. Medeus has 50 Avoid (30 Spd, 20 from terrain). Marth with capped Skl/Lck and Falchion has 143 Hit, so his options are MU (good, but MU will either be killing dragons that get in your way or staffbotting, since it has no business attacking Medeus), Caeda (see MU but an even worse option), Merric, and Elice.

Merric is required to get Elice, so you'll likely want him doing something (even if it just Rescuing Minerva/someone to recruit/kill Maria... or doing the deed himself, which would save a Rescue staff). Marth is 2HKO'd at best and need 2-5 attacks to kill Medeus depending on Crits. You COULD have MU or Caeda kill Elice to be in range, but this is a strictly inferior option to just recruiting her. You can't use a Staff after attacking.

If nothing else, Merric gives more healing (from himself and Elice) in case your current ones have trouble keeping Marth up. Oh, and gives Marth 5 crit.

[Colonel M]

Yeah but remember WiFi is never assumed. Besides, I'm sure there's people other than me who prefer to play the game without using WiFi Shop at all.

Well same here but I'm just one of those "technical" guys I guess.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Elice is a free heal/Again/Rescue use and has a support with Marth. Medeus has 50 Avoid (30 Spd, 20 from terrain). Marth with capped Skl/Lck and Falchion has 143 Hit, so his options are MU (good, but MU will either be killing dragons that get in your way or staffbotting, since it has no business attacking Medeus), Caeda (see MU but an even worse option), Merric, and Elice.

Merric is required to get Elice, so you'll likely want him doing something (even if it just Rescuing Minerva/someone to recruit/kill Maria... or doing the deed himself, which would save a Rescue staff). Marth is 2HKO'd at best and need 2-5 attacks to kill Medeus depending on Crits. You COULD have MU or Caeda kill Elice to be in range, but this is a strictly inferior option to just recruiting her. You can't use a Staff after attacking.

If nothing else, Merric gives more healing (from himself and Elice) in case your current ones have trouble keeping Marth up. Oh, and gives Marth 5 crit.

Merric is not going up based on any interaction he has with Elice. Characters are not rewarded for recruiting other characters, and even if Merric has a very good reason to come to the final chapter, he can sit around and be useful with Rescue even if he doesn't gain a single drop of EXP the whole time, simply because he shows up at Lv. 10 and can be immediately promoted.

None of this "Merric is required to complete the game" or "Merric is really useful for recruiting an endgame bishop" shit is going to fly.

[Rewjeo]

If you don't take Merric, not only will your end of game survival rank drop

Cool. Glad we care about our survival rank when trying to play efficiently.

[Colonel M]

What Paperblade means is that you're likely taking Merric anyway, and with him using Staves it is easier for a more efficient clear with a trained Merric than an untrained Merric. I guess he can still use Rescue at base, but there is also the Again Staff which is B Rank... /me shrugs.

Merric of course isn't "necessary" by any means, but definitely helps make the final battle easier with recruiting Elice. Now of course I'm not counting his contribution toward recruiting Elice since the only thing he has to do is be fielded anyway.

[Don Draper]

Unless Ryan is blessed by 2 points, he isn't doubling any. Jake is only doubling the 18 SPD ones unless he is blessed in SPD by a point. Also, if Ryan has 35 MT and Jake has 29, how is Ryan doing 9 more damage per shot?

I meant to put 18x2 which is still a 3RKO, and therefore changes nothing about my argument.

[Rewjeo]

He still isn't doubling without the 2 pt. bless.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

The WiFi shop has several items that make Lunatic mode substantially easier. Rescue staves, Again staves, and hero weapons. You only get one hero weapon of each type in Ch 20, that's it. Imagine running around Ch 1 Lunatic with multiple hero weapons and rescue/again staves.. yeah. And don't forget the free drops they are offering - maturity and bond drops, and probably rainbow drops later. Rainbow drops are an unreleased item with 77 uses that increases all stats by +2 for a chapter. Combine all of that together and Lunatic mode doesn't seem very intimidating anymore. Also the rankings seem to be disappointingly low unless there's some amazing S rank qualification nobody has achieved yet. I've been beating Paperblade's turn counts pretty well (I feel bad for his My Unit female mage) and I've acquired every chest/item drop in the game and I'll probably get an A just like he did.

WiFi isn't taken into account, as not all players potentially have access to it. Same with drops/bonds/potions/etc.

Oh and before you make the "not all players have access to reclass" argument, I'm talking about people who either don't get lucky with the potions or complete the game in one sitting and never get the random bonuses, or the people who have WPA routers and only a DS Lite (which is only compatible with WEP) or any other reason someone might not have access to this stuff. Same reason we don't assume stuff like access to the Mario Kart Double Dash disk bonuses for FE7 and the like.

[grandjackal]

What about the stat boosters the normal base shop sells? Since we're assuming fused male classes, can we assume these boosters as well?

Also, I may have stumbled onto something huge. I have to wonder how many people actually noticed this, but....

I promoted Cecile from myrm to swordmaster (I'm still on my normal run to get a feel, just fucking around). I got the following boosts.

+6HP, +2 Str, +1 Mag, +9 Skill, +7 Spd, +2 Def, +3 Res, +1 Move

That's not a typo. 9 skill and 7 speed instead of 2 for each. Looking through the classes, for the most part...It looks like females got a ludicrous boost in swordmaster bases, or swordmasters in general got a retardedly powerful buff.

Looking through the classes...

Dracos got a +3 Skl base buff, same with Paladins.

Snipers are the same as they are.

Generals are the same as they were.

Now I'm going to promote a level 10 Malice.

I only get +2 Skl and Spd.

A lvl 18 Roddy.

+3 Skl instead of +2, +7 Spd instead of +2.

Seems your level corresponds to the promotion boosts. Let me do another test.

Roddy to Paladin

Same boosts. However, when I switch to Swordmaster I still seem to have that 27 Spd instead of 22.

Ok, wtf. Why is it the other classes seem to stay the same, but Swordmaster gets ridonculous speed, YET someone like Malice doesn't get the same speed boosts as these guys?

[Rewjeo]

Maybe it has to do with Malice being a myrmidon before reclass? That's really strange.

[arvilino]

I think thats because you probably maxed out speed with Cecile and Rody as cavaliers. Then you switched to Myrmidon which has 5 more base speed, so they actually have 25 as Myrmidons but it's capped at 20.

[Rewjeo]

And so Malice being raised simply as a myrmidon means her "true speed" (if you'd call it that) was only 20, meaning she only got +2. That makes sense.

[grandjackal]

I think thats because you probably maxed out speed with Cecile and Rody as cavaliers. Then you switched to Myrmidon which has 5 more base speed, so they actually have 25 as Myrmidons but it's capped at 20.

Now that I think about it, this is probably more likely. Problem is, this is a huge discrepency. Myrms have 11 AS, cavs have 6. It could be just adding the extra speed +the bonus.

Alright, my bad...I had never seen that before, it was just weird. Then again, how many people had done that before in FEDS?

[Paperblade]

I think thats because you probably maxed out speed with Cecile and Rody as cavaliers. Then you switched to Myrmidon which has 5 more base speed, so they actually have 25 as Myrmidons but it's capped at 20.

This is correct. When I level'd Caeda I would have her arena as an Archer between chapters to level up so that she'd have more Speed when she promoted (Archer base Speed sucks)