Kintenbo Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 At the very least, I hope that anti-theism doesn't increase. I don't get why some folks believe that we Christians are poison to society. Yeah, some of us get obnoxious, but there's obnoxious people within every worldview. That's the problem with our sin nature, this according to my worldview, of course. And I mean our as in all people, no exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Zomg Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) I feel that this image is kinda relevant to this topic. Even IS kinda thought so (well, this one character) *Sorry for short post! It won't happen again! Edited March 30, 2011 by Ken Zomg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 At the very least, I hope that anti-theism doesn't increase. I don't get why some folks believe that we Christians are poison to society. Yeah, some of us get obnoxious, but there's obnoxious people within every worldview. . . .and that would have been perfect. "Irritating" is a human quality, and one doesn't need to be religious to get on people's nerves. just look at the people bashing FF13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Addict Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Firstly, just pointing out that I'm loving this forum so far because of the deep discussions happening (and some of them aren't even about FE) Anyways, as for this topic, here are the reasons why I think people believe in god, in order of importance (if we are to "eradicate" religion, one must find an alternative and intellectually satisfying solutions to each of the problem that religion "solves): 1. The desire to live forever 2. Comfort in believing that we hold a privileged position in the vastness of the universe 3. Not feeling lonely and knowing that there is an omnipotent being who "loves" you, care for you, and will do anything to make you happy 4. Indoctrination IMO, number 1, 2, and 3 are based purely on delusion. The only way to fix this problem would be to accept the fact that everyone dies, accept the fact that our planet is insignificant compared to everything else out there, and to accept that sometimes bad things happen -- even to good people (unfortunately, not likely to happen). Now, number 4 is something that we can fix simply by teaching people (children in particular) the skills of critical thinking and by discouraging children (children as in really young kids who are willing to basically believe in Santa Claus) from believing in the ideologies of a certain religion. By critical thinking I mean teaching them to draw their own conclusions based on empirical evidence. Just my thoughts. EDIT: typos and various other improvements Edited April 19, 2011 by Fire Emblem Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Firstly, just pointing out that I'm loving this forum so far because of the deep discussions happening (and some of them aren't even about FE) Thanks, but. . . Anyways, as for this topic, here are the reasons why I think people believe in god, in order of importance (if we are to "eradicate" religion, one must find an alternative and intellectually satisfying solutions to each of the problem that religion "solves):1. The desire to live forever 2. Comfort in believing that we hold a privileged position in the vastness of the universe 3. Not feeling lonely and knowing that there is an omnipotent being who "loves" you, care for you, and will do anything to make you happy 4. Indoctrination You're 0 for 4, in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Yo, I'm a Christian, and if I could chime in, I'd like to respond to a few things in this thread... 1. The desire to live forever Actually, that thought is kind of scary to me. There are times I'm tempted to do bad things, times that I feel guilty for not fully dedicating myself to causes I know I should (like not debating atheists like Esau as thoroughly as I should've), times where I feel sorrow and pain, and even times where I feel lost and confused on what I should do with my life. I don't want to deal with all THAT for all of eternity. Although...now that I think of it, in Heaven, I'll be able to keep eternal life AND be free from all that, so, yeah, I suppose that is a pretty sweet deal. 2. Comfort in believing that we hold a privileged position in the vastness of the universe Nah, so what if you do? Doesn't change the fact that there are things about your life and others that you wish you could change. 3. Not feeling lonely and knowing that there is an omnipotent being who "loves" you, care for you, and will do anything to make you happy This is probably the most valid reason. Yes, I do want to feel like my desire to change the world for the positive, at least in some small way, won't be completely wasted. I do want to believe that I have a source of strength and guidance to turn to when I'm feeling weak, either physically or mentally. Yes, I do want to feel like that I can overcome everything that holds me back, such as my laziness and my inability to concentrate on long projects for protracted periods of time without going on long hiatuses (just ask those who read my reviews of "Avatar: The Last Airbender"). And I do want to feel like I can overcome any temptation to do bad things, even if they do pop into my head. But moreoever, I also feel great sadness for people such as the man who returns from a war only to find that his wife has married another guy, all the women throughout history who were forced into sexual slavery or abusive, unloving relationships, all the victims of Unit 731 during World War II, all the men and women who spend their lives as prisoners, all the people who became callous and twisted not entirely because of any fault of their own, but also partially because there was no one who loved or cared for them, all the people who have to live by and be haunted by being responsible for the things above, all the people who are misled by religious and cultural figures who instruct them in doing wrong, people who feel as though they can never aspire to anything and thwart their own efforts because of it, things like that. I want to believe that these people weren't entirely left on their own, that they had some sense of hope or source of strength, that they had at least some opportunity to live a good life, that they're not doomed to a hopeless situation (well, actually, I suppose the Unit 731 people were basically doomed...but at least most of them probably died a reasonably quick death). So yes, Reason 3 is probably the most valid one, but it's also because I wish that to others. And of course, it's not the only reason I believe in Christianity (though it is probably one of the most powerful ones). 4. Indoctrination Indoctrination? Seriously? I rather like my freedom to live the way I want and think the way I want, thank you very much. There was a time when homosexuality was punishable by death... I do remember reading something to that effect, though I don't remember if it was actually death or not. I guess it's likely it was, considering how harsh the punishments for a lot of crimes seemed to be. Even so, I believe it was following through with a homosexual act, not so much being gay yourself. Yes, I do think there's a difference. For example, many prisoners rape their inmates not because they're gay, but because they're just THAT desperate to have sex with SOMETHING.... http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svpjri0809.pdf ...when woman were not allowed to preach the Christian Gospel... Unless there's some part I haven't gotten to yet, I think I've read basically all of the ancients laws given to the Israelites by Moses, as I've read Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Numbers, and all of that. And there was never any law given by Moses to make this be. That seems to me like more or less a cultural thing. ...when a woman showing more than the skin on her hands and face was considered offensive just because the Bible said so. Same as the above quote. Edited July 13, 2011 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Well, I certainly have no desire to have religion be cast out from the universe. While not a Christian, I do believe in... it's a difficult concept to explain. But I don't think religion needs to or is a bad force. The unfortunate issue is that people in power use it to justify their actions, but anyone can do that with a number of things. I'm certainly not an overly unreasonable person filled with a desire to make other peoples lives miserable because they don't share my beliefs, so it's not really a uniform thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) While not a Christian, I do believe in... it's a difficult concept to explain Perhaps a universal law to govern all things, or some sort of collective conscious? Something like that? Edited July 13, 2011 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Nah. It's closer to... I don't know, Shintoism in a way than anything else. Mostly just a belief in many spirits that occupy the universe, some greater, some not so great, but just... magic all around, in a way. So it's not one omnipotent being, but many beings of various thoughts and feelings, and varying degrees of powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Nah. It's closer to... I don't know, Shintoism in a way than anything else. Mostly just a belief in many spirits that occupy the universe, some greater, some not so great, but just... magic all around, in a way. So it's not one omnipotent being, but many beings of various thoughts and feelings, and varying degrees of powers. Pantheism? That being the belief that everything is divine or God is in everything. Anyway, my thoughts have been brewing about this decline, at least for Christianity, can't speak for other religions. What I'm about to say will undoubtedly have disagreements, but it's what I think: I think the main issue is churches trying to compromise the Bible. Now, I was raised and attend a church that is dedicated to taking the Bible at God's word, and never realized that it was different from a lot of churches. It wasn't until recently that I found out that many churches are trying to compromise the Bible in accord to modern science speculations and political sentiments, perhaps out of fear of being labeled "ignorant" (with evolution or geology) or "bigoted" (with homosexuality and other religions). The main book being derailed seems to be Genesis, by presenting the first 11 chapters as symbolic. Of course, that causes a problem. The main focus of Christianity is the fact Jesus died for our sins. This meaning that we are cleansed from the Sin Curse that each and every one of us are born with. However, it is made clear that this came about from when Adam and Eve sinned. If the creation account in Genesis is merely symbolic, then said curse is symbolic. Why would Jesus die for an abstract concept. It wouldn't take too much thinking for most people to see the conflict right off the bat. Now, at a more basic level, if one can't trust the beginning, how can one trust the middle and end? By taking away the literalness of Genesis, the rest of the Bible is instantly on shaky ground. Then comes school. Most people go to secular state run schools. By middle school or high school, they start to learn evolution presented as fact (I'm a big evolution skeptic, a Young Earth Creationist, if you will) and other things contrary to the Bible. With said shaky ground, it's amazing that anyone that was taught comprised Bible beliefs can make it out with their Christian belief intact. Personally, I believe if churches would stand up and actually teach their congregations on how to defend their faith by taking God's Word at God's word, Christianity overall wouldn't be viewed in such a sorry state as it is currently. Short version: Most churches are becoming chickens when it comes standing up to secular ideas. That causes weak foundations in trusting the Bible. People learn contrary ideas in school. Faith in God gets wrecked. Oh yeah, I know that there will be those who will try to discredit this, here's the website that I've been reading a lot as of late. It makes sense to me, but that's a given since much of my thinking is already on full Bible believing basis. I know that Answers in Genesis is fairly controversial, but try reading the articles before discrediting it as a whack-job site: http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/daily-articles Anyway, that's what I have to say about that. Agree or disagree, it's all up to you! There could be many other reasons to the decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I decline simply because I don't believe humanity as a whole are sinners, and think the Bible as a whole should focus on the core positive concepts. Being against something that harms no one, to me, makes absolutely no sense. And I know that, as far as any spiritual things go, I'm not in the wrong just because of my sexuality. I'm a good person, perhaps not as good as I could be, but still a good person, and just because I like guys doesn't mean I'm bad. I do think that being a bit more organized would help Christianity, since having some people being so extreme while others are more mellow causes people to just focus on the extreme ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I decline simply because I don't believe humanity as a whole are sinners, and think the Bible as a whole should focus on the core positive concepts. Being against something that harms no one, to me, makes absolutely no sense. And I know that, as far as any spiritual things go, I'm not in the wrong just because of my sexuality. I'm a good person, perhaps not as good as I could be, but still a good person, and just because I like guys doesn't mean I'm bad. I do think that being a bit more organized would help Christianity, since having some people being so extreme while others are more mellow causes people to just focus on the extreme ones. Well, one question I'd have to ask is what is good? What is bad? Under our own standard, it could be just about anything. In the Christian perspective, God created the world, so God has full rights to create the rules. As far as sexuality goes, God designed us male and female for a reason. He gave men and women roles, and in His view, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, and other sexual sins is viewed as disobedience to such roles. I guess this is why some try to blame Christianity for sexism, but it seems more like different roles, equal importance. It's just that our society seems to glorify what would be considered male roles. I admit it seems that today's society overall is trying to promote androgyny in the sense that there is little difference between male and female. Obviously, such things don't mean much to those who don't believe in God (as in Jehovah/Yahweh/various other transliterations), so one can't really expect agreement. But, if there is no God, I think that good and bad would be highly subjective. I hope the last paragraph helps you understand Christian thought, well, at least what one would call "fundamentalist" thought. I'm no pastor or Bible expert, so my explanations likely aren't top-notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I understand it, but if God (in a literal Christian sense) had any issues with me, I don't think I'd get such out of the blue and extreme support, which is brought about by issues relating to my sexuality. And I think good is rather easy to explain, doing the best to help the most people while causing the least pain with your actions. But I also know this isn't something we'll ever agree on. But this is why, in general, Christianity is looked at poorly. Because it steps on other peoples right to be who they are, who they were born as, in the name of their religion. And overall there shouldn't be major differences in the roles one does based on gender. It should be their choice if they want to stay at home and help out or go out and do things, or what have you. Personally I'd prefer to be in a more domestic role, since I think my general personality is unsuited for most normal jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Indoctrination? Seriously? I rather like my freedom to live the way I want and think the way I want, thank you very much. So it's just coincidence that 99% of religious people just happen to follow the religion of their parents, or a religion that's prevalent in their culture. Either that, or their upbringing influenced them to pick their religion over the many other alternatives. Personally, I think the second is more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I find it hard to believe I'm in a 1% minority. I don't even think my sexuality is that small of a percentage all in all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Personally I'd prefer to be in a more domestic role, since I think my general personality is unsuited for most normal jobs. Why not try being a nurse then? I mean, you also need to learn some aspects of medicine and treating the sick, but I would think someone suited for domestic life is suited to be a nurse in terms of personality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Eh, want to be a counselor. Contemplated medical in some way, but... I think it'd get to me rather badly. And I think I can help people emotionally best of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I decline simply because I don't believe humanity as a whole are sinners, and think the Bible as a whole should focus on the core positive concepts. But it does focus on that to. There are plenty of times where God tells of how his servants where, and Proverbs talks much about the best of humanity as well as the worst of it. It's not just one big guilt trip, it's also a book of the promises God will grant one if they are faithful (and no, these promises do not exclude people who have had no opportunity to learn of God. I forget the exact verse this is mentioned in, but I'll tell you when I find it). Being against something that harms no one, to me, makes absolutely no sense. What are you referring to when you say that? Your sexuality? And I know that, as far as any spiritual things go, I'm not in the wrong just because of my sexuality. Of course not. If you're simply born that way, that isn't your fault. But, isn't there a risk of STD's when two men have sex? Now, that might not count for simple oral sex, but, I'm not totally sure of that either. If I'm correct though, isn't that a very good practical reason for homosexuality being wrong? Of course, if you're partner is willing to take that risk, that's his own business, but I'm not going to say I condone it. I'm a good person, perhaps not as good as I could be, but still a good person, and just because I like guys doesn't mean I'm bad.... Two things that catch my eye... The part you have in bold. If you're admitting that there's some area where you could try harder to be a good person, then aren't you admitting that you have faults? That's what being a "sinner" is. You don't have to be twirling a handlebar mustache sipping tacquila while cursing out your wife and slapping around your children to be considered a "sinner". "Sin" translated literally, means "missing the mark", you're not doing things perfectly. It is because of this that even good people sometimes do bad things, and ultimately fall short of perfection. I mean, let's say there's this guy who's just like Martin Luther King Jr., and he fights for the rights of all the opressed minorities for completely noble reasons. BUT, he just happens to have lustful thoughts for other women other than his wife occasionally. Well, that means he's a sinner. That's not to say that his bad qualities outweigh the good, but he's a sinner. In short, technically being a "sinner", just means you're not perfect. And even if the fact that you have harmful sexual leanings makes you evil...well, guess what? Pretty much 95% percent of the plaent is in the exact same boat, whether they're gay or not. The Bible pretty much all but says that sex before marriage is wrong (technically, one of the Old Testament laws says something along the lines of "unless her father is unwilling to allow it, you need to marry the girl you had sex with before marriage and never divorce her no matter what, for you have violated her...seems like a pretty clear indication that it's wrong to me.), yet I'm pretty sure that's something most people either have, or are going to screw up on (not all though. I'm hoping to be one of those guys). So if you happen to be evil, and I don't think you are simply because of your sexuality, but if you are....well then, so's basically almost everyone on the planet, so we as a people are hardly in any position to judge you. But this is why, in general, Christianity is looked at poorly. Because it steps on other peoples right to be who they are, who they were born as, in the name of their religion. No it doesn't. You still have perfect freedom to do whatever you want. Just don't expect to be able to do harmful things without suffering the consequences for that. And overall there shouldn't be major differences in the roles one does based on gender. The Bible doesn't say there should be. All it asks of women is that they be submissive to their husbands, but even that goes both ways, for it asks in that same passage for men to love their wives and care for them. The last Proverb paints the picture it paints of what the best example of a woman is is one who is industrious, well spoken, wise, resourceful, trustworthy, and compassionate. I suppose there is one brief section in the New Testament where one of the writers says something to the effect of "women should be totally silent in the Church so as to show submissiveness", but, that was simply the word of a human writer, so, I suppose you might have a point there, but I always took that as one of the outdated train of thought of one of the writers of the Bible, not some God-given decree by the LORD himself. Like how Paul seems so nervous about the concept of marriage and sex, probably because he never married, and didn't seem to have the sexual urges that most men had. It should be their choice if they want to stay at home and help out or go out and do things, or what have you. I do to. If anything was holding them down, it was the culture they lived in, not God's teachings. Personally I'd prefer to be in a more domestic role, since I think my general personality is unsuited for most normal jobs. That's cool. Edited July 14, 2011 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I think not being perfect is different from being a sinner. And no, if both guys are clean, it's fine. It can spread regardless of ones sexual orientation. But yes, I'm talking about the majority of hardcore Christians against me just because I'm gay. And in regards to the Bible, was saying that so often people focus on the things people aren't doing, and could focus more on just trying to focus on positive things people are doing. Though, of course, I think being perfect is something that, while possible, also shouldn't be held against someone. Guess to me someone being a sinner involves actively trying to make someone's life worse in some way, whereas not being perfect simply means making mistakes and such. Difference being the intentions, if nothing else. Edited July 14, 2011 by Mirron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Hm, I added in more to my previous post, so, there's more for you to read, if you want. I think not being perfect is different from being a sinner. I think the mental disconnect sort of comes from the image we have of sinners. See, you think of sinners as people who actively do bad things, right? Well, that's not the Biblical viewpoint on it. A sinner is someone who isn't perfectly righteous and good. And no, if both guys are clean, it's fine. It can spread regardless of ones sexual orientation. But yes, I'm talking about the majority of hardcore Christians against me just because I'm gay. Well, the Bible calls on us to not judge harshly, or we will be harshly judged ourselves (I believe this is said in Acts). So don't get the wrong idea about God's motivations. He came to save, not to punish. Still, I'm confused. I was always under the impression that when a man and a woman had sex, STD's could only come into existence if the woman either had sex with multiple different men in a short timespan, or contracted it from a man who got it. Am I mistaken? And in regards to the Bible, was saying that so often people focus on the things people aren't doing, and could focus more on just trying to focus on positive things people are doing. God promises to do this as long as one is humble about their shortcomings. For example, he still remembers David fondly for how much he loved God and did his best to serve him, despite the fact that there was a time in his life where he ordered a married woman to have sex with her, then murdered her husband to cover it up (that's not to say God was happy about what he did. In fact, he basically made the rest of his life hell on Earth for what he did). Though, of course, I think being perfect is something that, while possible, also shouldn't be held against someone. Guess to me someone being a sinner involves actively trying to make someone's life worse in some way, whereas not being perfect simply means making mistakes and such. Difference being the intentions, if nothing else. Well, I'm just saying, that's not the definition of what a sinner is according to it's literal definition, therefore, you're viewpoint is not what the Bible means by sinner. So, therefore, rejecting it on the grounds that "not everyone is a sinner", is logically incorrect because you're basically saying that there are people who are perfect in every way and have never ever done evil, missed an opportunity to do good, or have ever thought a thought that wasn't completely and utterly pure, which is obviously false. Edited July 14, 2011 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) And therein lies my issue, since I think sinner is a more harsh word than should be used. Expecting perfection seems rather unfair to me. And I'm not sure where STD's come from per say, it just seems to be an anomaly. Not tied to any one gender really. But if both partners are clean to the best of my knowledge nothing comes of it. As you said, are issue comes from the, if nothing else, choice of words. I don't expect or think everyone is perfect. But I think getting disappointed or expecting it from people is silly. Expecting people to do the best they can is the most important part of it all. If they don't, so be it. But calling them a sinner, to me, implies they did a gratuitous affront to the universe. Edited July 14, 2011 by Mirron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) And therein lies my issue, since I think sinner is a more harsh word than should be used. Expecting perfection seems rather unfair to me. God doesn't expect perfection. He never intended us to be judged under that system, which was why he made Adam and Eve without ever building within them the knowledge of good and evil (or at least, I'm assuming that's why he did that). But then Adam and Eve disobeyed his orders, recieved the knowledge of good and evil, and screwed all that up. That's the whole point of God trying to help us. He knows we're literally incapable of living up to the standards we need to live up to in order to be with him in Heaven, so he sacrificed Jesus to carry all of those sins and imperfections with us, so that there wouldn't be any barrier between us and him, as long as we don't reject his help.... As for why we can't just be with him right now? Well, because he wants us to have the freedom to make that choice. So I think that's why all the pain and tribulation of life is necessary for us humans to go through. And I'm not sure where STD's come from per say, it just seems to be an anomaly. Not tied to any one gender really. But if both partners are clean to the best of my knowledge nothing comes of it. I see. Edited July 14, 2011 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Eh, it feels like he does, but whatever. I suppose this is just a way in which we don't agree. Though, really, I'd rather have the knowledge of good and evil. If I'm not being evil because I don't know about it, I feel it somewhat cheapens the point of it all. Choosing good, to me, signifies much more importance, at least to me. But, again, just ways in which we differ. All in all, at the very least you don't seem to be someone who is overly religious to the point that everything that doesn't agree with you is bad. I feel Christianity offers a lot of good points, like any religion just about, but the issue is that people use it to justify negative actions, instead of using it as a basis for positive actions. I'd much rather be on Earth than just in Heaven. I feel the somewhat chaotic nature of it all is good. Yes, there is bad, but I'd rather work on getting everyone to do good than just be in a pure and perfect place. Also find perfection removes a lot of the fun of differences. The flaws... they're what make humans human. Striving to overcome them, failing at times, but always trying to make the best difference... it's that which means a lot to me. Edited July 14, 2011 by Mirron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Eh, it feels like he does, but whatever. I suppose this is just a way in which we don't agree. He's not expecting perfection, it's just that perfection is what's needed to enter Heaven, or at least that's what would've been needed had he not had Jesus die for our sins. That's the ultimate point of the Christian story, that God loves us so much that he's willing to allow us into Heaven, despite our imperfections. Remember, though God is capable of terrible wrath, he's a loving god first and foremost. Though, really, I'd rather have the knowledge of good and evil. If I'm not being evil because I don't know about it, I feel it somewhat cheapens the point of it all. Choosing good, to me, signifies much more importance, at least to me. I suppose that's one way of looking at it. Personally, I'dve just liked to chill and hang out at Heaven in the arms of the beautiful woman God would've made for me so that I wouldn't be lonely, all without having to suffer any problems or temptations or any nagging regrets that I'm harming people through my inaction, or any of that. But, I have a job to do first, things to learn, places to be, things to do, so unfortunately, unless God plans on me dieing sometime soon, I'll just have to wait on that. But, again, just ways in which we differ. All in all, at the very least you don't seem to be someone who is overly religious to the point that everything that doesn't agree with you is bad. I feel Christianity offers a lot of good points, like any religion just about, but the issue is that people use it to justify negative actions, instead of using it as a basis for positive actions. I agree with you on how Christianity has been abused. I just want you to know that those are ultimately perversions of what Christianity is all about. I mean, I'm not a pacifist, I do believe violence is sometimes necessary for say protecting your loved ones, rescuing sex trafficking victims, foiling the plans of people like Hitler and all of that. But for the most part, all those bloody conflicts where nations have gone in to annihlate native lands and all of that are not condoned by the Bible. Yes, there was a time in Exodus where Moses led his army to completely annihlate whole nations, but that was with God's direct orders and guidance, and was only targetted at the nations filled with nothing but pure evil. Edited July 14, 2011 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirron Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think death as a whole is something that should be avoided. People can't begin to make amends if they caused any problems if they're killed, and a constant cycle of death doesn't make anything better. I'd have an immensely hard time defending myself if it weren't for the simple fact that there are people that need me. Well, that sounds better. Guess for me sins always, to me, implies much much worse, though of course that's partially caused by just the general nature of the way it's used. And I think oddly, I realize this. But... I don't want perfection. I think a lot like Yune does, but in the end I want something like Ashera wants, a world free of violence and suffering (just... not by wiping everyone out), using RD as a parallel to it all. I value the struggles that humanity makes to be better. Sometimes they don't do so well, but in the end, I believe they can make something truly wonderful, and each person has the capacity for so much good. So being in Heaven... well, as well, there are people here who need me. And people I need who are here. Plus, if the afterlife is eternal, or even just significantly longer than my life here, then I'd rather get as much out of my time here than go on to something that will be so much longer. Oh, I know that. No religion really wants to cause problems. People just use the parts that support what they want, missing the entire point. In the end, I can't think of a religion that is truly about harming people, it's all about trying to make things better. They may have different beliefs in how to make people better, but I feel all of them just hold a piece of the overall puzzle. I just wish more Christians would realize this. That just because you aren't Christian doesn't make you bad, and some things, just because they're in the Bible, aren't necessarily the clear cut way. I think honoring the spirit of the Bible, and not the literal word of it, is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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