Buffing the Main Lords?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

from what i've gathered over the years, Hector seems perfectly fine, but people have issues with how Eliwood and Lyn preform.

how would you guys improve them without "breaking" them?

[Elieson]

Lyn +2 base hp &str. Sol.katti 7 wt, and

Eliwood, +1 all stats, and 6 mov.

[Thor Odinson]

Give Lyn something better than lol base 2 defense.

[Shadow Mir]

Make Durandal and the Sol Katti actually worth using (AKA, decrease their weight, because 16 and 14 wt slaughter their respective wielders' AS values. Also, make the Sol Katti stronger.).

Edited December 6, 2011 by Metal King Slime

[Parrhesia]

I'm fine with Lyn, but buff her more for people that understandably didn't go through the painful hell of Lyn Mode.

Eliwood

20 HP (he has like 18 IIRC)

7 Str

10 Skl

7 Spd

7 Lck

6 Def

2 Res

Maybe a 60-use Rapier?

This Eliwood differentiates himself from the myrms by being tankier and more balanced overall. And still has the shit kicked out of him by much of the cast, but still, a lord SHOULD be one of the better units in the game, COUGHroyCOUGH.

And yeah, Armads/Durandal/Sol Katti should all be powerful weapons.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Furetchen

[Shadow Mir]

And yeah, Armads/Durandal/Sol Katti should all be powerful weapons.

Armads is okay as-is, but Durandal and the Sol Katti are not.

[Thor Odinson]

12-wt Durandal ala FE6 is actually quite nice. This way Eliwood takes only 3 AS off versus a whooping 7. I mean, it is a pretty big sword, so making it lightweight doesn't make sense, but 12 shows the size of the weapon without murdering Eliwood's speed too badly.

Sol Katti doesn't even LOOK heavy. 14 is ridiculous.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[MacLovin]

How2 'bout Giving Eliwood better growths and Bases, as well as a lighter Durendal.

Lyn just needs higher def, str, and res growths+bases.

And a lighter Sol Katti.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Fun Fact, Eliwood and Roy have the same Base stats and similar growth rates in everything.

Eliwood beats Roy in defense,resistance,and STR by 5%

Roy beats Eliwood in Luck by 15%

[General Horace]

Making Durandal and Sol Katti better aren't going to make the other Lord's worth using. They're hardly avaliable at all.

3x effectiveness would help them not take counterattacks, and improving on the Rapier's MT would help too, since it is incredibly bad. It's not like it would make the Wolf Beil much better anyway. Adding some base HP/Def to Lyn and some base strength to Eliwood would be a start too.

[13th]

For Eliwood

+1 in all stats. Rapier with 1 more Mt. Replace Eliwood with Ephraim

[Florete]

Honestly, I don't believe Lyn needs any offensive buffing. Mani Katti is really good and by the time that breaks she should be able to use regular weapons reasonably well. Florina support is also very fast and helpful (full atk and critical) for both. As for Sol Katti, that's one map, and by then she should still be doubling most enemies anyway, iirc. What she needs is defensive buffing. +10% HP growth with +1-2 HP base and +2 Def base is what I'd go for.

I've changed my opinions of a lot of characters over the years, but Lyn is one of the few where my view has remained pretty constant. As long as you go through Lyn mode and get her to a reasonable level, she should be a pretty good unit.

Eliwood needs minor buffing all around. I've always felt he was slightly short in all areas, making him very short all around. A bit more Str and Spd in particular would be good.

[Shadow Mir]

Honestly, I don't believe Lyn needs any offensive buffing. Mani Katti is really good and by the time that breaks she should be able to use regular weapons reasonably well. Florina support is also very fast and helpful (full atk and critical) for both. As for Sol Katti, that's one map, and by then she should still be doubling most enemies anyway, iirc. What she needs is defensive buffing. +10% HP growth with +1-2 HP base and +2 Def base is what I'd go for.

I've changed my opinions of a lot of characters over the years, but Lyn is one of the few where my view has remained pretty constant. As long as you go through Lyn mode and get her to a reasonable level, she should be a pretty good unit.

Eliwood needs minor buffing all around. I've always felt he was slightly short in all areas, making him very short all around. A bit more Str and Spd in particular would be good.

I agree with most of what you say, though even if Sol Katti's only one map, it's so terrible that it's practically unusable (or at the least, not worth using. Double 8s to the dragon, assuming Lyn's Strength is capped, is just terrible).

Edited December 6, 2011 by Metal King Slime

[arvilino]

Considering the Rapier is weaker than the Wolf Beil and all around worse than the Mani-Katti. If they made an exception and gave it 3x effective might(as opposed to the 2x for everything in the localised versions) I could see that making Eliwood pretty useful.

[Thor Odinson]

Even though Durandal and Sol Katti are one-map only, it'd still be nice if Eliwood and Lyn could be not so useless against the dragon for those who wish to use them there, seeing that they are, after all, the lords.

[Florete]

I agree with most of what you say, though even if Sol Katti's only one map, it's so terrible that it's practically unusable (or at the least, not worth using. Double 8s to the dragon, assuming Lyn's Strength is capped, is just terrible).

Lyn pretty much single-handedly handled (that was a mouthful) the Dragon on my S rank HHM run with the Sol Katti. Florina support is pretty awesome.

But PEMN.

But it's not like there are many characters that can do reasonable damage to the Dragon, anyway. Lyn can really take a chunk out with some crit luck while most units are doing single digit damage, if any. It's only, like, Athos and Canas that can do really good damage reliably.

[zahlman]

Making Durandal and Sol Katti better aren't going to make the other Lord's worth using. They're hardly avaliable at all.

No, but it would still make things seem more right. As is, Hector is the only lord ever worth considering using against the Dragon, when the whole apparent point of the game is to get all of the lords to the point where they can work together to fight the final battle. I mean, why else would you have three lords?

3x effectiveness would help them not take counterattacks, and improving on the Rapier's MT would help too, since it is incredibly bad. It's not like it would make the Wolf Beil much better anyway.

Yes yes yes yes yes.

Adding some base HP/Def to Lyn and some base strength to Eliwood would be a start too.

As bad as Lyn's HP/Def is, I honestly don't feel like she needs a bunch more. She's supposed to dodge attacks, not take them. I mean it's good if a random 12% hit doesn't OHKO her, but beyond that it's just not that big of a deal IMO. I guess a little more would be good, though. Eliwood could use Def more than Str I think, especially if we're improving the Rapier.

I also kiiiiiiinda like the idea of the +1 mov for Eliwood, as weird as it sounds. Honestly I think Eliwood needs significantly more of a buff than Lyn does.

But it's not like there are many characters that can do reasonable damage to the Dragon, anyway.

And adding Lyn and Eliwood to that list would really help, style-wise if not gameplay-wise. Since Sol Katti has only 12 Mt, without those support bonuses you need like 20/7 Lyn (or less with Energy Rings obviously) just to scratch instead of tinking. Whereas 20/10 Armads!Hector is doing the same damage as Aureola!Athos (and an average 20/20 Hector is actually close to doubling; 20/12 Lyn doubles, for comparison).

Edited December 6, 2011 by zahlman

[Shadow Mir]

Lyn pretty much single-handedly handled (that was a mouthful) the Dragon on my S rank HHM run with the Sol Katti. Florina support is pretty awesome.

But PEMN.

But it's not like there are many characters that can do reasonable damage to the Dragon, anyway. Lyn can really take a chunk out with some crit luck while most units are doing single digit damage, if any. It's only, like, Athos and Canas that can do really good damage reliably.

Maybe, but I can't help but see Hector as the only lord that doesn't suck against the dragon. While Lyn can do something IF she crits, it's the fact her non-crit damage output stinks that makes her no use against the thing.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Metal King Slime

[Anouleth]

I've always felt that Lyn and Eliwood are kind of... good enough as they are. Maybe Eliwood could get 8 move on promotion, though. 7 move horses just annoy me, and a minor buff wouldn't be so bad for him.

[Florete]

Maybe, but I can't help but see Hector as the only lord that doesn't suck against the dragon. While Lyn can do something IF she crits, it's the fact her non-crit damage output stinks that makes her no use against the thing.

Train Lyn, get her an A with Florina, then pit her against the Dragon. At max Skl she'll reach 30 crit against the Dragon and with 23 Str (a little high, perhaps, but easy numbers) that adds up to 10 damage per hit, which means one crit + normal hit takes a third of the Dragon's HP in one round. By my calculations, Hector can do better if he doubles (At 30 Str Hector is doing 26 damage a hit to the Dragon with Armads. He needs 22 Spd to double (slightly above 20/20 average)), but that's hardly bad when you consider how few characters can actually do much to the Dragon.

As for not critting, max Str Hector does 26 damage per hit and the above Lyn would do 20 damage in one round. Not much difference. If your Lyn is Str and crit screwed, sure, you have a problem then, but she's still more reliable in general than a lot of other characters.

[zahlman]

Train Lyn, get her an A with Florina, then pit her against the Dragon. At max Skl she'll reach 30 crit against the Dragon and with 23 Str (a little high, perhaps, but easy numbers) that adds up to 10 damage per hit, which means one crit + normal hit takes a third of the Dragon's HP in one round. By my calculations, Hector can do better if he doubles (At 30 Str Hector is doing 26 damage a hit to the Dragon with Armads. He needs 22 Spd to double (slightly above 20/20 average)), but that's hardly bad when you consider how few characters can actually do much to the Dragon.

As for not critting, max Str Hector does 26 damage per hit and the above Lyn would do 20 damage in one round. Not much difference. If your Lyn is Str and crit screwed, sure, you have a problem then, but she's still more reliable in general than a lot of other characters.

20/20 Lyn averages 21 Str, whereas Hector will actually average 30 Str at 20/20 (I'm rounding obviously). 30% crit = x1.6 damage on average, so with 21 str and doubling she indeed gets 26 per round. But this requires her to get those supports and catch up quite a bit. Hector is doing signficant (14!) damage from 20/1 unsupported and unboosted, and already (barely) avoids getting doubled. We're also ignoring any possible small crit chances on Hector's part (although I imagine that doesn't add up to anything significant).

Edited December 6, 2011 by zahlman

[Florete]

20/20 Lyn averages 21 Str, whereas Hector will actually average 30 Str at 20/20 (I'm rounding obviously). 30% crit = x1.6 damage on average, so with 21 str and doubling she indeed gets 26 per round. But this requires her to get those supports and catch up quite a bit. Hector is doing signficant (14!) damage from 20/1 unsupported and unboosted, and already (barely) avoids getting doubled. We're also ignoring any possible small crit chances on Hector's part (although I imagine that doesn't add up to anything significant).

Okay. I wasn't arguing that Lyn is definitely better, just that she's generally not much worse (especially compared to 90% of the cast) and can reasonably do better with some luck. Getting those supports is not hard (Lyn x Florina is the fastest pairing in the game) and as long as you do Lyn mode there's not even much "catching up" to speak of, plus she can promote sooner than Hector in HNM or HHM.

The real point at the end of the day is that Lyn will only really be terrible against the Dragon if you neglect her or she's highly unlucky.

Hector won't be getting any crit against the Dragon; Armads has none and his Skl will only get him 12 capped while the Dragon has 24 Lck. Eliwood is his only reasonable support and an A will only get him 7 more, still 6 crit short of having even 1 displayed crit.

[riariadne]

Filla's might also exists, making a crit twice as deadly.

The Lyn you mentioned can actually ORKO dragon with double crits. That's not bad.

[Baldrick]

Eliwood could do with some more base str, and a buffed Rapier. Lyn should be a few levels higher if you don't go to her mode.

[Shadow Mir]

Train Lyn, get her an A with Florina, then pit her against the Dragon. At max Skl she'll reach 30 crit against the Dragon and with 23 Str (a little high, perhaps, but easy numbers) that adds up to 10 damage per hit, which means one crit + normal hit takes a third of the Dragon's HP in one round. By my calculations, Hector can do better if he doubles (At 30 Str Hector is doing 26 damage a hit to the Dragon with Armads. He needs 22 Spd to double (slightly above 20/20 average)), but that's hardly bad when you consider how few characters can actually do much to the Dragon.

As for not critting, max Str Hector does 26 damage per hit and the above Lyn would do 20 damage in one round. Not much difference. If your Lyn is Str and crit screwed, sure, you have a problem then, but she's still more reliable in general than a lot of other characters.

Granted, outside of the lords, Athos and Canas, pretty much the whole cast is irrelevant against the dragon, but Lyn just can't hold a candle to the other four in terms of damaging it...

Edited December 7, 2011 by Metal King Slime