Junkhead Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What is this about people giving a unit that can almost solo Part 1 and 3 a 7. 2-ranged enemies are only a problem at 3-12 and Part 4. 8.8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 What is this about people giving a unit that can almost solo Part 1 and 3 a 7. 2-ranged enemies are only a problem at 3-12 and Part 4. 8.8 Its because this isnt efficiency. Different environment. Volug is worse at turncounts by himself. Sure, he is an amazing unit still, but he does struggle to pull good turncounts in some maps because of the flaws we have mentioned. And you are wrong, 2 range haunts him in 1-8 too depending on what his role in the chapter is. If he takes the west, he definetely has trouble pulling a 4 turn without massive help from someone else. There's also 1-E but that isnt as bad as 1-8 for non-2 rangers. Then, there are his obvious flaws in 3-6 that prevent him from doing too much. A 7 turn might even be impossible there with volug due to gauge but im not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Its because this isnt efficiency. Different environment. Volug is worse at turncounts by himself. Sure, he is an amazing unit still, but he does struggle to pull good turncounts in some maps because of the flaws we have mentioned. And you are wrong, 2 range haunts him in 1-8 too depending on what his role in the chapter is. If he takes the west, he definetely has trouble pulling a 4 turn without massive help from someone else. There's also 1-E but that isnt as bad as 1-8 for non-2 rangers. Then, there are his obvious flaws in 3-6 that prevent him from doing too much. A 7 turn might even be impossible there with volug due to gauge but im not sure. Volug won't have problems 4 turning 1-8 if he goes west and if there's someone else in charged of the norhtern part. There are two Elthunder mages, a Javelin soldier and a priest, 4 enemies that can be dealt in those 4 turns. You only need him to get near the thickets of the bandit that's going to kill a green unit. With that strategy Miccy can handle south and Sothe the east. Volug is right behind Sothe for Part 1. Nice durability and nice bases, his growths are lolful so BEXP comes handy for him. His durability can have issues in 1-E where he's exposed to tons of archers, mages and armoreds. He easily gets to S strike by 1-8 or 1-E, so his Part 3 won't be so painful. I don't know how recommendable it is, in terms of shaving turns, to give him a mix of Adept + Resolve (for better untransformed performance) + Wrath + Olivi Grass for P3. Miccy won't be needing Resolve for 3-6 since she'll be in good bio + chapter affinity. The lack of 2 range becomes even more painful in Part 4, yet, he's a good choice as DBer. 8.5/10 Edited January 11, 2012 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Miccy wont always be in good bio in 3-6. It all depends on how fast you do Part 1. Also, you proved my point on volug in 1-8. He NEEDS someone to handle the north enemies like you said. Because, otherwise they will keep following him and u will never complete his portion of the map before Sothe is done in the east. He needs you to draft another supplementary DB in order to perform well in that map. Just saying, I find that to be a weakness. Edited January 11, 2012 by PKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Its because this isnt efficiency. Different environment. Volug is worse at turncounts by himself. Sure, he is an amazing unit still, but he does struggle to pull good turncounts in some maps because of the flaws we have mentioned. And you are wrong, 2 range haunts him in 1-8 too depending on what his role in the chapter is. If he takes the west, he definetely has trouble pulling a 4 turn without massive help from someone else. There's also 1-E but that isnt as bad as 1-8 for non-2 rangers. Then, there are his obvious flaws in 3-6 that prevent him from doing too much. A 7 turn might even be impossible there with volug due to gauge but im not sure. Low turncounts is basically the whole definition of effeciency. We don't take unnecessary time to finish maps and distribute our resources optimally. And unless anyone is stupid enough to send him to the LHS at 1-8, there isn't a problem. He shouldn't even be taking that side. Ever. He's taking the South because there's only one 2-range enemy there. Micaiah should be the one handling the LHS. 1-E isn't a problem because Volug shouldn't be handling the area that has the most 2-range (Jarod's lair), because that is BK's job. A 7-turn at 3-6 is actually more feasible with Volug because of his better Mov. You have enough Olivi Grass for that chapter. The point is, a 7 is too low for a First-Round pick unit. It kills your turncounts to not have him around in Part 1. :/ But that's your opinion, so it's okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) 5 turning 1-2 is possible with only one of nolan or Eddy +miccy and sothe. But i think its far too hard to get thani... (not like you seriously need thani because lack of thani doesn't hurt too much, but its always nice to have it...). 1-1 can also be 5 turned with eddy i believe, but you need some dodges, and wrath i think. Two valid points, though I think thani is actually pretty important. If nothing else, it allows her to break through an armor and the boss in 1-3, one round the armors in 1-6, and it helps to not have to give her a maxed out forge when Sothe is blowing through iron knife forges and you probably have another DB who also wants a forge. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine 5 turning 1-1 with just Eddy and Miccy without massive wrath abuse, and we can't really assume that for the same reason we are not assuming Micaiah has 20 speed by 1-8. Anyway, Volug. He's definitely one of those units who gets "worse" in drafts, though he is obviously still very good. I think his part 1 woes are exaggerated. 1-5 is a feeding ground for strike, while 1-7 and 1-E are seize chapters, where his 9 move helps a lot. I'm pretty sure he can handle the left side of 1-8 in four turns as long as he can one round the enemies, which will require the energy drop and/or S-strike. He's obviously excellent in 3-6 and 3-13 with an abundance of 1-range, while his only real pitfalls are 3-12 and part 4. Also makes excellent use of the energy drop/dracoshield. 8.5/10 Edited January 11, 2012 by Overlord Zetta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Volug's average is 8.0. Day 11: Jill Pros: Flight. Great growths and they are also allocated really well. Grows quickly into a powerhouse that doesnt die. Axes. Her flight really helps in Part 3's DB maps allowing her to 2 turn Ch 3-12 with boots (being the only one other than Tauroneo to accomplish that but loltauroneo). Has a great Part 4 and Endgame. IS a great candidate for Boots if drafted. Cons: Shaky bases, especially str. Low hp str and def bases means you NEED to save the dracoshield for her, a robe and get the 1-2 energy drop. Her def growth is a bit shaky and might get screwed, severely limiting how much amount of EP she can take in 3-6. She does not exist in 1-8! I give her an 9/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Her Def base is pretty good, actually. It's on par with Zihark and Volug's, and only one point less than Sothe's. It's her base HP that's itching her. I give her an 8.5. She's a good first round pick, but I still wouldn't pick her over Edward and Nolan even under the current penalty system. Oh yeah, don't forget her absence in 1-8. Edited January 12, 2012 by Jigglypuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 8.5/10. It's freaking Jill. I don't think I need to say much. -.5 points for not existing in 1-8. >_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 8/10. She's kinda mediocre with those bases and the growths only start kicking in after promotion( well, BEXP may help, but eh.) She's kinda useless in 1-7 because her str- movt, is taken away from her. Then she does'nt exist in 1-8. Then endgame and she still suffers movt penalties. Now she starts to blossom only in part 3, but good luck getting her that training, especially with such bases. She's still good and a better pick than Zihark/Meg/Fiona and maybe even Aran. Actually yes, Aran. I'd still pick Edward, Nolan, Volug and Nailah over her. She's like.. the fourth best pick, so yeah(I'd tie her with nailah. Nailah gives you some firepower in the end of part 1 an you can use minimum units in Ike's group in Part 4. Jill on the other hand can give some good firepower for the DB in part 3.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciarre Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 8.2/10 I don't have much to say, because it's late and I'm tired so there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 She's kinda useless in 1-7 because her str- movt, is taken away from her. Not really. She saves you a turn at 1-7 if she's promoted. She's still good and a better pick than Zihark/Meg/Fiona and maybe even Aran. Actually yes, Aran. I'd still pick Edward, Nolan, Volug and Nailah over her. She's like.. the fourth best pick, so yeah(I'd tie her with nailah. Nailah gives you some firepower in the end of part 1 an you can use minimum units in Ike's group in Part 4. Jill on the other hand can give some good firepower for the DB in part 3.) How is Nailah better than Jill? Does Nailah help you clear 1-6-1, 5-turn 1-7 and later help you a ton at Part 3 and 4? Nevermind that Nailah does help you alot in Part 4, but Jill flies and has 2-range. A great advantage against Nailah. Jill is honestly pretty decent, even in 1-E and bearing those Mov penalties. She can 1HKO Knights and maybe even ferry Micaiah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Jill flies and fliers shave a lot of turns in drafts, she's solid right off the bat although i've never used her I can tell she's a great unit. I give her a 9.5/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Jill's a pretty nice unit. If you have Leo's Draco, Rafiel's Robe and the 1-2 Drop, and you haven't given it to somebody else, have Jill use them because it's for sure a great investment. Her bases can be fixed, specially str, skill and def, cause you won't worry about her sp. I haven't used her in drafts but in a casual playthrough. She's a good candidate for the Silver Route and can shave a couple of turns. Boots + Flight 9/10 Edited January 12, 2012 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Jill gets a 9.5/10 because she flies and has a red ponytail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Also a 9.5/10, she gets axes, flies and is all around amazing in parts 3 and 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not really. She saves you a turn at 1-7 if she's promoted. How is Nailah better than Jill? Does Nailah help you clear 1-6-1, 5-turn 1-7 and later help you a ton at Part 3 and 4? Nevermind that Nailah does help you alot in Part 4, but Jill flies and has 2-range. A great advantage against Nailah. Jill is honestly pretty decent, even in 1-E and bearing those Mov penalties. She can 1HKO Knights and maybe even ferry Micaiah. 1. Duly Noted 2. READ: She's tied with Nailah. I didnt say Nailah was better than Jill. Nailah still helps a lot in 1-8 where Jill doesnt exist and Nailah helps in 1-E too. Nevermind that you have to feed Jill BEXP immediately when she joins. But they're both about the same because they both help a lot and their str and cons kinda fit with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Jill's average is 8.8. Day 12: Zihark Pros: Joins promoted. Has great offense and decent durability from the get go. Good growths. Can promote before 3-6 to make Part 3 DB a cakewalk. Makes great use of Resolve. Stays solid throughout the game. Cons: Low defense growth + only a decent base might give him some durability problems later on. Str growth is shaky. Loses on availability to other DBs, so he is an afterthought to some of the other DBs in a draft. Troublesome 2 range. I give Zihark an 8.5/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 8/10 He has a solid start, but starts becoming worse than Jill as the chapters go by. Still gets an 8 because he's a solid prepromo for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 8 Reasons above basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Resolveshark . Make him an Adeptbot 8.5/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Draft is the only time where I would ever take Edward over Zihark. He's still got good bases and solid growths, but is weakened by the draft environment. He's got a tougher time making using of his affinity, and as I learned with Mia, wind edges suck for 2 range. His part 4 is fine but unimpressive. 8/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciarre Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 8/10 He's solid, but he misses out on a few chapters of availability compared to Edward/Nolan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 8/10. Like said, solid stats in exchange for slight loss of availability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Day 12: Zihark Pros: Joins promoted. Has great offense and decent durability from the get go. Good growths. Can promote before 3-6 to make Part 3 DB a cakewalk. Makes great use of Resolve. Stays solid throughout the game. Zihark's growths aren't really good. His HP growth kinda sucks, his Str Luck growths are below average, his Def growth sucks, and his Res growth is probably average. The only great growths he has is his Spd and Skill. I'll give him and 8.5. Note the .5 is out of bias, considering he's one of my favorite draftees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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