Rate the Unit, Day 34: Louise

[dondon151]

super hot 3/10

but not as hot as cecilia ?_?

[Lord Raven]

more super hot than cecilia 6/10 (i dont like blondes and i think she's *really* hot)

Bow lock sucks in this game, didn't you hear... unless you're Rath, where it still sucks but it's not too bad. at least she's got something

[Frosty]

Another decent prepromote in this game.

Auto-A support with Pent ensures +DEF like said before; and a nice sliver of critical rate is okay. Offenses; well she has meh STR, but good SPD; and I can bet she can have a ball with the Flyer spam that is HHM.

And also... A-rank in Bows means she can use Killer Bow, Silver Bow and Brave Bow right off the bat; and that is way better than raising the likes such as the other three archers in this game. Problem is... She has competition if you're bringing Geitz.

Verdict?

6.5

[frat_tastic]

3.5/10.

Decent stats, bow-locked, comes late.

[Geriba]

3.5/10.

Decent stats, bow-locked, comes late.

this to a T

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

6/10. She's pretty much (imo) inferior to the other two archers from her point of joining if you trained them. She loses by like 4 STR to 20/1 Wil and ~2.5 STR to 20/1 Rebecca at base, and both Beccy and Wil have enough SPD to double just about every normal enemy past promotion; she loses to 20/1 Rath by ~4.5 STR, but I seperate him because he's less likely to be promoted at this time (with equal effort exerted as Wil or Rebecca). However, she has the whole "pick up and go" and "A support w/ Pent WHAT" thing, so that bumps her back to around their scores.

She's a hell of a lot more durable than Rebecca/Wil/Rath will ever be.

20/1 Rath (20/1 Wil has very similar durabilities; Wil has more DEF, Rath has more HP/RES) has 2 DEF/10 HP over base Louise, and only loses RES by 4. 20/1 Rebecca roughly ties her durability. What do you mean by this?

EDIT: Before you go on about how I mentioned Wil again, I am comparing Louise to all similar characters to put her in context. I did a similar thing with Raven, by comparing him to Guy, and with Lucius, by comparing her him to Erk.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Loki Laufeyson]

5.5/10 because she's better than Eliwood.

Pahahahahah yeah..ummm. Nyet. Bow lock is never awesome.

Alright Louise. Shes this sexy lady that married Pent and junk. Shes a Sniper and that....poor Louise. I never liked Snipers. Why? Bow lock. D: This chick isnt bad though for her class. Its not like one is gonna go using Wil or Rebecca (snigger snort).

Pros:

Total babe.

Comes with White Gem.

Insta A support with Pent.

an A bow rank. (niiice.)

Decent stats.

Cons:

Bow lock.

Comes a little late.

Low HP.

5/10. Bow lock hurts. Bad. :( Biased rating 7/10 because i love her character. Shes so pretty and adorable. I hate her class but man is she so hnnngh sweet.

[General Horace]

6/10. She's pretty much (imo) inferior to the other two archers from her point of joining if you trained them. She loses by like 4 STR to 20/1 Wil and ~2.5 STR to 20/1 Rebecca at base, and both Beccy and Wil have enough SPD to double just about every normal enemy past promotion; she loses to 20/1 Rath by ~4.5 STR, but I seperate him because he's less likely to be promoted at this time (with equal effort exerted as Wil or Rebecca). However, she has the whole "pick up and go" and "A support w/ Pent WHAT" thing, so that bumps her back to around their scores.

20/1 Rath (20/1 Wil has very similar durabilities; Wil has more DEF, Rath has more HP/RES) has 2 DEF/10 HP over base Louise, and only loses RES by 4. 20/1 Rebecca roughly ties her durability. What do you mean by this?

EDIT: Before you go on about how I mentioned Wil again, I am comparing Louise to all similar characters to put her in context. I did a similar thing with Raven, by comparing him to Guy, and with Lucius, by comparing her him to Erk.

Louise gets +3 defence and +7 avo with her Pent support, and there really isn't any reason why she shouldn't be in range if they're both deployed, as it makes Pent a helluva lot better as well. So Louise has 1.2 defence on a 20/1 Wil, along with 16 avoid, which is pretty significant.

[Thor Odinson]

Pahahahahah yeah..ummm. Nyet. Bow lock is never awesome.

But can Eliwood give Pent 3 defense by existing and not suck at everything ever

I'm not implying that bowlock is good in any way

I'm implying that Eliwood's a fucking piece of shit so shitty even bowlock is better than him

To be fair I am VERY pissed at Eliwood for sucking so badly in my last run that I was literally unable to get him to level 15 to get Geitz no matter how much I tried slowing down for him. And then I'm stuck hoping Wallace doesn't off himself accidentally.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Rewjeo]

Also they're snipers so their durability isn't really what I would be looking at to decide which one to use...

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Louise gets +3 defence and +7 avo with her Pent support, and there really isn't any reason why she shouldn't be in range if they're both deployed, as it makes Pent a helluva lot better as well. So Louise has 1.2 defence on a 20/1 Wil, along with 16 avoid, which is pretty significant.

Alright, fair enough. I'm not sure you want them to be chained together all the time for the entirety of the rest of the game, but her durability does improve. However, 20/1 Wil has 9 HP on her, meaning he arguably ties her (or, depending on the enemy, beats or loses to her slightly) with her support boosted durability. 20/1 Rath comes up with similar results. 20/1 Rebecca loses, I would say.

Of course, I'm assuming none of the three even get C support through the game up to this point, although that's a pretty likely scenario anyways unless you take steps to make it happen.

EDIT: Either way, the whole "Wil/Rath/Rebecca never come close to her in terms of durability" is wrong either way, since we're saying she ties Wil/Rath or very slightly exceeds them with support bonuses (which may not ALWAYS be up because you may want Louise and Pent to be in two different places) and loses to them without it. We're also not taking into account superior HP growths for both Rath and Wil (also, Wil has equal SPD growth as Louise and better LUK growth, so her avoid advantage with supports will lessen ever so slightly over time) and an equal DEF growth for Wil.

And durability actually matters somewhat for archers; if you've ever used Rebecca in HHM, you know what I mean here. However, by this point in the game, small durability leads/losses aren't actually very important, if at all. Most of the cases where having bad durability as a bow user screws you a bit come before Louise ever enters the picture (*cough* 17, Genesis, and 19xx *cough*).

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[eclipse]

I still haven't forgiven Cog of Destiny, and that's what decided who's the bow person on my team.

[Shadow Mir]

@ KoT: Louise actually has decent Res, which Rebecca, Wil and Rath aren't coming close to, like, ever. And considering that HHM CoD is mostly magic based...

[Balcerzak]

7/10. Most of this has already been alluded to, but Louise is the Sniper of choice in efficient FE7, (if you're using any that is). She's RNG-proof, and doesn't have to suffer through that period of suck and shitty base stats that the other archers do. Her strength is a little low, but she comes with A ranks in bows, so she can easily just use whatever weaponry is needed for the occasion. Plus, she makes Pent better simply by being deployed.

Re: Louise's durability. Will needs to be 20/19 to match her base Res, and Rebecca needs to be 20/12. This means her staff avoid is leagues better than any other sniper you'll be fielding. Ever. It also makes her an excellent mage killer, as Flux shamans in Cog sport something like 19 attack, meaning they would exactly 4HKO her at base IF she wasn't near Pent (unlikely), and exactly 7HKO her assuming her +3 defensive support. Even with an HP lead, Wil needs to be roughly 20/7 to be above a 4HKO, 20/18 to be above a 7HKO. Rebecca is much like Wil, needing roughly 20/7 for the 4HKO and 20/17 for the 7HKO. And Shamans are roughly equal to Thunder Mages, as far as unpromoted magic users. Pit her against Shine monks for a lol neverHKO (with Pent, 28HKO without).

Is this me cherry-picking for her best showing? Perhaps. Cog is probably Louise's best map. But it's not like magic-wielding enemies are in short supply, or that you can't find a use for Silver Bow chip in other chapters as well. Personally though, she will always have a spot along with the pegasus sisters in my playthroughs if only for this niche alone.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

@ KoT: Louise actually has decent Res, which Rebecca, Wil and Rath aren't coming close to, like, ever. And considering that HHM CoD is mostly magic based...

It's not even that much of a lead. And her HP is way lower -- it only comes out to better off when you think of staff hit rates. Or heal staff usage, I guess, over long term, since high HP/low DEF uses more healing over time with the same HKO status.

I mean, they tend to come out about the same in the wash.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Wen Yang]

For her stats, she gets a 5/10. This is because it is unlikely that anyone would bother doing crap with Wil or Rebecca in efficiency runs, and Geitz is unlikely to exist either, making her the best default archer.

Her auto-A with Pent nets her an extra point.

An being SMOKING HOT nets her another extra point from me.

Final Verdict: 7/10

[Shadow Mir]

It's not even that much of a lead. And her HP is way lower -- it only comes out to better off when you think of staff hit rates. Or heal staff usage, I guess, over long term, since high HP/low DEF uses more healing over time with the same HKO status.

I mean, they tend to come out about the same in the wash.

Seems that not only did you miss the point, you also missed what Balcerzak said regarding Louise's durability.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Seems that not only did you miss the point, you also missed what Balcerzak said regarding Louise's durability.

You're right, I only had time to (very briefly) glance through that post at that time. My apologies; it was stupid of me. I misread what Bal said.

Although I stock up on pure water for a reason; mainly, I'd imagine that would shoot Wil's and Rath's RKOs way up. It puts Louise in tink country (I think; 12+7 = 19 RES) versus the 19 ATK mages at max power, and Wil and Rath in...*looks up* 10HKO range at 20/1 (37 health; 4 damage a hit). Obviously, the effect decays over time, although I think you can safely apply it to the sniper of your choice on turn 1 without much loss offensively.

(Don't get me wrong; there's reasons why I say her A support buffs her score up; I just disagree on the "way higher durability" part.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Lord Raven]

It's not even that much of a lead. And her HP is way lower -- it only comes out to better off when you think of staff hit rates. Or heal staff usage, I guess, over long term, since high HP/low DEF uses more healing over time with the same HKO status.

I mean, they tend to come out about the same in the wash.

Ok so I'm pulling the averages that aren't based on statistics to do this (well, they are based on statistics, and they are both correct with their own justifications) but let's compare 10/4 stats.

Character   HP    Str   Skl   Spd   Lck   Def   Res    Supports Ranks
Louise      28     12    14    17    16     9    12    A PENT   A BOW
Rath        33.2   13    12.6  12.5   6.2  11.4   6    lol      A BOW, E SWORD
Rebecca     28.2   11.8  12    14.2  10     6.8   6.6  lol      not A, thats for sure
Wil         30.75  11.5  11.5  11.6  10.6   9.8   7.25 lol      not A also

Let me point out the basics: only Rath is reaching 10/4 if at all. The other two require a ton of time to even make them remotely close.

Anyways, lol

Any other playthrough isn't very efficient and a casual playthrough will look at Wil and Rebecca as "i still need a ton of resources for this to work, and Louise does whatever I need her to do anyway." There's not much of a contest here.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Let me point out the basics: only Rath is reaching 10/4 if at all. The other two require a ton of time to even make them remotely close.

Anyways, lol

Any other playthrough isn't very efficient and a casual playthrough will look at Wil and Rebecca as "i still need a ton of resources for this to work, and Louise does whatever I need her to do anyway." There's not much of a contest here.

10/4 is a bit low unless you're talking pure efficiency. Obviously which level you assume depends on what perspective you grade the units on; my assumption of level for your average unit in an S-rank run is around 20/1 by Vaida's chapter, or very close to that (since that tends to be AROUND what units hit here). S-rank isn't casual, but rather focuses on different criteria while being more lenient on turn counts.

When I compare a prepromote to growth units, I assume that such growth units have been trained to a REASONABLE level by that point of the game and then compare the prepromo's bases to the average stats of that growth unit; this doesn't take into account whether you WANT to raise the growth unit personally. I did it with Isadora by comparing to Kent or Sainadin and with Geitz by comparing to Bartre (or Wil, since Geitz really does a great job at replacing even a trained Wil and doing it better).

If we assume efficiency or a untrained growth unit, then obviously all prepromotes look way better in comparison.

P.S.: I just want to clarify my rating. I compare Louise to your trained units and say she's slightly worse than them stat-wise IF you trained one of them. But then I say that you don't have to go through the painful process to train her AND she comes with A ranking. I'm not saying that she's not a good prepromo.

[xblade]

lame stats good for about 2 levels. the only good thing is that she starts with a silver bow 4.5/10

[dondon151]

When I compare a prepromote to growth units, I assume that such growth units have been trained to a REASONABLE level by that point of the game and then compare the prepromo's bases to the average stats of that growth unit; this doesn't take into account whether you WANT to raise the growth unit personally.

i hope you realize that "reasonable" is subjective

which is also why everyone here takes you about as seriously as sane people do with ron paul

[Junkhead]

Wow...Louise's attractiveness is actually helping her.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Wow...Louise's attractiveness is actually helping her.

I'm pretty sure Hawkeye (16 in--CON) had a similar boost from the women here. It's kind of a silly way to judge a unit, and I think most people just SAY they include it instead of really factoring it in their opinions.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Refa]

Louise: 6 points for making Wil and Rebecca obselete, and 1 point for making Wil and Rebecca obselete.

7/10